Cessastionism ,What is it?

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Can any non-cessationist define this? In other words what scriptures are used to teach this?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

If people cannot give the teaching how can they be critical of it?

 

[historyb]

Some cessationist believe that all gifts stopped at the end of the Apostolic age and most of the are from the Reformed and Calvin seems to have originated that view. There are different types of cessationist too:

Although the original formulation of cessationism arose in response to claims of healing and miracles in the Catholic Church, cessationists now divide into four viewpoints based on their views about the possibility of miracles in the Church today. These are:

• Full Cessationists believe that all miracles have ceased, along with any miraculous gifts.
• Classical Cessationists assert that the miraculous gifts such as prophecy, healing and speaking in tongues ceased with the apostles. However, they do believe that God occasionally works in supernatural ways today.
• Consistent Cessationists believe that not only were the miraculous gifts only for the establishment of the first-century church, but the need for apostles and prophets also ceased.
• Concentric Cessationists believe that the miraculous gifts have indeed ceased in the mainstream church and evangelized areas, but may appear in unreached areas as an aid to spreading the Gospel. Daniel B. Wallace describes himself as a concentric cessationist and describes the other cessationist viewpoints as "linear".

Source

It seems the idea of cessationism came about because God healed people in the Catholic Church, and we can't be having that according to them. Here is some more to help:

Arguments against modern charismatic and pentecostal practice are not, in themselves, arguments for cessationism. Many "open but cautious" continuationists would make the same arguments. To qualify as an argument for cessationism, an argument must make the case that the gifts of the spirit are not available to the church today. This may be an argument that the gifts were irrevocably lost, or it may be an argument that the gifts were withdrawn or meant to be temporary. Those are the only points of dispute. These arguments are as follows:

The Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets
Cessationists and continuationists agree that the Christian Church is built upon the foundation of prophets and apostles. A passage in the book of Ephesians reads:

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together growth unto an holy temple in the Lord.
— Ephesians 2:19-21

The principle arguments of cessationism are that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were only given for the foundation of the Church. For instance, Peter Masters states that the purpose of the gifts were to confirm the apostolic ministry with miraculous signs, until such a time as the Bible was completed by the Apostles and Prophets.[31] B B Warfield went further and argued that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were only conferred by the laying on of hands of the Apostles, and since the Apostles have all passed away, that the gifts too have passed away.

"My conclusion then is, that the power of working miracles was not extended beyond the disciples upon whom the Apostles conferred it by the imposition of their hands. As the number of these disciples gradually diminished, the instances of the exercise of miraculous powers became continually less frequent, and ceased entirely at the death of the last individual on whom the hands of the Apostles had been laid.[24]

Several responses can be made to Warfield's argument. The principle two responses are:

Firstly, Warfield's argument that the gifts can only be imparted by the laying on of hands of apostles is an argument from silence. Warfield argues that all cases of impartation of miracle working powers come from the laying on of hands of the apostles, but in many cases the bible does not tell us who prayed for whom to impart the gifts or the Holy Spirit, and it should be no surprise that the apostles are recorded as doing so in the book of the Acts of the Apostles. Moreover, Ruthven points out that Ananias, not himself an apostle, prayed for Paul with the laying on of hands in Acts 9:17. Ruthven writes:

To preserve his thesis, without any biblical evidence whatsoever, Warfield insists that Paul’s miracle working power was "original with him as an Apostle, and not conferred by any one".[22]:83

Secondly. if the office of apostle never left the church, then Warfield's argument fails for that reason too. Ruthven, among others, argues that the belief that the gift of apostleship was limited to the 12 apostles plus Paul is itself a post reformation doctrine that needs re-evaluation, and he lists nine arguments as to why apostleship continues within the church. However, as he notes, this is not the view of all continuationists. For instance, Ruthven notes that Dan Carson argues that the gift of apostleship alone is time limited.[22]:199–204

Exegesis of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12
A scriptural argument for cessationism is made with reference to a passage in Paul's letter to the Corinthians. In a chapter sandwiched between two chapters discussing spiritual gifts, Paul wrote a passage all about love, which contains the following verses:

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

— King James Version

The principal reason for the cessationist denial of the continuation of the gifts is their appeal to the closure of the canon of scripture (that is, the completion of the Bible). Implicit in their appeal is their understanding that the closure of the canon marked the end of the manifestation of spiritual gifts. However, the main continuationist objection is that the Bible does not offer any clear (explicit) text that would support cessationism. Some cessationists, such as Robert L. Thomas and Walter J. Chantry, appeal to the text of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 as a proof-text for cessationism.[30] Therefore, the question is how both camps in the dispute understand 1 Corinthians 13:8-12. In this context, the issue is how to interpret the expression in v. 10, "when that which is perfect is come," which speaks about an event associated with the cessation of the gifts.

Source

I am not a not a cessationist but I wanted to help

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Some cessationist believe that all gifts stopped at the end of the Apostolic age and most of the are from the Reformed and Calvin seems to have originated that view. There are different types of cessationist too:



Source

It seems the idea of cessationism came about because God healed people in the Catholic Church, and we can't be having that according to them. Here is some more to help:



Source

I am not a not a cessationist but I wanted to help

Good post,solid input.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Now it is obvious that many would prefer to fabricate and manufacture a whole parallel set of rules different from what is actually given in scripture.

You can make up almost any story or any false theology and call it good.
all manner of sanctified IMAGINATION is affirmed.
A complete false theology with it's own terms is created and cannot be questioned.
Flying demons, summoning spirits, possessed squirrels in the attic, dream upon dream, heavenly visitations, people meeting with the Apostles.
No real regard for scripture or it's teaching.
lip service is given to a verse here or there, but lack of reverence for God and His word.

 

[rockytopva]

My reply to cessationists...

*If you don't believe in healing stay sick
*If you don't believe in spirituality there are plenty of dry churches around
*If you don't believe in tongues don't speak them
*If you don't believe in prosperity stay poor
*If you don't believe in the fruit of faith remain in your unbelief!

But... I do not care to entertain such conversation and neither did the Apostle Paul....

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. - Romans 14:1

 

[Joseph77]

What about "having the form of religion, but denying the power thereof" ?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

My reply to cessationists...

*If you don't believe in healing stay sick
*If you don't believe in spirituality there are plenty of dry churches around
*If you don't believe in tongues don't speak them
*If you don't believe in prosperity stay poor
*If you don't believe in the fruit of faith remain in your unbelief!

But... I do not care to entertain such conversation and neither did the Apostle Paul....

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. - Romans 14:1

My reply to mistaken persons like yourself is it is not a question of"if you do not believe"...rather it is what saith the scripture?
You can keep your smith wiggelsworth fantasies and just ignore scriptural teaching which most do not have a handle on.
The rhyming noise you make is not biblical tongues.
You get sick like everyone else.
Word of faith prosperity heretics are soon to be judged.
When you turn from scripture you put yourself and others at risk.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

What about "having the form of religion, but denying the power thereof" ?

What do you see as the power my friend?

 

[Heart2Soul]

My reply to cessationists...

*If you don't believe in healing stay sick
*If you don't believe in spirituality there are plenty of dry churches around
*If you don't believe in tongues don't speak them
*If you don't believe in prosperity stay poor
*If you don't believe in the fruit of faith remain in your unbelief!

But... I do not care to entertain such conversation and neither did the Apostle Paul....

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. - Romans 14:1

Amen brother....I really don't understand how anyone can give so much credit to those who operate in the powers of darkness by evil spirits....
But a Christian come along and operate in the power of the Holy Spirit and half the religious members go ballistic and deny that there is any powers of the Holy Spirit today.
That is not the God I serve! I serve a mighty God who chooses His vessels wisely and allows the Holy Spirit to manifest His power through them...God is NOT a cessationists....He is an ETERNALISTS who was, and is, and is to come.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Who denied that there is power?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Who denied that there is power?

Cessationists

 

[marksman]

Can any non-cessationist define this? In other words what scriptures are used to teach this?

A cessationist is a person who believes that the gifts of the spirit are no longer necessary because we have the completed word of God. This was first espoused by J. N. Darby of the Plymouth Brethren in the U.K. who adopted this idea and made it part of their statement of faith. If you can find one it is set out in the J.N. Darby study bible.

Their main scripture used to prove this is 1Corinthians 13:10 but when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.

According to them, the part is the gifts of the spirit and the perfect is the bible. Now that we have the perfect Bible we don't need the imperfect gifts of the spirit.

This theology has been adopted by the Reform movement championed amongst others by John MacArthur.

 

[farouk]

A cessationist is a person who believes that the gifts of the spirit are no longer necessary because we have the completed word of God. This was first espoused by J. N. Darby of the Plymouth Brethren who adopted this idea and made it part of their statement of faith. If you can find one it is set out in the J.N. Darby study bible.

Their main scripture used to prove this is 1Corinthians 13:10 but when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.

According to them, the part is the gifts of the spirit and the perfect is the bible. Now that we have the perfect Bible we don't need the imperfect gifts of the spirit.

This theology has been adopted by the Reform movement championed amongst others by John MacArthur.

It didn't start with J N Darby, but I would happen to agree with it. (Depending on how one defines the gifts of the Spirit, of course.)

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Cessationists

Where do you see that?
The problem might not be a denial of power at all.
The problem more than likely is confused ideas about what power was given to whom.
The Apostles were unique.There were signs of an Apostle.
You are not an Apostle.
No one on this board is an Apostle.

 

[Joseph77]

Where do you see that?
The problem might not be a denial of power at all.
The problem more than likely is confused ideas about what power was given to whom.
The Apostles were unique.There were signs of an Apostle.
You are not an Apostle.
No one on this board is an Apostle.

Did Jesus have anything to do with healing when the Apostles were healing people ?
Was Jesus present where two or three, even three thousand, were gathered together to talk about Him, in His Name ?
Did Jesus ever heal people Himself, without the Apostles ?
Are there any messengers appointed by God, telling God's Word and of God's Word today, anywhere ?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Did Jesus have anything to do with healing when the Apostles were healing people ?
Was Jesus present where two or three, even three thousand, were gathered together to talk about Him, in His Name ?
Did Jesus ever heal people Himself, without the Apostles ?
Are there any messengers appointed by God, telling God's Word and of God's Word today, anywhere ?

Hello Joseph,
Thank you for the good questions. Course Jesus had something to do with one of the Apostles healed people. The signs of an apostle were given by God to authenticate Jesus as the Christ and the word of God as it is in truth the word of God. That was the main function of the signs of the Apostles. Notice it never said signs of all Christians it says signs of an apostle were brought among you in 2nd Corinthians 12:12.
I know that those who believe in the continuation going to want to go to Mark 16 these signs shall follow them that believe and they're going to say see its ongoing it's for those who believe. The context of Mark 16 is those who believe the apostolic preaching because if you're really careful it's those who heard the apostles or when you get presents of the Apostle those signs would accompany them that believe. As you go through every instance in the book of Acts with healing takes place almost every single time you find these words words for this effect where it says in the word of God was believed or the word of God was multiplied.
Next question you say was Jesus present where two or three I think you're referring to Matthew 18 where it says where two or three are gathered in my name that is not the church that gets mistaken as speaking of all well that's the church with two Believers are that's the church no with two Believers are you have to Kingdom members who are unassembled church members of the church is an assembly with eldership and deacons and Leadership and rules with two or three are gathered the context of Matthew 18 is church discipline so when people are gathered to enact church discipline Jesus there and acting the discipline on the person who has offended.
You know Joseph when someone is described as a cyst cessationist it's not that they're looking to put God In The Box or quench the spirit or any of these kind of things that people make the accusation. The truth is because God has taken great pains to give us scripture as His authoritative word as sufficient for all that pertains to life and godliness .
We are to defend that and know it .
What I find this those that I opted for this idea that this ongoing Revelation and ongoing gifts know very little about the word in context so that's the stress that a person who's called a cessationist would seek to demonstrate.
The scripture is very clear that Jesus went about healing people as Jesus is God in the flesh.
Then you ask are there any Messengers appointed by God telling God's word and of God's word today anywhere? Yes there are but they are not the apostles that were uniquely foundational gifts as Eph.2:20 speaks of.
They were not those that were ordained by Jesus as a mark 3:14 and they were not those who were active throughout the Acts of the Apostles.
In John 14 15 and 16 there were unique promises made to the apostles about what the Holy Spirit would do with that and how the Holy Spirit would accompany their preaching bring into remembrance the things Jesus had preached and taught them and using that word to convert souls.
Good and necessary questions Joseph. If I could help follow up with it if you have any verses in particular we could look at that would be fine that's why we're here

 

[Joseph77]

Oh, don't worry about doctrines of continuation or cessation.

Jesus is the same today as He was in the first century, and

Jesus is still healing people today the same way He healed all along,

and Jesus is still not doing much in towns where is much unbelief.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

A cessationist is a person who believes that the gifts of the spirit are no longer necessary because we have the completed word of God. This was first espoused by J. N. Darby of the Plymouth Brethren in the U.K. who adopted this idea and made it part of their statement of faith. If you can find one it is set out in the J.N. Darby study bible.

Their main scripture used to prove this is 1Corinthians 13:10 but when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.

According to them, the part is the gifts of the spirit and the perfect is the bible. Now that we have the perfect Bible we don't need the imperfect gifts of the spirit.

This theology has been adopted by the Reform movement championed amongst others by John MacArthur.

It is not that the gifts of the Spirit were imperfect. The word perfect has the idea of complete complete so you have in the Corinthians 13:10 passage speaks about that which was partial Revelation and that which is a completed Revelation so that passage is appealed to in part, but that is not even the main Crux of the issue.
Two other areas that have to be investigated are were the apostles unique and were they given unique promises which a good cessationist will be more than happy to describe for you.
What was the purpose of the sign gifts was it just to be an ongoing manual That was supposed to be read and followed
the historical accounts of the supernatural activities and said well this is good for all of us just like for example that we go out in the morning and pick up Manna off the ground ? there was a time when there was Supernatural food provided in that manner and obviously it points to Jesus being our manna that we feed on but do we get physical manna so we don't have to go to the grocery store anymore?
Do we walk on top of the water ?no because Jesus is not there telling us to walk on top of the water.
On this board you have people claiming to have gone to heaven and back or had Apostles write them postcards ,seeing demons flying around, demons chasing Squirrels In The Attic, all kind of nonsense that takes away from their testimony.
They think they're doing a good thing or that this is what is really going on but it's a fabricated poor substitute for the truth of the word of God.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Oh, don't worry about doctrines of continuation or cessation.

Jesus is the same today as He was in the first century, and

Jesus is still healing people today the same way He healed all along,

and Jesus is still not doing much in towns where is much unbelief.

I am not worried about the doctrine one way or another.
I just try to understand exactly what was taught in scripture and what was not.
Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever as Hebrews 13:8 says but that is speaking of his person and his work and again the context is we have a completed salvation a great high priest who lives eternally to intercede for us on the base of the basis of his finished work is once for all time work ,that's the basis of that verse not that everything that Jesus said while he walked physically on the earth he's doing or obligated to do today. God is Supernatural and God can heal but God can also not allow you to get any illness or sickness if that's what he purpose to do.
the fact is that God allows for all of those things to take place and each one of us unless the Lord comes back first will get some physical illness ailment or disease that takes us out of this life so this this whole idea of this make believe mystical bubble like Christians live in is nonsense.
Missionaries allowed in the field often times get malaria and other diseases from the water and the jungle or wherever they are and they're not immune from that because they're doing the work of the Lord You're so some of the Christians here in the west living in a fantasy world rather than the real world and deal with what God has actually called us to deal with in scripture.