Christ's Coming to Gather His Church is AFTER the Tribulation

[Davy]

Lord Jesus Himself said it, in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

And did you know brethren the Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the event of Jesus' future coming and gathering of His faithful Church?

Those who are preaching a pre-trib rapture, or a mid-trib rapture, are simply NOT following what Jesus Himself said in His Word. I can't put it any more honestly than that.

I find that many brethren who wrongly believe on a pre-trib or mid-trib rapture theory don't actually understand even the 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter where Apostle Paul spoke of how Christ comes to gather His saints.

When Lord Jesus returns in the future, after the tribulation, He brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes, according to Apostle Paul. Those are the resurrected saints that had already died in Christ.

Then those of His faithful Church still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and those resurrected saints.

Apostle Paul didn't cover where Jesus with His Church is going at that event, but the Zechariah 14 Chapter does, and it is to Jerusalem on earth, Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. I recognize this problem with those same brethren on the pre-trib and mid-trib ideas from men, they don't really know about that Zechariah 14 event either, but instead are wrongly taught that Jesus and His saints go back into Heaven, which is not written.

 

[Truth7t7]

Apostle Paul didn't cover where Jesus with His Church is going at that event, but the Zechariah 14 Chapter does, and it is to Jerusalem on earth, Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. I recognize this problem with those same brethren on the pre-trib and mid-trib ideas from men, they don't really know about that Zechariah 14 event either, but instead are wrongly taught that Jesus and His saints go back into Heaven, which is not written.

Zechariah 14 Isn't On This Earth As You Claim, It's The Eternal Kingdom In The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, a new creation

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Davy]

Zechariah 14 Isn't On This Earth As You Claim, It's The Eternal Kingdom In The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, a new creation

Not true.

The Zechariah 14 Scripture IS UPON THIS EARTH, otherwise those events of the Mount of Olives being split in two when Christ's feet touch down upon it wouldn't even be mentioned there!

Brethren:
The false doctrine Truth7t7 is pointing to in his post is called Amillenialism. They believe on the day of Christ's future return that we immediately go into the new heavens and a new earth timing, because they totally scrap the "thousand years" events written in Revelation 20 about Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect over the wicked for that period, which also is PRIOR to God's Great White Throne Judgment. They also wrongly believe God's GWT Judgment also happens immediately on the day of Christ's future return.

Here is a major problem for the Amillennialist...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

That is Jesus speaking to His elect of the Church of Philadelphia. He tells them He will make those false Jews (Christ's main enemies) to come and worship Him at the feet of His elect.

When has that ever... happened in this present world? It hasn't. That event is still future to us, and will ONLY happen when Jesus returns in our near future. That also means then, the 'wicked' will still... be with us in that future time, and NOT destroyed in the "lake of fire" yet! Otherwise, how are they going to bow in that future time after Christ has returned?

So really, it doesn't take much common sense with staying in God's Word as written to figure out that the doctrine of Amillennialism is a doctrine from men, and not from God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lord Jesus Himself said it, in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

And did you know brethren the Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the event of Jesus' future coming and gathering of His faithful Church?

Those who are preaching a pre-trib rapture, or a mid-trib rapture, are simply NOT following what Jesus Himself said in His Word. I can't put it any more honestly than that.

I find that many brethren who wrongly believe on a pre-trib or mid-trib rapture theory don't actually understand even the 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter where Apostle Paul spoke of how Christ comes to gather His saints.

When Lord Jesus returns in the future, after the tribulation, He brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes, according to Apostle Paul. Those are the resurrected saints that had already died in Christ.

Then those of His faithful Church still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and those resurrected saints.

Apostle Paul didn't cover where Jesus with His Church is going at that event, but the Zechariah 14 Chapter does, and it is to Jerusalem on earth, Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. I recognize this problem with those same brethren on the pre-trib and mid-trib ideas from men, they don't really know about that Zechariah 14 event either, but instead are wrongly taught that Jesus and His saints go back into Heaven, which is not written.

I agree with your main point here which is that Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 are the same event as 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. Both speak of His one future coming and both speak of His own being gathered. I mean, if those aren't the same event then how can we ever determine that any two passages are speaking of the same event?

I'm not going to bother arguing with you about Zechariah 14 here, though. I think that's completely besides the point that is being made here, which is that the rapture is post-trib rather than pre-trib or mid-trib.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Davy,

Jesus never revealed His purposes for the Body of Christ when He was on earth. Thus Matt.24 concerns the future of Israel and the nations.

 

[farouk]

Hi Davy,

Jesus never revealed His purposes for the Body of Christ when He was on earth. Thus Matt.24 concerns the future of Israel and the nations.

@Marilyn C Interestingly, Luke 21 (similarly to Matthew 21) and part of Luke 22 seem to be about Israel, whereas in the middle of Luke 22 during the institution of the Lord's Supper, what pertained to the passover (Israel in the background) transitions into what pertains to the church.

 

[The Light]

Lord Jesus Himself said it, in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

And did you know brethren the Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the event of Jesus' future coming and gathering of His faithful Church? I find that many brethren who wrongly believe on a pre-trib or mid-trib rapture theory don't actually understand even the 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter where Apostle Paul spoke of how Christ comes to gather His saints.

Matthew 24:31 is not 1 Thessalonians 4. In 1 Thes 4 the Lord Himself comes for the Church. In Matt 24:31 He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Completely different events.

Those who are preaching a pre-trib rapture, or a mid-trib rapture, are simply NOT following what Jesus Himself said in His Word. I can't put it any more honestly than that.

To put it nicely, you have no idea what you are talking about. You confuse the Lord Himself coming and the Lord sending His angels. Two completely different events. When the Lord Himself comes for His Church, it will be at the Trump of God or voice of God. When the Lord sends His angels for the gathering from heaven and earth, it will be at the Last Trump. Two completely separate events, and clearly written that way for anyone paying the slightest bit of attention.

When Lord Jesus returns in the future, after the tribulation, He brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes, according to Apostle Paul. Those are the resurrected saints that had already died in Christ.

Then those of His faithful Church still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and those resurrected saints.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. The tribulation is OVER at the 6th SEAL.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Apostle Paul didn't cover where Jesus with His Church is going at that event, but the Zechariah 14 Chapter does, and it is to Jerusalem on earth, Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. I recognize this problem with those same brethren on the pre-trib and mid-trib ideas from men, they don't really know about that Zechariah 14 event either, but instead are wrongly taught that Jesus and His saints go back into Heaven, which is not written.

Here is the great multitude in heaven, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION, and BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD. Again, you lack understanding.

Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

[Enoch111]

Lord Jesus Himself said it, in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

Those are NOT references to the Rapture of the Church. Rather they are references to the believing Jewish remnant (called "the elect") gathered AFTER the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[Davy]

Matthew 24:31 is not 1 Thessalonians 4.

It mostly certain is what Apostle Paul was teaching in 1 Thessalonians 4. It shows that Paul got that teaching directly from Jesus Christ... and this is SO EASY!


Matt 24:31
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

"from one end of heaven to the other" = 1 Thessalonians 4:14

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

"from the uttermost part of the earth" = 1 Thessalonians 4:17

SO EASY!

 

[Davy]

Those are NOT references to the Rapture of the Church. Rather they are references to the believing Jewish remnant (called "the elect") gathered AFTER the Second Coming of Christ.

Well, yes those Matthew 24 and Mark 13 Scriptures ARE where Apostle Paul was teaching 1 Thessalonians 4 from, as I showed in my post #9.

 

[PinSeeker]

Lord Jesus Himself said it, in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

And did you know brethren the Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the event of Jesus' future coming and gathering of His faithful Church?

Those who are preaching a pre-trib rapture, or a mid-trib rapture, are simply NOT following what Jesus Himself said in His Word. I can't put it any more honestly than that.

I find that many brethren who wrongly believe on a pre-trib or mid-trib rapture theory don't actually understand even the 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter where Apostle Paul spoke of how Christ comes to gather His saints.

When Lord Jesus returns in the future, after the tribulation, He brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes, according to Apostle Paul. Those are the resurrected saints that had already died in Christ.

Then those of His faithful Church still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and those resurrected saints.

Apostle Paul didn't cover where Jesus with His Church is going at that event, but the Zechariah 14 Chapter does, and it is to Jerusalem on earth, Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. I recognize this problem with those same brethren on the pre-trib and mid-trib ideas from men, they don't really know about that Zechariah 14 event either, but instead are wrongly taught that Jesus and His saints go back into Heaven, which is not written.

You know, Davy, I'm not sure where you would put yourself in the whole millennial debate. Some things are clear, like that you are opposed to pre-millennialism and pre-tribulational dispensationalism. If that is the case, then I'm right with you. Secondly, you mention in a negative light "mid-trib" ideas, and by that I think you mean the idea that we are presently in the midst of the millennium of Revelation 20, and so are voicing your (clearer in other post of yours) opposition to amillennialism (also nunc-millennialism). It seems quite obvious that you are not a Preterist. So that would seem to leave you in the post-millennialist "camp," by process of elimination. Is that where you would put yourself? Because I have to say, when you say, here in this post...

"When Lord Jesus returns in the future, after the tribulation, He brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes, according to Apostle Paul. Those are the resurrected saints that had already died in Christ. Then those of His faithful Church still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and those resurrected saints."​

That sounds very, very a/nunc-millennialistic. I am in that camp, and would say exactly the same thing. But yet... you rail against that view over and over, which is puzzling. It seems that maybe the disagreement between you and I ~ if there is any ~ is in that little appositive phrase "after the tribulation," and more specifically when, in your understanding, the tribulation happens. Perhaps you might define that a bit further.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Davy]

You know, Davy, I'm not sure where you would put yourself in the whole millennial debate. Some things are clear, like that you are opposed to pre-millennialism and pre-tribulational dispensationalism. If that is the case, then I'm right with you. Secondly, you mention in a negative light "mid-trib" ideas, and by that I think you mean the idea that we are presently in the midst of the millennium of Revelation 20, and so are voicing your (clearer in other post of yours) opposition to amillennialism (also nunc-millennialism). It seems quite obvious that you are not a Preterist. So that would seem to leave you in the post-millennialist "camp," by process of elimination. Is that where you would put yourself? Because I have to say, when you say, here in this post...

"When Lord Jesus returns in the future, after the tribulation, He brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes, according to Apostle Paul. Those are the resurrected saints that had already died in Christ. Then those of His faithful Church still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and those resurrected saints."​

That sounds very, very a/nunc-millennialistic. I am in that camp, and would say exactly the same thing. But yet... you rail against that view over and over, which is puzzling. It seems that maybe the disagreement between you and I ~ if there is any ~ is in that little appositive phrase "after the tribulation," and more specifically when, in your understanding, the tribulation happens. Perhaps you might define that a bit further.

Grace and peace to you.

JUST MORE HOT AIR in the above brethren in Christ. God's Word as written full strength never has been popular with those who prefer to follow the leaven doctrines of men.

 

[Davy]

Just a NOTE brethren in Christ...

The reason why those on the false Pre-trib Rapture theory do not LIKE that revealing of those Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses linked with Apostle Paul's 1 Thessalonians 4 gathering of the Church is this...

The false Pre-trib Rapture theory teaches that Jesus comes to rapture His Church PRIOR to the time of "great tribulation". So that theory also teaches... that only the Jews are 'left-behind' so to speak, with many of them becoming their idea of tribulation saints. SO... they teach Christ's Olivet discourse, (yeah, those Matthew 24 and Mark 13 chapters), ARE FOR THE JEWS, and not Christ's Church.

Why... would they teach that LIE?

It's simple; it is because of how Jesus revealed in His Olivet discourse that His coming to gather His Church is AFTER THAT TRIBULATION. They don't want to hear that Truth, so they try and push Christ's Mount of Olives discourse upon the Jews, that way they can keep their false pre-trib rapture theory, they think.

Now those Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses of just 'where' those saints are gathered FROM, is indeed... linked to the SAME events Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of Christ's Church. That presents a problem for those on a false pre-trib rapture theory, so they are going to fight against that Scripture proof.

 

[The Light]

It mostly certain is what Apostle Paul was teaching in 1 Thessalonians 4. It shows that Paul got that teaching directly from Jesus Christ... and this is SO EASY!

Matt 24:31
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

"from one end of heaven to the other" = 1 Thessalonians 4:14

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

"from the uttermost part of the earth" = 1 Thessalonians 4:17

SO EASY!

I don't see any angels being sent in 1 Thes 4. I see the Lord Himself coming at the trump of God or voice of God. You are looking at the wrong harvest. You should be looking for angels being sent at the last trump.

If you want to see the angels being sent for the gathering just prior to the wrath of God, you might look here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

I know that the chance of you understanding this is slim and none....but I digress. The gathering from heaven and earth that occurs in Matthew 24 is the dead in Christ and the Church which are in heaven, gathered from heaven where they will be during the 70th week of Daniel, which is the tribulation period. Those gathered from the earth will be the dead that are killed during the tribulation period, mostly of the twelve tribes across the earth, and those of the seed of the woman (12 tribes) that remain alive when the days are cut short, so that there would be flesh alive to receive salvation by that rapture harvest. This is the fall fruit harvest.

If you are looking for the dead in Christ rising you might look to the barley harvest which occurs at Passover. If you are looking for those that are alive in the Church when the Lord himself comes you should probably be looking to the wheat harvest which occurs Pentecost, Feast of Weeks.

Back to the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, that happens at the 6th seal. Need I post the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars again.

Long story short, you are confusing the Lord Himself coming for the dead in Christ and those alive in the Church, with the fig trees second harvest that occurs after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That is when the regrafting of Israel is complete.

 

[PinSeeker]

PinSeeker: You know, Davy, I'm not sure where you would put yourself in the whole millennial debate. Some things are clear, like that you are opposed to pre-millennialism and pre-tribulational dispensationalism. If that is the case, then I'm right with you. Secondly, you mention in a negative light "mid-trib" ideas, and by that I think you mean the idea that we are presently in the midst of the millennium of Revelation 20, and so are voicing your (clearer in other post of yours) opposition to amillennialism (also nunc-millennialism). It seems quite obvious that you are not a Preterist. So that would seem to leave you in the post-millennialist "camp," by process of elimination. Is that where you would put yourself? Because I have to say, when you say, here in this post...

"When Lord Jesus returns in the future, after the tribulation, He brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes, according to Apostle Paul. Those are the resurrected saints that had already died in Christ. Then those of His faithful Church still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and those resurrected saints."

That sounds very, very a/nunc-millennialistic. I am in that camp, and would say exactly the same thing. But yet... you rail against that view over and over, which is puzzling. It seems that maybe the disagreement between you and I ~ if there is any ~ is in that little appositive phrase "after the tribulation," and more specifically when, in your understanding, the tribulation happens. Perhaps you might define that a bit further.​

JUST MORE HOT AIR in the above brethren in Christ. God's Word as written full strength never has been popular with those who prefer to follow the leaven doctrines of men.

LOL! Just what do you think, Davy, is "hot air" in what I posted? Because what I did in that post was agree with you. And then ask you to define something a little further, but still. Yes, I quoted you, and then, as an advocate of the nunc-millennial view, agreed with you, because what you said is very much along those lines, even while you rail against it. Again, that's astounding. If you're calling it "hot air," then you're saying you yourself are full of it.

Seems like you would be amenable to discussing it calmly, but maybe that's just not your thing...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[The Light]

Just a NOTE brethren in Christ...

The reason why those on the false Pre-trib Rapture theory do not LIKE that revealing of those Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses linked with Apostle Paul's 1 Thessalonians 4 gathering of the Church is this...

The false Pre-trib Rapture theory teaches that Jesus comes to rapture His Church PRIOR to the time of "great tribulation". So that theory also teaches... that only the Jews are 'left-behind' so to speak, with many of them becoming their idea of tribulation saints. SO... they teach Christ's Olivet discourse, (yeah, those Matthew 24 and Mark 13 chapters), ARE FOR THE JEWS, and not Christ's Church.

Why... would they teach that LIE?

It's simple; it is because of how Jesus revealed in His Olivet discourse that His coming to gather His Church is AFTER THAT TRIBULATION.

LOL. The blindness runs deep in one. Matthew 24:31 has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Biblical Pre-Tribulation, pre 70th week rapture, pre opening of the 7 seals rapture of the Church. Yes, there is a rapture, the gathering from heaven and earth, that takes place with the coming of Jesus in Matt 24, it occurs at the 6th seal, BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD. And we can certainly prove that without question, well, if you could see and hear we could prove that.

It is the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured from the earth, immediately after the tribulation and just prior to the wrath of God. After the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, which is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus at the end of Rev 14, just prior to the wrath of God...............Who gets raptured?????????

Here is people being cast into the wrath of God after the coming of Jesus in Rev 14.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The evil ones got cast into the wrath of God. Who got raptured from the earth?????
Rev 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

The ones that got raptured were singing the song of Moses, THEY ARE OF THE 12 TRIBES. You know, the people that you think you replaced? Do you know the song of Moses?

There are two raptures. One before the tribulation, which is before the 70th week of Daniel, which is before the seals are opened. And one before the wrath of God. The Church is raptured before the tribulation and the seed of the woman is raptured before the wrath of God as they are singing the song of Moses. I know this is so far over your head, I don't even think a blind squirrel will find this acorn.

They don't want to hear that Truth, so they try and push Christ's Mount of Olives discourse upon the Jews, that way they can keep their false pre-trib rapture theory, they think.

You are not too good at posting the truth as you don't understand the truth. It is however pleasing to know that there are people that actually understand that the discourse is for the Jews. They will understand that He is coming for them before the wrath of God.

Now those Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses of just 'where' those saints are gathered FROM, is indeed... linked to the SAME events Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of Christ's Church. That presents a problem for those on a false pre-trib rapture theory, so they are going to fight against that Scripture proof.

I have got to admit, that I'm amazed. What you think is scriptural proof, is actually proving you wrong, and you are unable to see it. How can I possibly think that you will be able to see that those that are singing the song of Moses are those that are raptured at Jesus coming in Matthew 24?
How can you make the blind see?

 

[PinSeeker]

It is the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured from the earth, immediately after the tribulation and just prior to the wrath of God. After the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, which is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus at the end of Rev 14...

Agreed... at least to an extent. I'm not sure what you think of the nature of these things ~ this "rapture from the earth," the "tribulation," and such, like how when each starts, the length of duration of each, and such. And hey, I don't know whether you will agree with this or not, but yeah, the coming of Jesus is a one-time event (which I think you agree with), but Revelation 14 is not the only place in Revelation where it is found/seen...

It does strike me as a bit funny that you and Davy are sort of "at each other's throats" ~ so opposed to each other ~ and still I seem to be agreeing with you both, at least to a certain extent.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Marilyn C]

@Marilyn C Interestingly, Luke 21 (similarly to Matthew 21) and part of Luke 22 seem to be about Israel, whereas in the middle of Luke 22 during the institution of the Lord's Supper, what pertained to the passover (Israel in the background) transitions into what pertains to the church.

Hi farouk,

The Passover Supper was a Feast ordained by God for Israel to observe. We know the fulfillment is the Lord`s death. Notice Matt. 22: 30 where the Lord tells the 12 disciples their future - `sitting on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.` Still all to do with Israel.

We, the Body of Christ remember the Lord`s death and resurrection and how we are `one loaf,` `one Body` in Him. And Paul received from the Lord that when we `eat and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord`s death till He comes.` (1 Cor. 11: 24 - 26)

There is a difference there I believe, although we see a similarity. As you said `a transition.`

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL! Just what do you think, Davy, is "hot air" in what I posted? Because what I did in that post was agree with you. And then ask you to define something a little further, but still. Yes, I quoted you, and then, as an advocate of the nunc-millennial view, agreed with you, because what you said is very much along those lines, even while you rail against it. Again, that's astounding. If you're calling it "hot air," then you're saying you yourself are full of it.

Seems like you would be amenable to discussing it calmly, but maybe that's just not your thing...

Grace and peace to you.

Davy only believes Davyism. He does not agree with any one. He normally takes a stand against every single poster.

 

[Davy]

I don't see any angels being sent in 1 Thes 4. I see the Lord Himself coming at the trump of God or voice of God. You are looking at the wrong harvest. You should be looking for angels being sent at the last trump.

Obviously, all you 'want' to see is men's false doctrine of a Pre-trib Rapture. Apostle Paul called those like yourself spiritually 'drunken in the night', comparing a drunkard on strong drink with deception, except the strong drink he pointed to is deception about the "times and the seasons" he was pointing to, which was the same teaching Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. Thus there's more than one place that Apostle Paul pointed directly to Christ's Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse, proving that Christ's Olivet discourse is definitely for His Church!

1 Thess 5:6-7
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
KJV