Catholic understanding of the Eucharist

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dev553344

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I'm watching the video, and the one thing that I'm starting to realize is that if the Eucharist can become the body and blood of Christ, then it can heal you: Matthew 9:21 "For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.". And that says to me how powerful his body is in the healing of the sick and afflicted. Just the hem though and she was healed.
 

dev553344

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I came across an excellent explanation of the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist here:

Enjoy!

Peace be with you!

Well I watched about 34 minutes of the video and it's really long winded. Boy I think he really should have summed up there on the whole issue. It was a great Church history lesson though :)
 

JohnDB

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Now what is facinating to me right now is watching the German Catholic Church.

The sacraments of communion of the Catholic Church is supposed to be just for Catholics (except in cases of dire emergency).
And in Germany they are allowing Protestants, married to Catholics, partake in communion without them actually joining the Catholic Church.
This kinda goes against the rules...

And I'm curious as to whether a letter telling them to stop is going to be issued from the Vatican or not.
 

historyb

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I'm watching the video, and the one thing that I'm starting to realize is that if the Eucharist can become the body and blood of Christ, then it can heal you: Matthew 9:21 "For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.". And that says to me how powerful his body is in the healing of the sick and afflicted. Just the hem though and she was healed.

It is definitely healing. The Eucharist is life itself
 

mailmandan

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Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage in John 6 when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63) Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths.

Jesus is not speaking of cannibolism here, but believing in Him unto salvation. Compare for example the following two verses:

John 6:47 - “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

John 6:58 - “He who eats this bread will live forever.”

“He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “he who eats this bread” and the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is also seen in verses 40 and 54:

John 6:40 - “Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:54 - “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So John 6 does not support mysticism or cannibalism in regards to the false doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it’s the primacy of faith as the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him unto salvation.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
 

dev553344

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Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage in John 6 when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63) Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths.

Jesus is not speaking of cannibolism here, but believing in Him unto salvation. Compare for example the following two verses:

John 6:47 - “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

John 6:58 - “He who eats this bread will live forever.”

“He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “he who eats this bread” and the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is also seen in verses 40 and 54:

John 6:40 - “Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:54 - “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So John 6 does not support mysticism or cannibalism in regards to the false doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it’s the primacy of faith as the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him unto salvation.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.

This all seems subject to interpretation. I can see many different beliefs could stem from those passages. But we do take the sacrament, do you take the sacrament, and say this is the body and blood of Christ Jesus? If it's just spirit, then that's fine with me also. So long as we take the sacrament. Although I'm starting to wonder if some members on this forum would dismiss the Sacrament also as not required, like baptism...

Luke 22:19:

"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."
 
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mailmandan

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This all seems subject to interpretation. I can see many different beliefs could stem from those passages. But we do take the sacrament, do you take the sacrament, and say this is the body and blood of Christ Jesus? If it's just spirit, then that's fine with me also. So long as we take the sacrament. Although I'm starting to wonder if some members on this forum would dismiss the Sacrament also as not required, like baptism...

Luke 22:19:

"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."
At the church where I attend we do partake of the Lord's Supper and we believe that the bread and wine symbolically represent the body and blood of Christ, but we don't believe in transubstantiation/cannibolism. We do not dismiss partaking of the Lord's supper or receiving water baptism for new converts at my church, but we view the Lord's supper and baptism as ordinances instead of sacraments that are required for salvation.
 
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dev553344

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At the church where I attend we do partake of the Lord's Supper and we believe that the bread and wine symbolically represent the body and blood of Christ, but we don't believe in transubstantiation/cannibolism. We do not dismiss partaking of the Lord's supper or receiving water baptism for new converts at my church, but we view the Lord's supper and baptism as ordinances instead of sacraments that are required for salvation.

Yeah I have a problem with viewing the Eucharist as cannibalistic tendency also. Catholics would probably then say I'm not worthy to receive the Eucharist physically, but perhaps then spiritually. At least that's what I get from the Catholic Mass language.

But I do think the sacrament is part of the ordinance of salvation.
 

JohnDB

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It's a backhanded reference to Adam and Eve eating fruit from the tree of good and evil...

They internalized that fruit and subsequently died...

If you internalize Jesus you will live forever...
 
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dev553344

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It's a backhanded reference to Adam and Eve eating fruit from the tree of good and evil...

They internalized that fruit and subsequently died...

If you internalize Jesus you will live forever...
I've often thought the same.
 
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Philip James

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At the church where I attend we do partake of the Lord's Supper and we believe that the bread and wine symbolically represent the body and blood of Christ,

Hello mailmandan,

If that PEW research poll was accurate, then apparently many North American Catholics would agree with you.
It is this very erroneous understanding of the Eucharist that Bishop Baron is addressing in his presentation.

Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage in John 6 when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)

Who's flesh profits nothing?
Jesus just finished saying His flesh counts for everything! So to infer that His flesh counts for nothing Is to make the whole Bread if Life discourse nonsensical.
It is our flesh that counts for nothing.. What we see, what we taste, what we think with our puny human understanding...
His words, establish reality! God speaks and so it is! Now what were His words again?

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him
.

, but we don't believe in transubstantiation/cannibolism

Equating it with cannibalism is again, looking at it entirely the wrong way..
We are not eating pieces of dead flesh that get broken down and incorporated into our bodies..
We are receiveing the Living risen Christ, whole and entire...
He is not destroyed by our receiving Him (and neither can He be!)
Rather, this is the way which Jesus chose to unite Himself with His bride. 'the two made one flesh'.
In giving Himself to us, He unites us with Himself! Incorporating us into His body!
And the fruit of this union? Every man, woman and child that has been baptized into Christ.

Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, waits for us, at every celebration of the Eucharist, inviting us to be intimately united with Himself!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 
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Enoch111

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I came across an excellent explanation of the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist here:
While I do not watch posted videos, I believe I have a clear understanding of the Catholic Eucharist, which is definitely not the Lord's Supper, as even Catholic John Wyclif pointed that out long before the Reformers.

In the Mass you have (1) a literal priest, at (b) a literal altar, making (c) a literal bloodless sacrifice of Christ. However , the wafer is regarded as the literal flesh of Christ, and the cup is regarded as the literal blood of Christ.

This violates the fundamental Gospel truth which is stated in Hebrews 10:12: But this Man [Christ], after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.

If Christ offered one sacrifice for sins forever, and God has put His stamp of approval on that by having Christ seated at the right hand of God, then no man and no church can controvert that.

As to the words of Christ regarding the eating of His flesh and the drinking of His blood, the only way to interpret that is in the spiritual sense, and that is exactly what Christ said in John 6:63:
It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.
 

JohnDB

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There are usually 4 cups at a traditional Sedar...(Passover dinner)

When a guy would find a virgin daughter and wanted his father to talk to her father about getting married...
There was usually a huge party surrounding the discussion.

There would be a bunch of haggling over the Dowry and the Bride Price...and elements of the ketubah would also be discussed and haggled over. (Ketubah was something akin to a prenuptial agreement but much more inclusive in scope...it didn't focus much on divorce at all)

Then, when everything was agreed to, and all parties were agreed the virgin daughter was considered to be married. He would then give her the ten coins sewn into a headband.
Then the groom would pour her a cup of sweet wine (symbolic of joy) and say, "This is my blood poured out for you" IOW he was promising to make her happy in their married life.

Then she would down it... opah!

Then where usually this happens at the Bride's house the groom would tell her "Behold, I'm going to prepare a place for you. And when it is finished I will come back for you"

During the Sedar, Jesus took the Love Cup and said to the Apostles the very words of a groom to a bride. Asking them to have as close of a relationship as a husband and wife will. (Not a homosexual thing but a knowing thing)

Jewish life was absolutely full of ceremony and ritual. (Much like Japanese life)

Unless you understand the rituals and procedures you get really lost in them.
 

Philip James

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Then the groom would pour her a cup of sweet wine (symbolic of joy) and say, "This is my blood poured out for you" IOW he was promising to make her happy in their married life.

Hi John,
Interesting, and apt..
For the Lord's Supper is when God wed His people Israel, as He promised He would do..
At the time prescribed by Moses, Jesus offers Himself to the Father as the Pascal Lamb (the bride price).
Then the Groom gives Himself to His bride:
'this is My Body, take and eat'
'This Cup is the New Covenant in My Bloid, take and drink'
And she receiving Him, the two are made one flesh. (Eph 5:31-32)

What wonder, what mercy, what joy! That the gentiles were welcomed into that union!

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 
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JohnDB

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Hi John,
Interesting, and apt..
For the Lord's Supper is when God wed His people Israel, as He promised He would do..
At the time prescribed by Moses, Jesus offers Himself to the Father as the Pascal Lamb (the bride price).
Then the Groom gives Himself to His bride:
'this is My Body, take and eat'
'This Cup is the New Covenant in My Bloid, take and drink'
And she receiving Him, the two are made one flesh. (Eph 5:31-32)

What wonder, what mercy, what joy! That the gentiles were welcomed into that union!

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

I've done some studies into the anthropology of Jewish life...
 
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Philip James

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While I do not watch posted videos, I believe I have a clear understanding of the Catholic Eucharist,

As I pointed out once before your understanding of what we do is twisted, but you obstinately refuse to be corrected.

For others i will answer you this one last time..

We offer to our Almighty Father, that which He in His goodness, gives us:

The Lamb of God, who once was slain and now lives forever! (Rev 5:6)

To His ONE sacrifice, we unite our thanksgiving, our praise, yes even our very selves;
That through Him
And with Him
And in Him
In the unity of the Holy Spirit
All glory and honour be given to
Our Almighty Father
Amen!

This sacrifice, offered in all places, by all peoples and tongues, is the fulfillment of Malachi 1:11

For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

To whom do you offer sacrifice?

Peace be with you!
 
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JohnDB

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Neat! What can you tell me about John the Baptist as 'best man'?

Peace!


Long story...
He was the Elijah as you know...

But there's more...a lot more!
And there's a tie in to the Dead Sea Scrolls.

But I'm cooking dinner at the moment. I'll get back to your question after it's cooked.