Crucified With Christ

[soul man]

Galations 2:20,

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Did you know you are dead to God and alive to God at the same time. What is dead about you is the old man, what is alive about you is Christ in you. Isn't that a simple explanation of Galatians 2:20, the moment Jesus died on the cross you died. All in Adam dead as a doornail (pardon the expression), all a believer can do now is reckon it so, and live. How do you live at that point? by the Christ that is in you. His life as your life, you see you have never had a life of your own.

You had a sin life; what is sin life? We were created to live by the life of another, sin life is the life of another as your life, Satan if you will. His life, his nature in you, that is what Adam recieved, sin unto death-life. The life I (Adam) now live is the life of another. We have watched to many Hollywood movies to really understand what happened to Adam and Eve. They recieved something that caused them to come alive in spirit. They had no spirit life, they had soul life and lived according to God. It is this mind here that came from the sin nature that has caused all your trouble, it was not you, you were a partaker only and because of being a partaker you were held responsible. We have always had an affinity for the flesh and the downward motivation the sin life brought. That is carried over into your new life as a Christian.

No wonder Paul keeps telling the believer to renew their mind to the new man Christ who is in them now because of the cross and the new birth. I reiterate, that the therapist offices overflow with this mind that cannot see through their past to Christ in them now. Seems like a simple word, a simple message and it is, but the harsh reality is you must know, you must have knowledge for the renewing of the mind to see through your past to Christ who is your life now.

You nolonger have an old man, he was crucified with Christ, that is what died in Christ along with every sin ever committed before or after the cross. The new man is Christ in you, the twain become one as in the sin life.

 

[Episkopos]

Galations 2:20,

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Did you know you are dead to God and alive to God at the same time. What is dead about you is the old man, what is alive about you is Christ in you. Isn't that a simple explanation of Galatians 2:20, the moment Jesus died on the cross you died. All in Adam dead as a doornail (pardon the expression), all a believer can do now is reckon it so, and live. How do you live at that point? by the Christ that is in you. His life as your life, you see you have never had a life of your own.

You had a sin life; what is sin life? We were created to live by the life of another, sin life is the life of another as your life, Satan if you will. His life, his nature in you, that is what Adam recieved, sin unto death-life. The life I (Adam) now live is the life of another. We have watched to many Hollywood movies to really understand what happened to Adam and Eve. They recieved something that caused them to come alive in spirit. They had no spirit life, they had soul life and lived according to God. It is this mind here that came from the sin nature that has caused all your trouble, it was not you, you were a partaker only and because of being a partaker you were held responsible. We have always had an affinity for the flesh and the downward motivation the sin life brought. That is carried over into your new life as a Christian.

No wonder Paul keeps telling the believer to renew their mind to the new man Christ who is in them now because of the cross and the new birth. I reiterate, that the therapist offices overflow with this mind that cannot see through their past to Christ in them now. Seems like a simple word, a simple message and it is, but the harsh reality is you must know, you must have knowledge for the renewing of the mind to see through your past to Christ who is your life now.

You nolonger have an old man, he was crucified with Christ, that is what died in Christ along with every sin ever committed before or after the cross. The new man is Christ in you, the twain become one as in the sin life.

Soul Man, I have come to see your humility and goodness of heart, but nevertheless, there is a lot of error here. People claim the experience of Paul..without the experience of Paul. You can't just make a philosophy based on what another man experiences. Paul was testifying of HIS journey of faith. What he wasn't doing was creating a theological statement that people could lay claim to.

A person who is dead to sin...doesn't sin....at all. Any sin in one's life shows that he/she is NOT dead in Christ.

The new man is found In Christ...not in you. We must enter into...or put on...the new man AFTER we have received the Spirit through the indwelling deposit of Christ in us. We are never that new man. And we can go in and out of that proximity to God. We are a LIVING sacrifice...that can crawl off the cross if we are too attracted to things in this life.

So then Paul would also have gone in and out of that surrendered state. Paul had a REAL relationship with God...not a theological one. Paul had to learn God's ways...over time. Just as we do. We come near to God and move away...until we learn how to remain always in His presence.

But I fear that Luther influenced mankind too much with his human logic. He would scoff at a real life in God...instead preferring a theoretical and theological approach based on a religious status that he invented for modern use. And that IS popular.

So then the whole premise of the OP is based on an error.

 

[Nancy]

Soul Man, I have come to see your humility and goodness of heart, but nevertheless, there is a lot of error here. People claim the experience of Paul..without the experience of Paul. You can't just make a philosophy based on what another man experiences. Paul was testifying of HIS journey of faith. What he wasn't doing was creating a theological statement that people could lay claim to.

A person who is dead to sin...doesn't sin....at all. Any sin in one's life shows that he/she is NOT dead in Christ.

The new man is found In Christ...not in you. We must enter into...or put on...the new man AFTER we have received the Spirit through the indwelling deposit of Christ in us. We are never that new man. And we can go in and out of that proximity to God. We are a LIVING sacrifice...that can crawl off the cross if we are too attracted to things in this life.

So then Paul would also have gone in and out of that surrendered state. Paul had a REAL relationship with God...not a theological one. Paul had to learn God's ways...over time. Just as we do. We come near to God and move away...until we learn how to remain always in His presence.

But I fear that Luther influenced mankind too much with his human logic. He would scoff at a real life in God...instead preferring a theoretical and theological approach based on a religious status that he invented for modern use. And that IS popular.

So then the whole premise of the OP is based on an error.

True Epi,
We cannot claim another's experience in Christ. Just as we cannot claim what was directed to the Jews only. I think sometimes Christians see in The Word, something God did for a particular person and seem to think that they themselves can "claim" it too. My own thoughts are that we are never to "claim" anything at all. He blesses whom He will and, for His reasons. One of my sisters is still into that name it claim it stuff and it drives me crazy...so instead of allowing arguments with her, I just change the subject and pray for her...I don't think she has moved an inch in her growth since the early 1990's yet, I KNOW she loves the Lord, and she is so very caring and generous. She has what I call "sensationalismitis" lol.

 

[Not me]

Galations 2:20,

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Did you know you are dead to God and alive to God at the same time. What is dead about you is the old man, what is alive about you is Christ in you. Isn't that a simple explanation of Galatians 2:20, the moment Jesus died on the cross you died. All in Adam dead as a doornail (pardon the expression), all a believer can do now is reckon it so, and live. How do you live at that point? by the Christ that is in you. His life as your life, you see you have never had a life of your own.

You had a sin life; what is sin life? We were created to live by the life of another, sin life is the life of another as your life, Satan if you will. His life, his nature in you, that is what Adam recieved, sin unto death-life. The life I (Adam) now live is the life of another. We have watched to many Hollywood movies to really understand what happened to Adam and Eve. They recieved something that caused them to come alive in spirit. They had no spirit life, they had soul life and lived according to God. It is this mind here that came from the sin nature that has caused all your trouble, it was not you, you were a partaker only and because of being a partaker you were held responsible. We have always had an affinity for the flesh and the downward motivation the sin life brought. That is carried over into your new life as a Christian.

No wonder Paul keeps telling the believer to renew their mind to the new man Christ who is in them now because of the cross and the new birth. I reiterate, that the therapist offices overflow with this mind that cannot see through their past to Christ in them now. Seems like a simple word, a simple message and it is, but the harsh reality is you must know, you must have knowledge for the renewing of the mind to see through your past to Christ who is your life now.

You nolonger have an old man, he was crucified with Christ, that is what died in Christ along with every sin ever committed before or after the cross. The new man is Christ in you, the twain become one as in the sin life.

If you wouldn’t mind me saying so...It blesses my heart to see your heart continually being directed back to this truth of you being crucified with Christ. For as I’m sure you have surmised this is your Christ in you....For in this truth, is all the secrets of our salvation in Christ to be found. For this is the truth of truths, our deaths in Christ. For once this is seen, it than becomes, to whom servants you are, to whom you obey; Christ or self. One leading to life the other to death.

Your heart or should I say Christ in you will not let you go, for His heart is set on your completion and He will perfect that which concerns you. Since this truth has gotten your heart, give way to this Christ in you who is becoming more real in you each and every day.

For you know inwardly of a surety Christ is in you and is calling you into a deeper relationship, faith, knowledge of Himself. So to encourage you to Him, do I write.

Continue to search for Him, for there is always, as I’m sure you know inwardly, always a deeper Him can we know.

If it helps with the everyday decisions of life; pursue righteousness in all things, for He waits in righteousness ready to bless those willing to walk in righteousness, in all they do, say, think, dream, hope, desire. For He will always and only be found by the heart that is willing to do righteousness.

Be blessed as you continue to choose the good thing and learn of Him, Not me

 

[soul man]

Paul was testifying of HIS journey of faith. What he wasn't doing was creating a theological statement that people could lay claim to.

I can only see where Paul lived by the faith of another in this verse. What theological statement was paul making?

 

[soul man]

. Paul was testifying of HIS journey of faith

Paul said he lived by the faith of Jesus Christ, I'm not really seeing where he talks about his faith can you explain?

A person who is dead to sin...doesn't sin....at all. Any sin in one's life shows that he/she is NOT dead in Christ.

can you explain 1 John chapter 1 that says we do sin. Sinning shows no death, what about the cross that Paul preached and the death of every born again believer, with all due respect I dont get where you are coming from?

The new man is found In Christ...not in you. We must enter into...or put on...the new man AFTER we have received the Spirit through the indwelling deposit of Christ in us. We are never that new man. And we can go in and out of that proximity to God. We are a LIVING sacrifice...that can crawl off the cross if we are too attracted to things in this life.

I don't really know what to say. You say the mew man is in Christ but it is not in you? Am I reading you right, you are saying that lifestyle is determines everything with God. Such as the cross; if you live right the cross is yours if you dont then your out. Crawing off the cross, can you maybe point out a couple of scriptures for uncrucifying yourself? Or maybe unbirthing yourself?

 

[Episkopos]

I can only see where Paul lived by the faith of another in this verse. What theological statement was paul making?

Each person has to go to Christ. You can't live vicariously through Paul. If Paul describes a proximity to Christ he experienced that doesn't make it automatic for all his readers. It is religion that does this sort of thing.

What it should do is cause us to seek the Lord for what he experienced...IF that is God's will and we are able to make that jump by faith. But not everyone gets the things from God the same way or in the same time.

Jesus said that not everyone would be able to enter into the kingdom. To ignore the truth and make everything dogmatic is to do violence to the truth. When people say they are crucified with Christ...as a dogma...without the actual experience of being actually crucified...and TEACH this error...then they become enemies of the cross of Christ. These stop others from experiencing what Paul is describing....by saying..."you already have it dogmatically...don't seek God for it."

 

[Episkopos]

Paul said he lived by the faith of Jesus Christ, I'm not really seeing where he talks about his faith can you explain?

Again what Paul did and what we do are not the same. We are each unique on our own journey of faith...even if the best way is to walk in the faith OF Jesus Christ.

can you explain 1 John chapter 1 that says we do sin. Sinning shows no death, what about the cross that Paul preached and the death of every born again believer, with all due respect I dont get where you are coming from?

You are confused I'm afraid. You aren't reading the bible properly. ALL have sinned...but whoever sins does not know Christ...THAT is what John is saying. Read it again.

A believer is dead in Christ. That means our death is a location...not where Jesus is in us....but where we are in Jesus.

I find that evangelicals can no longer understand (after indoctrination) being in different places...as if they never moved or walked anywhere.

Jesus in you is not the same as you putting on Christ or moving to where He is.

Why would Paul say that we should put on Christ if that was as dogmatic as being dead IN Christ? (which it isn't)

So then the modern doctrines are fables like the Emperor's new clothes. In truth Most believers are only walking in their own power and righteousness AND CALLING THAT Christ.

I don't really know what to say. You say the mew man is in Christ but it is not in you? Am I reading you right, you are saying that lifestyle is determines everything with God. Such as the cross; if you live right the cross is yours if you dont then your out. Crawing off the cross, can you maybe point out a couple of scriptures for uncrucifying yourself? Or maybe unbirthing yourself?

You are reasoning with the carnal mind...like Nicodemus was. So read what Nicodemas said...and compare that to what you just said...same reasoning.

Look at all the verses about becoming reprobate or frustrating the grace of God. Also being cut off.

I'm afraid you are still at the beginning stage...and not even...because you have gone down the wrong path in understanding the process of God.

You are seeing everything from a dogmatic stance...and not a living experience. So you are NOT going to understand the biblical testimony. AND you have been indoctrinated into a make-believe way of explaining those experiences...without having to experience them yourself.

There is still time to forsake the teachings of men and seek the Lord for His ways to be revealed to you.

Blessings and peace to you

 

[Giuliano]

Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

We need to be crucified too. If we do that, we trust Christ to give us life -- and live in us.

 

[soul man]

Jesus said that not everyone would be able to enter into the kingdom. To ignore the truth and make everything dogmatic is to do violence to the truth. When people say they are crucified with Christ...as a dogma...without the actual experience of being actually crucified...

So are you saying to make the cross work it is up to the believer to make it work? I see where you are coming from, the problem is there is not scripture for your theology. To call the in Christ message of the cross dogmatic is absolutely true. Scripture puts the death of the believer in Christ over 150 times, that is very dogmatic and should be adhered to. You understand scripture, you know when it is written the believer needs to study and look at it and get understanding. When it is mentioned a few times God is making a strong statement. When mentioned as much as the cross and the in Christ completion message (the gospel) ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY TIMES, believers should not look at anything else until it is indelible fixed in them as their knowledge. That is a different wisdom Paul gives to those that will listen.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

can you explain 1 John chapter 1 that says we do sin. Sinning shows no death, what about the cross that Paul preached and the death of every born again believer, with all due respect I dont get where you are coming from?

If we abide in Him, we don't sin. He didn't just say and I will remain in you. He said remain in Me and I in you (paraphrasing there).

Paul ran a race of trust. That race could be defined as a learning to remain in trust, stand firm in trust, for longer periods of time without stumbling in it.

Everything works to get us to stumble in trust (stop abiding). We ourselves, the whole world, and the devil, all work to pull us away from abiding and to put our trust elsewhere. Its so easy to begin thinking our own hand has brought us blessings. Or to think if we work harder, then we will succeed. But it is God who creates wealth or puts holes in pockets.

I have seen it play out in my own life. When I worried and fussed, it got worse and worse for me. No matter what I tried or how hard I tried, I sank further into poverty. I tried by my own hand to provide for myself. But God was gracious and didn't allow me success in that state of unbelief.

It was only when I gave up on the thought that men create wealth/provision and learned to ask for what I needed, that I saw Him provide.

I still catch myself sometimes, worrying rather than trusting and asking. I still have skirmishes where I will have a bad week at my shop and I stop abiding for a few minutes or an hour or a day. But then I return to abiding and He comes through spectacularly.

I realize where I am. This is concerning temporal care (what I will eat and wear, how I will pay the rent, etc.) But if I won't stand firm in trust on what He has said about temporal things, how can He tell me about heavenly things?

So I'm running my race of trust and focusing on not stumbling. I'm not very advanced as some, but it's great joy and peace to not be torn in two directions at once every moment of my life. I sometimes lament over it taking me so many years before I would trust Him for my temporal provision, but I also thank Him that He blessed me by refusing to give me any success until I trusted. I was so mixed up that I insisted I trusted Him even while doing the opposite! I used to worry about everything, now I just pray and ask for what I need.

I think...learning to trust Him in what He has said and promised regarding temporal matters will be a blueprint of sorts for learning to trust Him for spiritual provision too...I have been talking to Him about my lack of love. I can clearly see it. I don't believe working harder to love is the answer. I think that would just be working on the outside of my cup. I think its as withh learning to trust and ask temporally. I have to see that my own hand and my own hard work don't provide for me spiritually either...that's where I am. Sorry for talking your ear off.

When I abide, I don't sin. When I stop abiding (remaining in trust) I sin.

 

[soul man]

If we abide in Him, we don't sin. He didn't just say and I will remain in you. He said remain in Me and I in you (paraphrasing there).

Thanks for commenting. Compared to all scripture we have that is a real stretch to say he won't remain in you, (my paraphrase) unless you do something to keep me. What do you do with all the scriptures? I'll never leave you nor forsake you" is really a statement people cannot get around. I have often wondered why Christians have such a hard time accepting their salvation? It is a bit of a mystery for the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Thanks for commenting. Compared to all scripture we have that is a real stretch to say he won't remain in you, (my paraphrase) unless you do something to keep me. What do you do with all the scriptures? I'll never leave you nor forsake you" is really a statement people cannot get around. I have often wondered why Christians have such a hard time accepting their salvation? is a bit of a mystery for the knowledge of good and evil.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say He wouldn't remain in us. I said He said: remain in Me and I in you. It's the remain in Me part I was speaking of.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I have been reading you for many months, soulman. I've taken an interest in you and have prayed.

There are always verses in tension to each other. They must be understood together for a complete understanding.

Yes, He will never leave or forsake us. You must understand it with the verses in tension to it, like the ones about being cut off or putting your hand to the plow and turning back.

It's so simple that it's hard, really. He asks one thing of us - trust/remain in trust/ abide in trust/ race of trust. Its by Gods grace, through trust, (by grace through faith.)

Israel was cut off because of a lack of trust. We are told the same could happen to us so we should be careful to see that our hearts don't become untrusting/unbelieving as theirs did.

It all centers on trust. But when He comes again, will He really find trust? I claimed to trust even while I worried over temporal provision. That made me a hypocrite, saying one thing but doing the opposite. I am not the judge, but it appears to me now that I was in danger of, after preaching trust to others, having been disqualified for not doing the very thing I preached to others to do.

Trust seems sometimes to me like it has become trusting only that you will live forever, but not trusting Him in all else He has said.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When does trust become so radical and complete that it moves mountains, closes the mouths of lions, brings back the dead, keeps men alive in an oven?

I'm not there in that radical and complete trust, don't get me wrong. I still stumble sometimes. But I don't look behind me at that. I look forward and run like crazy to trust more and more.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I sometimes think if you could encompass the entire bible in a painting, the painting would be only two words - trust Me.

It's what God strove for way back in the desert, that they would trust Him and not worry. It's still what He is striving for. For us to trust Him in simplicity.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Is it that trust sounds too simple to be true? Or is it that trust sounds like weakness to us? Like...no, I would rather trust in my own hopes and plans than give up all my care for whatever He might want for me?

 

[Episkopos]

So are you saying to make the cross work it is up to the believer to make it work? I see where you are coming from, the problem is there is not scripture for your theology. To call the in Christ message of the cross dogmatic is absolutely true. Scripture puts the death of the believer in Christ over 150 times, that is very dogmatic and should be adhered to. You understand scripture, you know when it is written the believer needs to study and look at it and get understanding. When it is mentioned a few times God is making a strong statement. When mentioned as much as the cross and the in Christ completion message (the gospel) ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY TIMES, believers should not look at anything else until it is indelible fixed in them as their knowledge. That is a different wisdom Paul gives to those that will listen.

You are indoctrinated by vain repetitions without understanding. We don't make the cross work...the actual power of the cross makes us dead. But FEW will go to God in that kind of full surrender.

 

[Not me]

@stunnedbygrace

It caused joy in my heart to read your words;

“the painting would only be two words; trust me”

For this is;

“the just shall live by faith”

This is, as I’m sure you know, what God is teaching you inwardly.... The blessing is, this truth can never be shaken from you, for this truth has been birthed in you, it has become part of you. Though you can always learn this truth, as you and all will, that continue to desire it, shall learn it in a deeper and deeper degree. The truth itself has been born in you. Be blessed!

Though at the present time you see one scripture as in “tension” with another. The joy in you will increase when you see there are no “tensions” in truth. Only human understanding not being able to comprehend the spiritual truths being put forth in scripture. Just the same as you know inwardly (to a degree) the truth of “trust me”, all the scriptures that at present seem to be in tension with other scriptures, once they too become birthed in you, will all the tension of not understanding come to an end...Though it is true no one has ever understood all completely. So long as we see dimly as through a mirror the “trust me” truth that has become part of you, will be your life lived by faith.

Be most blessed my sister in Christ as this trust me truth will always grow and become larger and larger in you,,,,only more of Christ for you....Not me

edit; my apologies soulman for highjacking your thread. Be most blessed as you pursue Him. Not me

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When you say "all the tension of not understanding", I don't understand what you mean, lol.

It is only through that very tension that I ever DO understand anything.

It's sort of like walking on a tightrope. In the balance, there's no tension. Both sides of the pole are still because you have it in the middle. If you move more to either side of the pole with your grip, your weight favors to one side or the other, and you have lost that calm balance and will fall.

The weight on one side is I will never leave or forsake you. The weight on the other side is to remain in trust (abide) or you will be cut off. You can't walk correctly without the tension and weight of both sides of the pole.