Christian Suffering

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theefaith

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Suffering is a Necessary part of Salvation!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Our principal means of dying is baptism!

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


More. Verses about suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
 

DNB

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Suffering is a Necessary part of Salvation!
Patience Implies suffering!
In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!
Our principal means of dying is baptism!
I'm not sure how you equate baptism with suffering, for I personally feel that, superficially, they are antagonistic to one another. Baptism implies both purification (water baptism symbolically), and empowerment (Holy Spirit/Fire baptism). Whereas suffering is the ugly, or ignoble part of being a Christian. Again, superficially speaking.

But, all the same, you brought up an extremely profound and lofty principle that either eludes many of us (prosperity gospel), or intimidates a great many of us. Myself being of the latter demograph.
How elated were the apostles shortly after Pentecost, to be found worthy to suffer for the name of Christ! Paul, while in prison, had more concern for the Ephesians, Colossians and Philippians than for himself, not thinking it of any relevance to complain about his incomparable sufferings for the Lord. How I wish that I had as much devotion and faith, with my mind set on heaven and God's grace, to consider my time on earth as worthless and to no avail for finding peace. And that the only worthwhile endeavour is to live and die for Christ, with the anticipation that you will invariably elicit hostility from the children of this world.

I pray for such a disposition, but I can by no means claim that I have attained to such a spiritually mature character.
You are speaking of very lofty, but incumbent and definitive, principles, theefaith.
 

theefaith

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Suffering implies a dying to self, as in deny thyself take up thy cross and in baptism we die with Christ
 

DNB

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Suffering implies a dying to self, as in deny thyself take up thy cross and in baptism we die with Christ
No one dies to Christ in Baptism, theefaith. That's complete nonsense. It's nothing more than a superficial ritual. Get serious, dying to oneself and this world is an extremely mature disposition to take, very few achieve it. Quit making the wisdom and power of God out to be a child's game.
 

WaterSong

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No one dies to Christ in Baptism, theefaith. That's complete nonsense. It's nothing more than a superficial ritual. Get serious, dying to oneself and this world is an extremely mature disposition to take, very few achieve it. Quit making the wisdom and power of God out to be a child's game.
You may wish to read that part you quoted of theefaith again. He never said we die in Baptism to Christ.
 

theefaith

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No one dies to Christ in Baptism, theefaith. That's complete nonsense. It's nothing more than a superficial ritual. Get serious, dying to oneself and this world is an extremely mature disposition to take, very few achieve it. Quit making the wisdom and power of God out to be a child's game.

just quoting scripture?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
 

DNB

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You may wish to read that part you quoted of theefaith again. He never said we die in Baptism to Christ.
Incidental to the point. No one dies in, to, with, around, Christ during water baptism. That expression is figurative in prescribing what is intended of us. These principles are extremely hard to achieve, and everyone thinks that they have acquired it just because of the promise or command, but without the comprehension or effort. This was the point that was being referred to,
 

DNB

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just quoting scripture?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
These are ideals, not current dispositions. We are to gain the understanding in order to achieve these sentiments, they do not come simply by confessing Christ, or especially, by immersion in water. Wisdom and humility acquires insight and fortitude.