Christian Losers

[robert derrick]

I am learning that man is at his craftiest when trying to justify himself with God, and excuse himself from the righteous judgment of God.

OSAS has come up with eternal rewards for Christian 'losers'.

There is only going on to perfection in running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily to abide in Him as His disciples to bear fruit and that our joy may be full. Hebrews 12:1-2 Or else the consequence for not abiding in him is to be excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven by being left behind into the bed of the great tribulation.

Like the title of the movie, "Children of a Lesser God", this is a teaching of OSAS, that those who fall short of finishing the race of eternal life by disobedience to God, will not obtain the crown of righteousness, but will go through great tribulation and then be resurrected with the church: not as a resurrected saint reigning with Him, but only as an 'eternal underling' to serve Him.

Aside from the fact that all Christians go through tribulation to be purified and justified of God, there is no such thing as Christian 'losers' of the race, that refused to obey and serve God in this life, being forced into some kind of 'also ran' servitude to God for eternity.

This whole lunacy of forcing God to preserve and resurrect the rebellious 'believers', because of unconditional grace, is like Him being stuck with gum on His shoes for eternity.

There is no consolation prize for them that disobey Him.

 

[amigo de christo]

I am learning that man is at his craftiest when trying to justify himself with God, and excuse himself from the righteous judgment of God.

There is only going on to perfection in running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily to abide in Him as His disciples to bear fruit and that our joy may be full. Hebrews 12:1-2 Or else the consequence for not abiding in him is to be excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven by being left behind into the bed of the great tribulation.

Like the title of the movie, "Children of a Lesser God", this is a teaching of OSAS, that those who fall short of finishing the race of eternal life by disobedience to God, will not obtain the crown of righteousness, but will go through great tribulation and then be resurrected with the church: not as a resurrected saint reigning with Him, but only as an 'eternal underling' to serve Him.

Aside from the fact that all Christians go through tribulation to be purified and justified of God, there is no such thing as Christian 'losers' of the race, that refused to obey and serve God in this life, being forced into some kind of 'also ran' servitude to God for eternity.

This whole lunacy of forcing God to preserve and resurrect the rebellious 'believers', because of unconditional grace, is like Him being stuck with gum on His shoes for eternity.

There is no consolation prize for them that disobey Him.

JESUS himself , as well as paul and peter and even james warned us , IN THIS WORLD YE , the LAMBS will have persecution .
YES INDEED .
And they all warned of ONE COMING , NOT TWO .
As in the days of noah once the door was closed , THERE was not a second ark sent later for those
Nor in the days of lott . was another angel or angels sent in to later rescue some .
NO , IF we are not TRULY HIS , There is no hope on the day of the LORD .
We are the servant of whom we obey . Let the lambs endure faithful unto the end .
For we are made partakers OF HIM , IF WE HOLD our confidence in HIM TO THE END .
THERE is no second chance . No second chance . If one dies tonight in their sin , in unbelief , denying Christ
WELL we cant pray them out of their sentence . TOO late .
AND if one is left behind on the glorious DAY of the LORD , NO SECOND CHANCE .
TOO many are buying the lies of men my friend . Let us learn our bibles well .
He who endures faithful unto the end , the SAME shall be saved .

 

[robert derrick]

JESUS himself , as well as paul and peter and even james warned us , IN THIS WORLD YE , the LAMBS will have persecution .
YES INDEED .
And they all warned of ONE COMING , NOT TWO .
As in the days of noah once the door was closed , THERE was not a second ark sent later for those
Nor in the days of lott . was another angel or angels sent in to later rescue some .
NO , IF we are not TRULY HIS , There is no hope on the day of the LORD .
We are the servant of whom we obey . Let the lambs endure faithful unto the end .
For we are made partakers OF HIM , IF WE HOLD our confidence in HIM TO THE END .
THERE is no second chance . No second chance . If one dies tonight in their sin , in unbelief , denying Christ
WELL we cant pray them out of their sentence . TOO late .
AND if one is left behind on the glorious DAY of the LORD , NO SECOND CHANCE .
TOO many are buying the lies of men my friend . Let us learn our bibles well .
He who endures faithful unto the end , the SAME shall be saved .

THERE was not a second ark sent later for those.

Cute. No 'straggler control' for the also rans.

There is no hope on the day of the LORD .

True. The hope of the lawfully running saints is the resurrected body, where the race and the fight ends: no more enduring and overcoming temptation and lust of the world.

Their vain hope is to have 'supernaturally' done for them at the Lord's day, what they would not do for themselves according to His commandment: to purify our hearts and cleanse our hands, that we may ascend unto the hill of the Lord.

as we have no part in finishing His work in us

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy.

Them who take no part in their own salvation, will have no part int he resurrection of the blessed.

THERE is no second chance . No second chance . If one dies tonight in their sin , in unbelief , denying Christ
WELL we cant pray them out of their sentence .

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

No purgatory time after this life. the only true purgatory for Christians is tribulation of temptation, deception, and persecution in this life.

TOO many are buying the lies of men my friend.

Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard.

Simply understanding what is written is true, and we either do it or not, is far easier and way less complex and hard than all the twisting turns and pseudo-scholarship necessary to justify oneself with God 'by grace'. If we would just go ahead and repent already, then all the machinations to sear the conscience would not be necessary at all.

 

[amigo de christo]

THERE was not a second ark sent later for those.

Cute. No 'straggler control' for the also rans.

There is no hope on the day of the LORD .

True. The hope of the lawfully running saints is the resurrected body, where the race and the fight ends: no more enduring and overcoming temptation and lust of the world.

Their vain hope is to have 'supernaturally' done for them at the Lord's day, what they would not do for themselves according to His commandment: to purify our hearts and cleanse our hands, that we may ascend unto the hill of the Lord.

as we have no part in finishing His work in us

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy.

Them who take no part in their own salvation, will have no part int he resurrection of the blessed.

THERE is no second chance . No second chance . If one dies tonight in their sin , in unbelief , denying Christ
WELL we cant pray them out of their sentence .

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

No purgatory time after this life. the only true purgatory for Christians is tribulation of temptation, deception, and persecution in this life.

TOO many are buying the lies of men my friend.

Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard.

Simply understanding what is written is true, and we either do it or not, is far easier and way less complex and hard than all the twisting turns and pseudo-scholarship necessary to justify oneself with God 'by grace'. If we would just go ahead and repent already, then all the machinations to sear the conscience would not be necessary at all.

too many have forgotten that JESUS is not the MINISTIR OF SIN
and that who we obey is whose we are .
TOO many have forgotten that true lambs are HEARERS and DOERS
and that hearers only are and have decieved themselves .
TOO many holler legalists , legalist unto those who would even quoate JESUS HIMSELF
or paul or others .
Too many have forgotten and probably never knew that YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS .
Too many consider that JUDGING and hateful now .
TOO many are under a delusion , too many are not hearing from GOD ,
they are hearing from men who have come in the name of JESUS , and yet have tuaght contrary TO SAID JESUS .
There are many now who do such a thing .
But the lambs do not hear them . AS JESUS said , SO SAY I , THE LAMBS HEAR THE VOICE of the GREAT SHEPARD of the sheep .
AND THEY WILL FLEE the voices of strangers who teach contrary to THAT SHEPARD and who twist and teach contrary
to what the true ones taught in that bible . SHEEP DONT HEED THAT VOICE .
Sheep take heed to what was written . THEY DONT OMIT IFS , THEY DONT OMIT things
and twist things to fit the teachings and acroynms of men . THEY SIMPLY HEED the SPIRIT
and thus they heed what the SPIRIT also inspired . THE TRUTH IN THAT BIBLE .
I have great fear for many now . WE must POINT TO CHRIST , to all HIs teachings to all reminders
to the pattern HE set and later we find in the letters of the aposltes in that bible .
ITS A WAR FOR THE SOULS OF MEN and the battle which has raged from the days of the beginning of the church
has now hit a huge climax and a strong delusion has been released and many are buying it .
NOT the lambs . WE BUY ONLY THE TRUTH and WE SELL IT NOT . but many have bought the lies of men gone wrong
and have sold the truth for a lie .

 

[robert derrick]

Here is the rest of the Christian doctrine for losers' consolation prize and rewards:

There are condemnation to those who do walk after the flesh just as there is no condemnation to those that do not walk after the flesh. Believers kind of missed both message in Romans 8:1, but although at risk, the prodigal son may have given up his inheritance for wild living, but he is still son, although like Esau, he can never get that back and forever damned as a vessel unto dishonor but still in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ) as vessels of wood & earth testifying to the power of God in salvation for all who believe in Him, even in His name. John 1:12-13

Damned vessels of dishonor stay in the house of God forever. The eternally damned wood, hay, and stubble of Christian losers for life, testify to the 'celebratory' grace of God.

This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

How true.

When any iniquity on that foundation is the same as denying Him verbally per Titus 1:16 for why it defiles the temple of God 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 and yet the spirit is saved .

And so the rebellious losers defiles temple of God from within unto death, but God saves their rebelliously believing spirit eternally. Like gum on God's shoe, still defiling His temple in heaven.

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

Him shall God destroy. Him being the soul. We are souls, not bodies.

If we persist in bad behavior, God will kill our body to save our spirit.

Only devilish wisdom can deceive transgressors into believing God will destroy the body to save the spirit.

Talk about the Mai Lai doctrine of hypocrites: God had to destroy His people to save them.

How can the least that are in that kingdom of heaven be in that kingdom of heaven still for breaking even the eats of His commandments and teaching other so in Matthew 5:19?

The least in the kingdom of heaven receive the greatest honor, as the little toe that is being pained by tribulation, yet are still standing tall in the faith.

The least in the kingdom of honor are not the most corrupt of believers.

Do they both as vessels unto dishonor and the least testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in His name John 1;12-13 ?

Hypocrites bring shame to the gospel and condemnation even from the world. They do not bring honor to God by celebrating filthy grace with their lying lips.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Hypocrites are told by God to put up or shut up.

But nobody will want to be left behind when the Bridegroom comes because there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth like Esau over giving up his birthright for a meal as the same as the prodigal son giving up his first inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, even though he is still son.

OSAS is salvation for Esau.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth is in outer darkness, not anywhere near the Light of Christ.

They are appointed to wrath with the hypocrites, not to 'indentured servitude' to God for eternity, like so much filthy gum stuck to His shoes.

Can this be what Jesus meant that He will not cast any one out completely out of the kingdom of heaven but they can be cast out as in excommunicated from attending the Marriage Supper in that kingdom of Heaven?

Uh, no.

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

But not a 'complete' castaway. Though we completely deny Him by wicked works, He will not completely deny us.

The Excommunicates of Christianity. Excommunicato losers in the faith. The Excommunicants Club.

I really don't think anyone at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb wants to have their platters served by excommunicated hypocrites and rebels. Unless, of course, they do it with 'celebratory' grace.

can this be how He will lose none of all the Father has given Him for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, as well as the least in that kingdom of heaven? I'd say so.

Like the movie 300, "You want earth and water? You'll get plenty of both down there."

When anyone does not believe Scripture as written, they will say whatever they want about Scripture.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Elect saints lose their life of sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake, and excommunicato sinners save their lives in sins and trespasses, but will not lose their souls.

But we are still to call former believers and carnal believers.

There are Christians saints with the mind of Christ walking after the Spirit, and their are carnal believers walking after the flesh, and the carnal shall serve the spiritual forever, even as the elder shall serve the younger.

You see how easy it is to turn the truth of Scripture into a pathetic lie?

Once the Bridegroom has come and gone, it is too late to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House.

But the consolation prize for hypocrites remains sure and steadfast forever.

This is why the Father has to drag us to the Son to reveal His Son to us to see & believe in the Son to be saved.

The art of the beast is to say things that really sound great and humble, while while blaspheming against God, who is love, and His word, which is true.

God doesn't drag people to His Son, neither does He drag His people across the finish line.

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy.

Our forerunner has already crossed the finish line of His race on earth, now we are to do so in His steps. The Father didn't drag His Son anywhere, neither does the Son drag His brethren anywhere.

 

[marks]

this is a teaching of OSAS, that those who fall short of finishing the race of eternal life by disobedience to God, will not obtain the crown of righteousness, but will go through great tribulation and then be resurrected with the church: not as a resurrected saint reigning with Him, but only as an 'eternal underling' to serve Him.

Not anything of "OSAS" I've ever heard of . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

This whole lunacy of forcing God to preserve and resurrect the rebellious 'believers', because of unconditional grace, is like Him being stuck with gum on His shoes for eternity.

For me, the lunacy is in thinking that somehow you are better than someone else though you both are redeemed by Jesus. Who are you to judge yourself?

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

too many have forgotten that JESUS is not the MINISTIR OF SIN
and that who we obey is whose we are .
TOO many have forgotten that true lambs are HEARERS and DOERS
and that hearers only are and have decieved themselves .
TOO many holler legalists , legalist unto those who would even quoate JESUS HIMSELF
or paul or others .
Too many have forgotten and probably never knew that YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS .
Too many consider that JUDGING and hateful now .
TOO many are under a delusion , too many are not hearing from GOD ,
they are hearing from men who have come in the name of JESUS , and yet have tuaght contrary TO SAID JESUS .
There are many now who do such a thing .
But the lambs do not hear them . AS JESUS said , SO SAY I , THE LAMBS HEAR THE VOICE of the GREAT SHEPARD of the sheep .
AND THEY WILL FLEE the voices of strangers who teach contrary to THAT SHEPARD and who twist and teach contrary
to what the true ones taught in that bible . SHEEP DONT HEED THAT VOICE .
Sheep take heed to what was written . THEY DONT OMIT IFS , THEY DONT OMIT things
and twist things to fit the teachings and acroynms of men . THEY SIMPLY HEED the SPIRIT
and thus they heed what the SPIRIT also inspired . THE TRUTH IN THAT BIBLE .
I have great fear for many now . WE must POINT TO CHRIST , to all HIs teachings to all reminders
to the pattern HE set and later we find in the letters of the aposltes in that bible .
ITS A WAR FOR THE SOULS OF MEN and the battle which has raged from the days of the beginning of the church
has now hit a huge climax and a strong delusion has been released and many are buying it .
NOT the lambs . WE BUY ONLY THE TRUTH and WE SELL IT NOT . but many have bought the lies of men gone wrong
and have sold the truth for a lie .

TOO many holler legalists , legalist unto those who would even quoate JESUS HIMSELF.

The response of the hypocrite to purifying the heart and doing His righteousness at all times, is: self-righteous legalist claiming to be 'sinless'.

They only ones speaking of the Jesus Christ, that they will condemn as unsaved, are the righteous even as He is righteous.

AND THEY WILL FLEE the voices of strangers who teach contrary to THAT SHEPARD and who twist and teach contrary.

The littlest sheep and least int he kingdom of Heaven know garbage when they hear it.

ITS A WAR FOR THE SOULS OF MEN and the battle which has raged from the days of the beginning of the church has now hit a huge climax and a strong delusion has been released and many are buying it.

The church has been purified by great tribulation since the resurrection of Jesus. The only question is when it ends in the resurrection of the church.

Which will not include them cast into outer darkness.

but many have bought the lies of men gone wrong and have sold the truth for a lie.

It is all about self-justification of men through faith only, by lying against only being justified with God by works of faith.

 

[robert derrick]

Not anything of "OSAS" I've ever heard of . . .

Much love!

If the teaching is false, then show it by Scripture. I am glad for sound correction. It does make us more sound in the faith of Jesus.

For me, the lunacy is in thinking that somehow you are better than someone else though you both are redeemed by Jesus.

If the doctrine is true of Scripture, then if you are being convicted and judged, it is God that judges your heart.

Blame and accuse God, not the messenger.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

Say we not well that you think you are better than us??

Who are you to judge yourself?

We're supposed to judge ourselves, and if we judge others, we will be judged in like manner.

I judge no man, but only the doctrine, and if I agree with the righteous judgment of God against all that go on still in their trespasses, then I know I will be righteously judged likewise.

 

[marks]

If the teaching is false, then show it by Scripture.

No, it's what you attribute to "OSAS". That's nothing like OSAS I've heard taught.

this is a teaching of OSAS, that those who fall short of finishing the race of eternal life by disobedience to God, will not obtain the crown of righteousness, but will go through great tribulation and then be resurrected with the church: not as a resurrected saint reigning with Him, but only as an 'eternal underling' to serve Him.

Where did you hear this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

For me, the lunacy is in thinking that somehow you are better than someone else though you both are redeemed by Jesus.

If the doctrine is true of Scripture, then if you are being convicted and judged, it is God that judges your heart.

What I'm saying is this. On what basis do you declare you are not subject to that which you attribute for others?

That is . . . on what basis do you declare that you are sufficiently sanctified to not be in danger of being castaway? Not even Paul spoke that way.

If you are counting your justification to be based on YOUR works instead of Christ's "act of obedience", then what assurance of even a current salvation do you have? Unless you are a qualified judge of yourself? And no one is qualified.

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

No, it's what you attribute to "OSAS". That's nothing like OSAS I've heard taught.



Where did you hear this?

Much love!

You have a habit of doing this. I have troubled myself to show you sources in the past, and I never heard anything from you in return.

If there is anything you object to from either side of the argument, then do so.

 

[marks]

You have a habit of doing this. I have troubled myself to show you sources in the past, and I never heard anything from you in return.

If there is anything you object to from either side of the argument, then do so.

To me this just comes across as a straw man. You've presented "what OSAS believes", and you argue against it, OK, just, that's nothing like what I hear as the mainstream view of OSAS, that's all.

If there is anything you object to from either side of the argument, then do so.

That's what I just did.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am learning that man is at his craftiest when trying to justify himself with God, and excuse himself from the righteous judgment of God.

Isn't that what someone is doing when they look at their own lives and declare themselves a "passing grade" with God?

Me, I'm counting on Jesus' mercy, not my righteousness, or that "I've got the goods!" (works)

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

Once

What I'm saying is this. On what basis do you declare you are not subject to that which you attribute for others?

That is . . . on what basis do you declare that you are sufficiently sanctified to not be in danger of being castaway? Not even Paul spoke that way.

If you are counting your justification to be based on YOUR works instead of Christ's "act of obedience", then what assurance of even a current salvation do you have? Unless you are a qualified judge of yourself? And no one is qualified.

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Much love!

What I'm saying is this. On what basis do you declare you are not subject to that which you attribute for others? That is . . . on what basis do you declare that you are sufficiently sanctified to not be in danger of being castaway? Not even Paul spoke that way.

And I quote Paul, and yet you are offended by it. You are not correctable.

Your unwillingness to be corrected by conviction of your own heart makes you blind to what is being said. As Paul said, so have I said, I of all people who do teach the this truth am most responsible to do it, and so I do keep my body under and my heart piure by His grace to obey His faith, lest I become a castaway.

And if I ever do turn back from the truth, it will do nothing to justify yourself. There is no 'safety in numbers' in the kingdom of heaven.

If you are counting your justification to be based on YOUR works instead of Christ's "act of obedience".

Once again, you say things you want to think you are hearing, but not what others are saying. Find any time where I speak of doing 'our works' to be justified of God. We do works of His righteousness by obeying His faith.

Then what assurance of even a current salvation do you have?

By obeying His faith to endure and overcome temptation unto the end.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Unless you are a qualified judge of yourself?

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

As I said before, we are commanded to judge ourselves.

And no one is qualified.

Speak for yourself.

Do you even read the Scripture, before trying to say something about it? Or do you only like to read what pleases your doctrinal vision of yourself?

Nevertheless, I'll not be responding to anymore of your bait. If you have correction of anything taught in the thread, one way or the other, then I'd be glad to hear it.

If it's Scripturally true.

 

[robert derrick]

To me this just comes across as a straw man. You've presented "what OSAS believes", and you argue against it, OK, just, that's nothing like what I hear as the mainstream view of OSAS, that's all.



That's what I just did.

Much love!

You are not objecting to nor correcting any point of the argument. You are arguing only about whether I got the stuff from someone else. I have provided you sources before, and never heard any response from you.

I.e. I don't care whether you believe me, that it is quoted from elsewhere.

 

[robert derrick]

Isn't that what someone is doing when they look at their own lives and declare themselves a "passing grade" with God?

Me, I'm counting on Jesus' mercy, not my righteousness, or that "I've got the goods!" (works)

Much love!

Isn't that what someone is doing when they look at their own lives and declare themselves a "passing grade" with God?

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If we know we have no 'passing grade', then how much more the righteous Lord, who shall judge everyman according to his works, whether they be good or evil.

Me, I'm counting on Jesus' mercy, not my righteousness,

Which is why you love OSAS, and not Scripture of God.

The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.

My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Since you have not the righteousness of God, neither any of your own, you have none at all.

or that "I've got the goods!" (works)

Nor the goods. Including any good works of God to be justified by.

And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

And like all OSAS, you are soooo humble about it.

Humbleness is not declaring how unrighteous we are, but about humbling ourselves before God to do something about it, and no longer rely on our unrighteousness to save us by 'grace'.

 

[marks]

And I quote Paul, and yet you are offended by it. You are not correctable.

I'm not offended, and saying so just shifts the conversation off the topic and onto me and my presumed feelings, but the reality is I'm asking you a question.

you say things you want to think you are hearing,

Intellectual dishonesty?

Your unwillingness to be corrected

Do you even read the Scripture, before trying to say something about it? Or do you only like to read what pleases your doctrinal vision of yourself?

I guess you didn't like my question.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am learning that man is at his craftiest when trying to justify himself with God, and excuse himself from the righteous judgment of God.

I'll try again.

Who is it that thinks they will be judged justified by God because they've done works? And if you are not counting on being justified by your works, does that mean you are hoping to be found justified because of your faith in Christ?

Or do you consider yourself "partly justified" by your faith in Christ, and "partly justifed" by your "works of faith"?

Doesn't an expectation of being justified or partly justified because of your works, doesn't that show a desire and intention of "self-justification", seeing that we are NOT God, and therefore do not share His righteous judgment?

There is no consolation prize for them that disobey Him.

Who is the one that does not disobey God? Because that would of necessity be a "sinless man". Who takes that title to themself? But if obedience to God is the test of salvation, then that's what you need to have, right? Obedience?

Isn't the next step in this discussion to start parsing disobedience? That a little is OK, but too much is too much, right?

Your complaint is that some seem to "self-justify", but I fail to see any difference in what you decry in others than what you are promoting in yourself.

You cite the passage, examine yourself to see that you be in the faith. If that is done by you assessing your own works, how is that not self-justifying?

Much love!

 

[Robert Gwin]

I am learning that man is at his craftiest when trying to justify himself with God, and excuse himself from the righteous judgment of God.

There is only going on to perfection in running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily to abide in Him as His disciples to bear fruit and that our joy may be full. Hebrews 12:1-2 Or else the consequence for not abiding in him is to be excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven by being left behind into the bed of the great tribulation.

Like the title of the movie, "Children of a Lesser God", this is a teaching of OSAS, that those who fall short of finishing the race of eternal life by disobedience to God, will not obtain the crown of righteousness, but will go through great tribulation and then be resurrected with the church: not as a resurrected saint reigning with Him, but only as an 'eternal underling' to serve Him.

Aside from the fact that all Christians go through tribulation to be purified and justified of God, there is no such thing as Christian 'losers' of the race, that refused to obey and serve God in this life, being forced into some kind of 'also ran' servitude to God for eternity.

This whole lunacy of forcing God to preserve and resurrect the rebellious 'believers', because of unconditional grace, is like Him being stuck with gum on His shoes for eternity.

There is no consolation prize for them that disobey Him.

I have never considered Christians as losers Rob. I guess that if God doesn't exist, and we do not receive our reward, we could be losers. But when you really think about it, living the faith gives us the best, happiest life possible don't you think? So even if we do not receive the gift of everlasting life, I still think we have the winning hand.