Cheap Shot Christianity

[th1b.taylor]

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.




Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you.

Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.




If you inquire of the members of the Church today, in private, you will find that there is almost no limit to the things that Christianity does and does not include. The truth is that the average man or woman naming the name of Christ today has no idea what the Bible actually has to say about anything! We have a few thousand radio and television preachers, right, here in the U.S. I've heard, with my own ears, everything from God has no poor converts to the rich man is damned by his wealth, both are lies. In the prosperity gospel I heard a certain preacher teach that if you drive anything less than a Mercedes that you cannot be saved and I heard people of the Jim Jones and David Koresh ilk teach that if you have any wealth, property and virgin daughters that you have not surrendered to them, you can not possibly enter into the Kingdom of God.




Then, today, we have the Joseph Smith followers of the Mormon Church and of late, the LDS Church that teach the heresy that Jesus, the Christ is a created being and his brother is Satan but that any "man” can become a god and these are closely followed by the Jehovah's Witness' who freely admit to having no Heavenly hope and also teach that Jesus was never, is not now nor will ever be God. Both of these major groups of heretics are now claiming to be Christians. How does the seeker know the difference?




And just as you believe you've struck pay-dirt and have found a surviving fundamental Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist or Bible Teaching Independent Church, one of the life-long members drinks a beer and everyone pulls out their .357 and shoots him dead because he fell into sin. (The above is a figure of speech but they might as well have shot him, his Christian life is over as far as they are concerned.)




This message is depressing if you do not understand that these things were foreknown by our God and that He prepared the Way for us anyway. On some forums, this message will sit there, ignored, as folks do their best to ignore the impact of it and on others I will be slam-dunked for being Judgmental and in violation of the "most sacred” Christian fundamental. A few will be brave enough to speak up and admit that they, at some point in the past have fallen into this trap... on one end or the other! Over the past 21 years of my walk with the Christ I have found myself getting ready to pull that trigger and once I was dismissed from the Church I and my family were attending and although we were run off by the ?pastor? because of his sin, that was not the perception by some, especially by those helping him to sin against God.




This will be short but sweet tonight. The point is that as the followers of Christ it is our duty to follow His lead. Remember old foot in the mouth Peter? Jesus picked the servants ear up off the ground and I'll bet with a funny look at Peter put the man's ear back on his head, right where Peter had just lopped it off from. And when Peter denied Jesus three times that same night... Jesus, after He rose from the grave restored Peter to his former position. As the followers of Christ we will be so busy lifting our brothers and sisters up and restoring them that we will have no time to sin if we obey Him.




By the time we find out enough to discern who is genuine and who to let walk we'll need teams to hand the fallen over to as we look into the state of the one's just fallen, since. God bless.

 

[bigape]

Hello th1b.taylor and welcome.

I think I get your point.

You started off by saying.......

“If you inquire of the members of the Church today, in private, you will find that there is almost no limit to the things that Christianity does and does not include.”

This is not all that easy to do.

First you have to cut away, all those “so-called Churches”, that preach the wrong Gospel.
Then what you are left with, are a few hundred different kinds of Churches, that go in one of two different directions.

➀ Some go to the right: ➁ and some go to the left.
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Those that go to the left, will include every Church that waters down God’s instructions in the Bible, one way or another.
This will invite people to think that they can get away with their sins.

And those on the right, will included every Church that adds man-made doctrines to the faith, becoming legalistic and causing people to major on stupid things, while overlooking the sinfulness within their own heart.

Now in both cases, because these Churches preach the right Gospel(the right way to get to heaven), you will find some who are truly saved and living for the Lord and daily dealing with their sins.

But, the place to be, is in a Church that falls in between these two extremes.
A Church that faithfully preaches Bible Doctrine, and does not add to it.

These Churches are very hard to find, but they are out there.
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As for your statement about a life-long member of one of these Churches drinking a beer and everyone pulls out their .357 and shoots him dead because he fell into sin.

I know what you mean here also.

Although I don’t drink any kind of intoxicating beverages, the Bible does not say that drinking beer is a sin.
It’s only a sin to get drunk.

As for others condemning this person, this is not right either, because none of us are without sin...........
1 John 1:8
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
--------------------------------------------------
As for Peter’s action in the garden.....
Jesus had just finished telling them, to arm themselves, but Jesus had made clear that these arms were only going to be needed after he left.
Peter didn’t listen closely enough.


Try not to get discouraged, in your search for a good Church.

 

[TexUs]

If everyone could obey Christ and not have time to sin, we wouldn't need him, ay? But you speak the truth... I do agree if we lived like Christ wants us to that we'd never have time to sin.

I also count myself fortunate to go to a church that's above most everything you've spoken of. Even drinking a beer is understood for what it is. Highly Biblical church. Very few things I disagree on, and those I do disagree on are usually little doctrines, enough to discuss but not enough for anyone to ever get upset over. The biggest flaw in the church I attend, however, is "practice what you preach" and this does apply to the pastor as well. Not from a ministry standpoint (though, that too), but more than a living-beyond-your-means standpoint.


Good churches do exist though. They are indeed very hard to find and few and far between, my guess is not more than a few of them exist per state.

 

[aspen]

It is sad to see more charity and compassion in the Mormon Church than in many Christian circles. Too many Christians put doctrine over people.

 

[aspen]

I am also wondering if people can have a discussion without accusing the other person in every post? I think is is so interesting that some people can so vigorously accuse others, while at the very same time cry as loudly as possible about being attacked. If it is not cheap shot Christianity, it is surely is a clanging gong.

 

[[email protected]]

I am also wondering if people can have a discussion without accusing the other person in every post? I think is is so interesting that some people can so vigorously accuse others, while at the very same time cry as loudly as possible about being attacked. If it is not cheap shot Christianity, it is surely is a clanging gong.

It's done because one's beliefs go to the core of one's experience and being.
If a thing has any meaning at all, it is worth defending and defending vigorously.

Those who have no convictions or life in them stand to one side and wonder what all the fuss is about.
Those who are dead do not understand the living.

It's about passion and life - something which those who have no blood misunderstand.

If you inquire of the members of the Church today, in private, you will find that there is almost no limit to the things that Christianity does and does not include. The truth is that the average man or woman naming the name of Christ today has no idea what the Bible actually has to say about anything! We have a few thousand radio and television preachers, right, here in the U.S. I've heard, with my own ears, everything from God has no poor converts to the rich man is damned by his wealth, both are lies. In the prosperity gospel I heard a certain preacher teach that if you drive anything less than a Mercedes that you cannot be saved and I heard people of the Jim Jones and David Koresh ilk teach that if you have any wealth, property and virgin daughters that you have not surrendered to them, you can not possibly enter into the Kingdom of God.

I cannot fault you for your observations because they are accurate.
I don't like your assumptions, but they are true.

God help us.

This situation exists because there is no acceptance of sound doctrine by the leaders and teachers.
They preach and lead according to the necessity of their wallets.
Prosperity, for example, SELLS better than repentance.
This is why you'll never hear repentance preach on the air.

It's also true about national politics and American history.

We've become a nation of opinionated illiterate idiots.

Those who lead us know exactly what they want and where they want to go.....and they will take us where they want us to go like the mindless sheep we are.

 

[jiggyfly]

Now in both cases, because these Churches preach the right Gospel(the right way to get to heaven), you will find some who are truly saved and living for the Lord and daily dealing with their sins.

Wasn't sin was dealt with by God at the cross of Christ?

 

[bigape]

Hello jiggyfly

You asked..........

“Wasn't sin dealt with by God at the cross of Christ?”

Yes it was.
And if you have been born again, all your sins(past present & future), have been already forgiven, and you won’t be condemned for them.

But.....we are all still sinners, and even though our sin can’t condemn us, it can still bring God’s chastening hand upon us(He will have to give us a spanking), and cause us a lot of trouble in life.
--------------------------------------------------
Therefore, we as Christians have to deal with our sins, when ever God convicts us of them........
1 John 1:8-10
V.8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
V.9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
V.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Dealing with our sins, is done by admitting to ourselves and God, that we are guilty of them, and asking God’s forgiveness.

Once again, we don’t do this to get saved or to keep ourselves saved; it is simply done to keep our communion with the Lord sweet........
John 13:5-10
V.5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel wherewith he was girded.
V.6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
V.7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
V.8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
V.9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also [my] hands and [my] head.
V.10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash [his] feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Dealing with our sins, is kind of like getting or feet washed.
--------------------------------------------------
This is one of the great things about regular Church attendance:
We expose ourselves to the preaching of God’s Word, and give Him an opportunity to deal with our heart and life.

 

[jiggyfly]

Hello jiggyfly

You asked..........


Yes it was.
And if you have been born again, all your sins(past present & future), have been already forgiven, and you won’t be condemned for them.

But.....we are all still sinners, and even though our sin can’t condemn us, it can still bring God’s chastening hand upon us(He will have to give us a spanking), and cause us a lot of trouble in life.
--------------------------------------------------
Therefore, we as Christians have to deal with our sins, when ever God convicts us of them........
1 John 1:8-10
V.8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
V.9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
V.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Dealing with our sins, is done by admitting to ourselves and God, that we are guilty of them, and asking God’s forgiveness.

Once again, we don’t do this to get saved or to keep ourselves saved; it is simply done to keep our communion with the Lord sweet........
John 13:5-10
V.5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel wherewith he was girded.
V.6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
V.7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
V.8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
V.9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also [my] hands and [my] head.
V.10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash [his] feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Dealing with our sins, is kind of like getting or feet washed.
--------------------------------------------------
This is one of the great things about regular Church attendance:
We expose ourselves to the preaching of God’s Word, and give Him an opportunity to deal with our heart and life.

Do you understand what it means to be justified?

Paul said to the Colossians, "For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross. This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends. He has done this through his death on the cross in his own human body. As a result, he has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault."


And again to the Believers in Rome, "Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God's anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times. And he is entirely fair and just in this present time when he declares sinners to be right in his sight because they believe in Jesus.
Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith. So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law."

This is one of the great things about regular Church attendance:
We expose ourselves to the preaching of God’s Word, and give Him an opportunity to deal with our heart and life.

I am part of the ekklesia, it is a spiritual entity and Father and I converse daily and HolySpirit deals with my heart and life all through the day everyday so I have no need for any man-made religious liturgy.

 

[th1b.taylor]

It's done because one's beliefs go to the core of one's experience and being.
If a thing has any meaning at all, it is worth defending and defending vigorously.

Those who have no convictions or life in them stand to one side and wonder what all the fuss is about.
Those who are dead do not understand the living.

It's about passion and life - something which those who have no blood misunderstand.



I cannot fault you for your observations because they are accurate.
I don't like your assumptions, but they are true.

God help us.

This situation exists because there is no acceptance of sound doctrine by the leaders and teachers.
They preach and lead according to the necessity of their wallets.
Prosperity, for example, SELLS better than repentance.
This is why you'll never hear repentance preach on the air.

It's also true about national politics and American history.

We've become a nation of opinionated illiterate idiots.

Those who lead us know exactly what they want and where they want to go.....and they will take us where they want us to go like the mindless sheep we are.

I, also, am repelled by my assumptions but at some point we need to address them and that is, because of what you have agreed with, getting harder and harder to do.

 

[Duckybill]

How many are FEW?

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[sup]13 [/sup]"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [sup]14 [/sup]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[th1b.taylor]

How many are FEW?

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[sup]13 [/sup]"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [sup]14 [/sup]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

I'll give you as much as I can Ducky. if we read the scriptures we find that at one point the Christ, Jesus had about 120 followers that was, with the teaching of one difficult doctrine lessoned to te original 12, 10%. Just before I was saved, in 1990 the Barna Group conducted a double blind survey in churches of different denominations, all Christian, The groups were composed of, what is termed and defined as the faithful. These "Christians?" were all members that attended no less than tree services a week and I think I remember that they tithed.

The only questions asked were on issues that are required for salvation, such as, "Do you believe in the Virgin Birth? Do you believe that Jesus died for your sins?' and, "Do you believe Jesus is returning to take you to Heaven with Him?" I am given to understand that this was Triple Blind in that there was no supervision ad there were no names on any of the forms ad they never touched he Pastor's hands. These people were ree to answer any way they hose to! The result was that slightly less than 10% of this group actually believed and were saved.

Now, statistics show and my experience has born it out that, this "faithful" group is composed of about 15% of a given Church Body. Now, doing the math, this means that slightly less than 1.5% of a given Church Family is saved. I realize that these numbers are disappointing and less than accurate, but that is the best I an give you.

 

[TexUs]

How many are FEW?

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[sup]13 [/sup]"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [sup]14 [/sup]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

To build on what Tyler (?) said above... Ask people why they are saved. "I go to church every week". Or when they were saved. "I've been a Christian my whole life". It's frightening.

But I do think when Christ meant "few", he meant "few". I think less than half the church is actually Christians (might be worse as what Tyler stated, I won't disagree), and I think, even though I don't believe in a rapture I'll humor the idea for a moment, when that day comes- there will be lots of preachers left to preach to churches.