Can you find the Church during the trumpets ?

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Martin W.

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Jan 16, 2009
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The 144,000 are sealed 1/3 of mankind has been killed2/3 of mankind have not repented.If the church is not here during the seven trumpets by the seven angels , I allow the possibility that Jesus has already translated it and met it in the clouds in the air to be with him forever.Here is how every single person is accounted for during the time of the seven trumpets:(The 144000 from the 12 tribes are sealed and cannot be harmed. They are here during the trumpets.)When the sixth angel sounds his trumpet a third of mankind is killed. That leaves two thirds of mankind still alive .The rest of mankind (the remaining two thirds) that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts. (This is not the church...The church is not here)This is one of the many reasons I allow the possibility that Jesus Christ has removed his church in advance of the great tribulation.Best regardsMartin WMy next post I will cut and paste the verses to save you looking them up. I ask everyone to try find the church during the trumpets.
 

Martin W.

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Jan 16, 2009
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Winnipeg Canada
Revelation 7 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.=================================================(Is this the church?) ........13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?" 14I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.==================================================Revelation 8 6Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them..................13As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, (sounds like everybody) because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"======================================================Revelation 91The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.........17The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. 18A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. 19The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury. 20The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.
 

armourbeaer

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Sep 16, 2009
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Martin W.;73050]Revelation 7 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a [B]seal on the foreheads [/B]of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: [B]144 said:
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.=================================================(Is this the church?) ........13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?" 14I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.==================================================Revelation 8 6Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them..................13As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, (sounds like everybody) because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"======================================================Revelation 91The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.........17The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. 18A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. 19The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury. 20The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.
4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads
If there are some who don't have the seal of God then it follows logically that there are some who DO have God's seal:Re 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the seaAlso you have forgotten about the saints...or don't you consider a 'saint' a member of the 'church?'Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.Rev. 13:6 And he (antichrist)opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.7 And it was given unto him (antichrist) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.Rev. 14:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
 

Martin W.

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Jan 16, 2009
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SwampFox;73054]Instead of a regurgitation of this issue from another thread said:
http://www.christianityboard.com/showthread.php?t=10706&page=5[/URL]
I am completely aware of that Denver. Thanks.But I repeat my original question ..... where is the Church during the trumpets? It is absent in this accounting of everybody on earth.1/3 have been killed on earth.2/3 have not repented.The 144,0000 are accounted for.Little roadblocks like this should make us question where the Church is. We are not told , of course , but it can cause us to consider the possibility that the Church has been removed. That is the point.None of us know absolutely for certain. None of us. We must be very careful not to pick a doctrine that excludes all other possibilities.Yet we should be prepared for all possibilities. As exacting as scripture can be , it still leaves a lot of questions unanswered. I think this uncertainity should cause huge divisions. Not between us , but between the secular world and us. Yet the divisions are within the Christians , something is wrong. My opinion.What is very hard on me is not knowing the answer either. I try to prepare for all the possibilities. The world will be bewildered when the time comes. I hope I am not. I hope we Christians are not. It will be a time of confusion.Best regards.Martin W.
 

gervais

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Aug 3, 2009
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Martin W.;73049 said:
...I ask everyone to try find the church during the trumpets.
Martin, that's not a big problem for me. The people of God are reckoned as the “Church” during the Dispensation of Grace (no Jew nor Greek, etc.) In Revelation John was taken to the Day of the Lord, and is no longer in the Dispensation of Grace but he is in the future Dispensation of Judgment (There IS Jew better Hebrew and Greek). Those peoples that made up the “Church” are then the peoples of the seven Assembly’s. My question for you is, “When does the day begin in God’s calendar? At daybreak or at sunset?”