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Can a Christian Backslide/lose salvation?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Franklin, Mar 19, 2008.

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  1. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    I know this is an age old argument, but for the sake of clarity, and interest - what do you think: Can a Christian Backslide/lose salvation?
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Absoulty though some will tell you no! The tribulation will be bring Antichrist to the World we are told and warned that the delusion will be so strong that God shortened the time or even the Elect if possable would be fooled. Into believing him to be christand the whole world followed after the beast that is Satan Now What does God Say to us about this falling away from himMat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     
  3. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    I think so too! See i was told as a kid that i was a Christian- once saved always saved - then I started drinking(but it was okay because I am always saved) - started acting immoral in my purity with women(it was okay because I was always saved) even had affairs! Did I feel bad about it? Yes... but I kept doing those things - Then I repented - cried out for forgiveness... and turned my life around looking back I KNOW I was not saved during those years of loose living and immorality... My whole view is changed now as a REAL CHRISTIAN... Personal experience tells me - you can LOSE your salvation just as if you where never saved... Thats my opinion
     
  4. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    A Chirstian can most definitely backslide, but they will NEVER loose their salvation. For those who say it is possible, then John 3:16 means NOTHING and God is being called a liar. Ever heard of "Everlasting life...Eternal? Can anyone prove form the Bible where God says when He gives us the gift of salvation He can/and or will take it away? If you offer any other scripture as a rebuttal, then at that point all that is happening is again God is being called a liar, because God's word DOES NOT contradict itself!
     
  5. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    (Franklin;41423)
    I think so too! See i was told as a kid that i was a Christian- once saved always saved - then I started drinking(but it was okay because I am always saved) - started acting immoral in my purity with women(it was okay because I was always saved) even had affairs! Did I feel bad about it? Yes... but I kept doing those things - Then I repented - cried out for forgiveness... and turned my life around looking back I KNOW I was not saved during those years of loose living and immorality... My whole view is changed now as a REAL CHRISTIAN... Personal experience tells me - you can LOSE your salvation just as if you where never saved... [I'm sorry but no one Can't have the cake and eat it too!]Thats my opinion
    You have stated your self that you were NOT saved to begin with! So how can you loose something you never had to begin with?There is not an hour that goes by that you in some manner do not sin, do you really think that Jesus hung on that tree, just for the fun of it? God is not an Indian giver.
     
  6. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    So let's look at my circumstance. A Went to an altarB made life changes - baptism, read bible, prayedC made some very bad choices - VERY badD adultery, alcohol, more adultery, more alcohol - fornication - wild livingE repented - made real life changes F now for 15 years I have been on the path! Was I saved and heaven bound for the entire A through F duration? I don't think so.
     
  7. Jerusalem Junkie

    Jerusalem Junkie New Member

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    Franklin I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I don't care how dedicated or serving you are as a Christian you are going to sin its inevitable and going to happen. Jesus once said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Believe me no one here can cast that stone not even me or you. I am not much on the Christian faith anymore but relax man, read Gods word, pray you will know what to do...
     
  8. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    (Franklin;41427)
    So let's look at my circumstance. A Went to an altarB made life changes - baptism, read bible, prayedC made some very bad choices - VERY badD adultery, alcohol, more adultery, more alcohol - fornication - wild livingE repented - made real life changes F now for 15 years I have been on the path! Was I saved and heaven bound for the entire A through F duration? I don't think so.
    Only you and God know the answer to that, Franklin.Salvation:A going to an altar means nothingB making life changes ...changes nothing/ baptism saves nobody/ reading your Bible is something one is required to do but still has nothing to do with one's actual salvation/praying alone does not save you eitherC bad choices....everyone makes themD sin is a sin no matter the sizeE repentance is a part of salvationF following the correct path is great, but have you reached the end result?Again, only you and God can answer your question about your salvation...any one can make assumptions.Are you saved now? If you truly admitted to God and repented of your sin, and prayed and asked God to forgive you and you believe that He did so, then my assumption would be that you are saved, but again only two people are privy to the truth of that information.If you are saved now, you are saved forever, no matter what sin you commit from now own. It's a one time deal. It is everlasting, eternal.
     
  9. Beano

    Beano New Member

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    Romans 11:21: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 022: Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. When your heart is for God you believe that nothing will separate from His love and quite rightly so, but beware if you fall away and stay contrary to the Lords will I believe even your salvation will be in Question. This is what I now believe.Kevin
     
  10. ForYou

    ForYou New Member

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    (forgivenWretch;41432)
    Only you and God know the answer to that, Franklin.Salvation:A going to an altar means nothingB making life changes ...changes nothing/ baptism saves nobody/ reading your Bible is something one is required to do but still has nothing to do with one's actual salvation/praying alone does not save you eitherC bad choices....everyone makes themD sin is a sin no matter the sizeE repentance is a part of salvationF following the correct path is great, but have you reached the end result?Again, only you and God can answer your question about your salvation...any one can make assumptions.Are you saved now? If you truly admitted to God and repented of your sin, and prayed and asked God to forgive you and you believe that He did so, then my assumption would be that you are saved, but again only two people are privy to the truth of that information.If you are saved now, you are saved forever, no matter what sin you commit from now own. It's a one time deal. It is everlasting, eternal.
    "F following the correct path is great, but have you reached the end result?"I do not think I could ever reach an end result. Why because my path,the way to God is an everyday thing,we can not say one day we reached the end result (Unless of course we are dead but then when we go up we still serve the Lord) So the end in my mind is death,but only to a certain point because once in heaven you still praise God!!! [​IMG]
     
  11. ncsojourner

    ncsojourner New Member

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    Yes, it is possible.In vs 6, the words, "If they shall fall away...", would be read literally in the Greek as, "and have fallen away"Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. In vs 29, the Greek word translated, "trodden under foot", is a very strong term and conveys the sense of out rage involved in forsaking Christ and returning to Judaism. Or, possibly in this day and age, to what is referred toas judeo-Christianity.Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite [insult] unto the Spirit of grace?
     
  12. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    Lets look at a few passages Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. I Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace These are just a few that stress the importance of not losing your salvation
     
  13. Abdul Dawood

    Abdul Dawood New Member

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    Hallo. The reply which I am posting below is the same which I posted to someone else who asked whether we could lose our salvation or be 'un-saved' I suppose.John 10:28-29I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.That seems pretty definitive to me.
     
  14. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    I would agree that Satan cannot snatch us out of the hands of God - But...(Revelation 2:5) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
     
  15. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    If I could possibly cit another example of such verbiage Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angelsThis implies your name can be in fact blotted out, and Sardis was in danger of such as action. In fact there was a call to repentance for many had defiled their garments Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.-again he is talking to the CHURCH (which is not a building but the people) - They were going to be spewed from the body of Christ - or taken out of itRevelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this booktaken out of the book of life? You can only be taken out if you at one time were in it!
    • blot out his name out of the book of life
    • I will spue thee out of my mouth
    • God shall take away his part out of the book of life
    These seem pretty concrete to me.
     
  16. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    Dont forget this text as well Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace ye are fallen from grace
     
  17. Abdul Dawood

    Abdul Dawood New Member

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    Hallo Turtle Franklin,First just in case anybody does not already know:Revelation 2 is a letter to the the church in Ephesus. The first couple of verses clarify who it was written to, then establishing Jesus as the head of all churches (the verse about holding the seven stars). Then the letter praises those at Ephesus for their perseverance and to all outward eyes it appeared that the church was strong. But then we get to verse 4 which states:Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.Notice that the word here used is 'left' not 'lost'. Also, since you are using the NKJ version, that is the one I am using too for clarity.The distinction between leaving and losing is important. Something can be lost quite by accident, but leaving is a deliberate act, though it may not happen suddenly. As well, when we lose something we don’t know where to find it, but when we leave something, we know where to find it.So what did they lose then? As Christians, we are told to love God and one another. The church at Ephesus probably lost the excitement and love both at the same time. The Ephesian church was a working church, and perhaps their works eclipsed the deep relationship with Jesus that they should have been seeking. This leads us into verse 5 which you quoted here. What does Jesus mean when he says "Remember therefore from where you have fallen"?It is this:This means remembering where they used to be in their love for the Lord and for one another and not just focus on doing works.Then he tells them to repent. He wants them to change the direction in which they are going and turn back to the basics of Christianity. Then he says: Do the first worksWhat are the first works?To remember to spend time in his wordTo remember to pray diligentlyTo remember to get excited about telling others about JesusSo anyways, I am not so sure that Jesus is telling them that they are lost, but merely that they need to remember to go back to the basics and remember to not get caught up in being an organization doing works, but an extension of the body of Christ.Wow Franklin, hahaha, before I had even typed out my first reply, you already cited more verses.I am going to read them now and give a reply, but it may take a couple minutes.
     
  18. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    Thanks Bro Consider for a moment - Do men really lose their wives? No, they know where they are, but many times they leave them. This would be a more appropriate wording. I sincerely believe that we as believers/Christians - can walk away from God, from salvation. Its not so much that we got lost - as we left our first love, we left our relationship, we walked away... That is the whole idea of apostasy... Or to turn away from the truth/not endure sound doctrine/believe the lie/turn unto fables... These are all examples of individuals turning to another, in effect leaving God, and leaving the covenant relationship.
     
  19. Franklin

    Franklin New Member

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    (Abdul Dawood;41494)
    Hallo Turtle Franklin,I am going to read them now and give a reply, but it may take a couple minutes.
    Great Bro - I'll wait for you, thanks for taking the time, I am interested in your thoughts!
     
  20. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    (Dukester;41457)
    "F following the correct path is great, but have you reached the end result?"I do not think I could ever reach an end result. Why because my path,the way to God is an everyday thing,we can not say one day we reached the end result (Unless of course we are dead but then when we go up we still serve the Lord) So the end in my mind is death,but only to a certain point because once in heaven you still praise God!!! [​IMG]
    Ok, fair enough...let me try to rephrase, and try to explain hopefully somewhat better...1. Non-Christian following the path2. Christian following the pathAs a Christian, I 100% agree that we as Christains can not nor will not ever reach on this earth an end result (as in our striving to be like God, but we as Christians upon our salvation have reached the goal or end result of knowing without a doubt that no matter what sin we commit we will spend eternity in heaven with God our Father. My point to Franklin was geared towards non-Christians. They may follow the path for ever but unless they have accepted Christ personally, then their only end result will be eternal death in Hell.God gave us a gift! All we have to do is to accept it! If we do not, then we will pay the price! It matters nothing what we do, have good we try to be, if we do not accept His gift (which is everlasting life in heaven with God) we will perish in hell and it's torment!
     
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