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Brother Jason

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An atheist friend posted this video on facebook, so I thought I'd share some of my main problems with it here. What do you think?

He attempts to argue against Young Earth Creationism by claiming that just because you can’t witness something occurring doesn’t mean you can’t have evidence that it occurred. Duh, no one’s claiming that you can’t have evidence something occurred. Obviously Young Earth Creationists believe there’s evidence a global flood occurred, and creation geologist, Andrew Snelling, wouldn’t have sued the Grand Canyon to be allowed to do his research if he believed you couldn’t have evidence of something happening in the past. This is just a stupid straw man argument.



He also says that it goes without saying that no one was around to observe the “creation myth”. No that doesn’t go without saying, we say that God observed his act of creation and the Bible records his eye-witness account. He’s just asserting his atheist bias, which is not an argument.



He claims that the only people who understand evolution and reject it do so for religious reasons. No one rejects all of evolution outright. Even Young Earth Creationists agree to some extent with evolutionists, as can be seen in the very article he’s responding to which says that natural selection is a part of the biblical world view. What we reject is the Neo-Darwinian Synthesis, and this certainly isn’t rejected for solely religious reasons. Highly respected scientists and mathematicians such as Stephen Jay Gould, Niles Eldgrege, Gordon Rattray Taylor, Lancelot Law Whyte, David Berlinski, Murray Eden, Marcel-Paul Schutzenberger, C.H. Waddington, Sir Fred Hoyle, among many others have rejected it for entirely scientific and mathematical reasons.



He claims that evolution isn’t a historical science! Do not the titles, On the Origin of Species and The Descent of Man imply otherwise? One of the most respected evolutionary biologists of the 20th century, Ernst Mayr, wrote, “Darwin introduced historicity into science. Evolutionary biology, in contrast with physics and chemistry, is a historical science - the evolutionist attempts to explain events and processes that have already taken place. Laws and experiments are inappropriate techniques for the explication of such events and processes. Instead one constructs a historical narrative, consisting of a tentative reconstruction of the particular scenario that led to the events one is trying to explain.”



He objects to Answers in Genesis using the word “design” even though that word is found in Richard Dawkins’ very own definition of biology! “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.”



This blew my mind, he actually claimed that evolutionary scientists NEVER use similarities between animals as evidence for evolution! What?! Evolutionists are always appealing to homology, whether it’s fossils to genetics. Homology is defined as, “the state of having the same or similar relation, relative position, or structure.” Here’s an evolutionary biologist, Robert Trivers, appealing to homology, “The chimpanzee and the human share about 99.5 per cent of their evolutionary history, yet most human thinkers regard the chimp as a malformed, irrelevant oddity while seeing themselves as stepping-stones to the Almighty. To an evolutionist this cannot be so. There exists no objective basis on which to elevate one species above another.” The fact that he said evolutionists don’t do that is stunningly stupid.



He thinks that Young Earth Creationists believe, “Every single living thing had a sudden, distinct origin less than a few thousand years ago.” I’m not sure what he means by “thing”, I can only assume he’s referring to species. That’s wrong. We believe that God created different kinds of animals that cannot breed with each other. Most kinds probably fit in the classification of family not species. Literature exists on this topic that he clearly hasn’t read so he has no idea what he’s talking about.
 

aspen

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I've never understood why this is a debate. The only reason young earth creationist are willing to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to support a literal Genesis account of creation is because they've misplaced their faith in literalism. Without literalism, God can't exist, according to this type of mindset.

For me, Jesus is the cornerstone of my faith, not literalism.

1. Evolution currently provides the best method of study the material world
2.. the Genesis account reads like mystic literature.
3. Young earth creationist ignore 1&2, which provides a stubborn witness for literalism, not Jesus.
 

Deborah_

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So now we know how scientists feel when they hear Christians talk authoritatively on subjects that they actually know very little about, and misrepresent or misunderstand the beliefs of their opponents.
 

pia

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I would love to see a couple of things being taken literally........" My sheep hears My voice" as well as, "No man will have any need to be taught by a neighbor, for The Holy spirit Himself will teach you all things" ( paraphrased a little ) there are more, but even these two would surely make a huge difference in His Body ?
 

pastor marty

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Ya;& in the last days there will be born a generation who have no/need of schoolin' because th' Holy Spirit will already have taught their hearts. Found somewhere in 'Old Test' & poorly paraphrased by me. Shalom
 

pastor marty

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So now we know how scientists feel when they hear Christians talk authoritatively on subjects that they actually know very little about, and misrepresent or misunderstand the beliefs of their opponents.
People who understand neither our LORD nor science R forever trying 2 sic the Christians on folks who think maybe God fliked the 1st. domino & the evolutionary snowball just rolled down that mountain.Don't curse Darwin, complain to Gravity & all those other things that can't exist 'cause some ignorant,illiterate shepard/profit wasn't ordered 2 add it to a message because the world not being flat was harder to believe than;"Hey,neighbors,GOD just told me 2 tell U.................." Thinkaboudit ! Shalom-marty
 
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pastor marty

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I've never understood why this is a debate. The only reason young earth creationist are willing to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to support a literal Genesis account of creation is because they've misplaced their faith in literalism. Without literalism, God can't exist, according to this type of mindset.

For me, Jesus is the cornerstone of my faith, not literalism.

1. Evolution currently provides the best method of study the material world
2.. the Genesis account reads like mystic literature.
3. Young earth creationist ignore 1&2, which provides a stubborn witness for literalism, not Jesus.
God bless U 4 usin' yer ,"there's no reason evolution can't be part o'creation",brain. Ya really think God wanted 2 wait around 4 all the minutae ? NO !! "Here's how I want it 2 develop,evolve,look like when it comes out of the oven,(testtube)" I'll B/back in a couple o'millinium,don't break nothin'...Luv God well??
 
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Wormwood

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Although I appreciate the tone of the individual in the video, I think he misrepresents his case continually. For instance, clearly the point about "education" refers to those education in things like geology, microbiology, etc. I don't think the article is claiming that poets should be considered scholars on issues related to origins.
His point about what we observe today can be a "fact" about the past is also poorly presented. Comparing the falling of a leaf off a tree or assuming gravity work when you let go of a book based on past observances is also a ridiculous example. No one has ever seen an minuscule speck explode an create a universe...or non-living materials form into living, functioning, reproducing cells. This is not simply a matter of, "clearly all the signs point to this fact and you just have to use basic inductive reasoning." It is a case of proposing things that have not only never been seen, but cannot even be caused by our own scientific manipulation.

Finally, some of the comments here about Genesis not being "literal" still miss the point. I don't know that I am a young earth or old earth creationist....but I do know that evolution as proposed by scientific naturalists is completely incompatible with Biblical theology. the Bible clearly teaches that death occurred as a result of the fall of man. It clearly teaches that our choices brought suffering and death into God's paradise. Whether you read these things as "literal" or somewhat figurative, they still clearly were believed to be based in the truth of our origin and the human predicament. To write off all of biblical anthropology because "Genesis isn't literal" is to display a great deal of theological naiveté. There is much more to the Genesis account than simply debating if the days were literal or not. Naturalistic evolution undercuts the entire biblical narrative in my opinion. Also, those who want to dismiss the Genesis account and merely a work of literature still need to account for its purpose in the Scriptures...if indeed they believe the Bible to be inspired. Personally, I think there is more to the Genesis account than simply to provide an ancient literary work that points to one creator in an antithetical light to the other creation stories by competing pagan religions of their day. Moreover, I think they need to express how they determine what is mere literature from historical narrative. What separates the Genesis narrative account from Matthew's? What clearly makes one ahistorical while the others is not? What indicators do you see that clearly points Genesis to being a fanciful work of ancient literature other than the fact that it does not mesh with modern scientific arguments about origins? It seems no one believed such things about Genesis prior to Darwin and his theories. It seems to me the new views on Genesis have more to do with modern claims in universities than some obvious literary indicators in the book itself. If not, please explain.
 

pastor marty

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Although I appreciate the tone of the individual in the video, I think he misrepresents his case continually. For instance, clearly the point about "education" refers to those education in things like geology, microbiology, etc. I don't think the article is claiming that poets should be considered scholars on issues related to origins.
His point about what we observe today can be a "fact" about the past is also poorly presented. Comparing the falling of a leaf off a tree or assuming gravity work when you let go of a book based on past observances is also a ridiculous example. No one has ever seen an minuscule speck explode an create a universe...or non-living materials form into living, functioning, reproducing cells. This is not simply a matter of, "clearly all the signs point to this fact and you just have to use basic inductive reasoning." It is a case of proposing things that have not only never been seen, but cannot even be caused by our own scientific manipulation.

Finally, some of the comments here about Genesis not being "literal" still miss the point. I don't know that I am a young earth or old earth creationist....but I do know that evolution as proposed by scientific naturalists is completely incompatible with Biblical theology. the Bible clearly teaches that death occurred as a result of the fall of man. It clearly teaches that our choices brought suffering and death into God's paradise. Whether you read these things as "literal" or somewhat figurative, they still clearly were believed to be based in the truth of our origin and the human predicament. To write off all of biblical anthropology because "Genesis isn't literal" is to display a great deal of theological naiveté. There is much more to the Genesis account than simply debating if the days were literal or not. Naturalistic evolution undercuts the entire biblical narrative in my opinion. Also, those who want to dismiss the Genesis account and merely a work of literature still need to account for its purpose in the Scriptures...if indeed they believe the Bible to be inspired. Personally, I think there is more to the Genesis account than simply to provide an ancient literary work that points to one creator in an antithetical light to the other creation stories by competing pagan religions of their day. Moreover, I think they need to express how they determine what is mere literature from historical narrative. What separates the Genesis narrative account from Matthew's? What clearly makes one ahistorical while the others is not? What indicators do you see that clearly points Genesis to being a fanciful work of ancient literature other than the fact that it does not mesh with modern scientific arguments about origins? It seems no one believed such things about Genesis prior to Darwin and his theories. It seems to me the new views on Genesis have more to do with modern claims in universities than some obvious literary indicators in the book itself. If not, please explain.
 

pastor marty

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So God can't have wished some stuff into being & let other stuff sorta grow,mutate,evolve.Cause U say so & know everything cause U read the 5th or 6th translation of messages 2 a bunch of flea bitten illiterate sheep eaters & that gives U authority 2 tell GOD what HE can&can't do.I suppose the whole 2 or more;pray&agree;HolyGhost shows up;makes it a 3some is totally beyond U. If it ain't carved on a rock;it ain't Gospel. Jesus never said the Earth ain't flat,sometimes ya'gotta trust th'Spirit..Awe,whats th' use? U Sadducees R worse'n athiests. My way or no way,Jose ! Don't confuse me w/facts;my minds made up!! Lets make sure millions who believe in science,vaccines 4 kids,blood transfusions & reality never come 2 know our LORD because people like U would rather prove just how illogical,set'n'our ways & foolish we can be & why would anyone in their right minds want 2 join w/a GOD who denys th'math&physics HE used 2 make this stooped place. If I was still evaluating doctoral dissertations ...fergitit,lets not go there....PAX Vobiscum pmb
 
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aspen

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God created an ordered universe governed by laws. working outside these laws seems out of character. It is much more powerful for God to work outside human laws (redeeming the outcasts like the sick, demon possessed, economic pariahs) than working outside the laws he put in place, which govern the universe.
 

pia

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U sd. more'n 1 sentence than th'posturing pontificator said'n a lecture. Gud'on'ya,kiddo !
Ahhh shucks... thanks, you are a rare gem dear Sir ( not for what you just said to me, but for your straight forward posts).
'Get your motor runnin, head out on the highway" Have a glorious day, and thank you so much for putting many a smile on my face in such a short time.......Pia :)
 

pia

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Ya;& in the last days there will be born a generation who have no/need of schoolin' because th' Holy Spirit will already have taught their hearts. Found somewhere in 'Old Test' & poorly paraphrased by me. Shalom
Hi, I have read that comment a couple of times now... will have to find it and get some context.
 

DPMartin

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well the OP is what it is, and is posted because there is a "market" for it, and the following postings prove that market of derogated respect for the Truth of God is here. listen to yourselves, you speak of this like its a flavor of soup you prefer on the shelf. you get to chose your own truth and make your own god in your own image of your own judgement of what you think a god, a creator ought to be like. and then exercise you entitlement to be happy to believe it.
 

Windmillcharge

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I've never understood why this is a debate. The only reason young earth creationist are willing to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to support a literal Genesis account of creation is because they've misplaced their faith in literalism. Without literalism, God can't exist, according to this type of mindset.

For me, Jesus is the cornerstone of my faith, not literalism.

1. Evolution currently provides the best method of study the material world
2.. the Genesis account reads like mystic literature.
3. Young earth creationist ignore 1&2, which provides a stubborn witness for literalism, not Jesus.

Actualy the scientific principals of Look, record and test provide the best way to study the material world.

point 2, Genesis reads like prose, an account of something that actualy happened and that is how the bible regards Genesis.

As for literalism do you believe Jesus is a door, just because he said I am the door, or a vine.
Most Christians recognise that the bible is composed of different forms of literature, prose, poetry, proverbs. That there are retellings of lies, murder, rape. Events that the bible does not approve of but reports accuratly. The method/way of telling of these and other dramatic events is the same as how Genesis reports creation.

The major difference between Creationist and other Christians who have other views of origins is that creations read out of scripture what it says while the others read into scripture what they want it to say.