Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider

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Truth7t7

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This came from Paul, go read it. 1 Cor. 15, 2 Thess. 2:3 is the Departure of the Church also. So, do you really mean there is no Church Age or did that slip in there by mistake, because that is a non defensible POV. We are in the Church Age, the 7 Feasts tell of a coming Church Age, but when I explain it you guys refuse to answer the points, WHY? Isaiah says God will call a people he did not know. Paul says when the "Time of the Gentiles" comes full, only then will Israel's blindness be lifted. All one has to do is read Romans chapters 9-11 and it is evident Paul is speaking about God taking the Mantle away from Israel and giving it to the Gentiles, then he says when THIS TIME (Time of the Gentiles comes full), only then will Israel be grafted back in and repent.

The Time of the Gentiles has zero to do with the Anti-Christ conquering Jerusalem, that is wrong think, it is about God CHOOSING the YOUNGER over the ELEDER, that is why Paul mentions Jacob being chosen over Esau in chapter 9, why he references the Potter being the master of the vessels he creates etc. The Time of the Gentiles is about the Church Age Gospel being taken unto the whole world . Here is where you get off-tracked brother, you do not understand that if Israel had repented Jesus would have saved them from Rome in 70 AD and ushered in the Kingdom Age, but they did not, so God turned to the Gentiles to take the Gospel unto the whole world instead and put off the 70th week. Thus when the "Time of the Gentiles" is fulfilled, the 70th week then comes, or THE END as Jesus called it. This refers to the Church Age Gentiles. So, why would Jesus ever preach on a coming Rapture when the Gentiles were never supposed to take Israel's place as taking the Gospel unto the whole world? This is why Jesus said he came only to the Lost Sheep of Israel, just like the Two-witnesses come ONLY to get Israel to repent in Revelation 11:1-3 via the Measuring of the Temple, Altar and ONLY THOSE that worship therein. So, you are looking for something that is only hinted at until Paul was given the chore of taking the Gospel unto the Gentiles. It has to be dug out of the bible, one also has to understand how the TIMING TELLS mandate a Pre Trib Rapture. It is not my fault some people can not see it brother, it is their fault. These are brain locks via tunnel vision. Satan lied to Peter, he never stops lying brother. We see the Pre Trib Raptured Church in heaven Rev. 4, 5 and 7 BEFORE the Seals are ever opened and in Rev. 19 before the even get married unto the Lamb and with Jesus as he returns to Armageddon. And no, no one goes to Heaven before the Pre Trib Rapture, Paul says this in 1 Cor. 15:42-52 and Daniel is told this in Dan. 12:1-2. So, they can only be the Pre Trib Raptured Saints.

The John Darby stuff tbh is funny and annoying also. It reminds me of modern day libs trying to use red herrings to win arguments they are in error on. We can prove that is wrong via other early writings AND via Paul's writings. Its a non sequitur with me tbh. Now if I explain the 7 Feast's will you avoid it? Why not answer these things and learn, instead of dodging them, I have posted it on here multiple tines and all I get are dodges. These things have to be dug out, Jesus never came unto the Gentiles, so we can only get glimpses of the Church Age and Rapture via Prophecy TIMING TELLS in the Old Testament, and via Jesus, Paul explained these things in Letters to his flocks, sadly we only get half of these correspondence letters, not the flocks questions, and Paul had told his flock things thus at times he only gives hints like you remember what I told you, and does not go into details, that is why I say his letters are not like a Prophets "Thus Saith the Lord" writings. 2 Thess. 2 is the Rapture or DEPARTURE of the Church, not a falling away (DEPARTURE) from the Faith which is NEVER MENTIONED one time in the whole chapter, but a Gathering unto Jesus is mentioned, so the only DEPARTURE being spoken about in the chapter is the Church DEPARTING its standing on this earth. Its not even debatable if one simply reads the passage.


As I explained in my other post just above, this is just not the case. And there are 10-12 signs, not 7. Rev. 6 has nothing to do with Matt. 24:1-14, as a matter of fact Rev. 6 is just Jesus Prophesying anyway, the actual events start in Rev. 8. There are 7 Judgment Trumps, not 21. The Seals DO NOTHING, they are Jesus Prophesying as he opened a Sealed Scroll. The 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe which come from the 7th Trump, so ALL JUDGMENTS come forth from 7 Trumps. Jesus' return is not really a sign of his coming, he is just coming. Would you spot me on the corner of Times Square in NYC and says Ron is coming to New York, I saw him, that a sign? No, I would just be in New York. I understand some say there is a sign of him in the air, but I think its wrong think, the 10-12 signs are giving us a clue to when all of these things will happen, Jesus returning is him coming, nit a sign, IMHO. I understand the TIMING TELLS in Matt. 24.
No need to write a Novel, keep it short
 

Ronald D Milam

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The placing of the "abomination of desolation" DOES happen in the 'middle' of the symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27. There is NO OTHER WAY TO READ THAT SCRIPTURE.
Please explain unto me how the 1290 is in the exact middle of the Week?

We know there is a 7 Year Agreement (Israel joins the E.U.) in which the Anti-Christ forces some concessions out of Israel as in GIVE UP YOUR NUKES (after the Gog Magog war) and we will be your protector like the USA protects Hawaii etc. etc. In so doing the Anti-Christ will have political sway over leaders in Israel, as the E.U. tries to do in all of the European member nations nations now. They meddle with Hungary's border polices etc. etc. The E.U. will mandate Israel give up ger nukes, else how will they ever be conquered? But then after 1230 days, which is 1290 days from the time Jesus shows up (TO END ALL OF THESE WONDERS....or the Anti-Christs rule over Israel), thus as we can see by reading Dan. 12:11-12 the 1290 can not be in the exact middle of the week.

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away(Jesus Worship by Jews who REPENT), and the abomination that maketh desolate set up (The Jewish False Prophet/High Priest places an IMAGE of the E.U. President up in the Temple of God,) there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days(1290 days, thus this CAN NOT be in the exact Middle of the week).12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The midst is not the middle. Jesus tells us what happens in the exact middle of the week in verse 7, The Anti-Christ (as shown in Dan. 11:36-45) conquers Israel (holy peoples) and rules over them for 1260 days, then ALL THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45) ENDS. If the 1260 is the EXACT MIDDLE of the week, how can the 1290 also be the EXACT MIDDLE of the week? Answer, it can not be and it is not, you have to go with either it is 30 days before the 1260 or 30 days after the 1260 or its in the 1000 year reign which makes no sense at all and DESTROYS the middle of the week argument altogether. So, lets play pretend, lets say God allows the Anti-Christ to conquer Israel, rule over them for 30 days, then says WOOOO, Hey guys here is a SIGN that you need to flee Judea, that makes no sense at all. Now let us say that God sends Israel the coming Two-witnesses 75 days (1335) before the 1260 events to get Israel to repent, and thus at the 1290, which is 30 days before the Anti-Christ conquers Israel, He gives them a SIGN that they need to flee Judea, and God does so 30 days before Israel gets conquered, only the second point I made makes any sense at all, the 1290 is not nor can it be in the EXACT MIDDLE of the 70th week. The number 1290 will never, ever, ever fit in the middle of the week, only the 1260 does. You, like many others (most people really) just do not understand what the 1290 and 1335 are, God blessed me with this because I seek these deep things out like a dog on a bone, I never allow contradictions like "the 1290 is the MIDDLE of 2520 days to stand", it can not be the middle of the week brother, it is not possible. This is why I get the answers. Great scientists like Einstein ask questions, they do not accept pat answers, they do accept things as de facto correct.

I just defeated any argument that the 1290 can be in the middle of the week. I have even done studies that show the word used for midst is just that, the midst, not the exact middle, but the very NUMBER the 1290 tells us it can not be in the exact middle of 2520 days.
 
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Ronald D Milam

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agree! Those who miss the Pre-TB rapture will be surprised. Surprised that it didn’t exist and will be caught unprepared for what comes which requires the patience of the saints.

All you can do is quip I see, you never challenge my points because you cant. These quips are an admission of defeat. I am glad to see you can't refute my points, that = DEFEAT in any debate.

When does “oros” identify as an asteroid?
If a literal mountain (oros) fell into a literal sea, it would kill people. Ships are destroyed, a third of the sea life dies and their blood is in the sea. Yet no man dies….how odd!
When the very next word says the Mountain (oros) is BURNING (KAIO). Jesus was given the book of Revelation by God the Father, who then showed it unto John his servant via visions and words from Angels. So, John saw a huge rock like 3 football fields wide (Mountain) which was coming in on fire. How hard is it for us to understand that huge Asteroid's come in hot and ablaze. This is a joke right?

Many men die, the Asteroid will burn a 1/3 of the trees, which I see as North and South America. And they will kill 1/3 of the men as seen in Trump #6, there were no chapter breaks per se. You can count Rev, 8, 9 and 16 as one continuous event over 42 months. So, its not odd if you understand the book of Revelation at all. John saw a Mountain on fire and you can't understand that is an Asteroid, now that is odd. The Fire hits first off of an incoming asteroid, then after the impact (Trump #2) we gen the FALLOUT (Trump #3) and the darkness (Trump #4).
What?
Did you even notice Christ wearing a crown? It symbolizes his majesty. This is the moment of his manifestation when the Kingdom is his and he begins to reign; aka the 7th Trumpet. You’d know that based upon the previous verses detailing: Fear God, Babylon Falls followed by the mark. In perspective, it shows a pattern of events within the Trumpets. Pre-TB flashback? Come on. Let’s not make things up as we go.

having on his head a golden crown; as an ensign of royal majesty, showing that his kingdom was now come, the time for him to reign
Jesus is God the Redeemer, of course he has a crown, that has nothing to do with Rev. 14:14 being a flashback to the Pre Trib Rapture. You one trick pony guys can't see anything because of your error on the Pre Trib Rapture, it shapes and molds all of your thinking, and bends you senses off-kilter where you can't seen to grasp any of the other Eschatology correct either.

The Pre Trib Rapture is so easy, only those who fail to listen to the spirit for answers never see it. When a man gets to a point where other men's ideas override God's grand plans he is in trouble as per ever understanding Eschatology, he can still gain heaven, but he will not inherit a large inheritance in heaven.

It is what it is, come visit me in my mansion in Heaven brother. (SMILE).
 
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Ronald D Milam

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No sir. It is the second harvest which occurs at the 6th seal before the wrath of God. Gods people are not appointed to wrath.
You are in error. Even when something proves a Pre Trib Rapture you can't jump on board if it goes against your ideas. But alas God doesn't care about our ideas at all.

Nothing in those verses have to do with the pretrib rapture. Jesus will be visible in the clouds in the rapture of Revelation 14 which happens at the 6th seal, which happens with the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24
The Seals DO NOTHING.

I have no idea whatsoever why you can't see this. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal.
IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE Tribulation starts at the 1260 via an Asteroid the Sun and Moon goes dark...... THEN Jesus shows up. Just like Zech. 14:1-2 is Jerusalem getting sacked and THEN.....In verse 3 we see a 3.5 year jump with Jesus landing on Mt. Zion.

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No need to write a Novel, keep it short
Just another excuse to dodge the facts.
 

The Light

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You are in error. Even when something proves a Pre Trib Rapture you can't jump on board if it goes against your ideas. But alas God doesn't care about our ideas at all.
I find it odd that you would say God doesn't care about our ideas. You are the one coming up with all the ideas. I'm just readying what the Word says and accepting what it says. I accept the fact that the seals line perfectly with what Jesus says in Matthew 24. The four horsemen of the Apocalypse the first four seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24. How can you not see that? The fifth seal lines up perfectly with the Great tribulation in Matthew 24. Then the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. It boggles my mind how you can't see this.

Then you tell me that Rev 14 is the pretribulation rapture, and it has nothing to do with the pretribulation rapture. The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14, the harvest, happens at the 6th seal. It is the twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman that is harvested from the earth. THE WORD TELLS US SPECIFIACLLY THAT IT IS THE JEWS BEING HARVESTED. How do you not see this? Do I need to quote chapter and verse for you so you can see it is Jews being harvested???????????
The Seals DO NOTHING.
John tells us in Revelation 6 about end times. Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 about end times. How do you not see they are telling us the EXACT same thing? The seals do nothing? The seals 1st 6 seals are the complete tribulation period AND the 7th seal is the wrath of God, and you say they are nothing.
 

The Light

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IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE Tribulation starts at the 1260 via an Asteroid the Sun and Moon goes dark...... THEN Jesus shows up. Just like Zech. 14:1-2 is Jerusalem getting sacked and THEN.....In verse 3 we see a 3.5 year jump with Jesus landing on Mt. Zion.
No. We can prove this is wrong easy enough. You say immediately after the tribulation starts the 1260 days. The Word of God says:

Daniel 12
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

It also says in Matthew 24 that we can determine that the daily sacrifice and abomination of desolation are started BEFORE the tribulation is over in the midst of the week.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)



21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.



29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

You need to clear your mind of everything that you have decided. You need to start over and read what the Word says. For instance, the 144, 000 are not the nation of Israel. They are the first fruits of the second harvest, just as the Word says. Stop making decisions on the what Word says, and just read what it says.
 

Ronald D Milam

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I find it odd that you would say God doesn't care about our ideas. You are the one coming up with all the ideas.
They are not my ideas, you just think they are because of "your ideas". Lets think about David, he was shown by Nathan how he was a Shepard with a huge flock who stole the small flock of another Shepard by Nathan the Prophet (who told David this even though many Prophets had been killed by Jewish leaders/kings).

Now, all of those other kings heard Prophets and rejected those ideas as from them not God. David did just the opposite, he knew that Nathans words were from God. Now, those kings who killed the prophets, they actually thought those men were liars, but they weren't. So, God does not care for "OUR IDEAS" means just that, He only cares for His own ideas, He loves a relationship with us, but if we are not hearing God clearly, then of course He takes no joy in that. Satan loves whispering untruths and half truths to even Christians, especially those not called unto Prophecy who try to dabble in it anyway, with "authority" they were never given. It is what it is. The difference is I have been calked unto Prophecy for 37 years. I actually understand it in full, the fact that you seeing still can't grasp it just shows me it is not your calling. When I show things to actual prophecy guys they get it right away. Our problem is hands are trying to be feet. Be what God called you to be.

I'm just readying what the Word says and accepting what it says.
As did the Pharisees, who were very learned men, but they still could not see Jesus, they had tunnel vision, or as Jesus put it Men's Traditions got in their way. You can read the word all you want brother, if you misinterpret the meanings then you will never see what the Prophecy means, and not being called unto prophesy means you should heed those who are. When you get to heaven, a light switch will go off, you will know everything in an instance, your first words should be Rev Man was 99.9 percent right on everything he told me.

accept the fact that the seals line perfectly with what Jesus says in Matthew 24. The four horsemen of the Apocalypse the first four seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24. How can you not see that? The fifth seal lines up perfectly with the Great tribulation in Matthew 24. Then the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. It boggles my mind how you can't see this.
And you would of course be WRONG, the END is the 70th week, Jesus says the END is later on, then in verse 14 Jesus tells when THE END (70th week) comes. After the Gospel has been preached unto all the world THEN and only then does the 70th week come. How can anyone miss the Birth Pangs analogy? Birth Pangs BIRTH the baby, thus the Birth Pangs BIRTH the 70th week end !!

The beginning of Sorrows is in the Church Age, we see all of that start THEN the Disciples are killed !! Psstt, all that came from some man long ago, and even though it does not match you guys have all went with it for ages now. Satan loves slipping in little untruths, he loves confusing the church, of course. He never stops working. The Seals are Jesus telling us what the Anti-Christs coming 42 month rule will bring in Seals 1-5 and what God's Wrath will bring in Seal #6, when the Trumpet Judgments finally start AFTER the 7th Seal is loosed. People not being able to understand that SEALS bind the Scroll leaves me aghast tbh, so you can understand a closet with 7 locks can not be opened until all 7 locks are taken off, yet you like others refuse to remove the wrong think of the Seals being Judgments because, well, "I have thought that for years, I can't change now". That is all it is, you know I am right. All of YOUR understandings would have to CHANGE, and God forbid we have to change our group think men's traditions !! The very thing God used to relay this message was well understood 2000 years ago, a king sent his urgent message under seal, no one could read that message until all three seals were broken, thus protecting the message, and for some reason you guys can't register this info as being a Scroll of Judgments to come, when Jesus finally opens the 7th Seal in Rev. 8, the Judgments will fall, it is like taking the 7th lock off a door, only then can it be opened. But you have too much time and effort involved in the Seals being Judgments. Psstt, I had 30 years involved in that "21 Judgment thing also". But alas, I hear the Lord's voice when He tells me you are "WRONG Ron". Hey, it is OK to be wrong, I love being wrong, that way I know I am being taught God's truths so I joy in being told I am wrong !! When you are told you are in error, guess what God then ALWAYS gives you the answer, He can not give the answers to those who refuse to hear His voice say these words, YOU ARE WRONG. Jesus comes at the 7th Vial, which ends the 3rd Woe, which starts with the 7th Trump.

Then you tell me that Rev 14 is the pretribulation rapture, and it has nothing to do with the pretribulation rapture. The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14, the harvest, happens at the 6th seal. It is the twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman that is harvested from the earth. THE WORD TELLS US SPECIFIACLLY THAT IT IS THE JEWS BEING HARVESTED. How do you not see this? Do I need to quote chapter and verse for you so you can see it is Jews being harvested???????????
No, it is the Harvest Chapter, Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are Parenthetical Citation chapters. So, if it is The Harvest Chapter (it is) and God gives us the Jews at the end and the Wicked Grapes at the end, then He can only show us the Pre Trib Rapture in a FLASH BACK. Of course you can't see this, that is on you. When you learn to be wrong, you will then hear God's full understandings. God can not teach those who are NEVER WRONG.

John tells us in Revelation 6 about end times. Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 about end times. How do you not see they are telling us the EXACT same thing? The seals do nothing? The seals 1st 6 seals are the complete tribulation period AND the 7th seal is the wrath of God, and you say they are nothing.
When you get to Heaven you will see it, until then I do not think you will ever get it, you value your understandings way too much. The Seals are Jesus prophesying what is about to come, this is a very simple concept. So, you understand Joel 2:31 can be Prophetic but for some reason you gave a mental block that just will not allow Jesus to be Prophesying in Heaven to the Raptured Church what will soon come in 30-75 days. It just can't be, even though it is. My point stands, God does not care about our ideas, nor if we can grasp His ideas, that is not going to change His fast and true facts. He cares about us, but He is the truth !!
 
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Ronald D Milam

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No. We can prove this is wrong easy enough. You say immediately after the tribulation starts the 1260 days. The Word of God says:
Let me do this in full one last time, you do not pay attention in full at times. You guys who allow single verses to sway you an inordinate amount never ever use the full bible like you should.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (This is the Anti-Christ who SACKS Israel/Jerusalem at the 1260)

{{{ We then see a 3.5 year JUMP with one word........THEN........THEN.........THEN the Lord (Jesus) shall go forth and fight those nations who defeated Israel. He lands on he Mt. of Olives. }}}

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

BUT.........you can't grasp the very same thing in Matt. 24:29-30 ABOVE, verse 2 happens in the exact Middle of the week THEN Jesus returns, BELOW:

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Satan is cast down to Earth at the 1260 middle of the week, read Rev. 12 and Dan. 12:1-2)

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven(AND THEN Jesus returns, just like in Zechariah 14:3): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So, in Zechariah 14:2 we see Israel sacked at the 1260 and THEN the Lord (Jesus) returns. In Matt. 24:29 we are told the exact same thing, IMMEDIATLY AFTER the Tribulation of those days start we see the Sun and Moon go Dark, we KNOW this event happens in the exact middle of the week by reading the bible !! And THEN..........THEN.............THEN Jesus returns. You take the Sun and Moon reference about IMMEDIATLY AFTER and Jump to the telling of Jesus Second Coming to mean IMMEDIATLY AFTER the troubles start, which is the middle of the week AS PROVED by the Sun and Moon going dark, which we know happens in the middle of the week go read Rev. 8 !! Good grief man. In both Zechariah 14:3 and in Matt. 24:30 we get a 3.5 year JUMP AHEAD. That is why not being called unto Prophesy places one at a disadvantage, you have to understand how it works brother. It boggles my mind that men actually think the reference to Jesus Return is IMMEDIATELY AFTER when that is only referring to the Sun and Moon going dark. Astonishing lack of comprehension on that which is very evident. We all know when the Sun and Moon goes dark. We also know when Satan is cast to earth. At the 1260.

You need to clear your mind of everything that you have decided. You need to start over and read what the Word says. For instance, the 144, 000 are not the nation of Israel. They are the first fruits of the second harvest, just as the Word says. Stop making decisions on the what Word says, and just read what it says.
I know more about Prophecy than anyone you will ever meet brother. It will all come to you when you get to Heaven. Until then I think your preconceived notions will keep you from seeing these things in full.

God Bless
 
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Truth7t7

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Let me do this in full one last time, you do not pay attention in full at times. You guys who allow single verses to sway you an inordinate amount never ever use the full bible like you should.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (This is the Anti-Christ who SACKS Israel/Jerusalem at the 1260)

{{{ We then see a 3.5 year JUMP with one word........THEN........THEN.........THEN the Lord (Jesus) shall go forth and fight those nations who defeated Israel. He lands on he Mt. of Olives. }}}

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

BUT.........you can't grasp the very same thing in Matt. 24 ABOVE, verse 2 happens in the exact Middle of the week THEN Jesus returns, BELOW,

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Satan is cast down to Earth at the 1260 middle of the week, read Rev. 12 and Dan. 12:1-2)

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven(AND THEN Jesus returns, just like in Zechariah 14:3): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So, in Zechariah 14:2 we see Israel sacked at the 1260 and THEN the Lord (Jesus) returns. In Matt. 24 we are told te exact same thing, IMMEDIATLY AFTER the Tribulation of those days start we see the Sun and Moon go Dark, we KNOW this event happens in the exact middle of the week by reading the bible !! And THEN..........THEN.............THEN Jesus returns. You take tge Sun and Moon reference about IMMEDIATLY AFTER and Jump the telling of Jesus Second Coming to mean IMMEDIATLY AFTER te troubles start, which is te middle of the week AS PROVED by the Sun and Moon going dark, which we knw is in the middle of tge week go read Rev. 8 !! Good grief man. In both Zechariah 14:3 and in Matt. 24:30 we get a 3.5 year JUMP AHEAD. That is why not being called unto Prophesy places one at a disadvantage, you have to understand how it works brother. It boggles my mind that men actually think the reference to Jesus Return is IMMEDIATELY AFTER when that is only referring to the Sun and Moon going dark. Astonishing lack of comprehension on that which is very evident. We all know when the Sun and Moon goes dark. We also know when Satan is cast to earth. At the 1260.


I know more about Prophecy than anyone you will ever meet brother. It will all come to you when you get to Heaven. Until then I think your preconceived notions will keep you from seeing these things in full.

God Bless
The scripture below is a recap of events that have been fulfilled, the man Child was Jesus Christ, the woman was Israel, Satan used King Herod trying to kill Jesus when he was born, Jesus ascended to the right hand of the throne of God, where he now sits

Satan was on earth for Jobs temptation, also Jesus Christ's temptation in the wilderness of 40 days and nights, your suggestions that Satan is cast out of heaven in the future is Big Smiles

Revelation 12:3-5KJV
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
 

Davy

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All of the Judgments come forth from the 7 Trumps. That is why Rev. 10 says the 7 Thunders sound time [as we know it] will be no more. Wy was it bitter and sweet? Because it brings billions of deaths, and because it brings forth Jesus' 1000 year reign which ushers in everlasting righteousness.
The seven thunders are to mark completeness at the voice of the "seventh angel" sounding. When do we hear thunder in nature? AFTER... the lightning. And the "day of the Lord" is when final judgment upon this present world earth age will occur, and that is the day of Christ's future coming when the 7th Vial, 6th Seal, and 7th Trumpet will happen, and not before. Many see all the vials of Rev.16 as God's wrath upon the beast, which they partially are, but the final 7th Vial is the actual cup of wrath on the last day that Jesus and the disciples pointed to that ends today's world.

So, Trumps 1-4 begin God's Wrath, we see then in Rev. 8:13 that an angel proclaims Woe, Woe, Woe, and says the sounding of the last three Trumps bring the Three Woes. do you get that? Trump #5 is therefore the first woe, Trump #6 is the 2nd Woe. Thus Trump #7 is the third woe, and we therefore understand the last woe is ALL 7 Vials in total. The 7 Vials COMPLETE God's Wrath. Rev. 9:20 states very clearly that those who have the Mark of the Beast are killed by the "Plagues of God". The Asteroid Impact kills many also, do you think the Asteroid Impact in Rev. 8 is not God's wrath? That makes no sense, once again brother you take one scripture and run with a bad phraseology. Rev. 15 says the Wrath of God is filled up or completed by the 7 Vials.
No, the last 3rd Woe signals the "day of the Lord" timing when Jesus returns and the resurrection happens, and the saints still alive on earth are "caught up" to them in the air. This is why God's two witnesses suddenly rise in that same hour. The previous vials happen during the 2nd Woe timing. The 2nd Woe timing is the time of "great tribulation" when the false-Messiah will be here. An asteroid is man's speculation. The star falling upon the waters making them bitter is symbolic for Satan's influence upon the peoples (waters of Rev.15) on the earth, their spiritual dispositions being made bitter. It is all in prep for the final Act, the "strong deception" when Satan arrives playing Jesus Christ and seeks to destroy all those who refuse to bow to him as God.

This is just not factual, once again this is bad eschatology passed down by men, many men at that, all thinking they can see the 70th week in there without thinking it through. The 6th Seal is Prophetic, it DOES NOTHING, its just like the Joel 2:31 Prophecy, it points to a FUTURE EVENT.
You are terribly wrong, and are just showing your Biblical ignorance. The mention on the 6th Seal of heaven departing as a scroll, and every mountain and island moved out of their places, is a DEFINITE MARKER of the "day of the Lord" timing, which is the day of Christ's future return. This marker about the mountains and the islands is ALSO given on the 7th VIAL timing per Revelation 16.

And the 70th week of Daniel 9, that is the final "one week" that has still yet to be accounted for. All the previous weeks can be accounted for.
 
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Davy

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Nope, Jesus reigns a 1000 years, you take Peters verses about the earths elements melting, but fail to Understand the Day of the Lord is a WIDE SWATH of things, not only Wrath, but why does the Judgement and Wrath come?
I am not misunderstanding the Scriptures. You are engulfed in men's doctrines instead of staying with The Bible as written. The word "elements" in the Greek is about a world-time. It is a Greek word that points to the ways and things of this present world, and not to the earth's atomic weights of earthly matter. God is going to cleanse the earth's surface once again in final, but using fire this next time instead of waters of a flood. He is not going to literally destroy this earth. He is going to cleanse it of man's works. With the time of Noah's flood, what did it destroy off the surface of this earth? Man and his works.

Other examples of that Greek word translated as "elements" in the KJV -- Galatians 4:3, Galatians 4:9.

NT:4747
stoicheion (stoy-khi'-on); neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of NT:4748; something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively):

KJV - element, principle, rudiment.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

So, Jesus can take back over Dominion of the Earth from Satan who tricked Adam & Eve out of the Dominion God gave them over the earth. Thus Jesus sets up his 1000 year reign in Jerusalem, thus his reign can be Juxtaposed against Satan's 6000 years on earth, that thus will condemn Satan at the Second Resurrection. The Day of the Lord is Jesus taking over, the Wrath of the Lamb falls, then he reigns for 1000 years, THEN this whole worlds elements will melt by fire. (this earth is hell, most do not understand that, in a twist, God gives Satan his prize, but it is on fire.
I agree Lord Jesus takes His starting 1,000 years reign with His elect on the day of His future return. No problem there. But the "day of the Lord" happens only on the LAST DAY of this present world as written, and that is when Jesus returns on that day, which also is written. And Peter was pointing specifically to that same... day at the very end of this present world also for when God's consuming fire will happen. You are confusing the future "lake of fire" that happens after Christ's future 1,000 years reign with God's consuming fire that happens on the day of Jesus' return. Those are two separate events.

Well, you are wrong on this, the Sun and Moon go dark via the Asteroid, then 1260 some odd dats later Jesus shows up,. JUST LIKE Zech. 14:1-2.............JUMPS 1260 DAYS to Zech. 14:3-4.
There's that asteroid speculation by men's doctrines again. I'll let you in on a little mystery. The 6th Seal events are actually in 2 Parts. The first Part is about Satan's coming to earth for the last days.

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV


Those stars of heaven falling to earth "as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs" is about the Revelation 12:7-9 future event when Satan and his angels are booted out of the heavenly dimension down to earth, in OUR earthly dimension. And that is what causes the great tribulation time at the end of this world. That "untimely figs" idea is about the winter fig in middle east fig horticulture. It means a fig that grows in the winter, but is an early fig, and falls off in the spring. The TRUE fig harvest time of the good fig is summer per Lord Jesus. So if one is harvested early, with the winter fig, it means they have fallen into false worship to the coming false messiah. And notice verse 12 above also... mentions a great earthquake, and the sun darkened and the moon turning to blood red. Those are also... going to be signs that the coming false-Messiah is going to use.

The rest of your post does not refer to me, so I don't know what that's about.
 

Davy

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No they are not, this is so easy to understand, but you will only have a chance at seeing it if you step back from your preconceived notion and think on it with an open mind. Let me show you why the very first portion can only be 70 AD. The 70 AD events look a lot like the end time conquering by the Anti-Christ, hence the Pharisees, who were learned men, actually thought that was the end times and the Messiah was going to save them from the Fourth Beast (Rome). Psstt, the Kingdom Age could have been ushered in at that time, except Israel never repented, thus the 70th week was put off. God of course foreknew all of this. Now with all of this in mind, lets look at Matt. 24-1-6 and see what was the very first SIGN Jesus told them about, if one doesn't stop to think its easy to miss it because of the wording in the Disciples question. They simply say when shall these things be, which means the Temples Destruction.
ALL of the Signs Jesus gave in that Matthew 24 Chapter are for THE END OF THIS WORLD, including the sign that not one stone would be atop another on the temple mount on the last day He was pointing to, the "end of the world" His disciples asked Him about there.

Today, the Western Wall of HUGE STONES ARE STILL STANDING AT THE TEMPLE MOUNT IN JERUSALEM. Also, the DOME OF THE ROCK Muslim shrine has great stones and is standing upon the temple mount yet today. So Lord Jesus' prophecy of not one stone atop another there WAS NEVER FULFILLED. So how much common sense does it take to recognize that huge stones are STILL there at that area of the temple mount in Jerusalem?
 

Davy

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This came from Paul, go read it. 1 Cor. 15, 2 Thess. 2:3 is the Departure of the Church also. So, do you really mean there is no Church Age or did that slip in there by mistake, because that is a non defensible POV. We are in the Church Age, the 7 Feasts tell of a coming Church Age, but when I explain it you guys refuse to answer the points, WHY? Isaiah says God will call a people he did not know. Paul says when the "Time of the Gentiles" comes full, only then will Israel's blindness be lifted. All one has to do is read Romans chapters 9-11 and it is evident Paul is speaking about God taking the Mantle away from Israel and giving it to the Gentiles, then he says when THIS TIME (Time of the Gentiles comes full), only then will Israel be grafted back in and repent.
Nah, that idea NEVER came from any of Christ's Apostles. And you are making it up a lie by saying the idea is written in those above Scriptures.

Also, there is NO departure of Christ's Church written of in 2 Thess.2:3. What Paul is revealing there is about a great falling away of God's people to the "man of sin" (pseudo-Christ of Matthew 24:23-26) who will sit in a rebuilt temple of God in Jerusalem for the end, and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is even called God, or that is worshiped. You see, you pre-trib rapture folks love to separate that 2 Thessalonians 2:4 verse from verse 3, when they both go together about the same topic.

You are being deceived by many of men's doctrines you are playing church with.
 

Davy

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Please explain unto me how the 1290 is in the exact middle of the Week?
It isn't. And I never said it was. You must have a reading comprehension problem.

The middle of the "one week" (7 years) is about simple math. You can do simple math can't you? What is half of a 7 year period?
 

No Pre-TB

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All you can do is quip I see, you never challenge my points because you cant. These quips are an admission of defeat. I am glad to see you can't refute my points, that = DEFEAT in any debate.
I've challenged them enough times as others have too. You deflect from me and others on scriptural points arguing you know better than us all. Your points have already been refuted but please continue with your diatribe.

When the very next word says the Mountain (oros) is BURNING (KAIO).
You want scriptural points. Ok, here is one. I mentioned that "Oros" isn't an asteroid and you still call it an asteroid because it is burning? The word for asteroid comes from "aster", also known as a star. "Oros" is never described as an asteroid or a meteor in Greek. Once again, this is your own mind that is imagining things not there. What does the text say versus what does scripture say?

Jeremiah 51:25
Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Who is the mountain here? It is Babylon symbolized as a Mountain, unmovable. Why is it described as a burnt mountain in the KJV? It's from the word "serephah" meaning a burning mountain. This is described as a mountain on fire or a volcanic mountain.

What happens to Babylon, this burning mountain of fire?

63And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates: 64And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

The burning mountain will be thrown down into water and it symbolizes its sinking as never to rise again. And the same analogy is found in Revelation 18:21

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Babylon is the great millstone or the great burning mountain that is thrown down into the sea to sink and never rise again. As Revelation 8:8 says,
a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:

Scripture validating scripture. Not imaginative asteroids and such things the text does not say nor uses the actual Greek words for.

Rev. 14:14 being a flashback to the Pre Trib Rapture.
There is no flashback to anything in Rev 14:14. You can try that circular reasoning all you want, but it's always wrong in the end.
Matthew 13:39 says,
the harvest is the end of the world;

Not 7 years before the end of the world, but at the end when we are resurrected at the last day. As the verse continues:

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity

If it's his kingdom, then Christ must be reigning in it meaning the 7th Trumpet must have been blown. He can only reign when the Kingdoms of the world become his. As it stated in the verse above, he gathers out of his kingdom all things that offend and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. And we read in Revelation 11:15-18 that Christ begins to reign, rewards us and:

thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The same is confirmed in Matthew 25:31

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

When Christ comes back at the 7th trumpet, then he will sit on the throne as King over the Kingdom of this world. Then He will say to us,

Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Not Heaven, but the Kingdom, the New Jerusalem. And what about our change?

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Eternal Life happens in HIS Kingdom, not 7 years before according to Pre-TB. As 2 Timothy 4:1 proves,

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

As is also shown in Isaiah 25:6-9

6And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
7And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


The mountain is that Kingdom of Christ when he will reign at the 7th Trumpet. It's identified in Daniel 2:35. Whereas, 1 Cor 15:54, Paul addresses "swallow up in victory".

When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: "Death has been swallowed up in victory.

No Pre-TB and no flashbacks. Scripture validating scripture!

But you continue to be prideful as you said to @The Light in post #284
You are in error.
And you say it to him again in post #287
The difference is I have been calked unto Prophecy for 37 years. I actually understand it in full, the fact that you seeing still can't grasp it just shows me it is not your calling.
And we keep telling you Milam, you are wrong! Big time! Yet you even say this:
Hey, it is OK to be wrong, I love being wrong, that way I know I am being taught God's truths so I joy in being told I am wrong !!
So listen to your own advice, you're wrong. Learn from others.

And in post #288 your pride lifts its ugly head again.
I know more about Prophecy than anyone you will ever meet brother.

The problem is, you're adding to scripture things that don't exist. Then you deny logic and fact and say you know best; Called to prophecy for over 37 years. No Ronald, plenty of people have posted truth on the forum in rebuttal to you. We all don't need to repost the same thing as we can just "like" the post of others when we agree. We don't need to type up a response to you if someone else replies. You really need to remove yourself from that high elevated seat and come down to earth to take the low seat.
 

The Light

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ALL of the Signs Jesus gave in that Matthew 24 Chapter are for THE END OF THIS WORLD, including the sign that not one stone would be atop another on the temple mount on the last day He was pointing to, the "end of the world" His disciples asked Him about there.

Today, the Western Wall of HUGE STONES ARE STILL STANDING AT THE TEMPLE MOUNT IN JERUSALEM. Also, the DOME OF THE ROCK Muslim shrine has great stones and is standing upon the temple mount yet today. So Lord Jesus' prophecy of not one stone atop another there WAS NEVER FULFILLED. So how much common sense does it take to recognize that huge stones are STILL there at that area of the temple mount in Jerusalem?
Very surprised that you understand this. Few do. Well done.
 

ewq1938

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Satan was on earth for Jobs temptation, also Jesus Christ's temptation in the wilderness of 40 days and nights, your suggestions that Satan is cast out of heaven in the future is Big Smiles

Big smiles? There is nothing to be proud of in that post. Being cast out of heaven means he cannot go to heaven anymore. Showing how he has been in the Earth doesn't disprove anything as everyone already knows satan was always able to come to the Earth.
 

The Light

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You want scriptural points. Ok, here is one. I mentioned that "Oros" isn't an asteroid and you still call it an asteroid because it is burning? The word for asteroid comes from "aster", also known as a star. "Oros" is never described as an asteroid or a meteor in Greek. Once again, this is your own mind that is imagining things not there. What does the text say versus what does scripture say?
Here is the second trumpet and you are correct, there is no star mentioned.
Revelation 8
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

However, if we go to the third trumpet, we do see a star from heaven, so the asteroid could be correct.

Revelation 8
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
 

Davy

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Please explain unto me how the 1290 is in the exact middle of the Week?

We know there is a 7 Year Agreement (Israel joins the E.U.) in which the Anti-Christ forces some concessions out of Israel as in GIVE UP YOUR NUKES (after the Gog Magog war) and we will be your protector like the USA protects Hawaii etc. etc. In so doing the Anti-Christ will have political sway over leaders in Israel, as the E.U. tries to do in all of the European member nations nations now. They meddle with Hungary's border polices etc. etc. The E.U. will mandate Israel give up ger nukes, else how will they ever be conquered? But then after 1230 days, which is 1290 days from the time Jesus shows up (TO END ALL OF THESE WONDERS....or the Anti-Christs rule over Israel), thus as we can see by reading Dan. 12:11-12 the 1290 can not be in the exact middle of the week.
The 1290 days are for AFTER the 7 years period or "one week" of Daniel 9:27.

[--1260 days--][AOD]--1260 days (trib)--][--Jesus return--][30 days][45 days]

The 30 days are for AFTER JESUS HAS RETURNED. Some scholars treat that as the sanctuary 'cleansing' period of Daniel 8:14, and I agree. That means after the great trib has been ended by Jesus' return.

The 45 days after that 1290 period represents the Daniel 12:12 time of 1335 days when those who 'waited' being 'blessed', and is put for Christ's elect that reign with Him for the 1,000 years of Rev.20.

You putting faith on man's false pre-trib rapture theory ideas is what has you confused as to the timings God's Word is showing.

The midst is not the middle. Jesus tells us what happens in the exact middle of the week in verse 7, The Anti-Christ (as shown in Dan. 11:36-45) conquers Israel (holy peoples) and rules over them for 1260 days, then ALL THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45) ENDS. If the 1260 is the EXACT MIDDLE of the week, how can the 1290 also be the EXACT MIDDLE of the week?
You just saying, "it can't be" is not enough to make your belief true.

The 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9 reveals previous periods in history that were fulfilled, all the way up to the time of Christ's 1st coming and death on the cross. That covered a period of 69 symbolic weeks (each symbolic week represents a 7 year period). The final "one week" of Daniel 9:27 was never fulfilled in history, it is still expecting today. Men's doctrines have tried... to downplay that final "one week", and even attempt to say it happened during Lord Jesus' Ministry, which of course is false. You can find many denial doctrines by the devil's servants that want to say all the 70 weeks prophecy for Jerusalem and her people were fulfilled, when that is not true.

The "vile person" of Daniel 11, what he does there, is tied to that final "one week" of 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

The subject of ending the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem, and placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol in a temple there instead for false worship is mentioned in Daniel 8:12, Daniel 11:31, and Daniel 12:11, pointing to the end of this world especially in Daniel 12.

Per history around 170 B.C., Antiochus Ephiphanes took Jerusalem with an army, ended the Jew's daily sacrifices, went into the 2nd temple and sacrificed swine upon its altar, and spread its broth throughout inside the temple (this per the Jewish historian Josephus - 100 A.D.). Antiochus then setup an altar to Zeus idol worship, and demanded all bow to that idol worship.

Antiochus served only as a blueprint for the final "abomination of desolation" event that Lord Jesus forewarned in His Olivet discourse about 200 years after... Antiochus had been dead. No man can try to say Antiochus fulfilled that "vile person" prophecy simply because Lord Jesus pointed directly to it in His Olivet discourse among the SIGNS for the end of this present world leading up to His future return.
 

Timtofly

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So, Trumps 1-4 begin God's Wrath, we see then in Rev. 8:13 that an angel proclaims Woe, Woe, Woe, and says the sounding of the last three Trumps bring the Three Woes, do you get that part? Trump #5 is therefore the first woe, Trump #6 is the 2nd Woe. Thus Trump #7 is the third woe, and we therefore understand the last woe is ALL 7 Vials in total. The 7 Vials COMPLETE God's Wrath. Rev. 9:20 states very clearly that those who have the Mark of the Beast are killed by the "Plagues of God". The Asteroid Impact kills many also, do you think the Asteroid Impact in Rev. 8 is not God's wrath? That makes no sense, once again brother you take one scripture and run with a bad phraseology. Rev. 15 says the Wrath of God is filled up or completed by the 7 Vials.
The Trumpets are God's judgment. The woes are not.

First woe: Satan's angels loosed from the pit, called locust. What they do is the first woe.

Second woe: the army of horsemen. More of Satan's angels loosed on the earth.

The third woe is Satan himself confined to earth and setting up the AoD.

The woes are what Satan and his angels do.

Jude 1:6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

2 Peter 2:4

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;"

The Trumpets are when God allows these angels loose on humanity. The Trumpets are not about Satan. They are the final harvest for Israel. But the woes are about Satan and his angels.

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."