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Brakelite

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You can basically find two types of Muslim in the world.
One, the radical. He believes everything Islam, believers the only way to spread "the faith" is through politics and/or force.
The other type of Muslim is the one who fervently believes in his faith, believes that prayer and devotion to peace is the right way to interpret the Koran, lives his life with respect to others in business and personal life.
There are two types of Catholic in the world. They follow the same pattern as above. The force aspect of the political Catholic is not so apparent in the western world, however there are many who firmly believe that force ought to be applied should the circumstances be appropriate or legal. There are many Catholic groups in various parts of the world who have even qurite recently waged war on other faiths, just as Islam has.
I don't think the above is all that controversial. I think most of us are aware that those two basic paradigms do indeed exist within those faiths, with of course many individuals who would be somewhere in between. The controversial part lies here....
Are there developing within evangelicalism, that divide? Is evangelicalism being radicalized? Is evangelism in all three faith paradigms now sharing some similar characteristics and traits that reflect the increasing marginalisation of society and the trend toward compulsion on so many fronts? And finally, is that trend, especially within evangelicalism in America, fulfilling prophecy?
 
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Taken

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Is evangelicalism being radicalized? Is evangelism in all three faith paradigms now sharing some similar characteristics and traits that reflect the increasing marginalisation of society and the trend toward compulsion on so many fronts? And finally, is that trend, especially within evangelicalism in America, fulfilling prophecy?

Evangelical meaning....
of or according to the teaching of the Biblical gospel

Evangelical person....
...of or relating to a Christian sect, individual or group that stresses the authority of the Bible, the importance of believing that Jesus Christ saved you personally from sin or hell, and the preaching of these beliefs to other people.

Evangelical style/manner
Zealous.
Unashamedly revealing great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or an objective.

Radical....
especially of change or action relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something;
* Scripturally; encourage change from dead in sin, to eternal life.
* Secular Governance; encourage change from choosing ungodly to choosing godly governance.

* Evangelical Preaching FOCUSES with great enthusiasm Biblical Principles relating to MASTERS.

As in Scripture, the teaching is; An individual CAN NOT “SERVE” Two masters!

As in Scripture, the teaching is; God is the MASTER, WHOM an individual “Serves....BY serving OTHER individuals....NOT BY SERVING HIS MASTER!”

In a LIMITED form of Government, the Master is bound BY OATH to SERVE the people it “Governs”.
* In a REPUBLIC form of Government, the Master is LIMITED by express defined LIMITATIONS of HOW a Master, can SERVE ALL the people.
* In a pure DEMOCRACY form of Government, the Master is a RULER, UNLIMITED, by whatever momentary WHIMS a Majority WANTS, and to hell with the REST of the people.


In the US, all governments are established as REPUBLIC forms of Governments.

In the US, the US Federal Government IS a Republic form of Government, with continually SEATED, “officials”, having taken OATHS, YET GOVERN from their SEATS, AS HAVING POWER to GOVERN according to a pure Democracy.

Evangelicals teach and preach with enthusiasm...according to strict adherence of the Bible.

Josh 24:
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Shall you Keep your God given Liberty TO CHOOSE?
Shall you choose to SERVE the LORD?
Shall you choose to “seat governmental reps”; that SAYS your have NO CHOICE?


** Personally, I am fully supportive of evangelical clerics that preach...
To exercise your God given right to MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES, and KNOW WHY you are MAKING such choices.

** I see all day long, men of the public at large, wagging their tongue on what they claim to STAND FOR: with the MOST lame foolhardy reasoning of WHY....
 

Aunty Jane

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So much for being "no part of the world" (John 18:36).....the kingdom of God will not come by human efforts.
If you believe that God is in control, then why does he need us to do anything but preach the Kingdom message as Jesus instructed?

It is a message of peace, not war. Jesus never once rose up against the Roman government that was oppressing his people.
When he and his apostles were arrested, it was for preaching...not breaking the law by inciting to violence. They offered no resistance, but relied on God to see them through any trial. It doesn't matter who the President or the Prime Minister is, or isn't.....this is God's fight, not ours.

John 17:14-18...
"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 Just as You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world."

What the world is doing is what God has already foretold....its going to happen and its none of our business.
Christians have no nationality, and therefore cannot be patriots who will resort to violence to get their point across.
Whipping people up emotionally is not Christianity.

Live and let God.....
 

Brakelite

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Evangelical meaning....
of or according to the teaching of the Biblical gospel

Evangelical person....
...of or relating to a Christian sect, individual or group that stresses the authority of the Bible, the importance of believing that Jesus Christ saved you personally from sin or hell, and the preaching of these beliefs to other people.

Evangelical style/manner
Zealous.
Unashamedly revealing great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or an objective.

Radical....
especially of change or action relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something;
* Scripturally; encourage change from dead in sin, to eternal life.
* Secular Governance; encourage change from choosing ungodly to choosing godly governance.

* Evangelical Preaching FOCUSES with great enthusiasm Biblical Principles relating to MASTERS.

As in Scripture, the teaching is; An individual CAN NOT “SERVE” Two masters!

As in Scripture, the teaching is; God is the MASTER, WHOM an individual “Serves....BY serving OTHER individuals....NOT BY SERVING HIS MASTER!”

In a LIMITED form of Government, the Master is bound BY OATH to SERVE the people it “Governs”.
* In a REPUBLIC form of Government, the Master is LIMITED by express defined LIMITATIONS of HOW a Master, can SERVE ALL the people.
* In a pure DEMOCRACY form of Government, the Master is a RULER, UNLIMITED, by whatever momentary WHIMS a Majority WANTS, and to hell with the REST of the people.


In the US, all governments are established as REPUBLIC forms of Governments.

In the US, the US Federal Government IS a Republic form of Government, with continually SEATED, “officials”, having taken OATHS, YET GOVERN from their SEATS, AS HAVING POWER to GOVERN according to a pure Democracy.

Evangelicals teach and preach with enthusiasm...according to strict adherence of the Bible.

Josh 24:
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Shall you Keep your God given Liberty TO CHOOSE?
Shall you choose to SERVE the LORD?
Shall you choose to “seat governmental reps”; that SAYS your have NO CHOICE?


** Personally, I am fully supportive of evangelical clerics that preach...
To exercise your God given right to MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES, and KNOW WHY you are MAKING such choices.

** I see all day long, men of the public at large, wagging their tongue on what they claim to STAND FOR: with the MOST lame foolhardy reasoning of WHY....
Yet those very same people who created the republic did so with the intent that neither the government nor the church should rule other correct? So if evangelicalism has influence over government, and passes legislation that favors conservative politics, how is that not any different to the islamists doing the same in Saudi Arabia, and the Catholics doing the same in the Solomon islands? Now if the population in Saudi was 100% Muslim, then there probably won't be a problem; nor would there be an issue if all Solomon Islanders were Catholic, but that isn't the case, just as not all Americans are evangelical. Where then would religious liberty go for example for the native American? What of the protestants and Catholics in Saudi? What of protestants in the Solomon islands?
 
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Taken

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Yet those very same people who created the republic did so with the intent that neither the government nor the church should rule reach other correct?

The US government was founded on Biblical standards and principles.
Do you understand what Biblical standards and principles are?
One Lord God Almighty from whom an individuals Liberty is given.
(A Government does not GIVE men FREEDOM...God does.)
No law given on IF or WHAT an individual MUST Believe in or Worship.
(An individual can believe in God, believe in a god, worship what he pleases, or not.)

So if evangelicalism has influence over government, and passes legislation that favors conservative politics....

Evangelicalism teaches and preaches TO INDIVIDUALS to uphold the Lord God and His Biblical Word, FIRST in all things.
That includes those you choose to seat in positions that have governing powers.
If an individual himself sets the Lord Gods standards and principles above all other things.......does it stand to reason, whatever a man chooses would hold those same standards and principles?

Women choosing a husband, whose own standards and principles are Godly,
Then the expectation is the husband is the head of household, and conducts the management of the household according to Gods standards and principles.

Same effect......men choosing a wife...a helpmate, to foster the same standards and principles as she manages things within the household.

Same effect...fathers and mothers....managing over their children.

Same effect....fathers and mothers...monitoring what teachers teach their children.

Same effect....people at large....monitoring....what government officials, propose, do sneakedly behind closed doors, do openly in view, according to their limiting Oath, or their whims?

Same effect....what clerics teach and preach....according to Gods Word, or according to philosophers or men with reputations of popularity, looks, wealth?

Have you not noticed, the influx of Foreign Persons, Foreign Ideals, Foreign Governments .......
Foreign to a Republic, Foreign to Godly Standards and Principles, Foreign to God First, Foreign to long standing vested Americans?
INVADING the US at an alarming RATE....?
** And WHO And WHY, it is promoted, encouraged, helped financially, (even stealing and cheating), TO accomplish such an INVASION?
** Long standing vested Godly Americans, HAVE NOTICE, and OPEN their mouths IN unashamed zestful disagreement.
 
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JohnPaul

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You can basically find two types of Muslim in the world.
One, the radical. He believes everything Islam, believers the only way to spread "the faith" is through politics and/or force.
The other type of Muslim is the one who fervently believes in his faith, believes that prayer and devotion to peace is the right way to interpret the Koran, lives his life with respect to others in business and personal life.
There are two types of Catholic in the world. They follow the same pattern as above. The force aspect of the political Catholic is not so apparent in the western world, however there are many who firmly believe that force ought to be applied should the circumstances be appropriate or legal. There are many Catholic groups in various parts of the world who have even qurite recently waged war on other faiths, just as Islam has.
I don't think the above is all that controversial. I think most of us are aware that those two basic paradigms do indeed exist within those faiths, with of course many individuals who would be somewhere in between. The controversial part lies here....
Are there developing within evangelicalism, that divide? Is evangelicalism being radicalized? Is evangelism in all three faith paradigms now sharing some similar characteristics and traits that reflect the increasing marginalisation of society and the trend toward compulsion on so many fronts? And finally, is that trend, especially within evangelicalism in America, fulfilling prophecy?
All Muslims believe in turning everyone into a Muslim by force or whatever means necessary, all of them only believe in their pagan moon God Allah, and will willfully kill for him, hence so much violence and torture associated with them, I don't believe Catholics are in the same category as Muslims, for Catholics believe in God almighty and Christ as his only begotten son, that I must say, where Muslims do not and don't worship the same God we do, but a false God they name Allah after one of the hundreds of pagan Gods worshiped before the time of Mohamed.
 

Pathfinder7

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You can basically find two types of Muslim in the world.
One, the radical. He believes everything Islam, believers the only way to spread "the faith" is through politics and/or force.
The other type of Muslim is the one who fervently believes in his faith, believes that prayer and devotion to peace is the right way to interpret the Koran, lives his life with respect to others in business and personal life.
There are two types of Catholic in the world. They follow the same pattern as above. The force aspect of the political Catholic is not so apparent in the western world, however there are many who firmly believe that force ought to be applied should the circumstances be appropriate or legal. There are many Catholic groups in various parts of the world who have even qurite recently waged war on other faiths, just as Islam has.
I don't think the above is all that controversial. I think most of us are aware that those two basic paradigms do indeed exist within those faiths, with of course many individuals who would be somewhere in between. The controversial part lies here....
Are there developing within evangelicalism, that divide? Is evangelicalism being radicalized? Is evangelism in all three faith paradigms now sharing some similar characteristics and traits that reflect the increasing marginalisation of society and the trend toward compulsion on so many fronts? And finally, is that trend, especially within evangelicalism in America, fulfilling prophecy?
Evangelicalism/Evangelical Movement has..several camps in US.
---
Interest in political power/establishment..from 1980's.
- 'Jerry Falwell & Moral Majority' story..
- 1980's.
 

Taken

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Evangelicalism/Evangelical Movement has..several camps in US.
---
Interest in political power/establishment..from 1980's.
- 'Jerry Falwell & Moral Majority' story..
- 1980's.

Christian churches broadly for decades preached interest in political establishments for over a century. Routinely supporting in prayers for the seated politico’s, the military, organizations to aid the wounded.
The more corrupt, dictating and liberty grabs DC politicians have gandered the more verbal Church clerics have openly opposed with verbal tongue lashing... and agree since the 80’s that been more open with clerics who have TV air time, and news reports.
 

Oceanprayers

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If "you" have to kill people so that witnesses to those murders will believe in "your" God so as not to be next, you're not spreading the message of the God of love nor the Prince of peace.

Afterward, there can be no surprise, nor those left to object, when the world majority population thus converted demonstrate homicidal rage, intolerance, and oppressive zeal over others.
Because they are made in that image and likeness.
 
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Pathfinder7

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Christian churches broadly for decades preached interest in political establishments for over a century. Routinely supporting in prayers for the seated politico’s, the military, organizations to aid the wounded.
The more corrupt, dictating and liberty grabs DC politicians have gandered the more verbal Church clerics have openly opposed with verbal tongue lashing... and agree since the 80’s that been more open with clerics who have TV air time, and news reports.
'Jerry Falwell & Moral Majority' played an important role.
- Opening doors..
- Even though..it did not continue.
I remember those days..
---
I have been observing Evangelical Movement/Evagelicalism..from 1970's.
---
Since the time of Constantine..'Christians/Church & Political Power/Establishment' issue
has been.. an ongoing/continuing issue.
- Catholic & Protestant history.
 

bbyrd009

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All Muslims believe in turning everyone into a Muslim by force or whatever means necessary, all of them only believe in their pagan moon God Allah, and will willfully kill for him, hence so much violence and torture associated with them, I don't believe Catholics are in the same category as Muslims, for Catholics believe in God almighty and Christ as his only begotten son, that I must say, where Muslims do not and don't worship the same God we do, but a false God they name Allah after one of the hundreds of pagan Gods worshiped before the time of Mohamed.
you never met a muslim, huh?

“crusades”
 

Brakelite

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The US government was founded on Biblical standards and principles.
Do you understand what Biblical standards and principles are?
One Lord God Almighty from whom an individuals Liberty is given.
(A Government does not GIVE men FREEDOM...God does.)
No law given on IF or WHAT an individual MUST Believe in or Worship.
(An individual can believe in God, believe in a god, worship what he pleases, or not.)
Agreed. The government's responsibility lies solely in protecting those God given freedoms.

Evangelicalism teaches and preaches TO INDIVIDUALS to uphold the Lord God and His Biblical Word, FIRST in all things.
That includes those you choose to seat in positions that have governing powers.
If an individual himself sets the Lord Gods standards and principles above all other things.......does it stand to reason, whatever a man chooses would hold those same standards and principles?
Of course. We as Christians have a responsibility to eject officials who are honest, have integrity, and aren't hypocrites. The trick today is discerning who is who.

Have you not noticed, the influx of Foreign Persons, Foreign Ideals, Foreign Governments .......
Foreign to a Republic, Foreign to Godly Standards and Principles, Foreign to God First, Foreign to long standing vested Americans?
INVADING the US at an alarming RATE....?
** And WHO And WHY, it is promoted, encouraged, helped financially, (even stealing and cheating), TO accomplish such an INVASION?
** Long standing vested Godly Americans, HAVE NOTICE, and OPEN their mouths IN unashamed zestful disagreement.
Yep, I have noticed that. And whose responsibility is it to defend the nation against those people? The government, or the church?
 

Brakelite

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All Muslims believe in turning everyone into a Muslim by force or whatever means necessary, all of them only believe in their pagan moon God Allah, and will willfully kill for him, hence so much violence and torture associated with them, I don't believe Catholics are in the same category as Muslims, for Catholics believe in God almighty and Christ as his only begotten son, that I must say, where Muslims do not and don't worship the same God we do, but a false God they name Allah after one of the hundreds of pagan Gods worshiped before the time of Mohamed.
If you believe that Rome is less dangerous than Riyadh, or Mecca, you haven't read your history. And you aren't watching the right news channels.
 

Oceanprayers

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You can basically find two types of Muslim in the world.
One, the radical. He believes everything Islam, believers the only way to spread "the faith" is through politics and/or force.
The other type of Muslim is the one who fervently believes in his faith, believes that prayer and devotion to peace is the right way to interpret the Koran, lives his life with respect to others in business and personal life.
There are two types of Catholic in the world. They follow the same pattern as above. The force aspect of the political Catholic is not so apparent in the western world, however there are many who firmly believe that force ought to be applied should the circumstances be appropriate or legal. There are many Catholic groups in various parts of the world who have even qurite recently waged war on other faiths, just as Islam has.
I don't think the above is all that controversial. I think most of us are aware that those two basic paradigms do indeed exist within those faiths, with of course many individuals who would be somewhere in between. The controversial part lies here....
Are there developing within evangelicalism, that divide? Is evangelicalism being radicalized? Is evangelism in all three faith paradigms now sharing some similar characteristics and traits that reflect the increasing marginalisation of society and the trend toward compulsion on so many fronts? And finally, is that trend, especially within evangelicalism in America, fulfilling prophecy?
The misnomer the west has about Islam, and our media is largely responsible for generating this image immediately after 9-11, is that thete are two kinds of Islam, Islamists.
The radical and the moderate.

That's not true. Islam is one way, one word. Islam is not moderate, it is not tolerant. And what we today call terrorism is part and parcel of its doctrine.
 
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Taken

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Agreed. The government's responsibility lies solely in protecting those God given freedoms.

Yes.

Of course. We as Christians have a responsibility to eject officials who are honest, have integrity, and aren't hypocrites. The trick today is discerning who is who.

I have a narrow criteria to consider lending a supportive vote;
* career politicians - no; /
* out of the people who can barely say Constitution let alone have read it or understand it - no; /
* unassimilated short term vested foreigners - no;
* anti-Christs - no;/
* special interest groups touted agenda - no;/

Ideal would be a long term vested American Godly man with the understanding of the US Constitution, upstanding intent and more erasers than pens in hand.

Yep, I have noticed that. And whose responsibility is it to defend the nation against those people? The government, or the church?

The highest authority, is the American People. (Not the Feds and definitely not the 50 million illegals.)
 

Enoch111

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Is evangelism in all three faith paradigms now sharing some similar characteristics and traits that reflect the increasing marginalisation of society and the trend toward compulsion on so many fronts? And finally, is that trend, especially within evangelicalism in America, fulfilling prophecy?
There is no "evangelism" in all three faiths. You meant "evangelicalism" no doubt, and your premise is false. Radical Islam seeks to steal, kill, and destroy (Satan's agenda). Catholicism has long ago given up such radicalism. And evangelical Christianity (when properly seen) simply presents Gospel truth.
 

Aunty Jane

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bbyrd009 said:
Aunty Jane said:
its going to happen and its none of our business

Aunty Jane said:
18 Just as You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world."

hmm
Why did Jesus come into the world? Was it to meddle in politics? No....the "times of the Gentiles" had not run their course, (Luke 21:24) so Jesus did not interfere with the political situation, even though his people were oppressed by the Roman Empire. Daniel had prophesied that Rome would be followed by another world power which turned out to be Britannia and who was later reunited with her wayward sons in America to form the Anglo-American alliance......"in the time of the end". "The end" was to come in the days of those final "kings". (Daniel 2:44)

Jesus was sent to teach, (John 7:15-16) to correct the wrong doctrines of the Pharisees, (Matthew 15:7-9) and to gather his disciples in preparation for the institution of a new covenant, long ago prophesied by Jeremiah. (Jeremiah 31:31-32)

Just as God sent Jesus into the world to preach about God's Kingdom, (not to support man's kingdoms. John 18:36) so too Jesus sent his disciples out into the world to do a work greater than his own..."to the most distant part of the earth". (John 14:12; Acts 1:8)

So the world's rulership in the hands of God's adversary (1 John 5:19) was not to be opposed or interfered with in any way by Christ's disciples. Those who want to interfere are proving that they are not taught by Christ at all.

We have one job.....as Paul said in his second letter to Timothy....
"preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; correct, rebuke, and exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5 But as for you, use self-restraint in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."

That's it.....we don't need people to whip us up emotionally...that was never in the instructions.
 
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