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Creationism!

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Village Atheist, May 9, 2016.

  1. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    You are not going to like my reply. Because they are afraid and they need to soothe themselves with being right

    Not very satisfying is it? But it is true.

    Here's the good news, however; most Christians are not Creationists and most Creations are not as extreme in their thinking as your description.

    So, you are actually being as extreme about Creationists as the Creationist you are describing.

    Amen
     
  2. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    Village Atheist,

    I've come to this topic late. I hope you and others are still interested in pursuing the topic of Creationism.

    Starting with you as a "nice example" is way, way later than you ought to start. Start with the very first human beings. How did God create them? It wasn't by sexual intercourse. Later human beings came by sexual intercourse.

    God tells us what he did:

    (1) The creation of man (Adam): "Then the Lord God formed a man. He made him out of the dust of the ground. God breathed the breath of life into him. And the man became a living person" (Gen 2:7 NIRV).

    (2) This is how God created the first woman (Eve): "So the Lord God caused him to fall into a deep sleep. While the man was sleeping, the Lord God took out one of the man’s ribs. Then the Lord God closed the opening in the man’s side. Then the Lord God made a woman. He made her from the rib he had taken out of the man. And the Lord God brought her to the man" (Gen 2:21-22 NIRV).

    So God created the first man and woman from pre-existing material. How did there come to be other matter (dust)?

    The pre-existing material came from God creating out of nothing the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1) and the dry land appeared by God's word, "Let there be" (Gen 1:9-10).

    This site pursues the etymology of the word, bara, in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning, God created [bara] the heavens and the earth".

    It concludes:

    The word bara’ is used exclusively for the activity of God in which he fashions something new and pristine. The word could be used for creating something out of nothing, but that emphasis must come from the context and not from the meaning of this word (and the Bible does in many places teach that creation was originally out of nothing). Bara’ Includes the ideas of creating, shaping, forming, and transforming. Its emphasis lies in the fact that what is produced is new and fresh and good and perfect. It does not produce something imperfect or incomplete. While many English words could be used in the translations, “create” still serves very well because its connotations have been elevated by association with the Creator. We tend to use the word “create” to refer to a work of art, a masterpiece, something new and wonderful. For all the ordinary things, or inferior things, “make” serves very well.

    One of the main differences between creationists and atheistic evolutionists is that you make statements like this:

    God has already been there before science and has agreed with science a LONG time before the scientific descriptions came along:
    1 The heavens tell about the glory of God.
    The skies show that his hands created them.
    2 Day after day they speak about it.
    Night after night they make it known.
    3 But they don’t speak or use words.
    No sound is heard from them.
    4 Yet their voice goes out into the whole earth.
    Their words go out from one end of the world to the other.

    God has set up a tent in the heavens for the sun.
    5 The sun is like a groom leaving the room of his wedding night.
    The sun is like a great runner who takes delight in running a race.
    6 It rises at one end of the heavens.
    Then it moves across to the other end.
    Everything enjoys its warmth (Psalm 19:1-6 NIRV).
    You asked: "The thing I want to know is why Creationism is as it is". This is just a starter from me. There is no one view of creation that is included in Creationism. You will find people who take Gen 1-2 seriously (literally) as how God created the original heavens and earth - I'm one of those. Others are theistic evolutionists who believe God used macroevolution to create the heavens, earth and people. Gap Theory creationists believe there is a gap between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. Other creationists are young earth creationists or old earth creationists. I know a Christian who is a full-blown evolutionary promoter.

    My understanding is that Creationism is diverse and is the way it is because evolutionary science, carbon dating, paleontology(fossils) are interacting with biblical Christianity.

    Then add the major problem with all of us. We are sinful human beings whose ability to think and act consistently is thwarted by the original fall into sin that has infected the whole human race (see how it started in Genesis 3).

    God does not believe in atheists. He describes them as those who "suppress the truth by their wickedness" (Rom 1:18 NIV). Read Romans 1:18ff and see God's description of why there can never, ever be an atheist on this earth. There are human beings who describe themselves as atheist - like yourself - but God's view is radically different to yours.

    Sincerely,
    Oz
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  3. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that anything was created from nothing...While the book of Genesis states that in the beginning there was a void, it also states that God was/is there, and that it was through His Word ( thus not nothing ) all things were created.....
    In my experiences with Him, science and He are like hand and glove..... :)
     
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  4. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Evolution is a satanic lie. How anyone can wrap their head around that concept is beyond me. There's absolutely zero evidence to support that theory.
     
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  5. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more. Mind you learning about such a precious thing such as the gift of salvation from a school curriculum may not be the best way to do it.
    I have read quite a few things over the years in relation to science and God, and like you I do agree that the thesis of evolution does seem to have some bearing in our world, but I cannot agree with what is now termed 'macro evolution' in other words this idea that one kind of animal can spontaneously alter itself into an entirely different kind of animal.
    But the ability to adapt, as all living things undoubtedly can, I see as The Blessing God spoke over all that He had made, since when you study out that word 'blessing' it literally means ' the ability (power) to prosper' ( to make more, to grow wherever one is ), and God knowing that the fall would occur, had to have a way where all of this could basically take care of itself, once God had been 'ousted' from having fellowship here on earth, and men were left to their own devices.
    A whole lot of things the Lord has taught me, has had a huge impact on me, and a lot of it has had more to do with science than religion...I now see science merely as the evidence of how God did/do things, as it gets revealed to us. The sad fact is, that the beginning of science divided people into those who thought it explained a world without needing God, and those who didn't, and it is still largely so, although thankfully a lot of scientists these days are starting to see that there is just far too much 'fine tuning' as they call it, for it all to have just come about by trillions of separate 'accidents'.
    It is a fascinating study for sure....It does the brain good to once in a while get outside it's comfort zone... Thanks for your post :)
     
  6. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i've never quite understood this pov. Why couldn't God use evolution? What makes it satanic?
     
  7. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    It's a lie. Lies don't come from God. It's that simple.
     
  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    well c'mon, that's it? How do avoid being in the position of the RCC then, in essence excommunicating Copernicus? What if it is in fact not a lie, and that is just a widely held opinion? How do you know?
     
  9. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Physical evidence. There is none. The absence of transitional fossils. Evolution is a slow gradual physical change. Millions of fossils and not one depicting that slow gradual change. The fossil record should be littered with these things. The evolutionists say we evolved from lower life forms but have no evidence to back that claim.

    It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in God.

    k
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    so then that might simply mean that you are not persuaded by humans with tails, or fur, or remnants of Neanderthal genes etc, i could go on--but it does not mean that these are not indications of evolution imo.

    Also, evolving might be a natural function--as our family trees certainly seem to make all but proven, the evolution of isolated islands, etc--that adding "humans evolving from apes" or whatever just clouds
     
  11. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Show me physical proof of one species evolving into another.
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    show me physical proof that God exists first, lol

    i am not trying to prove anything, but imo it would not matter even if i had physical proof. No one could describe a Coywolf 100 years ago, there is your proof.
     
  13. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Ok, if crossbreeding is your definition of evolution, what did the fish mate with to get their lungs and legs? What did the first bird mate with to get it's wings?
     
  14. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Did you mean 'circular' rather than 'simple'?
     
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  15. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    No, I meant simple. It's a simple truth that God doesn't lie.

    Why would I want to say it's circular? Explain that please because I don't understand.
     
  16. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Oh sorry - I misunderstood your post
     
  17. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    you are employing circular reasoning to discredit evolution, perhaps.

    i guess the diff in micro and macro evolution might be aired here at some point; some people accept one and not the other.
     
  18. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Explain how that works.
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    lol dunno if you are even serious there or not
    ha, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    i didn't mean to imply that i knew anything, ok.

    just recently read about some bird whose beak has morphed in a very few generations...i forget the details though. Humans are still occasionally (as in likely hundreds of times a day) born with tails, or fur, etc. Some explanation for those should be stated imo.
     
  20. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Some are born with 2 heads, some with no head, some with no arms or legs, some with multiple arms and legs...

    These are birth defects, not evolution.

    k
     
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