Broad road.......to hell !

[twinc]

we must tell or be told that most Christians have been or are on this broad road for non repented or seemingly non repentable unforgiveable sin of blasphemy against the H/S in claiming inspiration, guidance and indwelling by the H/S producing fruits of division, divergence, differences, disputes, confusion, chaos and much worse and attributing this to the H/S -twinc

 

[lforrest]

we must tell or be told that most Christians have been or are on this broad road for non repented or seemingly non repentable unforgiveable sin of blasphemy against the H/S in claiming inspiration, guidance and indwelling by the H/S producing fruits of division, divergence, differences, disputes, confusion, chaos and much worse and attributing this to the H/S -twinc

Please expound upon the claims you have made. You have already posted about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, but these need clarification.

Who exactly is claiming inspiration by the Holy Spirit?

How are people claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit that you find disagreeable? What do you believe to be appropriate means of God Influencing people if he does so in any way?

Do you not believe the Holy Spirit dwells inside believers? What of our bodies being temples of the Holy Spirit?

Are division, divergence, and differences ever acceptable or even desired? To what extent should people go to keep the peace by overlooking error? Jesus caused division was he wrong to do so?

About confusion, who is confused about what? You refer to doctrine that varies across the denominations? Most Christians think their own denomination has it right, so they give the air of confidence.

Chaos, are you just ranting? Actually God works very well to bring desired results out of chaotic situations. He is not like humans who need to organize a system perfectly to get their desired result.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
The road to hell needs to be broad in order to handle all the traffic on it.

According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all
matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls
haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

● Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching,
and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there
few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait
gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

● Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But
small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it.

● Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but
indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to,
only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with
me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Apr 25, 2017 @ 10:09 am New
York Time, the resident population in the United States was approximately
324,929,327 with a death rate of approximately one every 11 seconds;
which translates to an average of 7,855 American deaths of all ages, races,
and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths
are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 5,710 of
the current daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum
percentage to 51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,912 American adults
transferring to perdition every day: which translates to roughly 121 per
hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact
percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think:
by the time CBS completes its half hour evening news report, a bare-bones
minimum of 60 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the
netherworld.

Using the ratio of 2,912 condemned souls per 324,929,327 population:
computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently
estimated global population of 7,386,667,667 people, would suggest
something like 66,199 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld
every 24 hours; which translates to approximately 2,758 souls every sixty
minutes on the clock.

That rate would fill the 51,800 seats of the new Yankee Stadium to capacity
in roughly 18 hours and 47 minutes. In other words: if the world's daily
number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this
morning, then by 00:47 am tomorrow, the stadium would be full to capacity.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death
certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on
those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to
12.2% higher.

Traditional Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for
business 24/7/365 nonstop and indifferent to global warming, Wall Street
crashes, massive layoffs, outsourcing, high school shootings, terrorism,
tsunamis, earthquakes, nuclear meltdowns, air, water, and soil pollution,
freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, the price of oil, student
debt, GMO, trade deficits, protests, Federal debt, factory recalls,
overpopulation, desertification, genocides, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain,
road rage, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, LGBT marriage, Obamacare,
blood diamonds, fracking, twerking, and/or President Trump's twitters.

If traditional Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is
correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in
an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers
passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to
Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A,
KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and
restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson vends its meats. The
slaughtering and the butchering never stop.

/

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[Webers_Home]

-
It's commonly believed that heaven is sort of like the peak of a high
mountain. All around the periphery of the mountain are numerous roads all
leading to the top, i.e. no matter which road you take; the destination is the
same.

But according to traditional Christianity; there aren't many roads to the top:
there's only one; all the rest are dead ends, loops, and cul-de-sacs. If
traditional Christianity is right; then an awful lot of people are facing a very
unpleasant future. For example, according to my sources, there are
approximately:

50 thousand Scientologists
15 million Mormons
8.2 million Jehovah's Witnesses
7.8 million Baha'i
515.9 million Buddhists
451.3 million Chinese Folk Religionists
8.4 million Confucianists
258.5 million Ethnic Religionists
974.6 million Hindus
5.6 million Jains
1.7 billion Muslims
14.1 million Jews
64.2 million New Religionists
2.8 million Shintoists
24.9 million Sikhs
14.2 million Spiritists
8.7 million Taoists
640 million Non Religious
138.8 million Atheists

The grand total of just those categories is 4,852,950,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if traditional Christianity is the
truth; then at the least 66% of the earth's currently estimated population of
7.388 billion people are on a road to hell; and no doubt some of those are
people we know: our friends, our relatives, and our associates.

NOTE: Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are Christians, yes, but not in the
traditional sense.

Joseph Smith's movement is a cult; in other words: there's some Christianity
in Mormonism, but Christianity comprises only a portion of Mormonism. The
rest of it is extreme, to say the least.

Neither do Jehovah's Witnesses qualify as Christians in the traditional sense.
Charles Taze Russell's movement is also a cult. There's some Christianity in
the Watchtower Society's doctrines, but Christianity comprises only a portion
of Russell's doctrines; and his slant on it is very peculiar.

/

 

[bbyrd009]

um, you are kidding, right? Tongue in cheek? God, i sure hope so.

 

[bbyrd009]

you are aware that grown up believers agree that they cannot even demonstrate a hell such as this currently even exists, if it ever will, right? PhDs in Churchianity, and everything. You cannot show me hell in Scripture, unless Tartarus. You are digging a pit for others to fall into, WH. If you really are serious, you might explore "Jesus death cults," mmmkay, and compare your beliefs for similarities, bro. Yikes.

 

[bbyrd009]

lemme guess--you're a pastor!


lol

 

[Webers_Home]

-

you are kidding, right?

Not kidding.

you are aware that grown up believers agree that they cannot even
demonstrate a hell such as this currently even exists, if it ever will, right?
PhDs in Churchianity, and everything. You cannot show me hell in Scripture,
unless Tartarus.

I think that with enough imagination, most things in the Bible can be
reduced to either a myth, a metaphor, or a misunderstanding.

lemme guess--you're a pastor!

Retired welder.

/

 

[bbyrd009]

-

Not kidding.



I think that with enough imagination, most things in the Bible can be
reduced to either a myth, a metaphor, or a misunderstanding.



Retired welder.

/

ok well let's get started then, i'd start with the reference in Rev, the one that is not "Gehenna," being as how that's the one all the PhDs over @ stackexchange wrangle over all day. Gehenna is a metaphor anyway, so hell would be a double metaphor, but we'll get to that later i guess.

 

[mjrhealth]

My Friend Pia's daugter and a friend of her daughter had a vision at teh very same time. Best as I can describe it, They where on a platform, on one side was a narrow escalator going up to heaven and some very wide stairs going down on teh other. Her daughter ran and jumped on teh escalator to go up, her friend started going down teh stairs, she only got as far as teh second one because she could hears some very not so nice screaming etc, so turned around and went back up. You would be surpried as to how many have choosen teh wide path because its the easiest and least trouble.

 

[bbyrd009]

ha that is a good way to put it, prolly, as we naturally seek the path of least resistance, it is built into our natures. Let a reader understand. I am not trying to suggest that there is not some recompense in the afterlife that "hell" might be a decent metaphor of, because i do not know. But what i can suggest is that God desires that heaven come to earth, while we become obsessed with where we will spend "eternity," and there are many clues, many passages, that might suggest that that perspective will be completely moot to one when it should be becoming relevant, after one dies.

i bet i could quote a verse from every Book of the Bible that suggests that that perspective is hooey, and amounts to the fears of a child that the parent completely ignores because they know they are baseless, beginning with "Understand I AM" and running through "No one knows where they go when they die," "He who seeks to save his soul will lose it," on and on; which i understand are interpreted differently, for you, but imo you would be best served to understand that those people will not be standing behind you at judgement, or standing up for you or whatever--they will have taken your money and ran, so to speak. "Well, but my pastor told me..." will not be a valid excuse.

The dead Samuel directly indicates to Saul that this perspective is in error, through the Witch of Endor; but note that you have never heard a sermon on this, nor any of the other few verses i quoted up there, have you? Unless it was extra-congregational for you, youtube or whatever. Reflect upon this, if you will. You can only hear these things discussed, and you likely first heard of them via someone easily considered a heretic. If anyone reading this has ever heard a sermon in congregation on Nehushtan from someone who has signed a Contract for Jesus i'll eat my hat.

So understand (reader), that many who learn from the same diaper that provided Salvation for Money a scant 500 years ago might just now be manipulating you on a slightly different trajectory while playing to the same fears. 500 years ago, in our world at least, you had to be religious; it was virtually a legal requirement, and undeniably a societal one. But God is not religious, and the Book is chock-full of nothing so much as condemnation of the religious, who honor icons and observe by rote, and seek to dictate one's spirituality for personal aggrandizement and gain.

And Protestants are cut from this same cloth, there is no difference, none at all. These may easily be compared with the other divisions we are encouraged to embrace, Rep/Dem, Con/Lib, White/Black, Cap/Com, pick a side and pray. Ok WH rant over, you can certainly believe whatever you like awright, you just kinda threw me there, i honestly thought you were being facetious to make a point. I'll let you get back to crying your croc tears for all of us who are not as enlightened as the four of you are, ok, but you might reflect upon how that sounds from the outside lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

Traditional Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for
business 24/7/365

there is no way in hell that anyone reading this can demonstrate this pov from Scripture, is the general point i'm trying to get across here, k. Finer minds have tried. It is not true. Now Gehenna is not going anywhere, that is true enough. Find the differences maybe, because they are night and day.

 

[bbyrd009]

one must also accept the fairy tale of heaven, if they accept this Christian "hell" that they cannot even find in the Book, that disappears just like "Easter" does when one goes to look for it, yes? If you believe this, then answer for yourself what might happen to someone who was to sin in this heaven? Of course your answer is that no one sins in heaven, right? But that is evading the question, see, and not answering it.

Reflect upon the conclusion you are forced into, that being that "no one CAN sin in heaven, it is not possible."

Am i correct there? Someone help me out here, did i state that pretty much correctly?

 

[bbyrd009]

Please expound upon the claims you have made. You have already posted about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, but these need clarification.

Who exactly is claiming inspiration by the Holy Spirit?

How are people claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit that you find disagreeable? What do you believe to be appropriate means of God Influencing people if he does so in any way?

Do you not believe the Holy Spirit dwells inside believers? What of our bodies being temples of the Holy Spirit?

Are division, divergence, and differences ever acceptable or even desired? To what extent should people go to keep the peace by overlooking error? Jesus caused division was he wrong to do so?

About confusion, who is confused about what? You refer to doctrine that varies across the denominations? Most Christians think their own denomination has it right, so they give the air of confidence.

Chaos, are you just ranting? Actually God works very well to bring desired results out of chaotic situations. He is not like humans who need to organize a system perfectly to get their desired result.

seems like an insightful answer to the OP, at least imo. while it has to be admitted that twinc also made a good point. I don't know if those are relatable to HS blasphemy or not, i guess prolly so?

we must tell or be told that most Christians have been or are on this broad road for non repented or seemingly non repentable unforgiveable sin of blasphemy against the H/S in claiming inspiration, guidance and indwelling by the H/S producing fruits of division, divergence, differences, disputes, confusion, chaos and much worse and attributing this to the H/S -twinc

"you think I came to bring peace, but i bring a sword" so i get you, but how do you allow for this to also be true? I'm not sure if the answer lies in "hey they can do whatever they want," or what? If you are your brother's keeper, iforrest, how do you respond to this then iow.

 

[bbyrd009]

i think what will come out here is "Who is the judge, for anyone else? Please raise your hand" lol.

 

[lforrest]

seems like an insightful answer to the OP, at least imo. while it has to be admitted that twinc also made a good point. I don't know if those are relatable to HS blasphemy or not, i guess prolly so?


"you think I came to bring peace, but i bring a sword" so i get you, but how do you allow for this to also be true? I'm not sure if the answer lies in "hey they can do whatever they want," or what? If you are your brother's keeper, iforrest, how do you respond to this then iow.

When Jesus said he came to bring a sword, I think of the division Jesus brings. He is the light of the world, and the light has no fellowship with darkness. The Word carves from the world an inheritance for himself. Then the world becomes hostile to us as we are joined with Jesus.

The world schemes in darkness with violence and lies, Just like their father the devil. But God thwarts those schemes for his Glory, and for the good in the long term.

That is my take on it.

 

[bbyrd009]

nice. Imo "the light has no fellowship with darkness" might be contrasted with "be in the world..." meaning there is obviously still quite a bit of tension there, the way we typically interpret the first one, and i think it is a trap to be led into judgement if that is what one desires but that does not mean that one should not judge for themselves, either.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

what might happen to someone who was to sin in this heaven?

● Rom 8:34 . . Who is he that condemns? Shall Christ Jesus, who died? More
than that, who was raised to life and is at the right hand of God interceding
for us?

● 1John 2:1-2 . . If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus
Christ the righteous:

● 1John 1:9 . . If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

/

 

[bbyrd009]

-

● Rom 8:34 . . Who is he that condemns? Shall Christ Jesus, who died? More
than that, who was raised to life and is at the right hand of God interceding
for us?

● 1John 2:1-2 . . If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus
Christ the righteous:

● 1John 1:9 . . If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

/

well i agree, but how does this fit with the broadly accepted model of heaven after physical death, do you think?