Collider: Black Holes/WorldEnd

[Christina]

Many stories are around the news/Web of this Collider causing a Black Hole on earth when its turned on this week perhaps even today.........................................The safety of the LHCThe Large Hadron Collider (LHC) can achieve an energy that no other particle accelerators have reached before, but Nature routinely produces higher energies in cosmic-ray collisions. Concerns about the safety of whatever may be created in such high-energy particle collisions have been addressed for many years. In the light of new experimental data and theoretical understanding, the LHC Safety Assessment Group (LSAG) has updated a review of the analysis made in 2003 by the LHC Safety Study Group, a group of independent scientists.LSAG reaffirms and extends the conclusions of the 2003 report that LHC collisions present no danger and that there are no reasons for concern. Whatever the LHC will do, Nature has already done many times over during the lifetime of the Earth and other astronomical bodies. The LSAG report has been reviewed and endorsed by CERN’s Scientific Policy Committee, a group of external scientists that advises CERN’s governing body, its Council.The following summarizes the main arguments given in the LSAG report. Anyone interested in more details is encouraged to consult it directly, and the technical scientific papers to which it refers.Cosmic raysThe LHC, like other particle accelerators, recreates the natural phenomena of cosmic rays under controlled laboratory conditions, enabling them to be studied in more detail. Cosmic rays are particles produced in outer space, some of which are accelerated to energies far exceeding those of the LHC. The energy and the rate at which they reach the Earth’s atmosphere have been measured in experiments for some 70 years. Over the past billions of years, Nature has already generated on Earth as many collisions as about a million LHC experiments – and the planet still exists. Astronomers observe an enormous number of larger astronomical bodies throughout the Universe, all of which are also struck by cosmic rays. The Universe as a whole conducts more than 10 million million LHC-like experiments per second. The possibility of any dangerous consequences contradicts what astronomers see - stars and galaxies still exist. Microscopic black holesNature forms black holes when certain stars, much larger than our Sun, collapse on themselves at the end of their lives. They concentrate a very large amount of matter in a very small space. Speculations about microscopic black holes at the LHC refer to particles produced in the collisions of pairs of protons, each of which has an energy comparable to that of a mosquito in flight. Astronomical black holes are much heavier than anything that could be produced at the LHC.According to the well-established properties of gravity, described by Einstein’s relativity, it is impossible for microscopic black holes to be produced at the LHC. There are, however, some speculative theories that predict the production of such particles at the LHC. All these theories predict that these particles would disintegrate immediately. Black holes, therefore, would have no time to start accreting matter and to cause macroscopic effects.Although stable microscopic black holes are not expected in theory, study of the consequences of their production by cosmic rays shows that they would be harmless. Collisions at the LHC differ from cosmic-ray collisions with astronomical bodies like the Earth in that new particles produced in LHC collisions tend to move more slowly than those produced by cosmic rays. Stable black holes could be either electrically charged or neutral. If they had electric charge, they would interact with ordinary matter and be stopped while traversing the Earth, whether produced by cosmic rays or the LHC. The fact that the Earth is still here rules out the possibility that cosmic rays or the LHC could produce dangerous charged microscopic black holes. If stable microscopic black holes had no electric charge, their interactions with the Earth would be very weak. Those produced by cosmic rays would pass harmlessly through the Earth into space, whereas those produced by the LHC could remain on Earth. However, there are much larger and denser astronomical bodies than the Earth in the Universe. Black holes produced in cosmic-ray collisions with bodies such as neutron stars and white dwarf stars would be brought to rest. The continued existence of such dense bodies, as well as the Earth, rules out the possibility of the LHC producing any dangerous black holes.StrangeletsStrangelet is the term given to a hypothetical microscopic lump of ‘strange matter’ containing almost equal numbers of particles called up, down and strange quarks. According to most theoretical work, strangelets should change to ordinary matter within a thousand-millionth of a second. But could strangelets coalesce with ordinary matter and change it to strange matter? This question was first raised before the start up of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, RHIC, in 2000 in the United States. A study at the time showed that there was no cause for concern, and RHIC has now run for eight years, searching for strangelets without detecting any. At times, the LHC will run with beams of heavy nuclei, just as RHIC does. The LHC’s beams will have more energy than RHIC, but this makes it even less likely that strangelets could form. It is difficult for strange matter to stick together in the high temperatures produced by such colliders, rather as ice does not form in hot water. In addition, quarks will be more dilute at the LHC than at RHIC, making it more difficult to assemble strange matter. Strangelet production at the LHC is therefore less likely than at RHIC, and experience there has already validated the arguments that strangelets cannot be produced. Vacuum bubblesThere have been speculations that the Universe is not in its most stable configuration, and that perturbations caused by the LHC could tip it into a more stable state, called a vacuum bubble, in which we could not exist. If the LHC could do this, then so could cosmic-ray collisions. Since such vacuum bubbles have not been produced anywhere in the visible Universe, they will not be made by the LHC.Magnetic monopolesMagnetic monopoles are hypothetical particles with a single magnetic charge, either a north pole or a south pole. Some speculative theories suggest that, if they do exist, magnetic monopoles could cause protons to decay. These theories also say that such monopoles would be too heavy to be produced at the LHC. Nevertheless, if the magnetic monopoles were light enough to appear at the LHC, cosmic rays striking the Earth’s atmosphere would already be making them, and the Earth would very effectively stop and trap them. The continued existence of the Earth and other astronomical bodies therefore rules out dangerous proton-eating magnetic monopoles light enough to be produced at the LHC.more: http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/en/LHC/Safety-en.html

 

[Christina]

Well I dont know about black holes but messingwith Strong Magnetic fields can have some strange results,Strange phenomena may be more closely linked with strong magnetics then is commonly thought. For example, some people have reported encounters with apparitions at or just after MRI's (strong magnetic fields are used). OK, an artifact of stress and magnetics on the brain, you're thinking? Well, consider the article from the 2004 Radiology Today Vol. 5 No. 21 Page 22 titled "Magnetic Contamination: The Ghost of MRI Past." Goes just a bit beyond strange...http://www.radiologytoday.net/archive/rt_101104p22.shtmlThen there's the Philadelphia Experiment and its use of ultra-strong magnetics that may have warped time/space if you believe the legend. Or was it just 'legend"?read one story at linkhttp://www.spiritual-endeavors.org/abilities/phila.htm

 

[Christina]

UPDATE: Court action takenCritics who say the world's largest atom-smasher could destroy the world have brought their claims to courtrooms in Europe and the United States - and although the claims are getting further consideration, neither court will hold up next week's official startup of the Large Hadron Collider.The main event took place today in Honolulu, where a federal judge is mulling over the federal government's request to throw out a civil lawsuit filed by retired nuclear safety officer Walter Wagner and Spanish science writer Luis Sancho.Meanwhile, legal action is pending as well at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, France. Last week, the court agreed to review doomsday claims from a group of professors and students, primarily from Germany and Austria. However, the court rejected a call for the immediate halt of operations at the LHC.What it's all aboutIn the U.S. as well as the European lawsuit, the plaintiffs claim that those involved in the particle collider's operation have not adequately addressed the idea that the LHC could create globe-gobbling microscopic black holes or other catastrophes such as matter-wrecking strangelets or magnetic monopoles. They're calling for further safety reviews to be conducted.The defendants - including the U.S. Department of Energy as well as Europe's CERN particle-physics center - say such fears already have been knocked down in a series of safety reports. The reports, drawn up by leading researchers in high-energy physics, note that cosmic-ray collisions are many times more energetic and prevalent than the collisions expected at the LHC. If the LHC were capable of creating cosmic catastrophes, they would already have been seen many times over in the wider universe, even in the unlikeliest circumstances, the researchers say.Past "big-bang machines" have faced similar legal challenges, but the worries are emerging anew because the LHC will smash protons together at energies seven times higher than the current world record, held by the Tevatron at Fermilab in Illinois.Physicists hope to gain new insights into mysteries of the universe ranging from dark matter to supersymmetric particles. The main quarry is an as-yet-undetected subatomic particle called the Higgs boson, also known as the "God Particle." The Higgs boson is the only fundamental particle predicted by current theory that has not yet been found. If it does not exist, that would add weight to alternative theories that depend on extra dimensions of space-time.Theorists say the LHC could create microscopic black holes - or, more accurately, subatomic knots of ultra-concentrated energy - only if there are extra dimensions. Current theory also dictates that these knots would unravel instantly. The LHC's critics take issue with that particular claim.In any case, the collider won't be in a position to create any type of black hole for months. The scheduled Sept. 10 turn-on would circulate only one beam of protons around the LHC's 17-mile-round ring at low energy. The first low-energy collisions won't occur until at least a month from now, and the device won't achieve its top collision energy until next year. That's why the courts are not rushing to rule on the critics' claims.What's happening in courtBoth sides in the federal lawsuit contributed to a flurry of filings in the days before today's hearing in District Judge Helen Gillmor's Honolulu courtroom.The federal government's attorneys, representing the Energy Department, wanted Gillmor to dismiss the suit or render a summary judgment against Wagner and Sancho - on the grounds that the suit's outcome won't affect operations at the European collider, and that the plaintiffs missed their deadlines for legal filings.In response, the plaintiffs insisted that their challenge was timely and said the defendants' past assurances did not ease their concerns about the safety issues. They called for the case to continue toward trial, with a tentative date of June 2009 already scheduled. In the next legal volley, Bruce Strauss, who was the Energy Department's associate program manager for the LHC construction project, took aim at Wagner's credentials as well as his arguments. Strauss wrote that assessing the LHC's safety would "require competency in the field of high-energy physics, not health physics or nuclear medicine." Strauss also questioned Wagner's claims about his role in research, citing recent searches of scientific literature.Strauss said that the federal lawsuit would have no effect on LHC operations because the federal role in building the collider ended a while ago. He said federal funds were now slated to go only toward supporting research activities at the LHC, to the tune of $10 million a month.http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...02/1326534.aspx

 

[Christina]

Now they are getting death thearts from people afraid the World will end next week.................Scientists working on the world's biggest machine are being besieged by phone calls and emails from people who fear the world will end next Wednesday, when the gigantic atom smasher starts up.Rap about Large Hadron Collider becomes YouTube hitThe Big Bang: atom-smashing could uncover truthTime travellers from the future 'could be here in weeks' Time travellers from the future 'could be here in weeks'By Roger Highfield, Science EditorLast Updated: 6:01pm GMT 06/02/2008 The first time travellers from the future could materialise on Earth within a few weeks.Physicists around the world are excitedly awaiting the start up of the £4.65 billion Large Hadron Collider, LHC - the most powerful atom-smasher ever built - which is supposed to shed new light on the particles and forces at work in the cosmos and reproduce conditions that date to near the Big Bang of creation. Prof Irina Aref'eva and Dr Igor Volovich, mathematical physicists at the Steklov Mathematical Institute in Moscow believe that the vast experiment at CERN, the European particle physics centre near Geneva in Switzerland, may turn out to be the world's first time machine, reports New Scientist.The debut in early summer could provide a landmark because travelling into the past is only possible - if it is possible at all - as far back as the point of creation of the first time machine.That means 2008 could become "Year Zero" for temporal travel, they argue.Time travel was born when Albert Einstein's colleague, Kurt Gödel, used Einstein's theory of relativity to show that travel into the past was possible.Ever since he unveiled this idea in 1949, eminent physicists have argued against time travel because it undermines ideas of cause and effect to create paradoxes: a time traveller could go back to kill his grandfather so that he is never born in the first place.But, sixty years later, there is still no fundamental reason why time travellers cannot put historians out of business.But the Russians argue that when the energies of the LHC are concentrated into a subatomic particle - a trillionth the size of a mosquito - they can do strange things to the fabric of the universe, which is a blend of space and time that scientists called spacetime. Scientists get death threats over Large Hadron Colliderhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtm...5/scilhc105.xml

 

[Jordan]

(kriss;58368)
Now they are getting death thearts from people afraid the World will end next week.................Scientists working on the world's biggest machine are being besieged by phone calls and emails from people who fear the world will end next Wednesday, when the gigantic atom smasher starts up.Rap about Large Hadron Collider becomes YouTube hitThe Big Bang: atom-smashing could uncover truthTime travellers from the future 'could be here in weeks' Scientists get death threats over Large Hadron Colliderhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtm...5/scilhc105.xml
*Sigh*A Time travel machine? Where is faith at? Does not everybody should know that God is in control...Luke 18:8 - I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

 

[Christina]

Its this machine they are going to start up Jag they dont know what it will do thats why they have tried to stop it in court and they are getting death threats they say it could bend space and time.

 

[tomwebster]

(kriss;58394)
... they say ....
They have been wrong many times. Remember when that old Galileo guy started looking out into space and thought the earth went around the sun???Or when that crazy man took those ships out past where the earth ended?

 

[Christina]

Agreed but which one is wrong ? the scientists that are for it or the ones that are against it?guess we'll see next week.

Gods in control so Im not wasting much time worrying about it. Sense we know the World doesnt End til God Ends it. But they could cause us more problems then we have already I suppose.

 

[Jordan]

(kriss;58412)
Agreed but which one is wrong ? the scientists that are for it or the ones that are against it?guess we'll see next week.

Gods in control so Im not wasting much time worrying about it. Sense we know the World doesnt End til God Ends it. But they could cause us more problems then we have already I suppose.
I say "scientists" that are for it are wrong. Personally I think this machine they are making is just a waste of time...when they should be doing something different...:study: :bible:This is probably one of the reason, people go with human reasoning over trusting God, when He is in control.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Hahaha, this is funny stuff! OOOOHHHH< the little black holes are gonna take over the earth! It's like the futurama episode when time kept bouncing around. Has anyone not heard of Steven Hawkins new deal? I argued this with some people about a decade before about the black holes not being huge gravitational masses/antimasses. They're actually throwing particles outward rather than drawing them in. Steven Hawkins combined 2 of Einsteins theories and equasions into one, and actually proved that black holes are infact dispensing particles rather than drawing in. I don't know how I knew that, but it seemed an obvious fact. But really when we look at what black holes really are, you can obviously know what's going on with them. I think this whole time warp deal associated with them is just a beautiful romantic ideal.Space and time may infact have a "curve" and may even be proven mathematically, however, that doesn't say that time has a physical existence. Such as the theory of relativity. In my opinion the whole space time continium is further fact and proof of a dying universe. Time is added to the calender every single year. We get milliseconds of time added to each day. This makes sense, The sun is a mass of burning gasses and "black matter" Very dense. So combined with the equasions to keep the earth in orbit just perfectly, and the fact that gravity is caused by mass it's pretty cool. As the sun burns the fuel, the mass get's a little smaller, So, with little mass and the same equasion to keep the earth at speed we are actually slowly but surely "flying off our rocker". If given enough time, the earth will litteraly spin out of control and float off into space. (This also proves the bible correct, and to me shows another reason why God will create a new heaven and a new earth, by including the entire universe, and how the bible says All things pass away)As far as time travel, the whole Idea that "The closer you get to the speed of light the slower time goes, the faster you get the more fuel is consumed, so since time goes slower the faster you go it's impossible to consume the last drop of fuel to push you past the speed of light" is rediculous to me. Although it's been proven by atomic clocks, I'm not so sure they're accurate, and accurate with eachother and the "proof" is only millionths of a second and from space. I've seen many many inherent flaws in the "scietific method" much like a religous debate. However, it seems that you can put past in the form of light and energy. Every thing has energy and uses energy and energy can't be lost or created according to the laws of thermodynamics (2nd law). Imprints of energy of a lifeform as having existed is still present. Be it the form of a light "memory" traveling through space as a blurred reflection much like the suns rays or the rays of any other star, we're actually seeing the past light.Okay, now I got off on a tangent. It's hard to put these to words it's almost like I have parts in my mind that know this stuff and it all comes like lightening, but trying to convert it to an inner monologue is almost skitzophrenic.My original deal here was about the Particle Accelerator, which is mostly been abandoned for black hole research and is now being used for the "Big Bang Theory" research. They've used it and created some form of something, I haven't fully read or understood. But they still can't figure out how "Life can come from it".