Christians are mystics - we connect with God with our hearts

[FollowHim]

14 The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation.
15 Shouts of joy and victory resound in the tents of the righteous: "The LORD's right hand has done mighty things!
16 The LORD's right hand is lifted high; the LORD's right hand has done mighty things!"
Psalm 118:14-16

7 The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped. My heart leaps for joy and I will give thanks to him in song.
8 The LORD is the strength of his people, a fortress of salvation for his anointed one.
Psalm 28:7-8

8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:8-9

26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 14:26

14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Cor 2:14

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8:9

Someone mentioned to me that I was too mystical. It made me think the opposite that some believe being born from God, knowing Jesus is the Messiah is not a mystical experience.
If we are born from an imperishable seed, then this must be something within the spiritual realm, something eternal, something we discover like a baby discovers life. Paul says this

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
2 Cor 5:17

Jesus says this of us

3 I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
John 3:3-6

Paul describes the effect of this change as going from

18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Rom 6:18

This is a profound change. It is also not a once off event, but rather a growth from a seed, something that starts small and comes to fill every aspect of ones life.

 

[Josho]

Wonderful post, and yes I agree we connect with God with our hearts.

 

[Josho]

In fact I was just thinking earlier today about Christian Celtic spirituality.

These people like to sit in the quiet in the presence of the Lord, and wait on Him, the Holy Spirit will then sometimes speak to them and sometimes not. It's about developing a closeness to God, getting closer to God, connecting with Him.

 

[Episkopos]

Building a bridge can be a tricky thing. A group of workers begins on the one side and another group on the other side of the river bank....hopefully to join up in the middle in a precise way.

Now the Christian walk is like that too except for the added difficulty of there being fog and mist of it being in another dimension... and this makes building there a lot harder. It's like working blind while listening to instructions. So there is a real challenge in getting things just right.

The same goes for building a road from one place to the other. In real life there have been huge discrepancies that have had to be made up for by adding in curves and deviations to make the roads meet up.

And that's when we can see things clearly.

So then a person can get a lot of ideas while reading the bible. An analytical person can realize that love is paramount...essential...and go about adding that in as the main building apparatus...well at least in theory. It's a lot easier to get a religious formula right than to actually love others.

But being careful and clever regarding the law of God can be a dangerous endeavour.

If the bible is presenting us with a game...then there will be good players. There will be good actors. In the time of Christ there were such good actors...the Pharisees. Jesus counseled people to do as they say (a good theoretical approach was noted)...but not as they do.

So all this to say...there is way that seems right...a way of love and that seems to be grounded in an understanding of God that makes sense to the individual...that puts the individual in control...since the game has been so figured out.

But God in truth is still left out. God is not part of the game. And an encounter with Jesus and truth messed up the religious notions of they who played the game well in His time. It revealed the lack of truth in they who were doing the building.

And likewise today....with the new age idea of love BEING God...and growth in that IDEA is the same as growth in Christ....can seem mystical. And doing this seems to at least obey the law to love others as ourselves. But is that really happening? Or is pride being fueled in the advancement of one's soul in "love"?

But the truth is according to power and a real connection to God in heaven. That is the other end of the road being built towards mankind. And one can discern where the other end of the road is going when faced with the holy God doing the building towards us.

The truth is according to an actual entrance into the Spirit. To walk as Jesus walked. To be dead to self...not possessing a heightened sense of the game. What is being built? If the structure seems solid that doesn't make the origins from heaven. Wood is solid...but it does burn. All materials that are not from heaven...and eternal (in more than theory) will burn up.

Now there is nothing wrong with loving others...or trying to love others. There is nothing wrong with trying to be pleasing to God.

It's the acting thing and the pride it fosters in a man that God hates. And it is revealed by how one reacts to the gospel that is according to power and presence.

So can we improve our fleshly conduct in the world. Of course....the new age movement is all about that...improving our humanity.

But improving our humanity and becoming more loving by the wrong power doesn't lead you to the kingdom of God.

No man can improve himself into the kingdom of God. Paul said...it is no longer I...and that means he is dead to any sense of improvement and fully "possessed" of God's Spirit so that it is God who is doing the living through him. And this is vastly different to a careful analysis and strategy of love on a man's part.

No, a surrender of ALL our faculties needs to take place...our love is exchanged for His love through us...and a humble regard for the words of God are necessary in a waiting on Him for His power that guides us in HIS ways.

So then there is what we do....but also what God is doing. A new-ager cares for what he is doing to improve his own way of loving...but this is still to be blind to what God is doing.

Such is the offense of the truth. Such is the offense of Christ.

 

[Pathfinder7]

14 The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation.
15 Shouts of joy and victory resound in the tents of the righteous: "The LORD's right hand has done mighty things!
16 The LORD's right hand is lifted high; the LORD's right hand has done mighty things!"
Psalm 118:14-16

7 The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped. My heart leaps for joy and I will give thanks to him in song.
8 The LORD is the strength of his people, a fortress of salvation for his anointed one.
Psalm 28:7-8

8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:8-9

26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 14:26

14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Cor 2:14

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8:9

Someone mentioned to me that I was too mystical. It made me think the opposite that some believe being born from God, knowing Jesus is the Messiah is not a mystical experience.
If we are born from an imperishable seed, then this must be something within the spiritual realm, something eternal, something we discover like a baby discovers life. Paul says this

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
2 Cor 5:17

Jesus says this of us

3 I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
John 3:3-6

Paul describes the effect of this change as going from

18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Rom 6:18

This is a profound change. It is also not a once off event, but rather a growth from a seed, something that starts small and comes to fill every aspect of ones life.

Thread title reminded me of.. 'A W Tozer.'
- Some people say, he was a 'Protestant Mystic.'
---
His books had impact.. during my spiritual journey.
- 'The Pursuit of God', etc..

Blessings,

 

[Josho]

Thread title reminded me of.. 'A W Tozer.'
- Some people say, he was a 'Protestant Mystic.'
---
His books had impact.. during my spiritual journey.
- 'The Pursuit of God', etc..

Blessings,

I haven't read any of his books, but do like his facebook page, there are some pretty good quotes on there.

 

[bbyrd009]

Building a bridge can be a tricky thing. A group of workers begins on the one side and another group on the other side of the river bank....hopefully to join up in the middle in a precise way.

Now the Christian walk is like that too except for the added difficulty of there being fog and mist of it being in another dimension... and this makes building there a lot harder. It's like working blind while listening to instructions. So there is a real challenge in getting things just right.

The same goes for building a road from one place to the other. In real life there have been huge discrepancies that have had to be made up for by adding in curves and deviations to make the roads meet up.

And that's when we can see things clearly.

So then a person can get a lot of ideas while reading the bible. An analytical person can realize that love is paramount...essential...and go about adding that in as the main building apparatus...well at least in theory. It's a lot easier to get a religious formula right than to actually love others.

But being careful and clever regarding the law of God can be a dangerous endeavour.

If the bible is presenting us with a game...then there will be good players. There will be good actors. In the time of Christ there were such good actors...the Pharisees. Jesus counseled people to do as they say (a good theoretical approach was noted)...but not as they do.

So all this to say...there is way that seems right...a way of love and that seems to be grounded in an understanding of God that makes sense to the individual...that puts the individual in control...since the game has been so figured out.

But God in truth is still left out. God is not part of the game. And an encounter with Jesus and truth messed up the religious notions of they who played the game well in His time. It revealed the lack of truth in they who were doing the building.

And likewise today....with the new age idea of love BEING God...and growth in that IDEA is the same as growth in Christ....can seem mystical. And doing this seems to at least obey the law to love others as ourselves. But is that really happening? Or is pride being fueled in the advancement of one's soul in "love"?

But the truth is according to power and a real connection to God in heaven. That is the other end of the road being built towards mankind. And one can discern where the other end of the road is going when faced with the holy God doing the building towards us.

The truth is according to an actual entrance into the Spirit. To walk as Jesus walked. To be dead to self...not possessing a heightened sense of the game. What is being built? If the structure seems solid that doesn't make the origins from heaven. Wood is solid...but it does burn. All materials that are not from heaven...and eternal (in more than theory) will burn up.

Now there is nothing wrong with loving others...or trying to love others. There is nothing wrong with trying to be pleasing to God.

It's the acting thing and the pride it fosters in a man that God hates. And it is revealed by how one reacts to the gospel that is according to power and presence.

So can we improve our fleshly conduct in the world. Of course....the new age movement is all about that...improving our humanity.

But improving our humanity and becoming more loving by the wrong power doesn't lead you to the kingdom of God.

No man can improve himself into the kingdom of God. Paul said...it is no longer I...and that means he is dead to any sense of improvement and fully "possessed" of God's Spirit so that it is God who is doing the living through him. And this is vastly different to a careful analysis and strategy of love on a man's part.

No, a surrender of ALL our faculties needs to take place...our love is exchanged for His love through us...and a humble regard for the words of God are necessary in a waiting on Him for His power that guides us in HIS ways.

So then there is what we do....but also what God is doing. A new-ager cares for what he is doing to improve his own way of loving...but this is still to be blind to what God is doing.

Such is the offense of the truth. Such is the offense of Christ.

your post reminds me that we are pretty much all Codependent in the West, which i guess most ppl dont even have a very good definition of...i know my family has it in spades. Id like to think i have escaped it, but i still easily slip back into codependence, under stress or whatever.

 

[bbyrd009]

i need help more than anyone i guess, but ppl do not like to be characterized as needing help, generally speaking. Imo find out what "Your love's like rhinestones, falling from the sky" means

 

[Windmillcharge]

Would help if you defined what you mean by mystic.
If you mean someone who seeks to know God then yes Christians are mystics.
If you mean someone who seeks union with the deity in a state of ecstasy then no.

A Christian is someone who has met with God/Jesus and has surrendered his life over to Jesus.
Who seeks to meet with Jesus 'spiritualy' through prayer, Bible study, worship and service.

The Christian live of service and worship is a strange mixture of the emotional and of the intellectual.
Those who say it is all in my 'feelings' are in as much error as those who say it is all in one's mind, thoughts and actions.

Just as we are not all emotions or all intellect but a confusing mixture so our Christian life, service and church services should mimic this mixture.

 

[FollowHim]

Would help if you defined what you mean by mystic.
If you mean someone who seeks to know God then yes Christians are mystics.
If you mean someone who seeks union with the deity in a state of ecstasy then no.

A Christian is someone who has met with God/Jesus and has surrendered his life over to Jesus.
Who seeks to meet with Jesus 'spiritualy' through prayer, Bible study, worship and service.

The Christian live of service and worship is a strange mixture of the emotional and of the intellectual.
Those who say it is all in my 'feelings' are in as much error as those who say it is all in one's mind, thoughts and actions.

Just as we are not all emotions or all intellect but a confusing mixture so our Christian life, service and church services should mimic this mixture.

I agree, we need to know the dividing line between what is not mystical and what is factual.
I think the general feel is people who follow a belief system of do's and don'ts, but have no emotional connection or claim them are spoken to directly by God are not mystical. Mystical experiences often involves convictions and inspiration to do things.

Someone suggested I was being mystical talking about how God allowed evil to arise, because of free will.
I then realised that the boundary of thought was I was adding to a surface understanding of revelation in scripture, as if this was beyond our grasp, and to go there was forbidden, or only mystics claimed to see. It then occurred to me the charismatic movement is mystical in this way, and being born again, and having Gods word specifically talk to our hearts is mystical. I then went a little further and realised the whole of scripture is mystical. Elijah spoke with God. God instructed him what to do and when. God comforted him by showing him the whisper in the midst of the storm.

We are called to "Be still and know that I am God"
That is a very emotional dwelling.

13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Rom 15:13

So I cannot find a place where God does not say He is willing to commune with us, in our hearts. Paul says we are temples of the Holy Spirit.
It is hard not therefore to say it is not a bed rock of who we are in Jesus, and He is will to show Himself to us.
God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Building a bridge can be a tricky thing. A group of workers begins on the one side and another group on the other side of the river bank....hopefully to join up in the middle in a precise way.

Now the Christian walk is like that too except for the added difficulty of there being fog and mist of it being in another dimension... and this makes building there a lot harder. It's like working blind while listening to instructions. So there is a real challenge in getting things just right.

The same goes for building a road from one place to the other. In real life there have been huge discrepancies that have had to be made up for by adding in curves and deviations to make the roads meet up.

And that's when we can see things clearly.

So then a person can get a lot of ideas while reading the bible. An analytical person can realize that love is paramount...essential...and go about adding that in as the main building apparatus...well at least in theory. It's a lot easier to get a religious formula right than to actually love others.

But being careful and clever regarding the law of God can be a dangerous endeavour.

If the bible is presenting us with a game...then there will be good players. There will be good actors. In the time of Christ there were such good actors...the Pharisees. Jesus counseled people to do as they say (a good theoretical approach was noted)...but not as they do.

So all this to say...there is way that seems right...a way of love and that seems to be grounded in an understanding of God that makes sense to the individual...that puts the individual in control...since the game has been so figured out.

But God in truth is still left out. God is not part of the game. And an encounter with Jesus and truth messed up the religious notions of they who played the game well in His time. It revealed the lack of truth in they who were doing the building.

And likewise today....with the new age idea of love BEING God...and growth in that IDEA is the same as growth in Christ....can seem mystical. And doing this seems to at least obey the law to love others as ourselves. But is that really happening? Or is pride being fueled in the advancement of one's soul in "love"?

But the truth is according to power and a real connection to God in heaven. That is the other end of the road being built towards mankind. And one can discern where the other end of the road is going when faced with the holy God doing the building towards us.

The truth is according to an actual entrance into the Spirit. To walk as Jesus walked. To be dead to self...not possessing a heightened sense of the game. What is being built? If the structure seems solid that doesn't make the origins from heaven. Wood is solid...but it does burn. All materials that are not from heaven...and eternal (in more than theory) will burn up.

Now there is nothing wrong with loving others...or trying to love others. There is nothing wrong with trying to be pleasing to God.

It's the acting thing and the pride it fosters in a man that God hates. And it is revealed by how one reacts to the gospel that is according to power and presence.

So can we improve our fleshly conduct in the world. Of course....the new age movement is all about that...improving our humanity.

But improving our humanity and becoming more loving by the wrong power doesn't lead you to the kingdom of God.

No man can improve himself into the kingdom of God. Paul said...it is no longer I...and that means he is dead to any sense of improvement and fully "possessed" of God's Spirit so that it is God who is doing the living through him. And this is vastly different to a careful analysis and strategy of love on a man's part.

No, a surrender of ALL our faculties needs to take place...our love is exchanged for His love through us...and a humble regard for the words of God are necessary in a waiting on Him for His power that guides us in HIS ways.

So then there is what we do....but also what God is doing. A new-ager cares for what he is doing to improve his own way of loving...but this is still to be blind to what God is doing.

Such is the offense of the truth. Such is the offense of Christ.

You seem to be suggesting there is a problem that is not solved in Christ.
From the time of Jesus till now the elect have been called and walk in His ways.
Once the seed is planted, it takes root and produces a good crop, it is like a plant, feed, water, sun light and it grows.

The problem is His people do not rest in Him enough and just walk as He leads. God always brings to completion His work in us.
Now if we think we can see and know all things, we say everyone is lost except this small group over there.

Elijah did this after the test on Mount Carmel. And God said, "I have 7 thousand"
We are servants who serve as we know and see fit. And in our walk, born of the Holy Spirit we find love, victory and fellowship.
That is the wonder of God in us, Praise the Lord, Amen.

 

[Windmillcharge]

I agree, we need to know the dividing line between what is not mystical and what is factual.
I think the general feel is people who follow a belief system of do's and don'ts, but have no emotional connection or claim them are spoken to directly by God are not mystical. Mystical experiences often involves convictions and inspiration to do things.

Someone suggested I was being mystical talking about how God allowed evil to arise, because of free will.
I then realised that the boundary of thought was I was adding to a surface understanding of revelation in scripture, as if this was beyond our grasp, and to go there was forbidden, or only mystics claimed to see. It then occurred to me the charismatic movement is mystical in this way, and being born again, and having Gods word specifically talk to our hearts is mystical. I then went a little further and realised the whole of scripture is mystical. Elijah spoke with God. God instructed him what to do and when. God comforted him by showing him the whisper in the midst of the storm.

We are called to "Be still and know that I am God"
That is a very emotional dwelling.

13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Rom 15:13

So I cannot find a place where God does not say He is willing to commune with us, in our hearts. Paul says we are temples of the Holy Spirit.
It is hard not therefore to say it is not a bed rock of who we are in Jesus, and He is will to show Himself to us.
God bless you

No it is not hard. Look at it as if you are a private in the army. Does the commander in chief come to wake you up, to give you instructions for the day?
No, he has issued standing orders, instructions that are in force untill cancelled and there are other officers and NCO's who will teach, apply those instructions to all army privates etc.

God has given us the Bible, his standing orders, we study it, listen to others talk about it and learn from them.
God doesn't need to tell us which socks to put on, should we go to church, resist temptation etc etc etc etc he has already told us in the Bible.
He only needs to come more directly to us for special situations.
Then we get advice for other Christians.

 

[FollowHim]

No it is not hard. Look at it as if you are a private in the army. Does the commander in chief come to wake you up, to give you instructions for the day?
No, he has issued standing orders, instructions that are in force untill cancelled and there are other officers and NCO's who will teach, apply those instructions to all army privates etc.

God has given us the Bible, his standing orders, we study it, listen to others talk about it and learn from them.
God doesn't need to tell us which socks to put on, should we go to church, resist temptation etc etc etc etc he has already told us in the Bible.
He only needs to come more directly to us for special situations.
Then we get advice for other Christians.

Interesting proposal. This is how God dealt with Israel and it failed. Israel did not listen, and carried on in sin as often as the opportunity arose.

19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.
20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
21 But as for those whose hearts are devoted to their vile images and detestable idols, I will bring down on their own heads what they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD
Ezek 11:19-21

This is also why christian asceticism fails, because it is about letting Jesus into our hearts, being very sensitive to what we are, and bringing this to the Lord continuously.

And the Lord is concerned at the smallest things in our lives, which is why He puts the Holy Spirit in our hearts to help us through, what we would call minor issues, but which found every action we do. Without the Holy Spirit we do not know God.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Interesting proposal. This is how God dealt with Israel and it failed. Israel did not listen, and carried on in sin as often as the opportunity arose.

19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.
20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
21 But as for those whose hearts are devoted to their vile images and detestable idols, I will bring down on their own heads what they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD
Ezek 11:19-21

This is also why christian asceticism fails, because it is about letting Jesus into our hearts, being very sensitive to what we are, and bringing this to the Lord continuously.

And the Lord is concerned at the smallest things in our lives, which is why He puts the Holy Spirit in our hearts to help us through, what we would call minor issues, but which found every action we do. Without the Holy Spirit we do not know God.

Thank you for reinforcing the importance of scripture.
As you say relying on mystical voices, fissions, words of knowledge etc leads only to error.

The Bible is the only trustworthy way of seeking to follow God.

 

[FollowHim]

Thank you for reinforcing the importance of scripture.
As you say relying on mystical voices, fissions, words of knowledge etc leads only to error.

The Bible is the only trustworthy way of seeking to follow God.

Scripture is Jesus, the word, made flesh. It is hard not to underestimate words. God created the universe through words

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Gen 1:3

This whole interaction on forums is through words, it is what we speak, how we think things through, it founds actions and organisations.
We often think descriptions are not that important, until it is the foundations of a building, which without the right foundations falls over.

A sentence can cause wars, lead to people being killed or save a life.
Within two word "I am", the very nature of God eternal existence, can be summarised.

What I have discovered is Gods words hold such complexity and relationship, when you explore it further, you find an infinite recurring set of themes. Jesus declared himself "The way, the truth and the life"

This is such a short sentence of 7 words, but again profound. At some points I have wondered on their exclusiveness, how could Jesus claim to be the authentic source of our way to eternity, yet stating what is does not limit the solution, but rather brings focus to its reality.

I have heard believers claims the way is not important, does not affect our destination or Gods heart towards us.
They turn the way into a belief without action, a defeat but a victory in adopting anothers victory. This is the power of these phrases to fit many interpretations, but also this strength, that the focus is Jesus is the foundation, so to Him and His words and following His way we find life.

And the way He lays out is the Fathers way, the way of love and service. What is not spoken about is the battle between emotional rights, and emotional giving up and bringing to Christ as a child in repentance, humbleness and a desire to walk the way of Jesus.

At this moment I am fighting anothers desire to cause pain, because they feel pain on imagined slights or problems. It is the emotional knowledge of the pain and anger this causes, to which you can apply love and concern, prayer and the Holy Spirit, that things can move forward. Jesus did this all the time, people desiring to trap Him, to find fault, to create a question He could not answer. I have had this on forums, and with a clear heart and head, one can speak Gods word clearly. What is difficult to take in, is it hurts, and this is our cross, and forgiveness and gentleness is our response. I was told that of course people cannot do this, not be that self aware, not that gracious. But that was Jesus, that is His way, that is His walk. And it takes time, it takes listening, it takes "Be still and know that I am God", ruling in ones heart.

So Gods word, applied to our hearts so it is Gods word springing anew each day to His glory, Amen.

 

[Episkopos]

Thank you for reinforcing the importance of scripture.
As you say relying on mystical voices, fissions, words of knowledge etc leads only to error.

The Bible is the only trustworthy way of seeking to follow God.

And yet...the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. So there is a paradox here. We can't trust voices and experiences...and yet the bible testifies to these voices (from God) and experiences and these become scripture.

So really this is about knowing His voice and discerning what is from Him.

Now it may seem that the bible is safe. But it just seems that way. It should be remembered that the letter kills.

So that brings us back to square one. Are all voices and experiences untrustworthy?

The same goes for cults. Christianity is a cult...a cult of personality....of Jesus. There are many other men who claim a following. But they have no life.

The difference is life.

So then whether we read the bible or/and experience His voice and visitation...it is about the life it brings. Who can discern the difference?

Jesus said...My sheep know My voice.

Of course there is a safe way of obedience through humility and fear of the Lord without claiming to be a disciple of Christ. And that is to DO as Jesus says to the best of our own ability...without claiming to be anything. So then we are saved in this way by not judging. The meek will inherit the earth.

But this way is very unpopular. Not so much humility these days.

 

[Windmillcharge]

And yet...the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. So there is a paradox here. We can't trust voices and experiences...and yet the bible testifies to these voices (from God) and experiences and these become scripture.

So really this is about knowing His voice and discerning what is from Him.

Now it may seem that the bible is safe. But it just seems that way. It should be remembered that the letter kills.

So that brings us back to square one. Are all voices and experiences untrustworthy?

The same goes for cults. Christianity is a cult...a cult of personality....of Jesus. There are many other men who claim a following. But they have no life.

The difference is life.

So then whether we read the bible or/and experience His voice and visitation...it is about the life it brings. Who can discern the difference?

Jesus said...My sheep know My voice.

Of course there is a safe way of obedience through humility and fear of the Lord without claiming to be a disciple of Christ. And that is to DO as Jesus says to the best of our own ability...without claiming to be anything. So then we are saved in this way by not judging. The meek will inherit the earth.

But this way is very unpopular. Not so much humility these days.

Yes reliance only on the Bible can lead to a literal legalism, just as reliance only on the spirit leads to error.
We have to read the Bible intelligently, humbly asking God to lead us in our studies and understanding.

God has blessed us with men who have walked closely with him and they have also written down what they have learnt.
We too can learn from them as we study the scripture prayerfully thinking about it and what others have also said.

There is a danger that we will try to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Davy]

14 The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation.
15 Shouts of joy and victory resound in the tents of the righteous: "The LORD's right hand has done mighty things!
16 The LORD's right hand is lifted high; the LORD's right hand has done mighty things!"
Psalm 118:14-16

7 The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped. My heart leaps for joy and I will give thanks to him in song.
8 The LORD is the strength of his people, a fortress of salvation for his anointed one.
Psalm 28:7-8

8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:8-9

26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 14:26

14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Cor 2:14

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8:9

Someone mentioned to me that I was too mystical. It made me think the opposite that some believe being born from God, knowing Jesus is the Messiah is not a mystical experience.
If we are born from an imperishable seed, then this must be something within the spiritual realm, something eternal, something we discover like a baby discovers life. Paul says this

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
2 Cor 5:17

Jesus says this of us

3 I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
John 3:3-6

Paul describes the effect of this change as going from

18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Rom 6:18

This is a profound change. It is also not a once off event, but rather a growth from a seed, something that starts small and comes to fill every aspect of ones life.

Not doubting what you posted, but that label of 'mystic' doesn't really apply to those in Christ Jesus. It mainly applies to the idea of an occultist or sorcerer.

The difference between us in Christ Jesus is that we inwardly are shown about God's coming Kingdom under His Son. The Holy Spirit shows us those things to come. And that not of ourselves, but simply because of having 'believed' in The Father through His Son Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection, and Promise of Salvation (all those things included in The Gospel).

What the 'mystic' seeks to do is different. The mystic seeks to have 'direct experience', absolute proofs, through their own practices. Much of what they practice to try to do that involves 'their own' working to penetrate God's Holy realm to have that direct experience. The occultists does it because they rebel against God and Satan leads them to do it against God's Will. Those in Christ, if we have an experience, it should be because God Himself does it through us according to His Purpose and Will, not of our own will or practice.

 

[FollowHim]

Not doubting what you posted, but that label of 'mystic' doesn't really apply to those in Christ Jesus. It mainly applies to the idea of an occultist or sorcerer.

The difference between us in Christ Jesus is that we inwardly are shown about God's coming Kingdom under His Son. The Holy Spirit shows us those things to come. And that not of ourselves, but simply because of having 'believed' in The Father through His Son Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection, and Promise of Salvation (all those things included in The Gospel).

What the 'mystic' seeks to do is different. The mystic seeks to have 'direct experience', absolute proofs, through their own practices. Much of what they practice to try to do that involves 'their own' working to penetrate God's Holy realm to have that direct experience. The occultists does it because they rebel against God and Satan leads them to do it against God's Will. Those in Christ, if we have an experience, it should be because God Himself does it through us according to His Purpose and Will, not of our own will or practice.

There are different uses of the word to mean different things. In traditional use of english as documented in dictionaries

mystic
noun
a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect.
"the poetry of the 16th-century Spanish mystic, St John of the Cross"

This is a western use of the term, relating to a branch of christian practice.

If Tozer is a protestant mystic, then it can be applied to believers. Unless you think Tozer was not a believer.
I know at some points in my life the idea of God speaking directly to me would make me very worried.

 

[bbyrd009]

Just as we are not all emotions or all intellect but a confusing mixture so our Christian life, service and church services should mimic this mixture.

hmm, you think? Imo we are "double-minded," and Let your women keep silence in the churches speaks to exactly that?
There are no male or female in the kingdom