Christians are recovering from the Matt. 28:19 Baptism formula; Gentile, save yourself.

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wordsponge

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Jan 8, 2014
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[SIZE=10pt]Evidence against the Traditional Wording of Matthew 28:19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Matt.28:19[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt][19] Go you (11 Apostles) therefore, and teach all nations,[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]baptizing them:[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]>> ‘in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost[/SIZE].’ << (This was changed.)​

[SIZE=medium]The Churches have been deceived for many generations[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=medium]and were deprived of Spiritual Gifts.[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=11pt]Correct baptism calling on Jesus,[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] from under the water,[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=11pt]still works for everyone who does it.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=11pt]Strait and narrow/ precise is the WAY that still works.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]The Original method that, the Jesus taught Apostles, followed:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]The process of Baptism is counsel from the Israelite God (Jesus >> GOD)[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]and must be done correctly and respectfully.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]Gentiles are coming to the Israelite God = Jesus.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]It is not complicated once it is known and understood.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]The Israelites are accustomed to baptizing, even to today.[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=10pt]Acts.22:16[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt][16] Why tarry?[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]Arise, and be baptized and wash away your sins,[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]calling on the name of the[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] LORD = (Jesus)[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=10pt]Pss.116[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt][12] What shall I render to the LORD (the Father) for all of his benefits toward me?
[13[/SIZE]] I will take the cup of salvation​
[SIZE=10pt]and call upon the name of the LORD [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] (Jesus, his beloved Son)[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=10pt]1 Cor.11[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt][2] Now I (Paul) praise (compliment) you, brethren,[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]that you remember me (Paul) in all things,[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]and you keep (obey) the (Christ given) ordinances (unchanged),[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]as I delivered them to you (includes baptism calling on Jesus from under the water[/SIZE].)​

[SIZE=10pt]2 Cor.13[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt][8] We (Christians) can do nothing against the TRUTH[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt] but for the TRUTH[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=10pt]Jas.3[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt][17] The wisdom that is from above is first:[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]pure[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]….[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]without partiality, (non biased)[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt]and without hypocrisy.[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=10pt]The following research is not compiled by me but represent the truth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]As to Matthew 28:19, it says: "It is the central piece of evidence for the traditional (Trinitarian) view. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]If it were undisputed, this would, of course, be decisive,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]but its trustworthiness is impugned on grounds of textual criticism, literary criticism and historical criticism."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The same Encyclopedia further states that:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The obvious explanation of the silence of the New Testament on the triune name,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and the use of another (JESUS NAME) formula in Acts and Paul, is that this other formula was the earlier,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and the triune formula is a later addition."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Edmund Schlink, The Doctrine of Baptism, page 28: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The baptismal command in its Matthew 28:19 form cannot be the historical origin of Christian baptism.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]At the very least, it must be assumed that the text has been transmitted in a[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]form expanded by the [Catholic] church."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, 275: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but...a later liturgical addition."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Wilhelm Bousset, Kyrios Christianity, page 295: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The testimony for the wide distribution of the simple baptismal formula [in the Name of Jesus][/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]own into the second century[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]is so overwhelming that even in Matthew 28:19, the Trinitarian formula was later inserted."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263[/SIZE]:
[SIZE=10pt]"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Hastings Dictionary of the Bible 1963, page 1015: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The Trinity.-...is not demonstrable by logic or by Scriptural proofs,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The term Trias was first used by Theophilus of Antioch (c AD 180),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt](The term Trinity) not found in Scripture...”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The chief Trinitarian text in the NT is the baptismal formula in Mt 28:19.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]This late post-resurrection saying, not found in any other Gospel or anywhere else in the NT,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]has been viewed by some scholars as an interpolation into Matthew……”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"Jesus, however, cannot have given His disciples this Trinitarian order of baptism after His resurrection;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]for the New Testament knows only one baptism[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:43; 19:5; Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13-15),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]which still occurs even in the second and third centuries,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]while the Trinitarian formula occurs only in Matt. 28:19,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and then only again (in the) Didache 7:1 and Justin, Apol. 1:61.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Finally, the distinctly liturgical character of the formula...is strange;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]it was not the way of Jesus to make such formulas... the formal authenticity of Matt. 28:19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]must be disputed[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]..."page 435.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The Jerusalem Bible, a scholarly Catholic work, states: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"It may be that this formula, (Triune Matthew 28:19) so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]is a reflection of the (Man-made) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing "in the name of Jesus,"..."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637, Under "Baptism," says:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and its Trinitarian formula (is) foreign to the mouth of Jesus."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]New Revised Standard Version says this about Matthew 28:19: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"Modern critics claim this formula is falsely ascribed to Jesus[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and that it represents later (Catholic) church tradition,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]for nowhere in the book of Acts (or any other book of the Bible) is baptism performed with the name of the Trinity..." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]James Moffett's New Testament Translation: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]In a footnote on page 64 about Matthew 28:19 he makes this statement:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"It may be that this (Trinitarian) formula, so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]is a reflection of the (Catholic) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing "in the name of Jesus[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt], cf. Acts 1:5 +."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The Bible Commentary 1919 page 723:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Dr. Peake makes it clear that:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The command to baptize into the threefold name is a late doctrinal expansion.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Instead of the words baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]we should probably read simply-"into My Name."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Theology of the New Testament:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]By R. Bultmann, 1951, page 133 under Kerygma of the Hellenistic Church and the Sacraments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The historical fact that the verse Matthew 28:19 was altered is openly confessed to very plainly. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]As to the rite of baptism, it was normally consummated as a bath[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]in which the one receiving baptism completely submerged,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and if possible in flowing water as the allusions of Acts 8:36, Heb. 10:22, Barn. 11:11 permit us to gather,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and as Did. 7:1-3 specifically says.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]According to the last passage, [the apocryphal Catholic Didache] suffices in case of the need[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]if water is three times poured [false Catholic sprinkling doctrine] on the head.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The one baptizing names over the one being baptized the name of the Lord Jesus Christ[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt],"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]later expanded [changed] to the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Doctrine and Practice in the Early Church:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]By Dr. Stuart G. Hall 1992, pages 20 and 21.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Professor Stuart G. Hall was the former Chair of Ecclesiastical History at King's College, London England.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Dr. Hall makes the factual statement that Catholic Trinitarian Baptism[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]was not the original form of Christian Baptism,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]rather the original was Jesus name baptism.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]although those words were not used, as they later are, as a formula[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Not all baptisms fitted this rule." Dr Hall further, states:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"More common and perhaps more ancient was the simple, "In the name of the Lord Jesus or, Jesus Christ."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The Catholic University of America in Washington, D. C. 1923,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]New Testament Studies Number 5: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The Lord's Command To Baptize An Historical Critical Investigation. By Bernard Henry Cuneo page 27.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The passages in Acts and the Letters of St. Paul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]These passages seem to point to the earliest form as baptism in the name of the Lord."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Also we find. "Is it possible to reconcile these facts with the belief[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]that Christ commanded his disciples to baptize in the trine form?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Had Christ given such a command, it is urged, the Apostolic Church would have followed him,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and we should have some trace of this obedience in the New Testament.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]No such trace can be found.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The only explanation of this silence, according to the anti-traditional view,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]is this the short Christological (Jesus Name) formula was (the) original,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and the longer trine formula was a later development."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]A History of The Christian Church:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]1953 by Williston Walker former Professor of Ecclesiastical History at Yale University.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]On page 95 we see the historical facts again declared.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"With the early disciples generally baptism was "in the name of Jesus Christ."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]“The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew 28:19 therefore did not originate from the original Church[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]that started in Jerusalem around AD 33.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]It was rather as the evidence proves a later invention of Roman Catholicism completely fabricated.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Very few know about these historical facts. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]or the first copy of the original of Matthew.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Eusebius informs us of Jesus' actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"With one word and voice He said to His disciples:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you. That "Name" is Jesus.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Time Magazine, Dec. 5, 1955: Record of a True Baptism in Rome 100 A.D. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] "The deacon raised his hand, and Publius Decius stepped through the baptistery door.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Standing waist-deep in the pool was Marcus Vasca the wood seller.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]He was smiling as Publius waded into the pool beside him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]'Credis?' he asked. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Credo' responded Publius.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]'I believe that my salvation comes from Jesus the Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]With Him I died that with Him I may have Eternal Life.'[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Then he felt strong arms supporting him as he let himself fall backward into the pool,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]and heard Marcus' voice in his ear,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]'I baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus'[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]as the cold water closed over (buried) him."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]***[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The above Baptism conforms to the Doctrine of the Christ taught Apostles. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The baptizer called upon/ over the candidate the 'name of the LORD Jesus, our Savior.'[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The child of the Father, who is coming to the LORD Jesus, (the Arm of GOD)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]must >> also call on the LORD Jesus, from under the water, [/SIZE]or the only result is that you get wet.
[SIZE=10pt]Calling God (Jesus, the God of Israel) by his name, to get his attention and his response,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]was always the beneficial Israelite custom.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Gentiles must become aware of this fact and action it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Happiness and many blessings follow.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Grace to all.[/SIZE]
 

KingJ

New Member
Mar 18, 2011
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wordsponge said:
[SIZE=medium]The Churches have been deceived for many generations[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]and were deprived of Spiritual Gifts.[/SIZE]
Have you got proof of this? Bear in mind that what you are saying in layman's terms is that God the Holy Spirit has NOT been doing His job properly.
 

Madad21

Boast in Christ
Dec 28, 2013
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I was Baptized even when I was being told I didnt have to be.
Im glad I did it means a huge deal to me, I truly wanted baptism after asking Christ in to my life it felt like the right thing to do it was put on my heart to have it done.
 

wordsponge

New Member
Jan 8, 2014
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Canada
Angelina said:
So you believe in the oneness doctrine??? :huh: Welcome to CyB btw :)

Bless ya!
Hello,

I hate to disappoint you and I hope that you will forgive me.

I believe in the exaltation of the Son.

The ONENESS make Jesus look like a liar who prays to himself, sits on his own right hand.
has no Father and sent himself.

Christians are the people of greater light who know about the existence of three
and should not make ONE out of them...

Israel is of lower light and was told about ONE who was Jesus.

Deut.6
[4] Hear, O (nation of) Israel (NOT Gentiiles nor the Church):
The LORD our (Israelite) God (Jesus) is one LORD:


The Highest made his Son God of Israel...

Baptism calling on Jesus from under the water, for forgiveness, gets an immediate response.

Then following the Apostles teachings gets the rest...

Grace is great.

Pray to both separately.

BOTH bless you too..
Keep well, :)
KingJ said:
Have you got proof of this? Bear in mind that what you are saying in layman's terms is that God the Holy Spirit has NOT been doing His job properly.
Hello,
You will not believe the dedication and years of life that went into seeking Jesus.
You can start in the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles and observe baptisnm only
and think like a Spiritual Israelite...

We have been TRICKED...

Good luck to you.
Madad21 said:
I was Baptized even when I was being told I didnt have to be.
Im glad I did it means a huge deal to me, I truly wanted baptism after asking Christ in to my life it felt like the right thing to do it was put on my heart to have it done.
Great...
Be sure that you call Jesus from under the water.
He responds with great JOY in you, immediately.
Follow the Apostles teachings.
Do not by=undle the THREE into ONE.
We are the people of the GREATER light...

Acknowledge BOTH and pray to BOTH...

GRACE to you :)