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Controversial... Hence debate forum.

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Brakelite, Jan 23, 2022.

  1. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    Great.

    Are you still following the RC doctrine?

    I did not read the whole thread, just the last part of it.
    Hard to figure out what you are by reading your last posts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  2. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Christendom’s record speaks for itself. It fulfills all the things that Jesus and the apostles warned about....”the wheat and the weeds”....the divisions, disunity and internal conflicts, not to mention the bloodshed (Isaiah 1:15)....and those in Christendom do not even notice that their “Christianity” is very different from what Christ taught, because it was corrupted so long ago that people think that their lies are the truth. (Acts 20:30; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Thessalonians 2:3)
    But that is for each and every one of us to decide for ourselves. No one comes to the Son without an invitation from the Father. (John 6:44; 65) Apparently, the devil issues fake invitations as well.

    Christ’s disciples suffered at the hands of those who claimed to worship the same God. History repeats because people never learn from the lessons of the past. Christendom is a mirror image of first century Judaism, condemned by Jesus outright...”teaching the commands of men as doctrines”. (Matthew 15:7-9)

    1 Peter 4:16-19....
    “But if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but glorify God that you bear such a name. For it is time for judgment to begin, starting with the house of God. And if it starts with us, what will be the fate of those who are disobedient to the gospel of God? And if the righteous are barely saved, what will become of the ungodly and sinners? So then let those who suffer according to the will of God entrust their souls to a faithful Creator as they do good.” (NET)

    Judgment starts with the ones claiming Christ as their “Lord”....and notice that “the righteous are barely saved”.....sobering, isn’t it?

    Since the Bible does not say that Christ “rose bodily”, we believe what the scriptures say, and that the Bible itself explains Jesus’ physical appearance after his resurrection as a spirit.

    “Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit.(1 Peter 3:18 NET)
    Jesus was in spirit form before coming to fulfill his earthly mission, and returned there in the same form. Spirit beings had materialised before when angels visited God’s human servants on earth. Why would Jesus not have that ability also. The Bible says that he “appeared” to his disciples.....it even says that he “disappeared”....so he was not a human of flesh and blood....but “flesh and bone”, able to materialise in any body he chose.....sometimes it was with wounds to convince his apostles....at other times no mention is made of his physical appearance aside from the fact that he was not recognised.

    You spew hatred with every post. I think we get it....you hate Jehovah’s Witnesses. Lots of people do because we don’t accept what you accept as “Christian” teaching. (John 15:18-21)
    Each of us will stand or fall by what we accept as truth. Your truth is not my truth....but your salvation is not in my hands. I am merely a messenger.

    The real difference is that you are not Jesus, and you do not have any authority to judge anyone’s salvation or lack of it....in fact Jesus warned that if you judge others as to worthiness of salvation, you will be judged in like manner. So I would be careful if I were you.....those whom Jesus says he “never knew” were going to be shocked at his rejection, imagining that their “Christianity” was acceptable to him......but he says that he “never knew “ them so it “never“ was. (Matthew 7:21-23)
     
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  3. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    If the current pandemic ends and we are permitted to go door to door again, anyone who asks me if I am “born again”, I will be happy to tell them that I am not....and why I am not unhappy about that in the least.

    I am sure that most “born again” Christians have no real idea what it even means to be “born again”.

    Tell me what you think it means.....
     
  4. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    LOL...and that is all it said? :rolleyes: Are you aware of the scriptural support for that statement....?
     
  5. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Soldier of Jehovah and Christ

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    No I am no longer a practicing Catholic, I’m non denominational at this point.
     
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  6. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Soldier of Jehovah and Christ

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    I never liked the term Born Again myself, and don’t consider myself Born Again.
     
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  7. Desire Of All Nations

    Desire Of All Nations Well-Known Member

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    Islam's history of violence pales in comparison to Catholicism's history of violence. The most conservative figures places the victims of Catholic-related violence at 50 million at least. The Bible is a lot more concerned about Catholic violence than Islamic violence, in part because Catholics have inflicted unspeakable havoc, destruction, death, and suffering on people in the name of Jesus and His Father. The Bible itself shows that God is so concerned about Catholic violence that a good portion of Revelation is dedicated to warning people against the deception and violence that this religion has engaged in throughout the entirety of its existence.

    And before anyone claims that i'm just trying to bash the church, Rev. 17:5-6 states in no uncertain terms that this church and its protesting churches have murdered and persecuted more of God's true followers than any other false religion on the planet. This same book says Catholicism has been empowered by Satan for its entire existence and will once again go on a murdering spree when it is given the political power to enforce its dogma as law, just like it always has throughout the past 1800 years. God is a lot more concerned with Catholic-related violence because His true followers have always ended up being the target of this church's violence because they keep His commandments and refuse to subscribe to the trinity doctrine.

    There is no mistake to be made about which religion God considers to be more dangerous between Catholicism and Islam, and it's high time people woke up and realize that the piousness of the Catholic church is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide its malevolent nature. The Bible says it looks like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. What does that tell you?
    According to the Bible's standards of what makes someone a Christian, there wasn't a single Christian to be found among any of them. Claiming Christianity is nowhere the same thing as actually being a true adherent of biblical Christianity.
    What you personally think doesn't matter. Daniel and other books describe God's Kingdom as a literal world ruling empire that will rule this planet. Have you not read Daniel's plain statements in chapter 2 where he distinctly tells Nebuchadnezzar that God's Kingdom will rule over the people of this world just as surely as the other 4 kingdoms in that dream did? Why do people insist on treating plain statements like they're merely allegorical or symbolic?
     
  8. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Jesus warned about judging hypocritically by condemning others for doing what they are themselves doing. and said to judge righteous judgment - which doesn’t preclude refuting false doctrines that result In damnation that the various cults have.

    Scripture, not me, is clear that Jesus rose bodily from the dead, and that confessing belief that Jesus rose from the dead is a required salvational belief, per Romans 10:8-13.

    No one who denies Jesus rose bodily from the dead, can be saved.

    Scripture is clear God must be worshiped in spirit and in TRUTH, which means that if someone has the wrong Jesus - such as a Jesus who was created as the angel Michael, who died but didn’t rise bodily from the dead - can a false Jesus save them?

    I wouldn’t want to bet my soul on that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  9. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Amen! There are TWO of us that WOULD NOT "make that bet" with our soul:

    "Another" Jesus
     
  10. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    The inquisition and the crusades against Jews and Protestants were evil - the crusades that stopped the invading Islamic hordes from conquering all of Europe, were not evil.

    The Roman sect is corrupt, but that they are liable to start killing people again is highly unlikely, whereas Islam has a built in ideology of world conquest, by any means necessary, and radical Islamists are those who are devout and following Islam the way Mohammed practiced it - the peaceful Muslims are the lukewarm ones.

    Right now Iran is working on getting atomic bombs that they can put on missiles and blow Israel off the face of the earth.

    Far as I know the pope isn’t enriching uranium in the Vatican, but Iran sure is.

    There’s something like 3,000 Islamic terrorist acts worldwide each year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
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  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ya, and i guess we're funding most of them?
    lol
    are Catholics generally this rude and overbearing as guests on other sites, i wonder?
    you dont have the first clue as to what you are talking about, those were Israelis cheering, and ben Laden would have loved to have been responsible so that he could take credit, but declined to do so. It was so obviously an inside job that the Fire Dept wasnt fooled any, though.
    well, if you wanted to do the RCC any favors you might consider claiming to be anyway :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  12. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Curtis, I do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead "bodily"....I believe that the scripture says that God raised his son from the dead, "in the spirit"....that is, in spirit form so that he could return to the spirit realm from whence he came. (1 Peter 3:18)

    Let's see what Paul actually said in those verses....
    "But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (NASB)

    I have looked up this passage in several different translation and I can find no scripture that says Christ was raised "bodily"....not even the KJV. So where do you get this idea that he was raised in human bodily form? No scripture says that.
    We must believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, but his was the "first" of its kind, meaning that all other resurrections had actually raised humans back to their former state. e.g. Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)

    Jesus is called "firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18) not because he was the first human to experience a resurrection (Jesus himself performed several resurrections) but he was the first human to die and to receive a heavenly or spiritual resurrection. God gave his son a new body just as he gave him a new body when he was born as the man Jesus.

    God resurrected his son in spirit form, the same form as he had before his mission on earth. He came from heaven and was returning there. Flesh and blood is a barrier. That barrier was pictured by the heavy curtain separating the Holy Compartment from the Most Holy in the Temple.....when Jesus died, that curtain was rent in two from top to bottom, signalling that the way was now open for others to follow....but only the elect were promised positions in God's Kingdom. Only 144,000 are 'elected' (chosen by God) for those positions.(Revelation 20:6)
    No one went to heaven before Jesus. (John 3:13)

    That is very true.....but what if you are the ones with the false Jesus, believing that he is part of a triune godhead that is actually never mentioned in the Bible? Will Jesus judge those who have altered the very nature of his God and Father, and have misrepresented the position of his son, as those who "worship with spirit and truth"? What if that old lie was created by the devil, who has been lying from his beginning. For those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment, there will be a moment of horror as they realize that the devil deceived them, well and truly. This is why only "few" are on the road to life....the "many" are on a super highway to destruction. (Matthew 7:13-14)

    There is no such thing as "damnation". All God ever offered to his human children was "life or death"....never did he offer them "heaven or hell". (Matthew 10:28)
    That is Christendom's own invention.

    I believe that you already have....
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  13. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Everyone of the 911 attackers were from Saudi Arabia and were Muslims.

    Muslims attacked the twin towers when Clinton was president, with a van bomb, but failed to bring that tower down.

    European intelligence agencies warned 5 years in advance that Muslims had a plot to fly jets into buildings, but nothing was done.

    Islam did it, but Bush was complicit in the plot - they wanted an act of terrorism so we would accept loss of constitutional rights in the patriot act for one, in the guise of protection from terrorists.

    The bushes are all globalists, especially Bush Sr, aka mr, CIA.
     
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  14. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    You mean other than where Jesus said He would rise bodily from the dead?

    He said, tear down this temple, HIS BODY, and in three days it will be raised back up again.

    Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

    Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

    Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his BODY.


    That’s incontrovertible.

    Also Jesus showed His risen body to the apostles, and flat out said, He was NOT a spirit, because a spirit HAS NOT a body of flesh and bone as they SAW that He had, and even touched it:

    Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

    Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

    Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

    Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

    Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

    Luk 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.


    The watchtower accuses Jesus of lying, by claiming He appeared in a physical body to prove He rose spiritually - but that’s NOT what He said. He SAID a spirit has not flesh and bone like He had - this makes Jesus deceptive and a liar if he fooled them with a flesh body - one with the healed scars from crucifixion.

    Therefore, despite the scriptures the watchtower twists to make Jesus a liar twice - once when He said the temple of HIS BODY would be raised in three days, and then when He said He wasn’t a ghost, but had a real body - and even ate fish to further prove it - it’s obvious He arose bodily and physically.

    Thus when Romans 10 makes belief in His resurrection a salvational criteria (salvation requirement), scripture makes it clear it’s a bodily resurrection one must believe in.

    Not to mention that spirits are eternal and cannot die - thus there’s no such thing as a spiritual resurrection.

    The spirit is formed by God inside man, and in fact our spirit is US, it’s who we are - our spirit temporarily lives in a home called our mortal body, and it leaves the body at death - and since it doesn’t die, it can’t be resurrected- only physical bodies can be resurrected.

    To whit:

    Zechariah 12:1

    The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:


    1 Corinthians 2:11

    For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.


    Job 32:8

    But there is a spirit in man,

    And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding.


    1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknowntongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.



    Ecclesiastes 12:7

    Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,

    And the spirit will return to God who gave it.



    Ecclesiastes 3:20-21

    All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

    We are a spirit. Our spirit thinks, prays, gets understanding, and at death of our house - the body - we leave our home, and go back to God who gave it, and go UPWARD.

    Remember that on the cross as He died, Jesus turned His spirit over to the Father:

    Luk 23:46 Then Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Father, I surrender my Spirit into your hands.” And he took his last breath and died.

    Jesus’ spirit wasn’t in the tomb needing resurrection- His body was.

    His body was missing from the tomb because Jesus was walking around in it, showing Himself to the apostles, and to 500 Christians for 40 days.

    The watchtower claims God disintegrated His body in the tomb, leaving Jesus an invisible ghost.

    I wouldn’t bet my soul on the watchtower misinformation on the resurrection of Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  15. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I saw how JW's twisted scriptures and the whole issue on their website.
    No use even getting into it because I do have a bit of JW experiences and I know where it leads to.
    The Watchtower Society is way of track. The previous post by Curtis sums some of it up.
     
  16. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree its a pointless exercise for the irresistible force to meet the immovable object.

    In your opinion.....which counts for what?

    Why? Because you agree with him? What if you are both dead wrong....? What then?


    We all have to choose our truth and in doing so we reveal to God who we really are.....

    You are free to believe whatever you wish, but please remember that God is the judge of what is true worship and what is false.
    Only at the judgment will we all know for sure, who got it right and who got it horribly wrong.....since few are on the "cramped" road to life, that means that the "many" (the majority in Christendom who accept the doctrine of the trinity) are on the wrong road. The trinity is nowhere to be found in scripture unless one reads it into ambiguous verses.

    Please provide me with a direct statement in the Bible where God, or Jesus ever said that they were equal members of the same godhead.....or where the Holy Spirit ever is ever called God......just one will do.
     
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  17. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Is it? What was Jesus referring to? Wasn't it the physical Temple?
    The "body of Christ" is not his physical body......it is the foundations of his "body" (his elect) that form the Kingdom of God in heavenly Jerusalem.....his "bride", who are "bought from among mankind"....to serve as priests in the grand spiritual temple in heaven. (Revelation 20:6).....you are a little short-sighted in your reasoning there I believe....

    Curtis, you can believe whatever you wish, this is a never ending story with you......

    I have no desire to continue because "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

    Why bother?......I have said it all before, and your desperate appeal to scripture that you want to interpret your own way makes no difference at all to the end result. The truth is the truth, whether we believe it or not.....and that is fact.

    We will all know soon enough....
     
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  18. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you respond to me with this?
    I never mentioned the "trinity".
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    do you believe everything that the MSM tells you, without reservation?
    No offense, but ima go with the fascist firefighters that were there, and have no bias, tks
    "inside job"
    although of course i know as much as you do--which is absolutely nothing

    i am kinda swayed by binLaden refusing to take credit, even after he knew he would be taking the blame; that and the fact that no pilot newbie could have performed the required maneuvers
     
  20. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    The triune Godhead, is a plurality - THREE PERSONS who comprise the ONE God.

    The plurality of the ONE God is found in the first chapter of the Bible, where Genesis states that ELOHIM, (which is the plural name of God that translates literally as GODS), said, let US make man in OUR image.

    Elohim:

    H430 (Strong)

    אֱלֹהִים

    'ĕlôhı̂ym

    el-o-heem'

    Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

    Total KJV occurrences: 2601

    Note: Elohim did not say let ME make man in MY image.

    He said let US make man in OUR image, because Jesus, who made everything that was made, Colossians 1:16, was there with Him as co-creator per John 1:1, 10, 14.

    The trinity is also seen in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus said to baptize in the NAME, singular, of the THREE, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    The three share one name - Elohim.

    1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    Fortunately for trinity deniers, belief in the fact of the trinity is not a salvation requirement.
     
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