Christian Perfection

[robert derrick]

There is no human perfection in this world, but there is Christian perfectness of the saints.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Double-minded Christians are them that know to do good, and yet do it not, because they have yet to purify their hearts of the lust of the world.

They have perpetually besetting sin, because their minds are yet at war with the law of sin in their minds.

They have not yet taken the offensive against the law of sin by the sword of the Spirit and law of Christ. They are in a continuing defensive struggle against sin in the mind, which allows lust in the heart, and so commits sins of the body.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

The pure heart and clean mind undefiled with any thought of disobedience to Christ cannot sin the body, because no thought of it is allowed no resting place in the mind. Like the birds chased away from the sacrifice of Abraham to God: they have no hold over the heart.

Christian perfection is simply answering the call of the saints to overcome all evil with good, which warfare begins in the heart and the mind, to tear down and cast out and banish every thought of sin and of disobedience to Christ, so that the law of sin in the flesh has no more dominion over the mind, and lust has no place in the heart.

Christian perfecting is to purify our hearts and cleanse our minds of any thought of sin whatsoever, and guard our hearts and minds against them returning, so that we cannot sin, because we have no thought nor desire to do so:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

They don't just give lip-service to 'hating' sin, simply because they hate it's results: they destroy sin in the heart and mind, so that they don't do it with the body.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The pure heart and clean mind undefiled by thought and desire of sin cannot sin in the body.

It's no more possible for the perfecting Christian to openly sin, than it is for the devil to tell the truth: they are anathema to one another. There is no truth in the devil, therefore all lies are his, and there is no lust in the heart and lie in the mind of the saints, therefore no sins are theirs to commit.

Such Christians going on to perfection don't sin with the body, because they have learned obedience begins in the heart and the mind: They have learned to tear down any thought of sin and quench every dart of the devil, and to keep it so.

They bring our bodies under and keep them in subjection, by first purifying our hearts and bringing under every thought and desire for sin into the faith and obedience of Christ.

Christians seeking perfection are ever-ready to revenge against any thought of disobedience to Jesus, by destroying it when they see it coming at their minds eye. Their eye is made single, and is kept single, and so their whole heart is full of light: that is when their obedience to Christ is wholly fulfilled in the heart and in the body.

They are no longer cursing their own wretchedness of doublemindedness, because they have learned to bring every thought of the mind into subjection to the law of Christ, so that the law of sin no longer works in their bodies, because it no longer has hold in their minds, so that they can say plainly:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law of Christ is fulfilled in them that fulfill all obedience to Christ: first in the heart of an overcoming mind, then in the body of an obedient saint.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

The blessed Christians going on to perfection endure temptation and are tried only in the mind, and by defeating it soundly and casting it out and away from the heart, they cannot be drawn away of lust to sin, because it isn't anything there to draw away from obedience to Christ.

 

[Robert Gwin]

There is no human perfection in this world, but there is Christian perfectness of the saints.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Double-minded Christians are them that know to do good, and yet do it not, because they have yet to purify their hearts of the lust of the world.

They have perpetually besetting sin, because their minds are yet at war with the law of sin in their minds.

They have not yet taken the offensive against the law of sin by the sword of the Spirit and law of Christ. They are in a continuing defensive struggle against sin in the mind, which allows lust in the heart, and so commits sins of the body.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

The pure heart and clean mind undefiled with any thought of disobedience to Christ cannot sin the body, because no thought of it is allowed no resting place in the mind. Like the birds chased away from the sacrifice of Abraham to God: they have no hold over the heart.

Christian perfection is simply answering the call of the saints to overcome all evil with good, which warfare begins in the heart and the mind, to tear down and cast out and banish every thought of sin and of disobedience to Christ, so that the law of sin in the flesh has no more dominion over the mind, and lust has no place in the heart.

Christian perfecting is to purify our hearts and cleanse our minds of any thought of sin whatsoever, and guard our hearts and minds against them returning, so that we cannot sin, because we have no thought nor desire to do so:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

They don't just give lip-service to 'hating' sin, simply because they hate it's results: they destroy sin in the heart and mind, so that they don't do it with the body.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The pure heart and clean mind undefiled by thought and desire of sin cannot sin in the body.

It's no more possible for the perfecting Christian to openly sin, than it is for the devil to tell the truth: they are anathema to one another. There is no truth in the devil, therefore all lies are his, and there is no lust in the heart and lie in the mind of the saints, therefore no sins are theirs to commit.

Such Christians going on to perfection don't sin with the body, because they have learned obedience begins in the heart and the mind: They have learned to tear down any thought of sin and quench every dart of the devil, and to keep it so.

They bring our bodies under and keep them in subjection, by first purifying our hearts and bringing under every thought and desire for sin into the faith and obedience of Christ.

Christians seeking perfection are ever-ready to revenge against any thought of disobedience to Jesus, by destroying it when they see it coming at their minds eye. Their eye is made single, and is kept single, and so their whole heart is full of light: that is when their obedience to Christ is wholly fulfilled in the heart and in the body.

They are no longer cursing their own wretchedness of doublemindedness, because they have learned to bring every thought of the mind into subjection to the law of Christ, so that the law of sin no longer works in their bodies, because it no longer has hold in their minds, so that they can say plainly:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law of Christ is fulfilled in them that fulfill all obedience to Christ: first in the heart of an overcoming mind, then in the body of an obedient saint.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

The blessed Christians going on to perfection endure temptation and are tried only in the mind, and by defeating it soundly and casting it out and away from the heart, they cannot be drawn away of lust to sin, because it isn't anything there to draw away from obedience to Christ.

Christian perfection, as you stated is an oxymoron. But it will happen in the distant future.

 

[robert derrick]

Christian perfection, as you stated is an oxymoron. But it will happen in the distant future.

Try reading closer.

It is Christian perfecting of the saints, and going on to perfection, by overcoming all vain imaginations and thoughts of disobedience to Christ, from having place in the mind with lust in the heart. It is entering into the rest of Christ, by ceasing from our own works of sin and self-righteousness, by ceasing from allowing sin and vain imagination to hold sway over our souls.

Christian perfection is with the resurrection, which is to have a perfect mind and body, added to our uncorrupted soul and perfect heart for God.

The perfect mind no longer has need of warring with the law of sin, and so to stand guard over the heart from lust, because the perfect spiritual body has no law of sin in it, as does sinful flesh of natural bodies.

When we overcome and dominate by spiritual warfare the law of sin in our flesh, then we no longer need find ourselves obeying that lawof sin and death in our members:

And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

We become overcomers who are no longer doubleminded in the faith, eating both the fruit of good and of evil in our hearts and with our bodies, but now we keep the commandment to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. Which is putting on the charity of Christ in the bond of perfectness with Him, no more to walk after any of the flesh, but only after the Spirit of Life.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Try reading closer.

It is Christian perfecting of the saints, and going on to perfection, by overcoming all vain imaginations and thoughts of disobedience to Christ, from having place in the mind with lust in the heart. It is entering into the rest of Christ, by ceasing from our own works of sin and self-righteousness, by ceasing from allowing sin and vain imagination to hold sway over our souls.

Christian perfection is with the resurrection, which is to have a perfect mind and body, added to our uncorrupted soul and perfect heart for God.

The perfect mind no longer has need of warring with the law of sin, and so to stand guard over the heart from lust, because the perfect spiritual body has no law of sin in it, as does sinful flesh of natural bodies.

When we overcome and dominate by spiritual warfare the law of sin in our flesh, then we no longer need find ourselves obeying that lawof sin and death in our members:

And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

We become overcomers who are no longer doubleminded in the faith, eating both the fruit of good and of evil in our hearts and with our bodies, but now we keep the commandment to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. Which is putting on the charity of Christ in the bond of perfectness with Him, no more to walk after any of the flesh, but only after the Spirit of Life.

The point I was trying to make Robert is that even the "saints" those called to be holy ones are not yet perfect, but I fully agree with you that upon their resurrection they will be. Those who are not of that little flock however will not attain to perfection until sometime towards the end of the millennial reign of Christ. When satan is released to tempt man once again, all humans alive will be as perfect as was Adam.

 

[robert derrick]

The point I was trying to make Robert is that even the "saints" those called to be holy ones are not yet perfect, but I fully agree with you that upon their resurrection they will be. Those who are not of that little flock however will not attain to perfection until sometime towards the end of the millennial reign of Christ. When satan is released to tempt man once again, all humans alive will be as perfect as was Adam.

And the point you still make is willingly mixing the doctrine of Christ for perfecting of the saints in natural bodies, with a resurrection perfection only to come at the end of this life on this earth, whether today before His second appearing, or to morrow in millennial reign.

Every word of this teaching and exhortation is from Scripture, and none of it ever suggests the overcoming Christians become perfect, while yet in natural bodies: No Christian perfection will ever be in sinful flesh. The spiritual warfare of the soul in the heart and mind will always continue to the end, which will then be given perfect minds and bodies.

It is about entering the road to perfecting, by first purifying the heart through the cleansing of the mind, to no longer willingly entertain any intrusion of vanity nor thought and desire for sin, thus utterly defeating the law of sin from the mind by the law of Christ, and running well without the weights of embedded lusts and thoughts for sin, resulting in purging besetting sins of the body.

Righteous and true holily living in this world begins with and is accomplished by righteousness of Christ ruling over the heart, and the obedience to Christ in the mind: a mind purged of any thought of sin entering and remaining, with a heart perfect towards God without any lust abiding.

At that point, the warfare is to guard the pure heart, by keeping the mind clean, through defeating every fiery dart of the devil seeking entrance: perfect peace therefore is in the perfect heart of the perfecting saint, who's mind is stayed on the Lord, because he stays on the offensive against the devil, who has fled and no longer rules over the body by his law of sin.

The war is fully won in the mind, unconditional victory, so that there is true peace in the heart, and the body is brought under full subject to the obedience to Christ. But while yet in this earth, the counterattacks of the devil in spiritual warfare will never end.

Until the believer goes on to the perfecting of a saint, walking after the Spirit only, and no more at all after the flesh, then the believer remains in perpetual babyhood and wretchedness of doublemindedness, always on the defensive in the mind, and combating lust within the heart, which is seen time to time in the transgressing members of the body: it is the state of being double-eyed, with one eye toward doing the good law of Christ, while the other eye still opened toward performing law of sin and death with disobedience of the flesh.

Paul describes that condition in Rom 7, that can only be overcome by offensively attacking the law of sin in the mind by the law of Christ from the heart, pulling down every stronghold and casting out every thought of the devil, and so cleansing the mind of all thought of sin, and purifying the heart of all lust for sin:

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Peace and freedom of Christ is only found in the heart and the mind of the overcomer, who has done the good work of the Spirit to purify their own hearts and cleanse their own minds of the law of sin and death, which the carnal body is born of: the doublemindedness ends in peace, because the victory of total warfare is won in the mind of Christ, no more having any part of carnal mindedness in the heart.

Only total war will win it for the heart, mind, and soul, though it will not end until resurrection of the body.

If any believer is not free of the law of sin and death in their mind, they are not pure of heart, nor perfect toward God with one eye and all Light of Christ shining in the soul.

Those who are not of that little flock however will not attain to perfection until sometime towards the end of the millennial reign of Christ. When Satan is released to tempt man once again, all humans alive will be as perfect as was Adam.

Adam obviously was not perfect, nor was his heart pure and right with God, because he was plainly doubleminded and so ate of the fruit to do both good and evil himself. This 'hope of Adam' on this earth in natural bodies is a myth and a lie, used by the devil to deceive the doubleminded into thinking there may come a time 'much more favorable' and 'convenient' for them to do what we are already commanded to do today:

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

During the millennial reign of Christ, natural people will still need believe on Him by faith and not by sight, though the believers will be allowed to see His face on His throne on this earth, while we today seated in heavenly places see Him on His throne in heaven.

And they will also need overcome all things in the heart and mind, and not to be doubleminded, like as we.

The little flock is not ever called upon to 'attain to perfection' in natural bodies, because that is not possible in the flesh born of the law of sin.

Even as your responses prove, you are willingly mistaking the call for the little flock to be perfecting themselves in the faith with pure heart and overcoming mind and clean hands, and try to keep falsely calling it 'Christian perfection'.

If you want to remain in defensive doublemindedness, to continue to see in your members obedience to the law of sin, while wretchedly endeavoring to obey the law of Christ in your heart, then according to your faith, so be it unto you.

Otherwise, purify your heart fully and perfectly of all lust, by cleansing your mind of all carnal thought and vain imagination, and see the peace in your own heart that passes understanding, and the full liberty and freedom of having the mind of Christ.

Quit the holding action on the defensive and nuke everything of the devil from your mind. Fight the good fight of faith in your mind to full victory of heart and soul, and keep up the good fight offensively destroying anything the devil counterattacks with.

Jesus is the Author and Patton of our eternal salvation: "We're not holding our position. We are on the attack and wills stay on the attack. Wade into the enemy. Spill his blood. Shoot him in the belly."

Nothing short of unconditional surrender of the devil will suffice, and that is the only eternal salvation without condition.

Unconditional defeat is for the devil, by unconditional victory commanded in Christ to the overcomer.

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

One of the interesting things about Gods' Word is that the English translations can sometimes 'miss' the distinctions in usage of the same Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek words. Look at how "love" in Greek (agape) is translated to 'charity' as an example.

In particular, the use of the word 'perfect' in English misses the subtle variations of the original writers' intent. Specifically, in searching 'perfect' in the KJV, (Thank you, eSword), it comes up meaning either 'flawless' when referencing any of the Trinity, but in reference to humans, it is used to denote 'complete' or 'fulfilled'.

Look at three verses from the KJV:
2 Samuel 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.
1 Corinthians 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

The first verse shows Gods' way is perfect...eg, flawless. It's from Strongs' Concordance H8549, which means without flaw, without blemish, undefiled, whole, complete. Using 'perfect' here as meaning flawless is the most accurate translation.

The second verse talks of the 'partial', 'perfect' can only refer to being 'complete' or 'completion'.

Now look at the last verse. Does 'perfect' indicate we are 'flawless' in Christ Jesus or does it indicate we are 'complete' in Him? I've read this verse about a dozen times in the last 5 minutes deciding how it's used. I'll go with 'complete'. As any believer knows, the only time we will be 'flawless', is when we get our uncorruptable spiritual bodies when we are raptured out of here or when we die before the rapture. So, I figure the Colossians verse indicates we are 'complete' in Christ, even today, as we are filled with His Spirit.

'Perfect' in verse 2 & 3, according to Strongs Concordance, G5046, is the Greek word 'teleios' which means 'complete'.

Back in October in the 'Paul' thread post #213, I wrote a more lengthy response about 'perfect' - Paul

For what it's worth, until it was taught to me about 10 years ago, I always thought 'perfect' meant 'flawless'. Hopefully, this discussion has enlightened all it's readers on the use of 'perfect' in the Bible.

 

[robert derrick]

One of the interesting things about Gods' Word is that the English translations can sometimes 'miss' the distinctions in usage of the same Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek words. Look at how "love" in Greek (agape) is translated to 'charity' as an example.

In particular, the use of the word 'perfect' in English misses the subtle variations of the original writers' intent. Specifically, in searching 'perfect' in the KJV, (Thank you, eSword), it comes up meaning either 'flawless' when referencing any of the Trinity, but in reference to humans, it is used to denote 'complete' or 'fulfilled'.

Look at three verses from the KJV:
2 Samuel 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.
1 Corinthians 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

The first verse shows Gods' way is perfect...eg, flawless. It's from Strongs' Concordance H8549, which means without flaw, without blemish, undefiled, whole, complete. Using 'perfect' here as meaning flawless is the most accurate translation.

The second verse talks of the 'partial', 'perfect' can only refer to being 'complete' or 'completion'.

Now look at the last verse. Does 'perfect' indicate we are 'flawless' in Christ Jesus or does it indicate we are 'complete' in Him? I've read this verse about a dozen times in the last 5 minutes deciding how it's used. I'll go with 'complete'. As any believer knows, the only time we will be 'flawless', is when we get our uncorruptable spiritual bodies when we are raptured out of here or when we die before the rapture. So, I figure the Colossians verse indicates we are 'complete' in Christ, even today, as we are filled with His Spirit.

'Perfect' in verse 2 & 3, according to Strongs Concordance, G5046, is the Greek word 'teleios' which means 'complete'.

Back in October in the 'Paul' thread post #213, I wrote a more lengthy response about 'perfect' - Paul

For what it's worth, until it was taught to me about 10 years ago, I always thought 'perfect' meant 'flawless'. Hopefully, this discussion has enlightened all it's readers on the use of 'perfect' in the Bible.

The doctrine is not about being perfect and flawless, but about being made perfect and flawless: the perfecting of the saints.

However, being complete is not the same, because we are to be complete in Him: completely submitted to Him, so that we can be made perfect through this life, even as He was:

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

We are called to be saints and commanded to do the same as Jesus did in the garden: to purify our hearts and keep our minds clean of any thought of sin, to fight the good fight and to win the war in our minds first, and so win it in our bodies.

The Lord Himself experienced this warfare in the garden, when He was tempted not to obey the Father, but rather call upon legions of angels to destroy them coming to arrest, falsely accuse, and kill Him on the cross. The die had been cast, and there was nothing to stop them short of heavenly intervention, and Jesus prayed for it, but was denied it, and so He submitted Himself to the cross.

He won the war in His heart and mind, so that His body would do as He commanded it: submit His body to the unbelievers unto cruel death.

It's not about being 'flawless' or 'perfect', but about being made flawless and perfect and so being perfected in the fear of the Lord, even as Jesus was. It's about being made what God commands us to be in this world, not waiting in sin and trespass for God to magically do it to us in the next.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

God is not looking for the 'perfect' people, but for the pure hearts, clean souls, and ready minds that do not mind the things of the world of sin, but only mind the things of God in holiness and righteousness and truth.

That is the person He prepares a perfect spiritual body and mind for. We are to be perfecting ourselves unto the day we are made perfect:

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

By hearing of faith we receive the Spirit, who makes us a new creature, clean, pure, holy, sanctified, ready to live the newness of life in Christ Jesus, and it is our work to keep ourselves pure and holy in Him. If we sin, it is because we allowed the law of sin in the flesh to invade our minds and return lust to our hearts, so that we are drawn away by it to fulfill the desire of the flesh.

We are therefore commanded to purify our own hearts, as he is pure, by cleansing our minds of the law of sin, which is the commandment of the devil to disobey Christ, which law remains in our bodies unto death, or changing of the body.

The fear of the Lord is not being 'afraid of judgment', so we try not to do anything 'wrong', but is about not failing Him, coming short of His law and commandment, and of His desire for us, so that we are not set adrift in this world without knowing Him in our hearts and minds.

The warfare against us therefore is in our minds and hearts, to strive against any thought of sin taking root, to be pure and remain pure of them.

A purified saint cannot sin, because the desire for sin is not in their heart nor mind, though the law of sin remains in the body. The devil uses our own corrupted bodies against us, but through the Spirit we destroy sin in our hearts, drive it out from our minds, and subject our bodies to the law of the Spirit of Life, whether the flesh 'likes it' or not.

Being complete in Him therefore is to see all sin and thoughts of sin as He does:

Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity.

The perfecting of the saint begins when the saint wars against sin as Christ did, so that we come to the fullness of Christ's victory in the garden, where temptation was cast down, and it no more even came into His mind, even when they mocked Him to come down off the cross to prove He was God:

Which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

 

[Robert Gwin]

And the point you still make is willingly mixing the doctrine of Christ for perfecting of the saints in natural bodies, with a resurrection perfection only to come at the end of this life on this earth, whether today before His second appearing, or to morrow in millennial reign.

Every word of this teaching and exhortation is from Scripture, and none of it ever suggests the overcoming Christians become perfect, while yet in natural bodies: No Christian perfection will ever be in sinful flesh. The spiritual warfare of the soul in the heart and mind will always continue to the end, which will then be given perfect minds and bodies.

It is about entering the road to perfecting, by first purifying the heart through the cleansing of the mind, to no longer willingly entertain any intrusion of vanity nor thought and desire for sin, thus utterly defeating the law of sin from the mind by the law of Christ, and running well without the weights of embedded lusts and thoughts for sin, resulting in purging besetting sins of the body.

Righteous and true holily living in this world begins with and is accomplished by righteousness of Christ ruling over the heart, and the obedience to Christ in the mind: a mind purged of any thought of sin entering and remaining, with a heart perfect towards God without any lust abiding.

At that point, the warfare is to guard the pure heart, by keeping the mind clean, through defeating every fiery dart of the devil seeking entrance: perfect peace therefore is in the perfect heart of the perfecting saint, who's mind is stayed on the Lord, because he stays on the offensive against the devil, who has fled and no longer rules over the body by his law of sin.

The war is fully won in the mind, unconditional victory, so that there is true peace in the heart, and the body is brought under full subject to the obedience to Christ. But while yet in this earth, the counterattacks of the devil in spiritual warfare will never end.

Until the believer goes on to the perfecting of a saint, walking after the Spirit only, and no more at all after the flesh, then the believer remains in perpetual babyhood and wretchedness of doublemindedness, always on the defensive in the mind, and combating lust within the heart, which is seen time to time in the transgressing members of the body: it is the state of being double-eyed, with one eye toward doing the good law of Christ, while the other eye still opened toward performing law of sin and death with disobedience of the flesh.

Paul describes that condition in Rom 7, that can only be overcome by offensively attacking the law of sin in the mind by the law of Christ from the heart, pulling down every stronghold and casting out every thought of the devil, and so cleansing the mind of all thought of sin, and purifying the heart of all lust for sin:

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Peace and freedom of Christ is only found in the heart and the mind of the overcomer, who has done the good work of the Spirit to purify their own hearts and cleanse their own minds of the law of sin and death, which the carnal body is born of: the doublemindedness ends in peace, because the victory of total warfare is won in the mind of Christ, no more having any part of carnal mindedness in the heart.

Only total war will win it for the heart, mind, and soul, though it will not end until resurrection of the body.

If any believer is not free of the law of sin and death in their mind, they are not pure of heart, nor perfect toward God with one eye and all Light of Christ shining in the soul.

Those who are not of that little flock however will not attain to perfection until sometime towards the end of the millennial reign of Christ. When Satan is released to tempt man once again, all humans alive will be as perfect as was Adam.

Adam obviously was not perfect, nor was his heart pure and right with God, because he was plainly doubleminded and so ate of the fruit to do both good and evil himself. This 'hope of Adam' on this earth in natural bodies is a myth and a lie, used by the devil to deceive the doubleminded into thinking there may come a time 'much more favorable' and 'convenient' for them to do what we are already commanded to do today:

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

During the millennial reign of Christ, natural people will still need believe on Him by faith and not by sight, though the believers will be allowed to see His face on His throne on this earth, while we today seated in heavenly places see Him on His throne in heaven.

And they will also need overcome all things in the heart and mind, and not to be doubleminded, like as we.

The little flock is not ever called upon to 'attain to perfection' in natural bodies, because that is not possible in the flesh born of the law of sin.

Even as your responses prove, you are willingly mistaking the call for the little flock to be perfecting themselves in the faith with pure heart and overcoming mind and clean hands, and try to keep falsely calling it 'Christian perfection'.

If you want to remain in defensive doublemindedness, to continue to see in your members obedience to the law of sin, while wretchedly endeavoring to obey the law of Christ in your heart, then according to your faith, so be it unto you.

Otherwise, purify your heart fully and perfectly of all lust, by cleansing your mind of all carnal thought and vain imagination, and see the peace in your own heart that passes understanding, and the full liberty and freedom of having the mind of Christ.

Quit the holding action on the defensive and nuke everything of the devil from your mind. Fight the good fight of faith in your mind to full victory of heart and soul, and keep up the good fight offensively destroying anything the devil counterattacks with.

Jesus is the Author and Patton of our eternal salvation: "We're not holding our position. We are on the attack and wills stay on the attack. Wade into the enemy. Spill his blood. Shoot him in the belly."

Nothing short of unconditional surrender of the devil will suffice, and that is the only eternal salvation without condition.

Unconditional defeat is for the devil, by unconditional victory commanded in Christ to the overcomer.

I think I explained my position quite clearly Rob, I believe you simply disagree. Adam was in fact perfect sir, the reason the second Adam had to be sent rather than another human providing the ransom. A corresponding ransom redeems, equal for equal.

 

[robert derrick]

I think I explained my position quite clearly Rob, I believe you simply disagree. Adam was in fact perfect sir, the reason the second Adam had to be sent rather than another human providing the ransom. A corresponding ransom redeems, equal for equal.

Don't agree. If Adam had been perfect, He would not have sinned, even as Jesus chose obedience as a human rather than sin.

Perfection is of the mind and body. Adam was a living soul, as we are being born again, and his body was immoral, unlike ours, which became corrupted and mortal buy transgression, because his heart was not perfect toward God, being doubleminded.

And so, Adam had recieved an immortal body and became a living soul, but then passed on mortal bodies, corrupted hearts, defiled minds, and for souls dead upon conception.

And Eve was never said to have become a living soul as Adam was the Spirit of God: she was decieved, because she was carnally minded from the beginning.

Adam was a pitiful excuse for a believer and minister. Instead of being faithful to God himself, and winning his wife to the Lord, He ministered falsely to her, who's carnal mind did not know the difference between the Word of God and the commandments of men, even as the carnally minded do not to this day.

He also transgressed knowingly against his own conscience, which was defiled with lust allowed into the heart, which is what the born again believers are charged to guard against, so that we don't also sin after the similitude of Adam.

A doubleminded false teacher and a carnal minded decieved unbeliever. Not a good combination. Adam was unfaithful to God and set up His wife for failure before God, as well as being a coward to let her go first in the sin while he watched to see what would happen.

Adam was the man made with immortal body, who became a living soul by the Spirit, and Jesus was the Living Soul, who became a man with immortal body prepared by the Spirit, which He offered up with Himself on the cross to God for ransom of sin.

We being born again of Christ are to guard our hearts and minds to continue as Christ in our corrupted bodies, unlike Adam who became doubleminded and transgressed with his immortal body, by lust to do evil, after having done good.

 

[MatthewG]

Christian maturity comes from understanding the scriptures and knowledge of God and His Son, in my opinion. This is what is called perfection, I in my flesh still mess up when I start having that eye for lust of the naked body and go watch porn, (it’s a struggle sometimes but my flesh likes it.)

Same thing with using marijuana gummies that are legal in many different places in the country now. After using either one of these methods of entertaining my flesh their is always an empty feeling that last afterwards.

Going to God and admitting these problems helps a lot, and I know that I have been forgiven, it all depends on me and if I will give myself over to my flesh or deny my flesh and reside more to the spiritual.

This is what maturing looks like you slowly start to get away from the things you use to do, putting the flesh to be buried with Jesus yet you raise again to new life by the spirit instead.

Making some time to sit and just read and pray helps a lot to it’s not easy and anyone who says it is easy is a liar don’t believe them. Do however consider any advice they may have the best bet will be making time for God praying and reading or listening to someone read the Bible too you.

 

[dev553344]

There is no human perfection in this world, but there is Christian perfectness of the saints.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Double-minded Christians are them that know to do good, and yet do it not, because they have yet to purify their hearts of the lust of the world.

They have perpetually besetting sin, because their minds are yet at war with the law of sin in their minds.

They have not yet taken the offensive against the law of sin by the sword of the Spirit and law of Christ. They are in a continuing defensive struggle against sin in the mind, which allows lust in the heart, and so commits sins of the body.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

The pure heart and clean mind undefiled with any thought of disobedience to Christ cannot sin the body, because no thought of it is allowed no resting place in the mind. Like the birds chased away from the sacrifice of Abraham to God: they have no hold over the heart.

Christian perfection is simply answering the call of the saints to overcome all evil with good, which warfare begins in the heart and the mind, to tear down and cast out and banish every thought of sin and of disobedience to Christ, so that the law of sin in the flesh has no more dominion over the mind, and lust has no place in the heart.

Christian perfecting is to purify our hearts and cleanse our minds of any thought of sin whatsoever, and guard our hearts and minds against them returning, so that we cannot sin, because we have no thought nor desire to do so:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

They don't just give lip-service to 'hating' sin, simply because they hate it's results: they destroy sin in the heart and mind, so that they don't do it with the body.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The pure heart and clean mind undefiled by thought and desire of sin cannot sin in the body.

It's no more possible for the perfecting Christian to openly sin, than it is for the devil to tell the truth: they are anathema to one another. There is no truth in the devil, therefore all lies are his, and there is no lust in the heart and lie in the mind of the saints, therefore no sins are theirs to commit.

Such Christians going on to perfection don't sin with the body, because they have learned obedience begins in the heart and the mind: They have learned to tear down any thought of sin and quench every dart of the devil, and to keep it so.

They bring our bodies under and keep them in subjection, by first purifying our hearts and bringing under every thought and desire for sin into the faith and obedience of Christ.

Christians seeking perfection are ever-ready to revenge against any thought of disobedience to Jesus, by destroying it when they see it coming at their minds eye. Their eye is made single, and is kept single, and so their whole heart is full of light: that is when their obedience to Christ is wholly fulfilled in the heart and in the body.

They are no longer cursing their own wretchedness of doublemindedness, because they have learned to bring every thought of the mind into subjection to the law of Christ, so that the law of sin no longer works in their bodies, because it no longer has hold in their minds, so that they can say plainly:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law of Christ is fulfilled in them that fulfill all obedience to Christ: first in the heart of an overcoming mind, then in the body of an obedient saint.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

The blessed Christians going on to perfection endure temptation and are tried only in the mind, and by defeating it soundly and casting it out and away from the heart, they cannot be drawn away of lust to sin, because it isn't anything there to draw away from obedience to Christ.

I lived as a saint for some time by obeying the commandments and such. I have a mental illness which got worse and now I find it hard to do the right all the time. But for most saints it is a struggle but not impossible. I lived a worldly life and struggled at first to be right with God. And now I struggle again because I would like to be right with God and know I can do it. And I am doing it and will do it. Obeying the commandments makes God close to us and we to him. And I have missed that for a while. Not for much longer.

 

[robert derrick]

Christian maturity comes from understanding the scriptures and knowledge of God and His Son, in my opinion. This is what is called perfection, I in my flesh still mess up when I start having that eye for lust of the naked body and go watch porn, (it’s a struggle sometimes but my flesh likes it.)

Same thing with using marijuana gummies that are legal in many different places in the country now. After using either one of these methods of entertaining my flesh their is always an empty feeling that last afterwards.

Going to God and admitting these problems helps a lot, and I know that I have been forgiven, it all depends on me and if I will give myself over to my flesh or deny my flesh and reside more to the spiritual.

This is what maturing looks like you slowly start to get away from the things you use to do, putting the flesh to be buried with Jesus yet you raise again to new life by the spirit instead.

Making some time to sit and just read and pray helps a lot to it’s not easy and anyone who says it is easy is a liar don’t believe them. Do however consider any advice they may have the best bet will be making time for God praying and reading or listening to someone read the Bible too you.

Christian maturity comes from understanding the scriptures and knowledge of God and His Son, in my opinion.

Head knowledge is not maturity. Believing the Word and knowing the Scriptures in the heart and mind is not doing the Word according to the Scripture.

Knowing the truth is the beginning of wisdom to fear the Lord and to eschew evil.

Doublemindedness is the failure to obey the commandment to love God will all the heart, mind, and soul.

The fear of the Lord is the fear of failing Him and being adrift in this life, without assurance of His eternal salvation.

We must purify our hearts by cleansing our minds of all thoughts and vain imaginations for sins: to crucify the old man from our hearts, and to cast out the law of sin from our minds by the law of Christ.

This is what maturing looks like you slowly start to get away from the things you use to do.

Slowly but surely is just as good as sure and fast, so long as we continue in the race and to fight the good fight and overcome sin first in our minds and then in our bodies.

Therefore, we pray and strive over the war of the soul in our renewed minds to be free of the law of sin by the law of Christ, then we know the law of sin will not reign over our bodies, and we can truly go and sin no more.

Take up the sword of the Spirit and fight every single thought the body tries to put in your mind, and once you have pleased God with your steadfast fighting against entertaining such thoughts and imaginations, then you will see the blessed peace and rest in your cleansed mind, with not thought of lust in your purified heart.

Athletes rule their minds, that they may have rule over their bodies for a corruptible crown, we must and can do it by faith and obedience to Jesus for an incorruptible crown.

 

[robert derrick]

I lived as a saint for some time by obeying the commandments and such. I have a mental illness which got worse and now I find it hard to do the right all the time. But for most saints it is a struggle but not impossible. I lived a worldly life and struggled at first to be right with God. And now I struggle again because I would like to be right with God and know I can do it. And I am doing it and will do it. Obeying the commandments makes God close to us and we to him. And I have missed that for a while. Not for much longer.

I lived as a saint in a holiness group and was a minister of it. And yet, sin remained with me in my mind and lust in my heart, and I controlled it by battle of will in the body. We preached bodily sainthood, not by inward purity, but by iron will of obedience.

Therefore, I did not have the peace and blessed assurance promised for the saints that live righteously and holily.

Therefore, doing the commandments outward is good, but purifying the heart and cleansing the mind of sin's attraction is perfect peace on he who's mind is stayed on the Lord.

We are cleanse the inside of the cup and let the outside come clean, not to polish the outside, while the inside remains are war with itself and it's own body.

Mental illness is an infirmity of the flesh that God sees and knows, and Jesus is able to help you in it, even if He does not remove it:

For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Christian perfecting begins in the heart and the mind; therefore, we cast out the sin and lusts of the thoughts that disobey Christ from our minds. We can do that by his Spirit, and if infirmity of mind truly allows for deeds of the body without knowledge, which I have known to be so, then God's grace is sufficient for this also.

We fight where we can and what we know to fight, and God takes care of the rest.

 

[MatthewG]

Christian maturity comes from understanding the scriptures and knowledge of God and His Son, in my opinion.

Head knowledge is not maturity. Believing the Word and knowing the Scriptures in the heart and mind is not doing the Word according to the Scripture.

Knowing the truth is the beginning of wisdom to fear the Lord and to eschew evil.

Doublemindedness is the failure to obey the commandment to love God will all the heart, mind, and soul.

The fear of the Lord is the fear of failing Him and being adrift in this life, without assurance of His eternal salvation.

We must purify our hearts by cleansing our minds of all thoughts and vain imaginations for sins: to crucify the old man from our hearts, and to cast out the law of sin from our minds by the law of Christ.

This is what maturing looks like you slowly start to get away from the things you use to do.

Slowly but surely is just as good as sure and fast, so long as we continue in the race and to fight the good fight and overcome sin first in our minds and then in our bodies.

Therefore, we pray and strive over the war of the soul in our renewed minds to be free of the law of sin by the law of Christ, then we know the law of sin will not reign over our bodies, and we can truly go and sin no more.

Take up the sword of the Spirit and fight every single thought the body tries to put in your mind, and once you have pleased God with your steadfast fighting against entertaining such thoughts and imaginations, then you will see the blessed peace and rest in your cleansed mind, with not thought of lust in your purified heart.

Athletes rule their minds, that they may have rule over their bodies for a corruptible crown, we must and can do it by faith and obedience to Jesus for an incorruptible crown.

Experience ~ thank you for sharing. Head knowledge is good for one reason it would seem taking responsibility for your own actions. Knowing why you are doing certain things, what triggers are making those things come about when the experience is initiated.

Logic and reasoning is effective when used correctly, yet only can you do anything yet by relying on the Lord. Praying asking for help, making time to spend with God.

Although even so: if you don’t condemn your own self if you have faith to begin. Happy should you be right? This body will always crave to do something but the spirit given = a spirit not of timid but power, love, and self-control, right?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Don't agree. If Adam had been perfect, He would not have sinned, even as Jesus chose obedience as a human rather than sin.

Perfection is of the mind and body. Adam was a living soul, as we are being born again, and his body was immoral, unlike ours, which became corrupted and mortal buy transgression, because his heart was not perfect toward God, being doubleminded.

And so, Adam had recieved an immortal body and became a living soul, but then passed on mortal bodies, corrupted hearts, defiled minds, and for souls dead upon conception.

And Eve was never said to have become a living soul as Adam was the Spirit of God: she was decieved, because she was carnally minded from the beginning.

Adam was a pitiful excuse for a believer and minister. Instead of being faithful to God himself, and winning his wife to the Lord, He ministered falsely to her, who's carnal mind did not know the difference between the Word of God and the commandments of men, even as the carnally minded do not to this day.

He also transgressed knowingly against his own conscience, which was defiled with lust allowed into the heart, which is what the born again believers are charged to guard against, so that we don't also sin after the similitude of Adam.

A doubleminded false teacher and a carnal minded decieved unbeliever. Not a good combination. Adam was unfaithful to God and set up His wife for failure before God, as well as being a coward to let her go first in the sin while he watched to see what would happen.

Adam was the man made with immortal body, who became a living soul by the Spirit, and Jesus was the Living Soul, who became a man with immortal body prepared by the Spirit, which He offered up with Himself on the cross to God for ransom of sin.

We being born again of Christ are to guard our hearts and minds to continue as Christ in our corrupted bodies, unlike Adam who became doubleminded and transgressed with his immortal body, by lust to do evil, after having done good.

God creating imperfection would definitely account for it Robert, but I rather think it was free will rather than imperfect creation that led to sin.

 

[robert derrick]

Although even so: if you don’t condemn your own self if you have faith to begin. Happy should you be right? This body will always crave to do something but the spirit given = a spirit not of timid but power, love, and self-control, right?

if you don’t condemn your own self if you have faith to begin. Happy should you be right? This body will always crave to do something but the spirit given = a spirit not of timid but power, love, and self-control, right?

Exactly. There is now no condemnation nor shame of sin in them that are freed from the law of sin by the law of the Spirit in their minds first through the faith of Jesus, thus purifying their hearts of lust, and sanctifying their bodies from sin and trespasses.

The warfare of the soul is fought in the mind, to have the mind of Christ wholly ruled by His law, with no carnal mindedness, which is to mind the sins of the flesh, and so to obey the law of sin and death.

The law of sin is the law of the devil who commands to sin and disobey God, and the promise of keeping his law is "ye shall not surely die".

Sinful man is born of sin, with a body made of sin with the law of sin dwelling in it. Sinful flesh is born to obey sin, born with the unthinking obedience to the law of sin: Thou shalt sin. Thou must sin. Sin is good. God is evil. God hates sin, because man enjoys it, and God wants no pleasure for man to enjoy at all. God is an evil taskmaster who only cares for His own power over others. Yada yada yada.

The law of the Spirit says yes and amen to God and His righteousness, and no to sin and the devil.

 

[robert derrick]

Experience ~ thank you for sharing. Head knowledge is good for one reason it would seem taking responsibility for your own actions. Knowing why you are doing certain things, what triggers are making those things come about when the experience is initiated.

Logic and reasoning is effective when used correctly, yet only can you do anything yet by relying on the Lord. Praying asking for help, making time to spend with God.

Although even so: if you don’t condemn your own self if you have faith to begin. Happy should you be right? This body will always crave to do something but the spirit given = a spirit not of timid but power, love, and self-control, right?

The body has no free will to choose good or evil, but will naturally choose the evil over the good, and so it is with the carnal mind that cannot be subject to the law of Christ, because it will not choose righteousness over sin, but rather desires both to do some good and some evil. Christians are not good sinners, nor sinners 'made good' in the heart, yet still sinning with the body, which is double mindedness to e judged the same with all sinners and adulterers.

Once we say no to the law of sin in our minds to destroy sin by the law of the Spirit, to take the offensive in the spiritual warfare, we are on the road to the perfecting of the saints. Beforehand, there is only doubleminded confusion and disappointment and wretched self-condemnation, as described in Roman 7.

Who shall deliver us from that state of sin and shame, though yet the heart believes and the mind wars defensively against the law of sin? Jesus Christ with overcoming victory in the war: take the fight to the enemy where it begins and where it truly takes place, in the mind of Christ.

We are born by the Spirit with the mind of Christ, and so we must fight and walk accordingly to be truly Christ-like. Jesus overcame all flesh and the whole world of sinful and vain imaginations in His mind and body, and so must we, because we are commanded to do so. It is not just good to try to do so, but is necessary to do so for eternal salvation to them that obey Him only, and to them that also obey the flesh in sin. We are given the Spirit and the mind of Christ with cleansed soul, and pure heart for that very purpose unto the end.

We are born again all new in soul, heart, mind, and spirit. The body remains under bondage to sin, and it is the saints' calling, duty, and service to remain free of the law of sin in the mind, that they may rule over the body in subjection to the law of Christ.

Professionals in any calling do so in the mind from the heart, before their bodies are ever trained to master the craft and receive the prize.

Saints do so by an incorruptible calling.

 

[robert derrick]

Experience ~ thank you for sharing. Head knowledge is good for one reason it would seem taking responsibility for your own actions. Knowing why you are doing certain things, what triggers are making those things come about when the experience is initiated.

Logic and reasoning is effective when used correctly, yet only can you do anything yet by relying on the Lord. Praying asking for help, making time to spend with God.

Although even so: if you don’t condemn your own self if you have faith to begin. Happy should you be right? This body will always crave to do something but the spirit given = a spirit not of timid but power, love, and self-control, right?

The elect are the saints that are perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord: they fear failing the Lord at any time, and so in fear of the Lord they work out their own salvation by casting out all vanity and thought for sin, that they may dwell in peace on this earth, while walking after the Spirit only:

Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe.

To the devil and the carnal mind, that is proud boasting by Paul in something 'unattainable' in this life, and even heretical to exhort in, and yet is only the simple commandment of the Lord to go and sin no more.

In a false humility of will worship, they proudly proclaim their sinful natures and lives, being saved only by grace through faith alone, and count themselves most humbly 'unworthy' of it, and know not they condemn themselves as unworthy of eternal salvation by continuing in sin to disobey Him:

As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children, That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

God hears us when we fear failing Him, and so succors us to learn obedience like as He, by overcoming all the fiery darts of the wicked aimed at our hearts through our minds: the helmet of salvation that allows arrows to fly freely through is no helmet and no salvation at all.

We are born with a new soul of divine nature, a pure heart, sound mind of Christ, and Spirit of life. It is our working of salvation to circumcise and purify our hearts by cutting off the head of the old man, which is the carnal mind, and so rule rule over our mortal bodies to bring it into obedience of Christ.

We are born completely new, fresh, clean, pure, and alive by grace through the faith of Jesus, and by the Spirit we are to keep it that way, and end it that way, which is the Way of Christ.

And if, not when, but if we allow through infirmity of the flesh to become double minded in our faith, allowing room for thought of sin in the mind and lust in the heart and transgression of the body, then we by grace have an advocate with the Father to confess and repent, and to ourselves purify our own hearts, as in the beginning of our redeemed creation.

 

[robert derrick]

Experience ~ thank you for sharing. Head knowledge is good for one reason it would seem taking responsibility for your own actions. Knowing why you are doing certain things, what triggers are making those things come about when the experience is initiated.

Logic and reasoning is effective when used correctly, yet only can you do anything yet by relying on the Lord. Praying asking for help, making time to spend with God.

Although even so: if you don’t condemn your own self if you have faith to begin. Happy should you be right? This body will always crave to do something but the spirit given = a spirit not of timid but power, love, and self-control, right?

The Lord does not do the working out of our salvation for us. He saved us in the beginning by grace. It is the saints who work out their salvation and purify their hearts with God through the faith of Jesus and by the power of the Spirit of Life.

Perfect peace hath he who's mind is stayed on Thee, who have the mind of Christ stayed on the forefront of the battle against the law of sin in the mind, whensoever it may rage from the body.

This is neither mind nor thought control by the will of man. We don't control sins of the flesh in the mind, we cast them out altogether, that only the peace and rest and righteousness of Christ remains in the minds of them that have His mind.

Neither do we war with the body against sins of the flesh. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, by mighty through God by the Spirit. We are more than conquerors, who conquer their bodies for corruptible crowns, but we are overcomers, who put the body down and keep it under by the Spirit from a pure heart and mind at peace with God.

We enter into the rest of God with the soul and body at rest, while the mind is vigilant to keep the heart pure of lust by casting down every thought of disobedience to Christ.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
(Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

We do not practise 'will worship', where we live by zero-tolerance policies and commandments of men to touch not, taste, not eat not, drink not...which satisfies the ego and pride of the carnal mind, but is of no service nor pleasure to Christ and brings no honor to God.

Adam and Eve lived by such a rule of 'neither shall ye touch it', as though it were the rule of Christ and commandment of God, and became proud in their garden living of 'perfection', and so became double minded toward God, and chose to have knowledge of the good and the evil, to do both good and evil in the sight of God.

Saints are neither double minded in the faith of Jesus to walk in His steps only, nor are they hermits and monks and creatures of iron will and discipline by their own force, separating themselves from all things needful and useful to the body in this life.

Saints in Christ Jesus are both professors and professionals in the faith of eternal salvation, perfecting righteous living on this earth while yet enjoying all things richly, knowing that nothing is unclean of itself, but that we will not be brought under bondage to it by the body, through the mind, and in the heart.

Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy.

Like Jesus, saints know how to do all things well, and simply go about doing good as he did, without doing any evil of sin. All sin is evil, because all sin is transgression of the law of Christ, which only comes by evil lust in the heart of them who are double minded in the faith.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Saints do not live the perfect life in the flesh, but they certainly are living the Life of Christ, being made perfect in fear of the Lord by suffering the attacks of the flesh, yet without sin conceived in the mind and taking root in the heart:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

No man is tempted of God but of his own lust in the heart; therefore, no man is drawn and enticed of temptation, when the heart is pure from lust, because the mind is cleansed from abiding thoughts of sin.

We were created anew that way, and so we are the ones who work with God by the Spirit to keep it that way, that we too may obtain eternal salvation as them gone before, who endured all things to the end, even as Jesus to the cross.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

 

[robert derrick]

God creating imperfection would definitely account for it Robert, but I rather think it was free will rather than imperfect creation that led to sin.

Things keep coming up that I see no Scripture for, but only is from a certain way of reading them by a certain pretaught doctrine.

No Scripture ever says God 'created imperfection', which means He did not create an imperfect christ, who was made perfect by sufferings, so that God deified Him with resurrection.

Jesus was not Hercules of Jehovah returned in the flesh.

Lucifer created 'imperfection', when by pride of heart he made himself imperfect. God allows His creature to become imperfect, but he does not make them so.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God did not create evil doing and lying and fornicating and murder...

God's law says all killing is evil. The act is not a good thing, but an evil thing.

However, God did do an evil thing, that he took no pleasure in, that good may come. He did kill all human beings and creatures of the earth, save them on the ark. That was an evil thing God did. Not a good thing done, except that it was done for the good, to save Noah of faith, who had found grace to help in time of need by the flood, which saved him from the wicked.

The ark did not save Noah from the flood, but rather the flood saved Noah from the wicked. God flooded out the wicked, which was an evil thing, not just because He enjoyed killing the wicked, which he takes no pleasure in their deaths, but so that He could save the good.

It was the best defense by a perfect offense.

So, God creates all things perfect, but allows the perfect to make themselves evil, by rebelling against Him.

His all power is that He can allow His own perfect creatures to become imperfect by their sin, and yet will fulfill His will perfectly in the end, so that none of His perfect creatures in the new heaven and new earth will ever sin again unto imperfection.

but I rather think it was free will rather than imperfect creation that led to sin.

The only imperfect creation was a lie, which the devil is the father of, not God.

Free will is demonstration of God's complete sovereignty over all things, in that He will allow them that make themselves imperfect by sin of the heart, to continue therein for a season by grace, before destruction or salvation.

Sin in the heart leads to sin of the body.

Neither of which were created by God, who creates the heart perfect in Christ, and the body perfect in resurrection for them that remain of perfect heart toward Him, to obey Him in heart, mind, and body.

Christian souls are created perfectly new and clean by God, and it is the Christian duty to keep their souls clean in Christ through His faith and by His spirit, that they may have part in a perfect resurrection.