Can you lose it?

[Behold]

-
Salvation is Jesus on the Cross.
The initial result of being saved, is that Jesus is in You, and you become a "temple of the Holy Spirit".
The final result, until you die, or are Raptured, is that you are born again.

Can you "lose" that?

Listen,

Born again is a "Birth".
Can you lose a birth?

Jesus is joined, spiritually, to the Spirit of a born again believer, whose spirit has been made alive by the Life that is Christ.
Did you do that?
If you did, then you can change it.
If you can't, and you can't......and you are on a Christian forum arguing that you have the power to undo what God has done, or worse, you are trying to deceive believers into thinking they can lose their salvation, then you're a fool.

Listen.

For you to "lose your salvation", you would have to have more power to lose it, then God has to make sure you keep it., as Jesus said the born again shall "Never Perish".
No EXCEPTIONS.
Philippians 1:6
You would have to be more powerful than the Blood of Jesus.
So, if you have spent years trying to convince believers that God can't keep them saved, then you are such an insult to The Cross that its hard to define such a devil.
You dont want to be one of those, and if you are, you should repent and pray for those whom you have deceived.

 

[AceWestfall08]

Are you born again if you ignorantly believe as a child(liked being raised in the church and believe your whole life without a significant "born-again" event?

Some of those people stay in the church....others leave and come back.....others just leave.

They believe.....But what qualifies as "born again".?

 

[Berserk]

The ultimate test case for this question is the most famous ever Canadian evangelist, Chuck Templeton. Chuck's evangelistic crusades won thousands to Christ. He co-founded Youth for Christ, the most effective youth evangelism organization in the the 1950s and 1960s. His prayers once raised a dead man to life. He was a close friend of Billy Graham's and in the early 1950s was considered to have more promise than Billy as a mass evangelist! But Chuck lost his faith when he went to seminary and realized that he could no longer adhere to biblical inerrancy. Tragically, he fell victim to the Dominio theory of biblical inspiration, the theory that if you can't trust every detail of Scripture, you can't trust any of it. When I was in seminary, I heard a tape of one of Chuck's sermons. He preached with great conviction, power, and anointing. How sad that he became an agnostic, who later even attibuted his prayer act of raising the dead to an unknown natural process.

So is the late Chuck Templeton still saved? I don't know and will let God be the judge of that. His intellectual integrity caused him to pay a horrible price for his once stellar reputation among Christians. So I at least give him credit for courage.

 

[Behold]

Are you born again if you ignorantly believe as a child(liked being raised in the church and believe your whole life without a significant "born-again" event?
Some of those people stay in the church....others leave and come back.....others just leave.They believe.....But what qualifies as "born again".?

Going to Church is just, going to church.
Churches are filled with religious but lost people.

However, those who have given GOD their faith in Christ, after hearing the Gospel preached inside a church building, are joined to God's Spirit, as born again, because they have obeyed the Gospel and their "Faith is counted as Righteousness", and they are "Justified by Faith".

 

[Behold]

So is the late Chuck Templeton still saved? .

Well, If Chuck Templeton is born again, then he is born again.
His thought process and his final agnostic mind set can't change his spiritual birth.
He is a "DEMAS"......and there are many of them.

 

[AceWestfall08]

Honestly...I wonder how many people would take the time to develop a relationship if you take eternal life and heaven off the table.

If you did that....I wonder how many people would still be left to seeking and desiring a relationship with God Almighty.

God sees what motivates us and what motivates our beliefs....

 

[Behold]

Honestly...I wonder how many people would take the time to develop a relationship if you take eternal life and heaven off the table.
If you did that....I wonder how many people would still be left to seeking and desiring a relationship with God Almighty.
God sees what motivates us and what motivates our beliefs....

People dont go to the Cross for that reason.
They go there because they realize that they are sinners needing a Savior.
They need forgiveness.

People that came to Jesus, didnt believe in Jesus, so, they were not concerned about "any of that God stuff".

Later, after they turn from their unbelief to Faith in Christ......they learn about it, and then it just gets better.

 

[GEN2REV]

Can you lose it?

Yes, you can.

"He who is IN Christ is a New Creation; the old has gone the new has come." (No question whatsoever this is a believer who has received the gift of faith and has begun following Christ; BORN AGAIN - NO QUESTION)
2 Corinthians 5:17

"Every branch IN ME (Christ) that beareth not fruit, He (the Father) taketh away: ... If a man abide not (does not remain) IN ME (Christ), he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; (and gathered) ... and cast into the fire, and they are burned." (No question whatsoever these individuals were believers IN Christ and followers of Christ (Christians) and they now no longer have salvation - NO QUESTION)
John 15:2
John 15:6

These verses would not exist in Scripture if Salvation could never be lost. Yet, they are there; and they are also written by two different authors.

How 'bout another from yet a third author:

"... it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, that, after they have known it, to turn from the Holy Commandment delivered unto them." (No question whatsoever these are people who have been given the gift of faith, made well aware of the Commandments and believed them and abided in them for a time, then turned from all of it and will now suffer the consequences - NO QUESTION)
2 Peter 2:21

Here, Jesus tells us exactly what becomes of these very individuals, and they are not few at all:

"Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? and in Thy Name have cast out devils? and in Thy Name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
Matthew 7:22-23

These people did not remain IN Christ and He, in turn, did not remain IN THEM. They lived in sin by not obeying His Commandments and thus they worked iniquity (sin) into the society around them by their example of breaking God's Laws.

There's Peter, John and Paul teaching the same Truth.

Can you lose it?

You most certainly can, ... and MANY do.

 

[Behold]

Can you lose it?
Yes, you can.

You can lose it if you can get Christ out of the Born again.
Legalists like you, (so defined by your posts and theology) would think they have this power, as the self righteous like to pretend a lot of things, that being one of them.

So, you think a person, born again, can overcome the blood atonement, and their new birth in Christ, by having a faith crisis.

That's not really cognizant and rational Theology, and it is certainly not united in truth regarding Pauline Theology.
But, it'll do for a cult.

The devil wants you to believe that God can't keep you saved with the Blood of Jesus.
The Devil wants believers to believe that their Eternal Life, isn't really.
But GEN2REV, you already know that, obviously, based on what you post.

 

[GEN2REV]

People that came to Jesus, didnt believe in Jesus

Where do you get this stuff?

You certainly don't get it from Scripture.

Maybe from some of that fancy Seminary education you brag about?

Here's John quoting Jesus; contradicting you yet again:

"No man (NO MAN) can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: ..."
John 6:44

Faith is a gift from God; He chooses who He gives it to. That means He doesn't just give it to anybody and He certainly doesn't give it to everybody. It is not simply a choice that any man makes.

You need to get clear on that, you make these heretical statements repeatedly in all of your threads. And I've corrected you many times now.
Ephesians 2:8

 

[Behold]

Where do you get this stuff?

Y

How is it that everyone here, 97% know that you are a cultist, teaching "twisted", theological ideas, yet, you dont seem to realize it.
Is that because deception has blinded your mind to what you have become?

Listen, Pauline Theology is what i Teach.
Wiki it, and then you'll have a start.

 

[GEN2REV]

You can lose it if you can get Christ out of the Born again.
Legalists like you, (so defined by your posts and theology) would think they have this power, as the self righteous like to pretend a lot of things, that being one of them.

So, you think a person, born again, can overcome the blood atonement, and their new birth in Christ, by having a faith crisis.

That's not really cognizant and rational Theology, and it is certainly not united in truth regarding Pauline Theology.
But, it'll do for a cult.

The devil wants you to believe that God can't keep you saved with the Blood of Jesus.
The Devil wants believers to believe that their Eternal Life, isn't really.
But GEN2REV, you already know that, obviously, based on what you post.

Who do you think is most likely to be taken seriously,

-somebody who uses Scripture to make every single point of their case

-or somebody who just blabbers on and on with their own eisegesis of the way it all works?

Exactly.

You are prideful, arrogant and in love with the idea of yourself.

Certainly not with God and His sacred Word.

 

[Behold]

Who do you think is most likely to be taken seriously,

The person who understands PAUL, and only teaches His Doctrine.
And you'll never understand why i just told you that....
And that is why you can't relate to Pauline Theology, that are all my posts and Threads.
You are in the weeds, theologically, and all you can do is attempt some dumbed down personal attack.
You should send the Mods a check, as they allow you to keep doing it to other members here, as well.
You literally have have nothing else to offer., and that is not going to change., GEN2REV

 

[GEN2REV]

How is it that everyone here, 97% know that you are a cultist, teaching "twisted", theological ideas, yet, you dont seem to realize it.
Is that because deception has blinded your mind to what you have become?

Listen, Pauline Theology is what i Teach.
Wiki it, and then you'll have a start.

Your Pauline Theology is WRONG.

Check it with Scripture.

Sorry about your expensive education down the drain. All you have achieved is to learn how to be right with, and accepted by, men.

God doesn't acknowledge you in the least if you are not in alignment with HIS Word.

 

[Behold]

Your Pauline Theology is WRONG.

Not according to Jesus, who gave it to Paul, who said..>"be a follower of me, as i follow Christ".

Thats me.

That's not you.
Believe it.

 

[GEN2REV]

Not according to Jesus, who gave it to Paul, who said..>"be a follower of me, as i follow Christ".

Thats me.

That's not you.
Believe it.

Really?

You ... might want to check the verses I just used to correct your nonsense. They were quotes from Jesus Christ AS WELL as from Paul.

I think maybe we're in a delusional bubble and we don't like to be told we're not the Billy Graham we like to pretend we are.

It's ok.

I'll pray for you.

 

[Behold]

I'll pray for you.

Thank you.

I need the prayer, and you need the practice.

 

[AceWestfall08]

5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers,c drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.9Do not carry any gold or silver or copper in your belts. 10Take no bag for the road, or second tunic, or sandals, or staff; for the worker is worthy of his provisions.11Whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy there and stay at his housed until you move on. 12As you enter the home, greet its occupants.e 13If the home is worthy, let your peace rest on it; but if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

 

[Nancy]

Just a few...

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Ezekiel 18:24-26
But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die. “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.

Hebrews 10:26-28
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 John 3:6-9
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

2 Timothy 2:11-12
The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

1 John 2:3-4
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

James 5:19-20
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Romans 11:23
And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

Colossians 1:21-23
And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Revelation 3:5
The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels." (be "blotted out"...seems one CAN be taken out of the book of life)

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Hebrews 6:1-20
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, ...

2 Timothy 2:26
And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Matthew 24:13
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Zechariah 1:3
Therefore say to them, Thus declares the Lord of hosts: Return to me, says the Lord of hosts, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts.

Revelation 2:4-7
But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’
Proverbs 24:16
For the righteous falls seven times and rises again, but the wicked stumble in times of calamity.

Hebrews 10:26-11:5
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment..."

2 Chronicles 30:9
For if you return to the Lord, your brothers and your children will find compassion with their captors and return to this land. For the Lord your God is gracious and merciful and will not turn away his face from you, if you return to him.”

Galatians 4:9
But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?"

 

[farouk]

Just a few...

@Nancy
: Those who are not saved in the end, were never truly relying fully on the finished work of Christ. Romans 8 and John's First Epistle are very assuring to the true believer.