CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
1,452
327
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The 6th chapter of Hebrews has posed numerous problems in understanding just who is being referenced; as well as the meaning of being unable to be
renewed again to repentance.

The book of Hebrews presents the deity and the preeminence of the Lord Jesus Christ.


My understanding is that the book of Hebrews is written to the believing remnant of Israel. It is written for them in two different time settings. The first setting is when they are scattered following the persecution.

"And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles." Acts 8:1

The second is in the future, the last days or the tribulation period.

"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:2


This book exhorts the Jewish believers to remain steadfast and to grow in the faith.


The book of Hebrews establishes the Lord Jesus as The High Priest:


"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:17


The believers are urged to take heed from departing from the living God due to unbelief.


They were urged to labor to enter into the promise of rest from their own works, not to fall from unbelief, and to hold fast their profession:


"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Hebrews 4:14


The scripture establishes Christ Jesus as being:


"Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
Hebrews 5:10

The scripture is chiding the believers for being immature in the faith and prompting them toward maturity. The writer is conveying that he would like to expand on this Melchisedec of the past, and how he portrays truth in regard to the priestly capacity of the Lord Jesus:


"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is ababe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Hebrews 5:11-14

The writer of Hebrews now exhorts the readers to go onto perfection:


"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto
perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of thedead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit." Hebrews 6:1-3

"For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame."
Hebrews 6:4-6

If those fall away in unbelief it is impossible to renew them again to repentance seeing they crucify the Son of God afresh by reverting back to the old priesthood and Levitical system of sacrifice.

The Old Testament sacrificial system was a figure, or type of the Lord Jesus and his perfect sacrifice. By adherence to the old priesthood and offering animal sacrifice they are crucifying The Lord Jesus afresh; in essence this is shaming him and the efficacy of the once and for all sacrifice of himself. The context of the text places "those" who fall away in contrast to "us", which remain steadfast in regard to their profession of faith and moving toward perfection.

The letter to the Hebrews will expand on the principles that will prompt the
Hebrews to cease the backslide of adherence to Levitical sacrifice. The doctrine will dictate the necessity for the Hebrews to grasp: the purpose of the Levitical priesthood; the priesthood of the Lord Jesus; the assurance of holding fast their profession of faith; the right perspective on persecution; the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ Jesus; the severity of disregard for the blood of Christ; the receiving of the promises and blessings.

The following verses will illustrate these doctrines and show that the understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 presented is in context and accord with the theme and purpose of this book.

Following we have the warning for falling away.


"For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned." Hebrews 6:7-8

So much better is the consolation:


"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak." Hebrews 6:9

The desire is for the Hebrews to be diligent followers laboring in love toward God and the saints; to come to full assurance as a product of such obedient labor, and to obtain the promises through faith:


"And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full
assurance of hope unto the end:
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience
inherit the promises." Hebrews 6:11-12

The promises of God are sure; resting on past and continual fulfillment. God has laid the foundation of the assurance of his promises by his oath: by two immutable things, the blessing and the multiplying sworn to Abraham. Christ Jesus has entered into the holiest within the veil as the forerunner : a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec:


"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife.
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the
immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we
might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, [even] Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec." Hebrews 6:13-20

Perfection is not obtained by the Levitical priesthood:


"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?"
Hebrews 7:11

The Levitical priesthood was made after the law, but Melchisedec after a lively priesthood; to whom Levi paid tithes while in the loins of Abraham. This better hope gives the means to draw near unto God:


"And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the
weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God." Hebrews 7:15-19

The Lord Jesus ensures a better testament: arising by oath as a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec:


"By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." Hebrews 7:22

The Hebrews are exhorted to remain steadfast in Christ Jesus, who living forever, has an unchangeable priesthood; unlike the Levitical priesthood which had a succession of priests by reason of death. Christ Jesus, a High priest who needed not to offer sacrifices often; for this he did once by the sacrifice of himself:


"But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore."
Hebrews 7:24-28

The Hebrews are urged to have full assurance and reliance on Christ Jesus; the High Priest in the heavens:


"Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;"
Hebrews 8:1
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The 6th chapter of Hebrews has posed numerous problems in understanding just who is being referenced; as well as the meaning of being unable to be
renewed again to repentance.

The book of Hebrews presents the deity and the preeminence of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My understanding is that the book of Hebrews is written to the believing remnant of Israel. It is written for them in two different time settings. The first setting is when they are scattered following the persecution.

"And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles." Acts 8:1

The second is in the future, the last days or the tribulation period.

"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:2

This book exhorts the Jewish believers to remain steadfast and to grow in the faith.

The book of Hebrews establishes the Lord Jesus as The High Priest:

"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:17

The believers are urged to take heed from departing from the living God due to unbelief.

They were urged to labor to enter into the promise of rest from their own works, not to fall from unbelief, and to hold fast their profession:

"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Hebrews 4:14

The scripture establishes Christ Jesus as being:

"Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
Hebrews 5:10

The scripture is chiding the believers for being immature in the faith and prompting them toward maturity. The writer is conveying that he would like to expand on this Melchisedec of the past, and how he portrays truth in regard to the priestly capacity of the Lord Jesus:

"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is ababe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Hebrews 5:11-14

The writer of Hebrews now exhorts the readers to go onto perfection:

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto
perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of thedead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit." Hebrews 6:1-3

"For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame."
Hebrews 6:4-6

If those fall away in unbelief it is impossible to renew them again to repentance seeing they crucify the Son of God afresh by reverting back to the old priesthood and Levitical system of sacrifice.

The Old Testament sacrificial system was a figure, or type of the Lord Jesus and his perfect sacrifice. By adherence to the old priesthood and offering animal sacrifice they are crucifying The Lord Jesus afresh; in essence this is shaming him and the efficacy of the once and for all sacrifice of himself. The context of the text places "those" who fall away in contrast to "us", which remain steadfast in regard to their profession of faith and moving toward perfection.

The letter to the Hebrews will expand on the principles that will prompt the
Hebrews to cease the backslide of adherence to Levitical sacrifice. The doctrine will dictate the necessity for the Hebrews to grasp: the purpose of the Levitical priesthood; the priesthood of the Lord Jesus; the assurance of holding fast their profession of faith; the right perspective on persecution; the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ Jesus; the severity of disregard for the blood of Christ; the receiving of the promises and blessings.

The following verses will illustrate these doctrines and show that the understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 presented is in context and accord with the theme and purpose of this book.

Following we have the warning for falling away.

"For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned." Hebrews 6:7-8

So much better is the consolation:

"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak." Hebrews 6:9

The desire is for the Hebrews to be diligent followers laboring in love toward God and the saints; to come to full assurance as a product of such obedient labor, and to obtain the promises through faith:


"And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full
assurance of hope unto the end:
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience
inherit the promises." Hebrews 6:11-12

The promises of God are sure; resting on past and continual fulfillment. God has laid the foundation of the assurance of his promises by his oath: by two immutable things, the blessing and the multiplying sworn to Abraham. Christ Jesus has entered into the holiest within the veil as the forerunner : a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec:

"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?"
Hebrews 7:11

The Levitical priesthood was made after the law, but Melchisedec after a lively priesthood; to whom Levi paid tithes while in the loins of Abraham. This better hope gives the means to draw near unto God:

Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore."
Hebrews 7:24-28

The Hebrews are urged to have full assurance and reliance on Christ Jesus; the High Priest in the heavens:

"Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;"
Hebrews 8:1
If you believe that a born again person cannot fall away and be lost - then please explain the following excerpt to me from the Book of Hebrews - because NOBODY here has been able to do so . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth
, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

This same "Epignosis" is written about in the following passage:
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.


Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.


 
  • Like
Reactions: Marymog

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,806
25,450
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The 6th chapter of Hebrews has posed numerous problems in understanding just who is being referenced; as well as the meaning of being unable to be
renewed again to repentance.

The book of Hebrews presents the deity and the preeminence of the Lord Jesus Christ.


My understanding is that the book of Hebrews is written to the believing remnant of Israel. It is written for them in two different time settings. The first setting is when they are scattered following the persecution.

"And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles." Acts 8:1

The second is in the future, the last days or the tribulation period.

"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:2


This book exhorts the Jewish believers to remain steadfast and to grow in the faith.


The book of Hebrews establishes the Lord Jesus as The High Priest:


"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:17


The believers are urged to take heed from departing from the living God due to unbelief.


They were urged to labor to enter into the promise of rest from their own works, not to fall from unbelief, and to hold fast their profession:


"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Hebrews 4:14


The scripture establishes Christ Jesus as being:


"Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
Hebrews 5:10

The scripture is chiding the believers for being immature in the faith and prompting them toward maturity. The writer is conveying that he would like to expand on this Melchisedec of the past, and how he portrays truth in regard to the priestly capacity of the Lord Jesus:


"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is ababe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Hebrews 5:11-14

The writer of Hebrews now exhorts the readers to go onto perfection:


"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto
perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of thedead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit." Hebrews 6:1-3

"For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame."
Hebrews 6:4-6

If those fall away in unbelief it is impossible to renew them again to repentance seeing they crucify the Son of God afresh by reverting back to the old priesthood and Levitical system of sacrifice.

The Old Testament sacrificial system was a figure, or type of the Lord Jesus and his perfect sacrifice. By adherence to the old priesthood and offering animal sacrifice they are crucifying The Lord Jesus afresh; in essence this is shaming him and the efficacy of the once and for all sacrifice of himself. The context of the text places "those" who fall away in contrast to "us", which remain steadfast in regard to their profession of faith and moving toward perfection.

The letter to the Hebrews will expand on the principles that will prompt the
Hebrews to cease the backslide of adherence to Levitical sacrifice. The doctrine will dictate the necessity for the Hebrews to grasp: the purpose of the Levitical priesthood; the priesthood of the Lord Jesus; the assurance of holding fast their profession of faith; the right perspective on persecution; the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ Jesus; the severity of disregard for the blood of Christ; the receiving of the promises and blessings.

The following verses will illustrate these doctrines and show that the understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 presented is in context and accord with the theme and purpose of this book.

Following we have the warning for falling away.


"For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned." Hebrews 6:7-8

So much better is the consolation:


"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak." Hebrews 6:9

The desire is for the Hebrews to be diligent followers laboring in love toward God and the saints; to come to full assurance as a product of such obedient labor, and to obtain the promises through faith:


"And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full
assurance of hope unto the end:
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience
inherit the promises." Hebrews 6:11-12

The promises of God are sure; resting on past and continual fulfillment. God has laid the foundation of the assurance of his promises by his oath: by two immutable things, the blessing and the multiplying sworn to Abraham. Christ Jesus has entered into the holiest within the veil as the forerunner : a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec:


"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife.
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the
immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we
might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, [even] Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec." Hebrews 6:13-20

Perfection is not obtained by the Levitical priesthood:


"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?"
Hebrews 7:11

The Levitical priesthood was made after the law, but Melchisedec after a lively priesthood; to whom Levi paid tithes while in the loins of Abraham. This better hope gives the means to draw near unto God:


"And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the
weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God." Hebrews 7:15-19

The Lord Jesus ensures a better testament: arising by oath as a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec:


"By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." Hebrews 7:22

The Hebrews are exhorted to remain steadfast in Christ Jesus, who living forever, has an unchangeable priesthood; unlike the Levitical priesthood which had a succession of priests by reason of death. Christ Jesus, a High priest who needed not to offer sacrifices often; for this he did once by the sacrifice of himself:


"But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore."
Hebrews 7:24-28

The Hebrews are urged to have full assurance and reliance on Christ Jesus; the High Priest in the heavens:


"Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;"
Hebrews 8:1

Welcome Doug. Excellent post...The books of Hebrews and Romans happen to be my favorite books.
God bless,
-nancy
 
  • Like
Reactions: aspen

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
My understanding is that the book of Hebrews is written to the believing remnant of Israel.

Hi Doug. The book of Hebrews was actually written to believers in Christ and believing Israel, thus the words "brothers and sisters" are mentioned seven times in this book. Hebrews is a book of encouragement for the believer.

Notice that Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-27 are a cross reference for the crucifixion of Christ. These passages are simply using figurative language to describe the maturity of believers in Christ. Not many understand that Heb 6 actually begins at Heb 5:11.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Heb 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

God bless
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken and Helen

soul man

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,570
1,738
113
66
Fletcher
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The 6th chapter of Hebrews has posed numerous problems in understanding just who is being referenced; as well as the meaning of being unable to be
renewed again to repentance.

The book of Hebrews presents the deity and the preeminence of the Lord Jesus Christ.


My understanding is that the book of Hebrews is written to the believing remnant of Israel. It is written for them in two different time settings. The first setting is when they are scattered following the persecution.

"And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles." Acts 8:1

The second is in the future, the last days or the tribulation period.

"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:2


This book exhorts the Jewish believers to remain steadfast and to grow in the faith.


The book of Hebrews establishes the Lord Jesus as The High Priest:


"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:17


The believers are urged to take heed from departing from the living God due to unbelief.


They were urged to labor to enter into the promise of rest from their own works, not to fall from unbelief, and to hold fast their profession:


"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Hebrews 4:14


The scripture establishes Christ Jesus as being:


"Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
Hebrews 5:10

The scripture is chiding the believers for being immature in the faith and prompting them toward maturity. The writer is conveying that he would like to expand on this Melchisedec of the past, and how he portrays truth in regard to the priestly capacity of the Lord Jesus:


"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is ababe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Hebrews 5:11-14

The writer of Hebrews now exhorts the readers to go onto perfection:


"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto
perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of thedead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit." Hebrews 6:1-3

"For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame."
Hebrews 6:4-6

If those fall away in unbelief it is impossible to renew them again to repentance seeing they crucify the Son of God afresh by reverting back to the old priesthood and Levitical system of sacrifice.

The Old Testament sacrificial system was a figure, or type of the Lord Jesus and his perfect sacrifice. By adherence to the old priesthood and offering animal sacrifice they are crucifying The Lord Jesus afresh; in essence this is shaming him and the efficacy of the once and for all sacrifice of himself. The context of the text places "those" who fall away in contrast to "us", which remain steadfast in regard to their profession of faith and moving toward perfection.

The letter to the Hebrews will expand on the principles that will prompt the
Hebrews to cease the backslide of adherence to Levitical sacrifice. The doctrine will dictate the necessity for the Hebrews to grasp: the purpose of the Levitical priesthood; the priesthood of the Lord Jesus; the assurance of holding fast their profession of faith; the right perspective on persecution; the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ Jesus; the severity of disregard for the blood of Christ; the receiving of the promises and blessings.

The following verses will illustrate these doctrines and show that the understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 presented is in context and accord with the theme and purpose of this book.

Following we have the warning for falling away.


"For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned." Hebrews 6:7-8

So much better is the consolation:


"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak." Hebrews 6:9

The desire is for the Hebrews to be diligent followers laboring in love toward God and the saints; to come to full assurance as a product of such obedient labor, and to obtain the promises through faith:


"And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full
assurance of hope unto the end:
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience
inherit the promises." Hebrews 6:11-12

The promises of God are sure; resting on past and continual fulfillment. God has laid the foundation of the assurance of his promises by his oath: by two immutable things, the blessing and the multiplying sworn to Abraham. Christ Jesus has entered into the holiest within the veil as the forerunner : a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec:


"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife.
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the
immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we
might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, [even] Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec." Hebrews 6:13-20

Perfection is not obtained by the Levitical priesthood:


"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?"
Hebrews 7:11

The Levitical priesthood was made after the law, but Melchisedec after a lively priesthood; to whom Levi paid tithes while in the loins of Abraham. This better hope gives the means to draw near unto God:


"And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the
weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God." Hebrews 7:15-19

The Lord Jesus ensures a better testament: arising by oath as a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec:


"By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." Hebrews 7:22

The Hebrews are exhorted to remain steadfast in Christ Jesus, who living forever, has an unchangeable priesthood; unlike the Levitical priesthood which had a succession of priests by reason of death. Christ Jesus, a High priest who needed not to offer sacrifices often; for this he did once by the sacrifice of himself:


"But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore."
Hebrews 7:24-28

The Hebrews are urged to have full assurance and reliance on Christ Jesus; the High Priest in the heavens:


"Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;"
Hebrews 8:1

Nice post, well said.
 

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The 6th chapter of Hebrews has posed numerous problems in understanding just who is being referenced; as well as the meaning of being unable to be
renewed again to repentance.

The Hebrews are urged to have full assurance and reliance on Christ Jesus; the High Priest in the heavens:

"Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;"
Hebrews 8:1

Hebrews 6th chapter is testifying to when one is born again of the Spirit, they cannot be unborn from the Spirit to need to be born again of the Spirit. When one falls away, they just need to repent in going back to leaning on Him for help in laying aside every weight & sin in heading towards perfection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: soul man and Nancy

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you believe that a born again person cannot fall away and be lost - then please explain the following excerpt to me from the Book of Hebrews - because NOBODY here has been able to do so . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth
, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.


Actually, Hebrews 10:26-27 is taken out of context. The knowledge of the truth is about knowing that there is no more sacrifice for sins, but sin as if there is still necessity to receive that sacrifice for sins "again".

That applies to making that one time sacrifice for sins present to be received again in the Mass.

That does not necessarily testified to loss of salvation because it is written for those Catholics and others that treat His blood as being on par with the blood of goats and bulls that it bears repeating thus mistreating His blood of the Covenant, that God will judge "His People" which means Catholics are still saved as they are His people.

Since it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God, it is not too late for Catholics to leave the Catholic Church and the Mass within, but once the Bridegroom comes.... then those left behind will become vessels unto dishonor in His House, but they are still in His House. So do heed the call to repent today, brother.

This same "Epignosis" is written about in the following passage:
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.


Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.


Not their salvation, but losing the rewards of crowns and the losing out on being received as a vessel unto honor in His House, thus becoming a castaway in becoming a vessel unto dishonor in His House to not attend the Supper in His honor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you believe that a born again person cannot fall away and be lost - then please explain the following excerpt to me from the Book of Hebrews - because NOBODY here has been able to do so . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth
, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation.

***
I can explain it but you will most likely not believe it because you want it to mean only what you think it means to further your religious beliefs. You look for the meaning to be that you have to earn your salvation by what you do in your religion. You refuse to believe and trust in God's works to save mankind.

If you follow the context you find that all that is being discussed is the sin of unbelief; unbelief in the sacrificial blood of Jesus and His position as High Priest.

That is why it says there is no longer a sacrifice. If a person does not accept Jesus' sacrifice then there is no longer any sacrifice available to save them. The only sin that condemns a person today under grace is the sin of unbelief; unbelief in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross.

Only those that have come to the point of knowing they are sinners in the flesh and that they can not save themselves by what they do will come to Jesus (God) and His work on the cross. These know, trust, believe, have confidence, have faith in His work because they KNOW they are lost without it. Knowing that they are lost without Him is not going away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken and Nancy

H. Richard

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
2,345
852
113
Southeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you believe that a born again person cannot fall away and be lost - then please explain the following excerpt to me from the Book of Hebrews - because NOBODY here has been able to do so . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth
, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

This same "Epignosis" is written about in the following passage:
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.


Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.



***
No one that is saved can ever fall away because of sins of the flesh. Why? Because they believe, have faith in, trust in, have confidence in the fact that Jesus has already paid for all the sins of the world on the cross.

The way I know that the RCC is the anti-christ is that their religion states that a person must go to a Priest, confess their sins and the Priest will tell them what they must do in order to pay for their sin.

That is totally against Jesus because He shed His blood on a cross to pay for all the sins of the world and that includes ALL OF THEM and here is a Priest telling this person that they must pay for it again. That totally ignores what Jesus did on the cross and is therefore anti-christ and a slam in Jesus' face. It plainly teaches that Jesus' shed blood did not do anything. I hope you can see this in the future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken and Nancy

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Actually, Hebrews 10:26-27 is taken out of context. The knowledge of the truth is about knowing that there is no more sacrifice for sins, but sin as if there is still necessity to receive that sacrifice for sins "again".

That applies to making that one time sacrifice for sins present to be received again in the Mass.

That does not necessarily testified to loss of salvation because it is written for those Catholics and others that treat His blood as being on par with the blood of goats and bulls that it bears repeating thus mistreating His blood of the Covenant, that God will judge "His People" which means Catholics are still saved as they are His people.

Since it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God, it is not too late for Catholics to leave the Catholic Church and the Mass within, but once the Bridegroom comes.... then those left behind will become vessels unto dishonor in His House, but they are still in His House. So do heed the call to repent today, brother.

WRONG.
Epignosis is NOT simply knowing (oida).
That's the thing that you guys keep denying and dancing around.

It is a full, experiential knowledge of Christ - not unlike the consummation of a marriage between a husband and wife. It's FAR more intimate than simple knowledge . . .

Not their salvation, but losing the rewards of crowns and the losing out on being received as a vessel unto honor in His House, thus becoming a castaway in becoming a vessel unto dishonor in His House to not attend the Supper in His honor.
This is nonsense.

The phrase that destroys your entire argument here - aside from "Epignosis" is:
- "their last condition is worse than their first."

This is absolutely about a loss of salvation.
How could your NOT knowing the way of righteousness simply be about "rewards and crowns"??
NOT knowing Christ is being LOST.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
***
No one that is saved can ever fall away because of sins of the flesh. Why? Because they believe, have faith in, trust in, have confidence in the fact that Jesus has already paid for all the sins of the world on the cross.

The way I know that the RCC is the anti-christ is that their religion states that a person must go to a Priest, confess their sins and the Priest will tell them what they must do in order to pay for their sin.

That is totally against Jesus because He shed His blood on a cross to pay for all the sins of the world and that includes ALL OF THEM and here is a Priest telling this person that they must pay for it again. That totally ignores what Jesus did on the cross and is therefore anti-christ and a slam in Jesus' face. It plainly teaches that Jesus' shed blood did not do anything. I hope you can see this in the future.
Your statement in RED alone shows a deep and crushing ignorance.
You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. On the other hand - you may just be lying - but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that WE can "pay" for our sins. That's not what penance is about.
The Church has ALWAYS taught that those sins were paid for on Calvary. In fact - it was the Catholic Church who taught this lesson to the WORLD with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I strongly suggest that you skim through the Catechism of the Catholic Church before responding because this kind of ignorant post is just embarrassing . . .
 

twinc

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2011
1,593
265
83
93
Faith
Country
United Kingdom
Your statement in RED alone shows a deep and crushing ignorance.
You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. On the other hand - you may just be lying - but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that WE can "pay" for our sins. That's not what penance is about.
The Church has ALWAYS taught that those sins were paid for on Calvary. In fact - it was the Catholic Church who taught this lesson to the WORLD with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I strongly suggest that you skim through the Catechism of the Catholic Church before responding because this kind of ignorant post is just embarrassing . . .







all this and much else is much too much ado and nonsense when all that is required is your answer to whether the saviour of the world has failed is failing and will fail since some would have us accept that some children of God are already in hell and some well on the way via the broad road - twinc
 

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
WRONG.
Epignosis is NOT simply knowing (oida).
That's the thing that you guys keep denying and dancing around.

It is a full, experiential knowledge of Christ - not unlike the consummation of a marriage between a husband and wife. It's FAR more intimate than simple knowledge . . .


Careful, brother, the same can be said about you. That whole chapter was comparing the old way in receiving sacrifices for sins of the blood of goats and bulls which bears repeating for the offender was different under the new in that there is only one time sacrifice for sins whereby the Holy Ghost is a witness why there is no more necessity to receive another sacrifice for sins.

The Mass says otherwise for why His one time sacrifice for sins is being made present in the Mass so it can be received again as if the first time was not good enough, thus putting His blood on par with the blood of goats and bulls. That, brother, is asking for a comeuppance from the Lord when having knowledge that there is no more sacrifice for sin and yet the saved believer sins by acting as if there still is necessity to receive another sacrifice for sins.

This is nonsense.

The phrase that destroys your entire argument here - aside from "Epignosis" is:
- "their last condition is worse than their first."

This is absolutely about a loss of salvation.

No, it is not, since it is referring to the saved believer's corrupted state while still on this earth in comparing it to former sinful state before he was saved.

How could your NOT knowing the way of righteousness simply be about "rewards and crowns"??

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 shares the other consequence other than the loss of rewards of crowns and that is becoming a castaway.

knowing Christ is being LOST.

One who has never believed in Him were already condemned as John 3:18 testify of, but once that sinner believes in Him, he is saved, that foundation is laid down by Jesus Christ; that seal of adoption given so we can call God Father, is forever. So although we will be judged by what we build on that foundation, those who defile the temple of God and are still in that unrepentant state when the Bridegroom comes, they will be cast away to the bed of the great tribulation where their temple which is their body, will be destroyed; hence physical death. Compare 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 to 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 please, and may the Lord show you that just as the church excommunicate for that purpose, so will the Bridegroom when He comes.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Careful, brother, the same can be said about you. That whole chapter was comparing the old way in receiving sacrifices for sins of the blood of goats and bulls which bears repeating for the offender was different under the new in that there is only one time sacrifice for sins whereby the Holy Ghost is a witness why there is no more necessity to receive another sacrifice for sins.

The Mass says otherwise for why His one time sacrifice for sins is being made present in the Mass so it can be received again as if the first time was not good enough, thus putting His blood on par with the blood of goats and bulls. That, brother, is asking for a comeuppance from the Lord when having knowledge that there is no more sacrifice for sin and yet the saved believer sins by acting as if there still is necessity to receive another sacrifice for sins.

This is absolute nonsense and shows a complete ignorance of what the Mass is.
the Mass isn't a "repeat performance" of Calvary. We are brought to Calvary at each Mass because Jesus's sacrifice is an ETERNAL one (Heb. 7:25, Rev. 13:8).

No, it is not, since it is referring to the saved believer's corrupted state while still on this earth in comparing it to former sinful state before he was saved.
Once again . . .
- "their last condition is worse than their first."

By falling BACK into sin - a believer is in WORSE shape than when he was UNCONVERTED because at least, the unconverted man is blind to the truth.

John 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

This is absolutely about a loss of salvation.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27 shares the other consequence other than the loss of rewards of crowns and that is becoming a castaway.
That DOESN'T answer my question.
How could your NOT knowing the way of righteousness simply be about "rewards and crowns"??
 

Dcopymope

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2016
2,650
800
113
36
Motor City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"CAN WE FALL AWAY ?"

Yes...how many times are people going to keep asking the same questions?? As far as I recall in scripture, God promised to never forsake you, but that doesn't mean you can't forsake him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,826
3,157
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you believe that a born again person cannot fall away and be lost - then please explain the following excerpt to me from the Book of Hebrews - because NOBODY here has been able to do so . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth
, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

This same "Epignosis" is written about in the following passage:
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.


Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.


Yes these are the 'go to' verses to get the believers back into a fallen state. Makes me want to ask the question, who here has not deliberately sinned after becoming a Christian?

(Heb. 10:26-27) is understood when you recognize there is no other sacrifice than Jesus Christ. Contrary to the sacrifices of the Old Testament which had to be brought continually. See (Heb. 10:18) The sin spoken of here is the going back to the Mosaic system and forsaking the assembly of Christians. The believer does come under the judgement of God here, but it is not a loss of salvation. Note it says in (10:27), "which shall destroy the adversaries." Not the believer, but that which is destroying the believer.

(2 Peter 2:20-22) is all about false teachers. They were never saved. Their nature never changed. The dog and sow were cleaned up but their nature never changed. No loss of salvation here.

The loss of salvation is a tool used by many to threaten believers with in hopes that it keeps them in line. They do not trust the Holy Spirit in giving them and keeping them in the liberty they have in Christ.

Stranger
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is absolute nonsense and shows a complete ignorance of what the Mass is.
the Mass isn't a "repeat performance" of Calvary. We are brought to Calvary at each Mass because Jesus's sacrifice is an ETERNAL one (Heb. 7:25, Rev. 13:8).


An eternal one to be received again is a repeat performance. No matter how you slice it, those under the old system of goats and bulls are "receiving" sacrifices for sins "again" just as the Catholics are receiving the eternal sacrifice made "present" again in the Mass to "receive again".


Once again . . .
- "their last condition is worse than their first."

By falling BACK into sin - a believer is in WORSE shape than when he was UNCONVERTED because at least, the unconverted man is blind to the truth.

So basically, any Catholic sinning again is unsaved. Your argument makes the confessional booths invalid, right? See how applying scripture in the wrong way can oppose scripture plainly stated otherwise elsewhere?

John 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

This is absolutely about a loss of salvation.

How do you apply these verses below?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That DOESN'T answer my question.
How could your NOT knowing the way of righteousness simply be about "rewards and crowns"??

How can you not see you are opposing yourself for being in the Catholic Church when obviously it is clouding your reading His words to mean?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Triumph1300

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2018
4,211
4,962
113
Northern British Columbia, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Then you don't fully understand religion

Well, it's difficult to believe that there are born again, Spirit filled, Christians in the church using such a tool.

My reply to your comment is : "That's ok, I don't need to understand "religion".

As long as I know what Christianity is all about and what was done by Christ at the cross.

I'm doing just fine without religion.

I don't need your r e l i g i o n.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and Helen