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Christians are not under the New Covenant

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by keithr, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. Moriah's Song

    Moriah's Song Well-Known Member

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    However, a correct understanding of the distinction between faith “that” something is true and faith “in” something is that the required leap is not a jump in the dark, but rather a step into the light. The objective or “outward” evidences for God deliver the means needed to believe that God exists, which then leads to subjective or “inward” truths that one submits to in a trusting fashion. Both objective and subjective truths are biblical and spelled out in Hebrews: “And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is [faith “that”—objective] and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him [faith “in”—subjective]” (Hebrews 11:6).
     
  2. Moriah's Song

    Moriah's Song Well-Known Member

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    Not so! The "tree of [eternal] life" originated in the Garden of Eden and continued to grow with both Jews and Gentiles up until the cross [tree/wood] that Christ died on and then of which has continued to grow and will continue to grow as the "body of Christ" (his church) until Revelations....

    Rev 22:14...Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

    Rev 22:19...and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.​
     
  3. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    how?
    A there were no trees at the stable

    A Christmas tree is not a Christian thing, but of the world, even though it may represent the cross and the candles or lights represent the light of the world!
     
  4. Happy Trails

    Happy Trails Active Member

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    None of the things you are citing say what you claim.

    The location of that tree is the New Jerusalem. It descends from the heavens. Revelation 21.
    The Bible DOES NOT SAY that this same tree has been growing on the earth and that it IS the Body of Christ.
    You are fabricating all of that.

    It is imagination.

    It is "private interpretation."
     
  5. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    how do you possibly keep the sabbath with no temple, no ark, no priesthood, no sacrifice?????
     
  6. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hi Moriah,

    I think you missed my point. The Truth IS, and is not dependent on our understanding..

    The Truth does not change.. Thus what was True in 50 AD, 100 AD..500 AD.. Remains True regardless of our understanding..

    Christ is risen!
    Alleluia!
     
  7. Happy Trails

    Happy Trails Active Member

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    Show me in the Law where any of that is required.
     
  8. Happy Trails

    Happy Trails Active Member

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    Oh! It's "of the world," alright!

    It is from the pagan world.

    It is, by definition, service to another god.

    It is, by definition, adultery.

    You claim to be the Bride of the Messiah.

    But, you are whispering sweet nothing's in Tammuz's ear.

    The Bible has a name for that kind of woman.
     
  9. Moriah's Song

    Moriah's Song Well-Known Member

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    How are these verse that you completely ignored "private interpretation?"

    Did not Jesus die on the cross that was made out of a tree?
    Act 5:30..."The God of our fathers raised Jesus whom you killed by hanging him on a tree."

    Did not Jesus take the curse for us while he was hanging from the wooden cross made out of a "tree?"
    Gal 3:13...Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree"--
    Do you not believe that in dying and being resurrected we who believe in Christ our Savior, will be saved to everlasting life?
    1 Peter 2:24....He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.​
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
  10. Moriah's Song

    Moriah's Song Well-Known Member

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    I agree that TRUTH in God's Word is TRUTH as written.

    However, for example....
    • I believe that scriptural TRUTH does not permit the dispensational teaching that there will be...
      • a rapture of the church
      • a literal 1,000 year tribulation
      • a new temple in Jerusalem
      • the priesthood reinstated
      • sacrifices will be reinstated
      • that a glorified Christ that is presently sitting at the right hand of the Father will return to a sin cursed earth to sit on David's throne
      • that there are two groups of people; the Christian church and that the Jews have been put on hold until......??
      • that the "nation" of Israel will be saved without repentance.
    Yet, there are those who adamantly believe that TRUTH is in none of the above in scripture. Therefore, who who has the proper understand of TRUTH in scripture?
     
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  11. Happy Trails

    Happy Trails Active Member

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    I didn't ignore them. I addressed them head-on.

    NONE of those verses say "tree of life." That is all that needs to be said about them!

    "Any tree" is not "THAT tree."

    Your claim means the tree of life was cut down and turned into timber.

    Xulon means "wood." It doesn't even mean "tree." The KJV has you believing that it says "tree" when the word used by the writer doesn't mean "tree" at all.

    You have yet to explain how the Romans were given access to the ONE TREE that Adam, the created man, could NOT access any more. You might want to read that big section that comes before Matthew. THAT is what gives the guidelines for correct interpretation. Romans 15:4
     
  12. Cassandra

    Cassandra Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is our high Priest--we don't need the Ark either. The 2nd Temple didn't have the Ark. And our sacrifice was Jesus, who was sacrificed Once. That was enough.
     
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  13. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! And it is only through, with and in HIM, that our offering is made acceptable!

    Christ is risen!
    Alleluia!
     
  14. Moriah's Song

    Moriah's Song Well-Known Member

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    I'd say you are nitpicking in order to avoid the truth in these verses as well as the prior verses about the "tree of life"...

    Did not Jesus die on the cross that was made out of a tree?
    Act 5:30..."The God of our fathers raised Jesus whom you killed by hanging him on a tree."

    Did not Jesus take the curse for us while he was hanging from the wooden cross made out of a "tree?"
    Gal 3:13...Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree"--
    Do you not believe that in dying and being resurrected we who believe in Christ our Savior, will be saved to everlasting life?
    1 Peter 2:24....He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
     
  15. Happy Trails

    Happy Trails Active Member

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    No. I am allowing ONLY the text to introduce ideas, and then confirm them. You are wedging these verses into your narrative when nothing about them supports your idea. Again, 1500 years after the authors died, a bunch of guys translated a book with words that were not that accurate. You insist that it says "tree," and that HAS to mean "the tree of life," when it actually says "wood," and is truly more like "timber." There is no inference anywhere in Scripture that "the tree of life" is all the things you claim. The tree of life is well defined, and you're not even close.

    But, Christians do this a lot. Any good word can be exchanged with any other good word. Any bad word can be exchanged with any bad other word. The meanings of all those words can all be mutated to suit an agenda. You are proving 2 Peter 3:16 is true. "The unlearned twist Paul's words to their own destruction, just like they treat every other Scripture."
     
  16. Moriah's Song

    Moriah's Song Well-Known Member

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    Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)
    STRONGS G3586:
    ξύλον, ξύλου, τό (from ξύω to scrape, plane), from Homer down; the Sept. for עֵץ;
    1. wood: universally, 1 Corinthians 3:12; ξύλον θύϊνον, Revelation 18:12; that which is made of wood, as a beam from which anyone is suspended, a gibbet, a cross (A. V. tree, which see in B. D. American edition), Acts 5:30; Acts 10:39; Acts 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24 (עֵץ, Genesis 40:19; Deuteronomy 21:23; Joshua 10:26; Esther 5:14) — a use not found in the classics (cf. Liddell and Scott, under II. 4). A log or timber with holes in which the feet, bands, neck, of prisoners were inserted and fastened with thongs (Gr. καλόν, ξυλοπεδη, ποδοκάκη, ποδοστράβη, Latinnervus, by which the Latin renders the Hebrew סַד, a fetter, or shackle for the feet, Job (Job 13:27); Job 33:11; cf. Fischer, De vitiis lexamples N. T., p. 458ff; (B. D., under the word )): Acts 16:24 (Herodotus 6, 75; 9, 37; Aristophanes eq. 367, 394, 705); a cudgel, stick, staff: plural, Matthew 26:47, 55; Mark 14:43, 48; Luke 22:52 (Herodotus 2, 63; 4, 180; Demosthenes, p. 645, 15; Polybius 6, 37, 3; Josephus, b. j. 2, 9, 4; Herodian, 7, 7, 4).

    2. a tree: Luke 23:31 (Genesis 1:29; Genesis 2:9; Genesis 3:1; Isaiah 14:8, etc.); ξυλος τῆς ζωῆς, see ζωή, 2 b., p. 274{a}.
     
  17. Happy Trails

    Happy Trails Active Member

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    Really? Do you not see that this definition supports MY position, and NOT yours?

    Definition 1 "universally, that which is made of wood, as a beam from which anyone is suspended, a gibbet, a cross"

    NONE of the OT citations would be in Greek, so that is a moot point.

    ALL of the extra-Biblical citations are about sticks and clubs. They aren't even about trees!

    NOTHING in the definition suggests that ALL trees have a connection to the Tree of Life.

    You didn't even know there were "the feasts of YHVH." And now, you expect me to believe you are some kind of expert on the Tree of Life? PLEASE!

    This is exactly why Christianity is a dumpster fire of stupid slogans and insane claims. You took a definition that proves my point and think it's helping your cause. The plainly written descriptions of the Tree of Life in Bible completely contradict your story. I don't know who told you this. But, that person should not be believed about anything in the Bible. They have a vivid imagination. Unfortunately, they are probably a teacher somewhere.
     
  18. Moriah's Song

    Moriah's Song Well-Known Member

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    Please show me where I ever said that "ALL trees have a connection to the Tree of Life."
     
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  19. amigo de christo

    amigo de christo Well-Known Member

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    The title of this thread says that christains are not under the new covenant . LIE .
    ONLY CHRISTAINS , whether jew or gentile ARE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT . AINT NO NEW COVENANT
    OUTSIDE OF JESUS CHRIST . ONLY DEATH .
    Folks there is not TWO GOSPELS nor TWO PLANS of salvation . ONLY ONE . HIS NAME IS JESUS . AND IF A JEW
    or a gentile wants to be saved and be under the new covenant , MY ADVICE IS , BELEIVE IN CHRIST PEROID .
     
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  20. amigo de christo

    amigo de christo Well-Known Member

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    On the day of judgment all will be held accountable . MY ADVICE IS , RUN TO CHRIST .
     
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