Christian Superstition

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tabletalk

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One definition: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation (if I say or do this rightly, then such and such must happen).

Examples:
1. Belief that the Eucharist (bread and wine of Communion) is your God (the physical object is worshipped).

2. Statements like: You've nullified faith (for a healing, etc.) if you say 'Thy will be done' or 'if it be Thy will' or 'according to Thy will'.
 

VictoryinJesus

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One definition: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation (if I say or do this rightly, then such and such must happen).

Examples:
1. Belief that the Eucharist (bread and wine of Communion) is your God (the physical object is worshipped).

2. Statements like: You've nullified faith (for a healing, etc.) if you say 'Thy will be done' or 'if it be Thy will' or 'according to Thy will'.

Can you explain number 2? No "ifs", but why is "Thy will be done"? Superstitious?

Isn't "thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth" praying for the Spirit to come and fill man?

John 17:22-25 KJV
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. [24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. [25] O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
 

Ally.s.j

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One definition: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation (if I say or do this rightly, then such and such must happen).

Examples:
1. Belief that the Eucharist (bread and wine of Communion) is your God (the physical object is worshipped).

2. Statements like: You've nullified faith (for a healing, etc.) if you say 'Thy will be done' or 'if it be Thy will' or 'according to Thy will'.
Your words are life and death. That is you have the power of life and death in your tounge. This is for Believers and unbelievers. we are all created in the image of God.
 

bbyrd009

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Can you explain number 2? No "ifs", but why is "Thy will be done"? Superstitious?

Isn't "thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth" praying for the Spirit to come and fill man?
ergo statements like "you've nullified faith if you say this" are superstitious, is imo what he was saying
 
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VictoryinJesus

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ergo statements like "you've nullified faith if you say this" are superstitious, is imo what he was saying

Yes, by why does "thy will be done" cancel out faith? I have seen others say it also so I would like to try to understand their perspective, at least why they believe so.
Jesus said "thy will be done" to the Father, so how is what his words become a myth?
 

bbyrd009

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i read it wrong the first time too :)
Yes, by why does "thy will be done" cancel out faith?
well it doesn't of course, at least imo, this is how we are told to pray, "You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it" so as to why ppl believe something that is not true,
I have seen others say it also so I would like to try to understand their perspective, at least why they believe so.
well, i guess sword or @Ally.s.j could answer this better; my answer would not be taken very well
 
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bbyrd009

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Jesus said "thy will be done" to the Father, so how is what his words become a myth?
indeed, but no one can get rich and famous that way, i guess. i need you to believe God gave me the power, see, in order to justify myself, is the unkind answer. A better reflection might be that we are told to be on the lookout for someone who has entered the holy of holies, not realizing that that is where we all sit, at least as natural mature adults, who say "that is this, and this has to be that."
 
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DPMartin

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Can you explain number 2? No "ifs", but why is "Thy will be done"? Superstitious?

Isn't "thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth" praying for the Spirit to come and fill man?

John 17:22-25 KJV
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. [24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. [25] O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

"Isn't "thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth" praying for the Spirit to come and fill man?"


nope not really, thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven is simply that man is made to execute God's Judgements in the earth. and man can't do that without a relationship with God which the original relationship was: (take note the Life Jesus has being Son of God, and how that was fulfilled in the flesh, hence in the earth.)

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

and that life is the life Adam and Eve died from that day, and was left with the life of the flesh hence dust to dust, like the animals that were made before them, or already there in the earth.

therefore this process now is to restore the relationship with as many souls that would be according to God "the Fathers Will"
 
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tabletalk

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Can you explain number 2? No "ifs", but why is "Thy will be done"? Superstitious?

Isn't "thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth" praying for the Spirit to come and fill man?

John 17:22-25 KJV
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. [24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. [25] O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

Sorry, I should have made that clearer. "Thy will be done" is not superstitious.
The issue that I think is superstitious is when someone says: Don't say 'Thy will be done', as if they think faith is nullified by that statement, or faith is lost at that point.
 

Ally.s.j

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Sorry, I should have made that clearer. "Thy will be done" is not superstitious.
The issue that I think is superstitious is when someone says: Don't say 'Thy will be done', as if they think faith is nullified by that statement, or faith is lost at that point.
I got understood and agree with what you said. I would add to it. People often say will you stand in faith with me for this. But If you had a musterd seed of faith you dont need anyone to stand with you. Your already out of faith and looking for help. why in case it doesnt work.
 

Helen

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Yes, by why does "thy will be done" cancel out faith? I have seen others say it also so I would like to try to understand their perspective, at least why they believe so.
Jesus said "thy will be done" to the Father, so how is what his words become a myth?

I said it yesterday...so I will answer here.

IF we add "thy will be done" at the end of the prayer..why pray?
I am talking about prayers of deliverance and prayers for healing.

We know that God sent Jesus to pay the price for our healing..and our deliverance. He did not send the sickness, neither did He said the demon spirits to torment. So we know His will = deliverance and healing.

So in my book when I pray these prayers , whatever they are ...we are not "praying in faith" if we tag on- " If it be Thy will". Faith does not have an IF in it!
As Ally's said already today...'life and death are in the power of our tongue.'
We are told we are co-worker with God...so should be old enough to run Dad's business with authority.
There is a time in our life when we grow up and no longer have to say to Father, what clothes should I wear today? We know His will, He gives us His authority saying- "go in my name"..we use His Name in authority.
Second guessing and saying- " If what I am praying is your will..etc" has no authority in it. And then people wonder why their prayers are not answered.

As for the prayer Jesus taught the disciple's that includes " they will be done on earth as it is in heaven...does not have an IF in it...Jesus is teaching them to pray with authority. Thy will Father BE DONE on earth... I say that almost every day...knowing the Enemy is always listen...I love to pray in his face.. "Father God, I declare Your Will on this earth..." " I declare Your Kingdom, COME. "
And the devil can get a load of that...!! The Day is coming!

Not saying anyone has to believe as I do..but go and ask God with an open, not closed pre-convinced ear, just what He thinks of the- " If it be Thy will prayers.."
 

VictoryinJesus

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I said it yesterday...so I will answer here.

IF we add "thy will be done" at the end of the prayer..why pray?
I am talking about prayers of deliverance and prayers for healing.

We know that God sent Jesus to pay the price for our healing..and our deliverance. He did not send the sickness, neither did He said the demon spirits to torment. So we know His will = deliverance and healing.

So in my book when I pray these prayers , whatever they are ...we are not "praying in faith" if we tag on- " If it be Thy will". Faith does not have an IF in it!
As Ally's said already today...'life and death are in the power of our tongue.'
We are told we are co-worker with God...so should be old enough to run Dad's business with authority.
There is a time in our life when we grow up and no longer have to say to Father, what clothes should I wear today? We know His will, He gives us His authority saying- "go in my name"..we use His Name in authority.
Second guessing and saying- " If what I am praying is your will..etc" has no authority in it. And then people wonder why their prayers are not answered.

As for the prayer Jesus taught the disciple's that includes " they will be done on earth as it is in heaven...does not have an IF in it...Jesus is teaching them to pray with authority. Thy will Father BE DONE on earth... I say that almost every day...knowing the Enemy is always listen...I love to pray in his face.. "Father God, I declare Your Will on this earth..." " I declare Your Kingdom, COME. "
And the devil can get a load of that...!! The Day is coming!

Not saying anyone has to believe as I do..but go and ask God with an open, not closed pre-convinced ear, just what He thinks of the- " If it be Thy will prayers.."


I agree there is no "if." The rest we may disagree on. The Lord is not going to give either of us anything that will destroy us; our definition of what destroys are not the same.

Hebrews 2:10 KJV
[10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
 

Miss Hepburn

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Don't we know what God's Will is ...plain and clear?
Don't we know what His promises are?
Just sayin'.
 
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Helen

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Don't we know what God's Will is ...plain and clear?
Don't we know what His promises are?
Just sayin'.

Yes for sure...to be this far along the road and not know...shame on us.
 
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pia

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Yes for sure...to be this far along the road and not know...shame on us.
But how could we possibly know it all ? Do we know all there is to know about our physical universe ? I think not hahaha, and out Father is much much bigger / more than that....We know that His will is to first of all, believe in His Son so we can be saved and for all of us to treat one another as we ourselves would like to be treated, and for us to have abundant LIFE in our lives......If we could even all come together on those few things and put away all the strife and arguing about what everyone assumes Gods will is overall, I do believe we could be a much better example to the world and give honor to our Father...
 

Helen

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But how could we possibly know it all ? Do we know all there is to know about our physical universe ? I think not hahaha, and out Father is much much bigger / more than that....We know that His will is to first of all, believe in His Son so we can be saved and for all of us to treat one another as we ourselves would like to be treated, and for us to have abundant LIFE in our lives......If we could even all come together on those few things and put away all the strife and arguing about what everyone assumes Gods will is overall, I do believe we could be a much better example to the world and give honor to our Father...

Pia..that one liner was in connection with my post #13.
I doubt when you heard that your grandson was laying on the brink of life and death...and needed a miracle and healing , you all prayed fervently and added at the end- " IF it be thy will."
Did you doubt what the will of God was for your grandson...
 
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amadeus

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Don't we know what God's Will is ...plain and clear?
Don't we know what His promises are?
Just sayin'.
On many things perhaps we should know, but on some things it may not be so clear. If we are not always in touch with God or we don't completely understand all of His written message to us then likely we will not know His will for the moment for a given situation.

How often, if ever, should a person pray the prayer of King Hezekiah to obtain and extension on his carnal life? [II Kings 20:1-11, Isaiah 38:1-8]
 

pia

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@"ByGrace" Sorry if I offended, was not my intent, I just think sometimes we are hard on ourselves unnecessarily and knowing all of our Fathers will may not be as easy as we think :)........In relation to my grandson, it wasn't until he had already been in surgery for two hours when I got the call about his situation, and the operation was still going....The second I hung up the phone it was exactly the same as the night he was born.....It was as if The Lord Himself prayed through my mouth, just a quick couple of sentences followed by complete peace.....No, I did not end my prayer with " IF it be Thy will ?", because I know Him well enough to know that it is NOT His will, that the enemy should bring such grief and suffering into any persons life, as I am certain you also know.........Besides, Jesus was obviously already 'on the job' when my grandson fell, as everyone is astounded that he didn't break any bones, not to mention that having landed on his head, that his head hadn't gone the way of a water melon having fallen the same height...........His will is ALWAYS for good so we need never wonder if God is willing to help with something or someone which is for good, because His answer will always be a solid 'YES', so as long as we can have our faith in Him and not doubt, He can then DO...Any which way I look at it (and believe me it has been on my mind a whole lot, as you can probably imagine ) , The Lord did this on His own ( protecting him during the fall), prior to Lyall going to the hospital and I feel certain, that if I or any other believer had known prior to him going into surgery, he may not even have needed that surgery, so I really want to keep searching the Lord for real understanding, of how He sometimes can do things without us asking first, and other times it seems we have to verbalize the request......To make it stand out even more for me...On the exact same day Lyall fell off that cliff, my best friends husbands nephew fell of a shed roof, he ended up breaking quite a few bones as well as 3 vertebrae in his neck....He is still in the hospital now, able to only raise his arms partly and with almost no grip in his hands and his legs aren't working...as well as that he has confusion and anger outbursts, which is apparently not like him.....So go figure ??? Another one I heard which happened recently, was a young man of 17 ( can't recall exactly where this was ) who was , just like my grandson, taking photographs...He leaned over slightly to take a photo of an abandoned elevator shaft and he fell 15 FEET and was killed instantly.....Lyall fell more than 15 meters....Nobody would be able to convince me that God wasn't to thank for that, and I feel certain you would be the first to agree......But I sure would love to gain more understanding and insight to our Fathers ways and abilities and the how's of why and how we often block Him making it impossible for Him to do what His will is, as we have to agree with His will of course......Sorry I'm rambling now haha.....Anyhow I'm off for a bit, got friends coming in about 15 minutes...have a good day :D
 
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