Calvinism vs. Arminianism

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justbyfaith

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I will go through my understanding of the five points of Calvinism in this post.

T - Total Depravity: Calvinism teaches that man is totally depraved and cannot make a decision to receive Christ unless he has already been born again of the Holy Spirit.

I would teach that there is a middle ground between total depravity and being born again...being drawn by the Holy Spirit...in which a man, who is not yet regenerated or born again, is enabled to either receive or reject Christ in that window of opportunity in which the Holy Spirit is drawing him. If he then receives Christ rather than rejecting Him, he becomes born again of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ.

Verses that substantiate this are Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2.

U - Unconditional Election: Calvinism teaches that God arbitrarily chooses out some people for heaven and others for hell based on His choice alone.

I would teach that the Lord predestinates according to foreknowledge.

It is like the following parable.

You see a door in front of you with a sign on it that says, "Whosoever will, let him come." Upon entering, you find a table set with a nametag with your name on it at a place that was specifically set for you. You look back at the door and see a sign that says, "Predestined from before the foundations of the world."

Predestination according to foreknowledge means that the Lord knows who, when faced with the door with the sign on the outside, will choose to walk through that door; and before you walked through it He set a place for you knowing that you would be a guest at the dinner table. In this, He chose you and you did not choose Him; because eternity is a greater thing than time; and God from eternity looked down into time and saw you making the decision to receive Him; and then, by His predetermined counsel and will, chose you and did everything in his Omnipotent power to bring you into the kingdom.

But He still bases His decision on the fact that He looked down from eternity and saw that you received Him.

Verses that substantiate this are Romans 8:29-30 and 1 Peter 1:2.

L - Limited Atonement: hyper-Calvinism teaches that Jesus only died for the elect and that therefore, if you are of the non-elect, you cannot be saved even if you were to do what it takes to enter into salvation (such as the prescriptions in Romans 10:8-13 and Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

I would teach that this is not a biblical doctrine. For in John 6:37, it becomes clear that whoever comes to Jesus, He will in no wise cast out.

It should also be clear that scripture teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Peter 3:9) and that therefore Limited Atonement is a fallacy.

The reality therefore is Unlimited Atonement but Limited Salvation; because Universalism is not the reality. Atonement is based on the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross for the sins of all men; salvation is based on whether a man receives Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour.

I - Irresistible Grace: Calvinism teaches that if someone is of the elect, absolutely nothing can prevent him from being saved. He will be irresistibly drawn to Christ and cannot make any other decision than to receive Christ within his lifetime.

I would respond to this by saying that the Lord is not a mafia boss and He does not give us "an offer that we can't refuse". Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a gentleman.

Also, I once so wanted to believe in this that I found verses that seemed to substantiate it. In 1 Corinthians 13:8, "Love never fails" and in Revelation 19:6 we have the idea that the Lord is Omnipotent. Who then can resist salvation if He wants you saved?

The problem with this is that it leads incontrovertibly to the idea of either Limited Atonement or Universalism. We have seen above that Limited Atonement is a fallacy.

And Universalism is a fallacy because Jesus spoke of a literal hell that people go to (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46) and therefore not everyone gets saved.

So then, if neither Universalism nor Limited Atonement are the reality, then neither is Irresistible Grace.

What then does "Love never fail" to do, in all of God's Omnipotence?

It doesn't fail to give man a degree of sovereignty by which he can choose whether to receive Jesus as his Lord and Saviour and be saved; or else to reject Jesus as Lord and Saviour and be damned.

Finally, the idea that grace is irresistible is refuted by Acts of the Apostles 7:51.

P - Perseverance of the Saints: Calvinism teaches that if once a man is truly born again, he will never depart from the faith but will endure to the end and cannot lose his salvation.

There is a deplorable offshoot of this idea, Once Saved Always Saved, that teaches that if you go forward at a Crusade or church service, you are saved and cannot lose your salvation no matter how you live your life after that.

I believe that the Bible refutes such an idea in Romans 11:20-22.

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


And I would also respond to this concept by pointing the believer to Luke 8:12-13.

Luk 8:12, Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Here is the context of Luke 8:13. It teaches that if anyone believes, they will be saved. This is important in our exegesis of the next verse.

Luk 8:13, They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Here a person believes and is saved, not from hell, but from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14); if only for a season. From the perspective of eternity he is not one of the elect; but from the perspective of time he is saved for a season. He falls away in a time of temptation, tribulation, or persecution (see also Matthew 13:20-21).

Now, in order for Once Saved Always Saved to still be a reality, falling away from faith would have to be no big deal; it would have to be true that you do not lose your salvation if you fall away. But that is a heretical doctrine of devils. The devil loves to promote that idea because it lends to the prospect of believers thinking there are no consequences to falling away and therefore if someone is inclined to fall away they might just go down that path if they think that this false doctrine is a reality; that there are no eternal consequences for falling away.

Some try to promote this heresy by quoting 2 Timothy 2:13; not realizing that 2 Timothy 2:12 (its immediate context) refutes what they would be trying to say by that verse. It tells us that if we deny Him, He also will deny us.

And the fact that we can deny Him by our behaviour is evident in Titus 1:16.

That, if you fall away from faith, you do not continue to have salvation is evident in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2.

The teaching there is that we are saved by grace through faith and that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

Therefore faith is the conduit by which we receive grace; and since we are saved by grace, if we do not have grace we do not have salvation.

Thus, if I do not have access to grace, I do not have access to salvation.

Thus, since I have access to grace by my faith, if I do not have faith I also do not have salvation.

Now, Luke 8:13 is the one who has a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith.

If I have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14), then I am sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) unto an everlasting faith (Galatians 5:22-23, 1 Corinthians 12:9) and thus I will have everlasting life (John 6:47)...life that can never come to an end...otherwise it would have been defined as temporal.

The exhortation here is to abide by the following.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

which means:

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

It is possible to have the following apply in your life.

Phl 1:6, Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
 
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Grailhunter

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I will go through my understanding of the five points of Calvinism in this post.

T - Total Depravity: Calvinism teaches that man is totally depraved and cannot make a decision to either receive Christ unless he has already been born again of the Holy Spirit.

I would teach that there is a middle ground between total depravity and being born again...being drawn by the Holy Spirit...in which a man, who is not yet regenerated or born again, is enabled to either receive or reject Christ in that window of opportunity in which the Holy Spirit is drawing him. If he then receives Christ rather than rejecting Him, he becomes born again of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ.

Verses that substantiate this are Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2.

U - Unconditional Election: Calvinism teaches that God arbitrarily chooses out some people for heaven and others for hell based on His choice alone.

I would teach that the Lord predestinates according to foreknowledge.

It is like the following parable.

You see a door in front of you with a sign on it that says, "Whosoever will, let him come." Upon entering, you find a table set with a nametag with your name on it at a place that was specifically set for you. You look back at the door and see a sign that says, "Predestined from before the foundations of the world."

Predestination according to foreknowledge means that the Lord knows who, when faced with the door with the sign on the outside, will choose to walk through that door; and before you walked through it He set a place for you knowing that you would be a guest at the dinner table. In this, he chose you and you did not choose Him; because eternity is a greater thing than time; and God from eternity looked down into time and saw you making the decision to receive Him; and then, by His predetermined counsel and will, chose you and did everything in his Omnipotent power to bring you into the kingdom.

But He still bases His decision on the fact that He looked down from eternity and saw that you received Him.

Verses that substantiate this are Romans 8:29-30 and 1 Peter 1:2.

L - Limited Atonement: hyper-Calvinism teaches that Jesus only died for the elect and that therefore, if you are of the non-elect, you cannot be saved even if you were to do what it takes to enter into salvation (such as the prescriptions in Romans 10:8-13 and Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

I would teach that this is not a biblical doctrine. For in John 6:37, it becomes clear that whoever comes to Jesus, He will in no wise cast out.

It should also be clear that scripture teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6) and that therefore Limited Atonement is a fallacy.

The reality therefore is Unlimited Atonement but Limited Salvation; because Universalism is not the reality. Atonement is based on whether a man receives Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour.

I - Irresistible Grace: Calvinism teaches that if someone is of the elect, absolutely nothing can prevent him from being saved. He will be irresistibly drawn to Christ and cannot make any other decision than to receive Christ within his lifetime.

I would respond to this by saying that the Lord is not a mafia boss and He does not give us "an offer that we can't refuse". Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a gentleman.

Also, I once so wanted to believe in this that I found verses that seemed to substantiate it. In John 13:8, "Love never fails" and in Revelation 19:6 we have the idea that the Lord is Omnipotent. Who then can resist salvation if He wants you saved?

The problem with this is that it leads incontrovertibly to the idea of either Limited Atonement or Universalism. We have seen above that Limited Atonement is a fallacy.

And Universalism is a fallacy because Jesus spoke of a literal hell that people go to (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46) and therefore not everyone gets saved.

So then, if neither Universalism nor Limited Atonement are the reality, then neither is Irresistible Grace.

What then does "love never fail" to do, in all of God's Omnipotence?

It doesn't fail to give man a degree of sovereignty by which he can choose whether to receive Jesus as his Lord and Saviour and be saved; or else to reject Jesus as Lord and Saviour and be damned.

Finally, the idea that grace is irresistible is refuted by Acts of the Apostles 7:51.

P - Perseverance of the Saints: Calvinism teaches that if once a man is truly born again, he will never depart from the faith but will endure to the end and cannot lose his salvation.

There is a deplorable offshoot of this idea, Once Saved Always Saved, that teaches that if you go forward at a Crusade or church service, you are saved and cannot lose your salvation no matter how you live your life after that.

I believe that the Bible refutes such an idea in Romans 11:20-22.

And I would also respond to this concept by pointing the believer to Luke 8:12-13.

Luk 8:12, Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Here is the context of Luke 8:13. It teaches that if anyone believes they will be saved. This is important in our exegesis of the next verse.

Luk 8:13, They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Here a person believes and is saved, not from hell, but from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14); if only for a season. From the perspective of eternity he is not one of the elect; but from the perspective of time he is saved for a season. He falls away in a time of temptation, tribulation, or persecution (see also Matthew 13:20-21).

Now, in order for Once Saved Always Saved to still be a reality, falling away from faith would have to be no big deal; it would have to be true that you do not lose your salvation if you fall away. But that is a heretical doctrine of devils. The devil loves to promote that idea because it lends to the prospect of believers thinking there are no consequences to falling away and therefore if someone is inclined to fall away they might just go down that path if they think that this false doctrine is a reality.

Some try to promote this heresy by quoting 2 Timothy 2:13; not realizing that 2 Timothy 2:12 (its immediate context) refutes what they would be trying to say by that verse. It tells us that if we deny Him, He also will deny us.

And the fact that we can deny Him by our behaviour is evident in Titus 1:16.

That, if you fall away from faith, you do not continue to have salvation is evident in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2.

The teaching there is that we are saved by grace through faith and that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

Therefore faith is the conduit by which we receive grace; and since we are saved by grace if we do not have grace we do not have salvation.

Thus, if I do not have access to grace, I do not have access to salvation.

Thus, since I have access to grace by my faith, if I do not have faith I also do not have salvation.

Now, Luke 8:13 is the one who has a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith.

If I have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3"6, Hebrews 3:14), then I am sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) unto an everlasting faith (Galatians 5:22-23, 1 Corinthians 12:9) and thus I will have everlasting life (John 6:47)...life that can never come to an end...otherwise it would have been defined as temporal.

The exhortation here is to abide by the following.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

which means:

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

It is possible to have the following apply in your life.

Phl 1:6, Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Salutations JBF.
It is one thing for God to know how it is all going to turn out and set a place for you.
At that point there is no need for predestination. That is the way it is going to turn out.
No harm with that...place at the banquet...right!
But if God locks it all down, that is entirely something different...something evil. The world becomes a preplanned play. No good done by man is to their credit and no bad done is their fault. God takes all the credit...good and bad.
Satan knows his quota from the beginning and judgement day is nullified.
That is the reason that I do not believe that God does that.
Predestination of events is certainly an ability of God...but the whole puppet master thing is ludicrous.
Once you get into that, you get into the whole destiny thing that Christianity does not agree with either.
 

justbyfaith

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More on Perseverance of the Saints.

I believe that Jeremiah 32:38-40 is a key passage for our understanding.

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

For when we look at the three-fold assurance in John 10:27-30, there is almost always the objection that while no one can snatch us out of the hand of God, that we can walk away ourselves.

That would be true for anyone who does not have the fear of the LORD because of passages that teach one can lose his salvation.

But for those who do have the fear of the LORD, it should be clear that the fear of the LORD is a safeguard against "walking away from the Lord yourself."

It also becomes clear that passages that teach that you can fall away are intended to place the fear of the LORD in you so that you can have the "eternal security" that is spoken of in Jeremiah 32:38-40 and Psalms 19:9.

It can be mind-boggling to contemplate. Because if I figure that I have eternal security because of the fear of the LORD, fear of the LORD might go out the window.

Prayer is the answer.

If you want eternal security, pray unto the Lord that He would place His fear in you. And then consider that if you ever go past the boundaries set for you by the Lord, you could cross the line and fall away from your faith and thus "lose your salvation".

If the fear of the LORD causes you to stay within those boundaries, you need never fear (as in terror) the reality of the possibility of falling away. You are safe and secure within the boundaries.

And also, that the fear of the LORD endures for ever is a reality that is evident when we read Psalms 19:9.
 
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justbyfaith

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Salutations JBF.
It is one thing for God to know how it is all going to turn out and set a place for you.
At that point there is no need for predestination. That is the way it is going to turn out.
No harm with that...place at the banquet...right!
But if God locks it all down, that is entirely something different...something evil. The world becomes a preplanned play. No good done by man is to their credit and no bad done is their fault. God takes all the credit...good and bad.
Satan knows his quota from the beginning and judgement day is nullified.
That is the reason that I do not believe that God does that.
Predestination of events is certainly an ability of God...but the whole puppet master thing is ludicrous.
Once you get into that, you get into the whole destiny thing that Christianity does not agree with either.

Yes; God doesn't lock the door from the inside to prevent the "non-elect" from entering in by it; and He does not open only to "the elect" when they knock.

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
 
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Nancy

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I will go through my understanding of the five points of Calvinism in this post.

T - Total Depravity: Calvinism teaches that man is totally depraved and cannot make a decision to receive Christ unless he has already been born again of the Holy Spirit.

I would teach that there is a middle ground between total depravity and being born again...being drawn by the Holy Spirit...in which a man, who is not yet regenerated or born again, is enabled to either receive or reject Christ in that window of opportunity in which the Holy Spirit is drawing him. If he then receives Christ rather than rejecting Him, he becomes born again of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ.

Verses that substantiate this are Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2.

U - Unconditional Election: Calvinism teaches that God arbitrarily chooses out some people for heaven and others for hell based on His choice alone.

I would teach that the Lord predestinates according to foreknowledge.

It is like the following parable.

You see a door in front of you with a sign on it that says, "Whosoever will, let him come." Upon entering, you find a table set with a nametag with your name on it at a place that was specifically set for you. You look back at the door and see a sign that says, "Predestined from before the foundations of the world."

Predestination according to foreknowledge means that the Lord knows who, when faced with the door with the sign on the outside, will choose to walk through that door; and before you walked through it He set a place for you knowing that you would be a guest at the dinner table. In this, He chose you and you did not choose Him; because eternity is a greater thing than time; and God from eternity looked down into time and saw you making the decision to receive Him; and then, by His predetermined counsel and will, chose you and did everything in his Omnipotent power to bring you into the kingdom.

But He still bases His decision on the fact that He looked down from eternity and saw that you received Him.

Verses that substantiate this are Romans 8:29-30 and 1 Peter 1:2.

L - Limited Atonement: hyper-Calvinism teaches that Jesus only died for the elect and that therefore, if you are of the non-elect, you cannot be saved even if you were to do what it takes to enter into salvation (such as the prescriptions in Romans 10:8-13 and Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

I would teach that this is not a biblical doctrine. For in John 6:37, it becomes clear that whoever comes to Jesus, He will in no wise cast out.

It should also be clear that scripture teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6) and that therefore Limited Atonement is a fallacy.

The reality therefore is Unlimited Atonement but Limited Salvation; because Universalism is not the reality. Atonement is based on whether a man receives Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour.

I - Irresistible Grace: Calvinism teaches that if someone is of the elect, absolutely nothing can prevent him from being saved. He will be irresistibly drawn to Christ and cannot make any other decision than to receive Christ within his lifetime.

I would respond to this by saying that the Lord is not a mafia boss and He does not give us "an offer that we can't refuse". Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a gentleman.

Also, I once so wanted to believe in this that I found verses that seemed to substantiate it. In 1 Corinthians 13:8, "Love never fails" and in Revelation 19:6 we have the idea that the Lord is Omnipotent. Who then can resist salvation if He wants you saved?

The problem with this is that it leads incontrovertibly to the idea of either Limited Atonement or Universalism. We have seen above that Limited Atonement is a fallacy.

And Universalism is a fallacy because Jesus spoke of a literal hell that people go to (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46) and therefore not everyone gets saved.

So then, if neither Universalism nor Limited Atonement are the reality, then neither is Irresistible Grace.

What then does "Love never fail" to do, in all of God's Omnipotence?

It doesn't fail to give man a degree of sovereignty by which he can choose whether to receive Jesus as his Lord and Saviour and be saved; or else to reject Jesus as Lord and Saviour and be damned.

Finally, the idea that grace is irresistible is refuted by Acts of the Apostles 7:51.

P - Perseverance of the Saints: Calvinism teaches that if once a man is truly born again, he will never depart from the faith but will endure to the end and cannot lose his salvation.

There is a deplorable offshoot of this idea, Once Saved Always Saved, that teaches that if you go forward at a Crusade or church service, you are saved and cannot lose your salvation no matter how you live your life after that.

I believe that the Bible refutes such an idea in Romans 11:20-22.

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


And I would also respond to this concept by pointing the believer to Luke 8:12-13.

Luk 8:12, Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Here is the context of Luke 8:13. It teaches that if anyone believes, they will be saved. This is important in our exegesis of the next verse.

Luk 8:13, They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Here a person believes and is saved, not from hell, but from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14); if only for a season. From the perspective of eternity he is not one of the elect; but from the perspective of time he is saved for a season. He falls away in a time of temptation, tribulation, or persecution (see also Matthew 13:20-21).

Now, in order for Once Saved Always Saved to still be a reality, falling away from faith would have to be no big deal; it would have to be true that you do not lose your salvation if you fall away. But that is a heretical doctrine of devils. The devil loves to promote that idea because it lends to the prospect of believers thinking there are no consequences to falling away and therefore if someone is inclined to fall away they might just go down that path if they think that this false doctrine is a reality; that there are no eternal consequences for falling away.

Some try to promote this heresy by quoting 2 Timothy 2:13; not realizing that 2 Timothy 2:12 (its immediate context) refutes what they would be trying to say by that verse. It tells us that if we deny Him, He also will deny us.

And the fact that we can deny Him by our behaviour is evident in Titus 1:16.

That, if you fall away from faith, you do not continue to have salvation is evident in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2.

The teaching there is that we are saved by grace through faith and that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

Therefore faith is the conduit by which we receive grace; and since we are saved by grace, if we do not have grace we do not have salvation.

Thus, if I do not have access to grace, I do not have access to salvation.

Thus, since I have access to grace by my faith, if I do not have faith I also do not have salvation.

Now, Luke 8:13 is the one who has a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith.

If I have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14), then I am sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) unto an everlasting faith (Galatians 5:22-23, 1 Corinthians 12:9) and thus I will have everlasting life (John 6:47)...life that can never come to an end...otherwise it would have been defined as temporal.

The exhortation here is to abide by the following.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

which means:

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

It is possible to have the following apply in your life.

Phl 1:6, Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Well put, and thought out. I hope any who might be struggling with this will read your post. I have a brother who is attending one now and, they are trying to suck him in. He is pretty impressionable and pray God will give him discernment with all of this.
Thanks for sharing.
 
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justbyfaith

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Well put, and thought out.
I gave it as a message to my wife before I typed it out.

I wanted to explain to her what Calvinism is and what the reality is concerning that doctrine.

It was the result of much time dealing with Calvinists over a long period of time.

Thank you for the compliment.

:)
 
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reformed1689

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I will go through my understanding of the five points of Calvinism in this post.

T - Total Depravity: Calvinism teaches that man is totally depraved and cannot make a decision to receive Christ unless he has already been born again of the Holy Spirit.

I would teach that there is a middle ground between total depravity and being born again...being drawn by the Holy Spirit...in which a man, who is not yet regenerated or born again, is enabled to either receive or reject Christ in that window of opportunity in which the Holy Spirit is drawing him. If he then receives Christ rather than rejecting Him, he becomes born again of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ.

Verses that substantiate this are Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2................
All this demonstrates is that you have made a strawman argument for what Calvinism actually teaches. There are bits of truth but much of this is not understanding what is actually being taught and making it into something else.

Reformed Theology is absolutely biblical. I will be glad to take you up on any of the five major points.
 
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justbyfaith

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All this demonstrates is that you have made a strawman argument for what Calvinism actually teaches. There are bits of truth but much of this is not understanding what is actually being taught and making it into something else.

Reformed Theology is absolutely biblical. I will be glad to take you up on any of the five major points.

I have not misunderstood what Calvinism teaches...I have learned its teaching through many conversations with those who hold to Calvinistic theology.

I also think that you are evading when you try to say that Calvinists do not really believe what I have set forth as their belief system.

Perhaps you don't believe exactly that way; and perhaps some who identify themselves as Calvinists don't believe that way; but I assure you that this is the faith of Calvinism that I have presented: and therefore if your belief is different you ought to question whether your view is truly Calvinistic in nature.
 
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reformed1689

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By all means use the quote feature and respond to any of my statements.

These forums are meant for discussion to take place.
Let's start with Radical Depravity

We know that sin has put us in such a state that we do not and cannot desire God. Romans 3:10-11 says that there are none that are righteous and that there are none that seek after God. That is an emphatic statement. None seek after God. Romans 8:7-8 states that those in the flesh (unsaved) are hostile to God and cannot submit to Him. Not might not, cannot.

Further, John 6:44 states that nobody can come to Him unless the Father draws him. The word draw has the literal meaning of dragging, pulling, like drawing water from a well. It is not the natural will of sinful man to come to Christ. Titus 3:3-5 talks about how it is God who changes us, not ourselves. Ephesians 2:8-9 also says that it is a gift, given to us. It is nothing that we have done or sought out. It is God and God alone who changes the person to accept Him by faith. Faith is the gift.

And no, you are not saved before placing that faith in Christ. It is a simultaneous interaction. The regeneration of the spirit to accept faith.
 

justbyfaith

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Let's start with Radical Depravity

We know that sin has put us in such a state that we do not and cannot desire God. Romans 3:10-11 says that there are none that are righteous and that there are none that seek after God. That is an emphatic statement. None seek after God. Romans 8:7-8 states that those in the flesh (unsaved) are hostile to God and cannot submit to Him. Not might not, cannot.

Further, John 6:44 states that nobody can come to Him unless the Father draws him. The word draw has the literal meaning of dragging, pulling, like drawing water from a well. It is not the natural will of sinful man to come to Christ. Titus 3:3-5 talks about how it is God who changes us, not ourselves. Ephesians 2:8-9 also says that it is a gift, given to us. It is nothing that we have done or sought out. It is God and God alone who changes the person to accept Him by faith. Faith is the gift.

I have stated that there is a middle ground between the Total Depravity that you are talking about and being born again. I wrote,

T - Total Depravity: Calvinism teaches that man is totally depraved and cannot make a decision to receive Christ unless he has already been born again of the Holy Spirit.

I would teach that there is a middle ground between total depravity and being born again...being drawn by the Holy Spirit...in which a man, who is not yet regenerated or born again, is enabled to either receive or reject Christ in that window of opportunity in which the Holy Spirit is drawing him. If he then receives Christ rather than rejecting Him, he becomes born again of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ.

Verses that substantiate this are Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:1-2.

And no, you are not saved before placing that faith in Christ.

I believe that you differ from other Calvinists in that statement.
 
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justbyfaith

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You are referring to HYPER Calvinists. That is not Calvinism.
Go over my assessment of Calvinism in the OP and show me what I have said that is referring to hyper-Calvinism and then show what non-hyper-Calvinism teaches on the subject; so I can get a better understanding of what non-hyper-Calvinism really is.

I'm not saying that you have to do it.

Just that it would be a good discussion for me, very likely.

Thanks.
 
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marks

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You are referring to HYPER Calvinists. That is not Calvinism.
What does that mean, "hyper Calvinist"? It seems like a label to use dismissively.

What I've long understood about Calvinist soteriology is that "dead men can't choose", therefore, God revives the dead to life, upon which time they discover they believe, and they repent.

Your view is different?

Much love!
 
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reformed1689

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Go over my assessment of Calvinism in the OP and show me what I have said that is referring to hyper-Calvinism and then show what non-hyper-Calvinism teaches on the subject; so I can get a better understanding of what non-hyper-Calvinism really is.

I'm not saying that you have to do it.

Just that it would be a good discussion for me, very likely.

Thanks.
Well with Radical Depravity I just showed you what Calvinism actually teaches.
 

reformed1689

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justbyfaith

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A hyper-Calvinist is one who:

  1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
  2. Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
  3. Denies that the gospel makes any “offer” of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal), OR
  4. Denies that there is such a thing as “common grace,” OR
  5. Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.
As concerning 3...

It seems to me that the point of Limited Atonement indicates that if someone is of the non-elect, they cannot be saved even if they do what it takes to be saved.

I have argued this point with Calvinists before.

I have said that if someone does what it takes to be saved, that it proves that they are of the elect.

But it really does seem to me that they have made point after point that have the implication that if you are not of the elect, you cannot be saved and that God knows whether or not you are one of His elect and therefore He might cast you out if you come to Him but are of the non-elect.

John 6:37 would tell us differently, of course.

Calvinists that I have contended with believe that if someone does what it takes to be saved, they may not be saved because if they are of the non-elect they cannot be saved no matter what they do.

This doctrine is based in the idea that we cannot save ourselves by anything that we might do but that God does all the saving.

Even to the exclusion of the reality that if we place our faith in Jesus, that faith gives us access into grace (Romans 5:2).