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Featured Christians and Guns

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality Forum' started by Jon Mathews, May 29, 2019.

  1. Jon Mathews

    Jon Mathews Active Member

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    I find it interesting that Jesus

    A) Told His disciples to buy weapons (Luke 22:36)
    B) Told them not to use them (John 18:11)

    It's as if God allows his sheepdogs to bear their teeth, but doesn't want them actually biting.

    God has allowed me to own guns, and I used them to protect people and myself by showing the attackers my weapon, which always was enough to scare them away (Praise God!). But now God has taken them away and I cannot own them.

    As I read Foxes Book of Martyrs, I find it amazing that none of them took up weapons. They had decided beforehand that they would not fight with weapons to save their own lives or even the lives of their loved ones.

    It's an interesting subject to me, as I believe we have a right by God's Law to defend our lives and other's lives with weapons, but Jesus and all the early Church show us the greater Way of yielding up our lives and the Right to defend ourselves for the sake of God.

    What do you think? Would you as a Christian be willing to lay down your weapons and follow Christ even knowing they will kill you and even though you have the God-given right to defend yourself? Would you STILL be willing to lay down your life for Christ?
     
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  2. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Sacrifice myself... maybe. My family? Never. Someone who goes after my loved ones just might wake up in Hell.
     
  3. Not me

    Not me Well-Known Member

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    It is a very interesting subject, I have questioned this on more than one occasion.

    Scripture says;

    “do not return evil for evil.”

    Question is;

    Is it evil to defend yourself from evil?

    Or;

    Is it evil to not defend the widows and orphans?

    Scripture says;

    Romans 12:18 (NKJV)
    If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

    Seems to me, “If possible” and “as much”.... Leaves room for defense.

    (my ponderings before God)

    Blessings,

    Much love in Christ, Not me
     
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  4. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Those who seek peace with evil are seeking not the peace they profess, but slavery.
     
  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    We need to distinguish between martyrdom [suffering and death for our faith and witness in Christ and God (as in Foxe's Book)] and self-defense and defense of family,friends, etc. under other circumstances (which is perfectly legitimate).
     
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  6. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    I live in the UK , so do not have a gun- but if someone was attacking me or my family I would not hesitate to use anything I had to defend myself, kitchen knives, bats ect.
    It you believe , as Christians, that you should not defend others then you have to consider all those who are in the armed forces, police, all the ordinary people that joined up to fight in the world wars - did they not do that to defend others. What if someone is getting mugged, raped, ect - do you think God would want you to just stand by and ignore it.
    I don't think we should instigate things, so agree that we should endeavour to live in peace.
    I don't believe we should renounce our faith, or align with others if it means our lives would be saved, and that's a hard one to even consider or ever want to face, but many have had to face it.
    Rita
     
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  7. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Concerning (John 18:11) Christ's mission at this time was to go to the Cross. (Matt. 16:21-23) To try and stop it now was to interfere with God's plan.

    While Christ and his disciples were preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel, they needed nothing. Christ was physically present with them and would supply any needs or protection. That offer of the kingdom was rejected by Israel and now Christ goes to the Cross. In the absence of the King, the disciples will have to seek their own provisions and protection. (Luke 22:35-36)

    Therefore, we as Christians have every right before God to defend ourselves from people who would do us wrong. When one breaks into your home to steal and kill, he is not doing it because you are a Christian. He is just doing it because he is a criminal doing wrong. The laws of our land allow you to defend yourself.

    In Foxes book of Martyrs the persecutions, if I remember right, were state sanctioned against the Christians. Thus it was illegal to be whatever type of Christian was being martyred. Their identity with Christ is what is in question.

    In our country, USA, I have no problem with people wearing a gun to church. We are protected under the laws of the land. But neither do I have a problem with anyone who doesn't want to wear a gun to church.

    If I could not own a gun, I think I would at least have a couple of good crossbows at home.

    Stranger
     
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  8. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    One of the Themes of Scripture IS to Be Prepared.

    Having a Sword was being Prepared.
    Striking FIRST is not Defense.

    BEING IN Christ is being Prepared.
    Preparedness IN that Sense; IS to releive one of having NO concern, of what an other can DO to your BODY (which is sentenced to Death anyway); BUT that, such a Prepared man, IS relieved THAT an other, can influence you, or cause your SOUL & SPIRIT, to be Separated FROM GOD.

    Wouldn't agree. Would rather say it is ABOUT circumstances and applicability.
    Avoidances is a mans FIRST Defense...
    (As several times we are taught JESUS, ducked out and departed from His Accusers).
    Words are a mans SECOND Defense...
    (Jesus spoke boldly standing up for His own Doctrine.....and at Times thereafter, offered NO WORDS, to Defend Himself, full well knowing they WOULD KILL His BODY....but that they Could DO NOTHING, to His SOUL, His SPIRIT).

    I would say, my desire and wallet has allowed me to own guns.

    I use mine for enjoyment of target accuracy, not much in hunting game, but also for Preparedness of Defense, should a situation present itself.

    How so?

    But you just said, you can not own weapons.

    Jesus' message was Be Prepared.
    Jesus' message was to Submit to Authority.
    Jesus' Deeper message was to Submit to the Authority of GOD, and thereafter there is NOTHING a "MAN" of Authority can DO TO your SOUL, your SPIRIT.

    I have already LAID DOWN MY LIFE FOR Christ. (Crucified WITH Christ).

    Lay down my "Bodlily" LIFE for a THIEF sneaking into My Home? No.
    (A THIEF is NOT the Authority in my home).

    Put myself in the first Line of Defense to Protect my Family? Yes.

    Give myself willingly over to Authorities, full well knowing the Harsh treatment is exacted BEFORE a JUST conclusion? Yes.

    Be worried about a JUST or UNJUST outcome?
    No. I am Already JUSTIFIED IN Christ.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  9. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    But, isn’t it God’s job to protect us?
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I am a gun owner...ex-target shooter and ex-hunter. To me it is a sport. I wouldn't think of hurting people with guns or knives or other potential weapons. I can also swing at a baseball without thinking of a bat as a weapon to hurt others with.

    The example of the Swiss (who are avid shooters) shows that a strong gun culture such as they have...with basically no gun crime...has nothing to do with crime or hurting others. Murders proceed from the heart. Not everybody is responsible enough to own a gun. Guns don't kill people...it's the bullets.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  11. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Want to explain that to your wife, standing over her grave? Not me.
     
  12. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I walk my dog with my stepdaughter who has special needs, every night. We have a rule - if someone approaches us in a threatening way or she feels unsafe, she needs to keep walking to the nearest door and knock, and let the people know she is frightened, while I respond to the person. She has had to follow this advice twice.....once the person had a weapon. Neither time did the aggressor follow her and if he did I would have stopped him. De-escalation worked in both cases.
     
  13. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    You play things your way, and I'll handle them mine.
     
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  14. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    We had guns in Australia and no one thought anything of it at all to see one, but now people are hysterical over guns to the point of insanity, because they have been brainwashed.
    But as for all the drugs and degenerates we now have, we had to make laws about such, not that it will stop the problems but hopefully reduce the smaller fry general problems, but any moronic bastard can get a gun if they want to.

    I remember when the cops never had a gun on them, but now they are armed to the teeth with good reason, because it's society that has gone to the pack with all the Socialist lefty's encouraging the degenerates and undermining Christianity for years.

    It's all been about creating a 3dr rate trashy people, so the Satanic socialist can enslave all the people, I remember we once had such freedoms in Australia and they have been working on eroding such for years and slowly but surly the satanic socialist will totally dominate.
     
  15. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    My grandfather was a national shooting champion. And a gunsmith. My father an avid hunter, marksman, and gunsmith. My brother the youngest captain ever of his school shooting team which won a national trophy. I for a time dabbled in target shooting and hunting and did alright. I grew up surrounded by guns, rifles, pistols, and all manner of antiques and oddities in firearms, ammunition etc etc. I would get a clip over the ear by my dad if I ever pointed as much as a stick at anyone. The violent culture we live in today, in families, neighbourhoods, cities and nations, has nothing to do with guns. The reason the world is in such a shambles today is because of society's rejection of God.
    Now, should a Christian defend himself against an attacker. Absolutely. And I would have no issue if he used a firearm to do so. I would have even less issue if he used a weapon of any sort to defend someone else, using reasonable force to do so. Whatever it takes. And if the attacker dies as a result of injury, all potential victims in the future are also set free.
    That said, I do not agree that Christians should take up arms in war unless in cases of literal invasion. But even then, there are ways to serve without taking up arms. War, particularly in a foreign land, is for causes that are way beyond the parameters that I could personally justify.
     
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  16. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I am in favor of gun ownership - for sport.

    We need regulation. No one needs an AK47 or any other assault rife - for one, it adds credibility to making our police force into paramilitary - the same people afraid of black helicopters in the 90s are contributing to a reality
     
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  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I hope that the movie "Hacksaw Ridge" helped people to see the alternative to active participation in killing and brutality.

    In the movie the main character wouldn't even touch a rifle. I would have no trouble with that. I don't see guns as evil. So for the most part I think he went too far. That was his stand....which is to be respected.

    But I agree that as a Christian I'm here to save people not kill them. :)

    Oh...and I don't believe it's even right to shoot at a human shaped target. So I draw the line there. In the gun club I was a member of there were no human or animal shapes allowed.

    Maybe our southern neighbours have become somewhat desensitized to killing people because they are always practicing to do it??!!! (with the human form targets)
     
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  18. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I love the argument about AK-47's. Most people haven't the slightest idea what they are even arguing against. Other than the fact that no public weapon needs to be fully automatic (which any NRA member agrees with) an AR-47 is identical to most rifles we have had since I was a child, 70+ years ago. The only difference is the shape of the stock. And no fully automatic versions are ever (legally) sold to the public...… though they are totally necessary for our military.
     
  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting Active Member

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    There are good fake guns that will do the same job. Just don't tell anyone.
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting Active Member

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    Here in the far north, city dwellers shoot others at the drop of a hat.
     
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