Cause & Effect

[Looking4Me]

Does Jesus effect people's freewill or not?

That is a question long debated among Christian's, and still remains unanswered.

If you are on the side of Jesus effecting freewill, then humanities choices will always be diminished. However if you are on the side of Jesus not effecting freewill, then Jesus can't actually do anything (Because the law of cause and effect) whatever you put in motion will always have it's effect, even if it's small.

 

[quietthinker]

Does Jesus effect people's freewill or not?

That is a question long debated among Christian's, and still remains unanswered.

If you are on the side of Jesus effecting freewill, then humanities choices will always be diminished. However if you are on the side of Jesus not effecting freewill, then Jesus can't actually do anything (Because the law of cause and effect) whatever you put in motion will always have it's effect, even if it's small.

Being trapped with how one interprets language without understanding intent keeps one on a never ending treadmill that even the obvious like 'burning the house up or burning the house down' becomes elusive.

 

[dev553344]

Does Jesus effect people's freewill or not?

That is a question long debated among Christian's, and still remains unanswered.

If you are on the side of Jesus effecting freewill, then humanities choices will always be diminished. However if you are on the side of Jesus not effecting freewill, then Jesus can't actually do anything (Because the law of cause and effect) whatever you put in motion will always have it's effect, even if it's small.

You might say he effects free will in this way. A man not ever knowing the bible or God's teachings might have a different selection of choices, mostly evil. But supplied with the Good will of God, man might choose better choices and could choose the good or evil then.

 

[Enoch111]

However if you are on the side of Jesus not effecting freewill, then Jesus can't actually do anything

There is no logic in this statement.

 

[Looking4Me]

There is no logic in this statement.

Can you explain why there is no logic to my particular statement.

 

[Looking4Me]

Being trapped with how one interprets language without understanding intent keeps one on a never ending treadmill that even the obvious like 'burning the house up or burning the house down' becomes elusive.

I guess my intent is simple. I am sick of reading posts on the subject for and against freewill, and my aim is to point out the flaw on both sides of the argument.

 

[Enoch111]

Can you explain why there is no logic to my particular statement.

The answer is very simple. Jesus is sovereign Lord God and is not dependent upon human freewill for His actions or decisions. And in His sovereignty, He has given mankind freewill -- the ability to make moral choices, whether good or bad. But there are consequences to all choices, and that is called the Law of Consequences. Whatsoever a man sows, is exactly what he reaps.

 

[Looking4Me]

You might say he effects free will in this way. A man not ever knowing the bible or God's teachings might have a different selection of choices, mostly evil. But supplied with the Good will of God, man might choose better choices and could choose the good or evil then.

Didn't Adam and Eve pass on the knowledge of good and evil they were forbidden to eat to their children? Don't we have that knowledge already?

 

[Looking4Me]

The answer is very simple. Jesus is sovereign Lord God and is not dependent upon human freewill for His actions or decisions. And in His sovereignty, He has given mankind freewill -- the ability to make moral choices, whether good or bad. But there are consequences to all choices, and that is called the Law of Consequences. Whatsoever a man sows, is exactly what he reaps.

Okay. That doesn't discount what I have said.

 

[dev553344]

Didn't Adam and Eve pass on the knowledge of good and evil they were forbidden to eat to their children? Don't we have that knowledge already?

No that was Satan's lie to them. But yeah later God had to teach us the ten commandments, then Jesus taught us the beatitudes, etc. That's knowing good from evil.

 

[Looking4Me]

No that was Satan's lie to them. But yeah later God had to teach us the ten commandments, then Jesus taught us the beatitudes, etc. That's knowing good from evil.

But Adam and Eve still took the knowledge fruit from the tree of good and evil. So what takes?

 

[dev553344]

But Adam and Eve still took the knowledge fruit from the tree of good and evil. So what takes?

I think perhaps Satan wanted to have them be part of evil. So God intervened and taught us good.

 

[Looking4Me]

I think perhaps Satan wanted to have them be part of evil. So God intervened and taught us good.

Still the question remains. Does Jesus effect freewill or not?

 

[dev553344]

Still the question remains. Does Jesus effect freewill or not?

Yes at times he saves lives even if you don't ask him to. When people break the law by killing someone or wounding them, stealing from them, etc they are making choices for that person, we see it as a violation of civil rights and then we judge them and put them in prison. Jesus is the righteous judge and may make some decisions for us, but we still have free will also, but yes some choices he will make for us for the good of all things:

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

 

[Dcopymope]

Does Jesus effect people's freewill or not?

That is a question long debated among Christian's, and still remains unanswered.

If you are on the side of Jesus effecting freewill, then humanities choices will always be diminished. However if you are on the side of Jesus not effecting freewill, then Jesus can't actually do anything (Because the law of cause and effect) whatever you put in motion will always have it's effect, even if it's small.

As long as the will to commit an action is within your heart, there will always be the possibility to actualize it.

(James 1:13-15) "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: {14} But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. {15} Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

 

[Looking4Me]

Yes at times he saves lives even if you don't ask him to. When people break the law by killing someone or wounding them, stealing from them, etc they are making choices for that person, we see it as a violation of civil rights and then we judge them and put them in prison. Jesus is the righteous judge and may make some decisions for us, but we still have free will also, but yes some choices he will make for us for the good of all things:

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Deuteronomy 32:39 Sounds very much like how the planet (Nature) acts.

 

[dev553344]

Deuteronomy 32:39 Sounds very much like how the planet (Nature) acts.

I don't see it as nature, unless you're talking about God having created dangerous nature around us. I don't like to think about God harming people because I don't see him that way. But it's in the bible here and there.

 

[Renniks]

Does Jesus effect people's freewill or not?

That is a question long debated among Christian's, and still remains unanswered.

If you are on the side of Jesus effecting freewill, then humanities choices will always be diminished. However if you are on the side of Jesus not effecting freewill, then Jesus can't actually do anything (Because the law of cause and effect) whatever you put in motion will always have it's effect, even if it's small.

The traditional Arminian view is that God frees your will so you can choose. Cause and effect aren't absolute in a world where spiritual forces exist, My will is also a cause, correct?

 

[Looking4Me]

I don't see it as nature, unless you're talking about God having created dangerous nature around us. I don't like to think about God harming people because I don't see him that way. But it's in the bible here and there.

You don't like the idea of a creator who designed a universe with such destructive forces? Because whatever created all of this did design it that way.

 

[Looking4Me]

The traditional Arminian view is that God frees your will so you can choose. Cause and effect aren't absolute in a world where spiritual forces exist, My will is also a cause, correct?

I think you are mixing scientific theory with spirituality/religious doctrine. But other than that I don't know.