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Featured Conjecture

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Episkopos, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Now any honest person who owns a bible and believes in God knows that any kind of opinion as to what God will decide about us personally is strictly based on conjecture.

    I say an honest person. There are a lot of indoctrinated people out there. And a lot of dishonesty.

    con·jec·ture
    /kənˈjekCHər/
    noun
    noun: conjecture; plural noun: conjectures
    1. 1.
      an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
      "conjectures about the newcomer were many and varied"
      synonyms: guess, speculation, surmise, fancy, notion, belief, suspicion, presumption, assumption, theory, hypothesis, postulation, supposition; More
      inference, extrapolation, projection;
      approximation, estimate, rough calculation, rough idea;
      guesswork, guessing, surmising, imagining, theorizing;
      informalguesstimate, shot in the dark;
      informalballpark figure
      "we find his conjectures implausible"
      antonyms: fact
      • an unproven mathematical or scientific theorem.
        "the Goldbach conjecture"
      • (in textual criticism) the suggestion or reconstruction of a reading of a text not present in the original source.
    verb
    verb: conjecture; 3rd person present: conjectures; past tense: conjectured; past participle: conjectured; gerund or present participle: conjecturing
    1. 1.
      form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information.
      "many conjectured that the jury could not agree"
      synonyms: guess, speculate, surmise, infer, fancy, imagine, believe, think, suspect, presume, assume, hypothesize, take as a hypothesis, theorize, form/formulate a theory, suppose
      "I conjectured that the game was about to end"
      antonyms: know
      • (in textual criticism) propose (a reading).
    Why are there so many varied opinions, doctrines, and denominations in Christendom?

    Because people have replaced actual faith and knowledge of God with conjecture.

     
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Since the bible itself cannot give an honest person any real idea of one's own true condition, God must have another way of helping us to ascertain what we are lacking...or if we are going astray. So then God also gives us spiritual guidance...by the Holy Spirit...that we might know who we are and where we are headed.

    The bible is one reference point...but without the Spirit we could get things exactly wrong. So we need these 2 references...the word AND the Spirit. One is as a map and the other as a compass.

    But many believe that we only have one reference point...the bible...and that God doesn't come to us, visit us, reveal mysteries to us, inspect us, warn us...invite us ...and speak to us by His Spirit.

    For those who are deniers of the living God who visits and speaks to His people...this thread is NOT for you. Please peruse elsewhere. This thread is to encourage honest seekers and believers in the living God who seeks to enter into a living covenant with us.

    Indeed the bible points to a real connection...a real reconciliation between us and Almighty God.

    I want to show the biblical imperative of this relational connection with God. The written NT is but a testimony of the will of God that is to reconcile us to the Father. This was the mission of Jesus. This was the mission of the apostles. We read the testimony of the NT to that effect.
     
  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Now before this modern age of conjecture...as hard as that is to imagine in our time...God would work through His ministers...His servants, stewards...His sent ones. A visit from a steward of the mysteries of God was basically the same as being visited and inspected by God Himself. And people knew it.

    In those days the saints were seen as divine. The power exhibited by these was universally accepted as coming from God.

    There was no need of any conjecture.

    The successors of the apostles were the "bishops"...actually overseers.

    The word for overseer...episkopos...comes from episkopay...meaning visitation, inspection, oversight. (all Greek words being transliterated into an English form for pronunciation purposes)

    So then an overseer was first inspected or visited by God..so that he could in turn visit and inspect others...in order to have oversight over the local fellowship of the Body of Christ. And this was given by the Holy Spirit. At least in the early church it was so.

    1 Tim. 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

    According to human tradition the above verse is meant to mean that we are to be ambitious of the calling of an overseer. But that is NOT the sense of it.

    We are to desire a visitation from God OR His minister....in fact the latter being far more common since God will visit personally they whom He chooses to visit without desiring this. A visit of God to one person...if the Body is functioning...is a visit to all, as the benefits to the one are transferred to all the members. That is how prophecy works. If we receive a prophet in the name of a prophet, we get a prophet's reward, after all.

    So then the inspection of one member is to be passed on to others. Freely you have received...freely give.

    So we are to desire to be inspected of God for the sake of knowing our true standing with God. Who wouldn't want an appraisal of our lives from God?

    Hence there was no need for any conjecture of any kind. God was actively pursuing His people in visitations and inspections. And these ...later on in church history ....were turned into the anemic "pastoral" visits of clergymen after the time of the power in the church had passed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That gives a fairly clear statement, I appreciate that. This shows very clearly what you have in mind.

    Episkopos - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

    Through you, is that right? Am I hearing this correctly?

    Much love!
     
  5. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Agree, scripture AND The Holy Spirit!
    "Since the bible itself cannot give an honest person any real idea of one's own true condition"
    I have to take issue with this Epi as, I see a lot of scripture pertaining to the human condition...none of it good either, lol.
     
  6. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I put in for one of those supervisors jobs before, they said I was to short to be an overseer.
     
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  7. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Active Member

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    I believe the problem is arrogance and pride.

    God has reached down into our lives and into our world to reveal Himself to us and God’s fullest revelation of Himself is in the person of Jesus Christ.

    Some seem to believe this insufficient. They crave something more, something greater. They therefore create religious systems to assist their efforts as usurpers in the stead of God on their hearts throne, never realizing that Christ Himself eternally surpasses any theological system they would hold as another gospel.

    God has rejected the world’s wisdom and chosen what it esteems to be foolishness.
     
  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, I absolutely believe that without the Holy Spirit revealing God's Word to us, no one can understand Scripture. And that the purpose for the Bible is not that we have a book, rather, that through that Book we can come to know our Creator. And that this love relationship with our Creator is what it's all about.

    Much love!
     
  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree!

    I think people sometimes have a tendency to want to look outside of themselves for guidance, instead of looking to the Holy Spirit inside, and to actually learning the Bible, what it says, meditating on it.

    We can look to others, instead of looking to God, because we don't realize how close we are to His heart, how much He loves us, and how dearly He cares for us.

    There is a tendency to look to what we can see, instead of walking in faith as God intends us to do.

    Much love!
     
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  10. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Pride.

    Peace!
     
  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Too short of what? :rolleyes:
     
  12. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    It certainly related to the human condition in general which may include you, but specifics about you are not seen by just anyone who is reading or studying the scriptures. You may see yourself in them or God may show someone a particular relating to you for a specific purpose... but this would be a function of the Holy Spirit working in you or such other person. If it is done through another person and you need to know about it, likely God will soon enough let you know about it as well.
     
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  13. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Does not God ever call anyone anymore to do particular works or tasks that require things that may not always be needed regularly by every other called believer?

    "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Eph 4:11-15
     
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  14. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    But you certainly do not presume that every person who believes he is called by God to minister to others only does so because he is filled with pride in himself? For some this may be so, but God really has called some of them and to condemn them generally because of bad examples you may have seen certainly would not be proper for you, would it?
     
  15. John Caldwell

    John Caldwell Active Member

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    I believe so. We are members of a Body with different giftings.

    But I do not believe this extends to a continued revelation where Scripture left off.
     
  16. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Your handing out the report cards.
     
  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    No such revelation is required since we have already been told how things turn out. But how many people are paying attention?

    Imagine going into a building (knowing that it is about to collapse) to warn people to get out while there is still time...saying..."half of you will leave this building and survive, and the other half will remain in the building and perish."

    So then the people that heed the warning leave the building and survive...the others think...he's bluffing... or else ...who does he think he is? Still others listen to a person who speaks with confidence...this building will never fail...peace and safety...that man is a false prophet! And these words comfort the ones who want to believe they are safe.

    So then they who are meant to live...live...and they who are not of faith...perish. So that in spite of every warning...they who perish do so voluntarily since they lack faith in the warning. So the prophecy comes to pass exactly as stated. The ones who didn't fear and obey...perished.

    Rom. 9:21 Or does the potter not have authority over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel unto honor, but one unto dishonor?

    The righteousness of God is found in His testing of the human heart. He calls out...but only His sheep hear His voice. But if ANY listen to Him, they would be delivered. God has no favourites...it is ALL who would heed His words. So then His sheep are known by their obedience to His words of warning. BUT>>>

    Mat. 13:15 For the heart of this people has grown dull, and they barely hear with the ears, and they have closed their eyes, lest ever they should see with the eyes, and they should hear with the ears, and they should understand with the heart, and should turn, and I will heal them.'

    In the end we decide our own destiny...but just not in the way we think.

    The irony is that if the man who warns of the coming destruction was a false prophet then ALL the people could come out of the building to prove how wrong his prophecy was. But that never happens...because God has already foreseen the outcome. It is just a question as to which group you feel you belong with. Either they who fear the Lord and are humble...or they who feel perfectly safe without these.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  18. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    So is our salvation based on our performance in your opinion?
     
  19. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Just a simple yes or no is sufficient.
     
  20. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Opinion? The bible states that salvation ultimately is based on obedience. Whatever opinion you may entertain that goes contrary to that...well is your opinion. No one is going to be judged by their beliefs. Just their works that are of obedience to God's will...whether they realize they are pleasing to God or not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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