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Featured Can you sum this up in a couple of sentences?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Willie T, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    And, do you agree or disagree with it?

    In vain were the authority of Scripture fortified by argument, or supported by the consent of the Church, or confirmed by any other helps, if unaccompanied by an assurance higher and stronger than human Judgment can give. Till this better foundation has been laid, the authority of Scripture remains in suspense. On the other hand, when recognizing its exemption from the common rule, we receive it reverently, and according to its dignity, those proofs which were not so strong as to produce and rivet a full conviction in our minds, become most appropriate helps. For it is wonderful how much we are confirmed in our belief, when we more attentively consider how admirably the system of divine wisdom contained in it is arranged — how perfectly free the doctrine is from every thing that savors of earth — how beautifully it harmonizes in all its parts — and how rich it is in all the other qualities which give an air of majesty to composition. Our hearts are still more firmly assured when we reflect that our admiration is elicited more by the dignity of the matter than by the graces of style. For it was not without an admirable arrangement of Providence, that the sublime mysteries of the kingdom of heaven have for the greater part been delivered with a contemptible meanness of words. Had they been adorned with a more splendid eloquence, the wicked might have caviled, and alleged that this constituted all their force. But now, when an unpolished simplicity, almost bordering on rudeness, makes a deeper impression than the loftiest flights of oratory, what does it indicate if not that the Holy Scriptures are too mighty in the power of truth to need the rhetorician’s art?

    Hence there was good ground for the Apostle’s declaration, that the faith of the Corinthians was founded not on “the wisdom of men,” but on “the power of God,” (1 Cor. 2:5), this speech and preaching among them having been “not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,” (1 Cor. 2:5). For the truth is vindicated in opposition to every doubt, when, unsupported by foreign aid, it has its sole sufficiency in itself. How peculiarly this property belongs to Scripture appears from this, that no human writings, however skillfully composed, are at all capable of affecting us in a similar way. Read Demosthenes or Cicero, read Plato, Aristotle, or any other of that class: you will, I admit, feel wonderfully allured, pleased, moved, enchanted; but turn from them to the reading of the Sacred Volume, and whether you will or not, it will so affect you, so pierce your heart, so work its way into your very marrow, that, in comparison of the impression so produced, that of orators and philosophers will almost disappear; making it manifest that in the Sacred Volume there is a truth divine, a something which makes it immeasurably superior to all the gifts and graces attainable by man.
     
  2. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I think I got through just the first three sentences... The I gave up.

    I won't bother asking if one of the early "Church Father's" wrote this, nor which one.

    The first 3 sentences I read and figured out are brilliant. But, what good are they?

    The first sentence says that it doesn't matter what man thinks, God is right, and is right without man agreeing with him!

    The second sentence says that we needed an Apostle to explain the ways of God, just as we need a dumb ass like me to explain the second sentence, which was written by another dumb ass trying to explain why we need dumb asses, even though God doesn't.

    The third sentence says even though God doesn't need our help, a man of God, though he may be a dumb ass, helps to understand.

    The early Church Father's and even some Protestants like Calvin, I just believe loved to hear themselves talk and liked to show off their literal ability. I appreciate them and all, but I am much more appreciative of plain speakers like Iraneaus and Luther.

    Wise men don't have to prove they are wise... They just have to be wise to prove they are such.

    And... Perhaps I am totally wrong in what the text was saying. But that's not my fault. It's the writer's fault if they truly wanted me to understand.
     
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  3. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I got out of it: "Commentaries are cool, but straight Scripture enflames the heart. (It was Calvin, BTW.) And before I could say I totally agree with it, we would have to determine just what version and which passage.
     
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Divine wisdom -- as revealed in Scripture -- is immeasurably superior to human wisdom, even though it is presented in simple language.
     
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  5. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting to see how many people here admit that they wanted to have someone to translate what he even said.
     
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  6. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Yes, without the anointing on bible verses anything, through good...is not life bringing.

    Just my thought.
     
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  7. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Well summarized!
     
  8. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't identify it as Calvin, but I was thinking it was probably either him or Augustine.

    I have read plenty of Calvin. In some of his books he liked to analyze scripture verse by verse and word by word. He isn't the only one to do that, but such a practice often leads to missing the big picture and increases the chance of contradicting yourself. I can't give examples, but when I studied Calvin I did find this to be the case.

    Calvin was brilliant, but far from faultless. Even when judging him on his works and not his reputation. Few do that...
     
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  9. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    I found it hard going - I must admit it was like reading a letter from the tax man - and as for trying to Express it in one sentence , no chance !
    What does ' not understanding that ' prove exactly. ?
    Just curious x
    Rita
     
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  10. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    In his comment that the language of scripture was "crude"', it seems he was reading the original Greek or the common Latin. He could not say that with conviction if he were reading the KJV. The English of the KJV, in my opinion, gives to the scriptures a beauty of language equal to the content.
    As for summing up his short treatise...The power of scripture in comparison with the human literary masterpieces of the great philosophers place all else in its shadow.
     
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  11. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Calvin died about 47 years before the KJV was written. (And most of the KJV was written in what would have been consider "simple" language of that day, in order to be more easily memorized or "retained" by the common man... sort of like some of the modern children's bibles of today.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  12. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    It "proves" nothing.... except that you might have frustrated your English teacher when you guys studied Shakespeare. LOL But, that's OK. I drove most of my teachers nuts.

    BTW, the trick to understanding Elizabethan English is to, first of all, have no distractions... then to realize the individual phrases are going to make no sense on their own (they have to be incorporated into the long run-on sentences they make up, and are often presented in reverse subject/verb order to modern English), and to read the sentence fully and quickly, but with serious regard to the commas and semi-colons.

    Ex: "We, upon first blush understand not, yet so easily, under conditions proper, we shall if but certain elementary techniques are most excellently applied." ("We'll get it if we do it right.")

     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  13. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Willie, I have never studied Shakespeare ( even though I am British!! Lol )
    I have always struggled with old English, hence why I find the King james bible hard going.
    I did understand it slightly more the second time I read it
    Rita
     
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  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i would sure be one of them lol, near as i can tell it is crap, and he contradicts himself repeatedly
     
  15. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I can't reiterate it enough.... No matter what translation you use, I think it would behoove anyone to, in conjunctive reading, avail themselves of the clearly worded explanations found in The Passion Translation.
     
  16. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Actually, he doesn't Usually when we say something like that, it is because we, in our unfamiliarity with the strange-to-us jargon, often miss transitions prefaced by the word "not", or some such similar error afforded by trying to read too flightingly.
     
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  17. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    actually now that you mention it on second reading I am finding it hard to object LOL
     
  18. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I tend to look at other translations anyway- but many on here frown upon that x
     
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  19. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    So true. Frankly, as a man, I detest many of the attitudes Calvin held about others. And I think his basic theology is couched in arrogance and narcissism. But he was one great scholar and a helluva of a writer.
     
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  20. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Somebody always frowns on just about anything you can mention.
     
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