Dan. 9:24

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Trekson

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Many of the prophecy discussions center on the correct interpretation of Dan. 9:24-27.

Let’s take a look at verse 24. When this is fulfilled every single item listed must be accomplished. As you will see 70AD doesn’t cut it.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (Israel) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem),

to finish the transgression - This word (H6588) is speaking of the transgression at a “national level”. The only time this will be fulfilled is when Zech. 12:10 is - “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”To complete this Israel must repent at a national level and this has not been done!

and to make an end of sins, - Can anybody can just look around and say, “nope, no sinning going on around here”? No, you can’t and that won’t happen until the millennium

and to make reconciliation for iniquity, - Yes, this was accomplished on the cross.

and to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Has everlasting righteousness come to Israel as a nation? No, it has not and no the church has NOT replaced Israel and no, God’s not done w/ national Israel yet, as the scriptures abundantly point out.

and to seal up the vision and prophecy, - Has this been done? Most scholars date the Gospel of John and Revelations to have been written around 90-95AD even if one went twenty years earlier after 70AD then Revelatios would be a book of history not a book of prophecy and indeed prophecy that has not yet been fulfilled. If anyone thinks the things of Rev. have been fulfilled they are being blinded by Satan or their own ego! People to day still have visions and speak prophecy, not of a new revelation but a greater understanding of what is already known per Dan. 12:4, so no this has not been fulfilled.

and to anoint the most Holy. - If we believe this is speaking of Jesus than yes this has been fulfilled. There are six prophecies needing to be fulfilled and only two of them have been, so 70AD cannot be the fulfillment of this prophecy! The gap is the “time of the gentiles” and it is still going on, but have no fear the complete fulfillment may occur in our lifetimes!
 

Randy Kluth

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Surely you know there are two different opinions on this? The Church Fathers in the Early Church saw all 6 items as fulfilled in the earthly ministry of Christ, followed by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The end of Jewish transgression took place because Jesus put it to death in his atonement, and also put the Jewish People into exile. Prophecy was fulfilled with respect to *Christ's atonement* at the cross. That's when it was "finished." The anointing of the Most Holy was identified as Christ himself by the Church Fathers.
 

Keraz

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The seventy weeks were revealed to Daniel in the following words: “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.” (Daniel 9:24)

First, we need to understand that, although most of our English translations say seventy weeks, the Hebrew word translated weeks was shabuwa', H7620 in Strong’s. This word was used in the Old Testament for both a period of seven days and a period of seven years. Only the context could show whether days of years was meant. And in this case, the context clearly shows that the meaning could not even possibly been days. So it is not simply interpretation to take seventy weeks as meaning 490 years. This is a fully legitimate meaning of the Hebrew words used here.

Daniel 9:25 was told: Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

Here we have sixty-nine weeks, or 483 years, from the going forth of the command until Messiah the Prince. Some claim that there is historical evidence that the triumphal entry occurred exactly 483 years, to the day, after the signing of this order; we cannot be certain as to the accuracy of this claim. But history indeed confirms that it occurred at approximately that time.

But now the Divinely inspired account contains a break. We read: And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And until the end of the war, desolations are determined. Daniel 9:26

Two things were to happen after the sixty-two week second part of this account. And we know that both of them indeed happened exactly as explicitly stated. “Messiah” would “be cut off,” and “the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.” Messiah was indeed cut off, and the city and the sanctuary were indeed destroyed, in 70 - 135 AD.

From history we absolutely know that “the city and the sanctuary” were not destroyed in the same week (seven year period) that our Lord was crucified. Note; that both of these events are presented before the last week is even mentioned. So here we see an absolutely undeniable break in the scriptural account of the seventy weeks.

The last week is treated differently. It does not even say that this is the seventieth week. The only reason we know that it is the seventieth week is because all the rest of the weeks have already passed. So this week has to be the seventieth one.

We read: Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. Daniel 9:27

Now many imagine that this verse speaks of the cross. They want to interpret the word “for” in this verse as “in,” and claim that this was speaking of Jesus confirming God’s covenant with us “in” the seventieth week, and claim that Jesus was crucified at the middle of the seventieth week. But even if history were wrong by so many years, this interpretation does violence to the structure of the prophecy. For the last week is not even mentioned until after the two events that were to take place after the sixty-ninth week.
 

Mark51

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Many of the prophecy discussions center on the correct interpretation of Dan. 9:24-27.

Let’s take a look at verse 24. When this is fulfilled every single item listed must be accomplished. As you will see 70AD doesn’t cut it.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (Israel) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem),

to finish the transgression - This word (H6588) is speaking of the transgression at a “national level”. The only time this will be fulfilled is when Zech. 12:10 is - “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”To complete this Israel must repent at a national level and this has not been done!

and to make an end of sins, - Can anybody can just look around and say, “nope, no sinning going on around here”? No, you can’t and that won’t happen until the millennium

and to make reconciliation for iniquity, - Yes, this was accomplished on the cross.

and to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Has everlasting righteousness come to Israel as a nation? No, it has not and no the church has NOT replaced Israel and no, God’s not done w/ national Israel yet, as the scriptures abundantly point out.

and to seal up the vision and prophecy, - Has this been done? Most scholars date the Gospel of John and Revelations to have been written around 90-95AD even if one went twenty years earlier after 70AD then Revelatios would be a book of history not a book of prophecy and indeed prophecy that has not yet been fulfilled. If anyone thinks the things of Rev. have been fulfilled they are being blinded by Satan or their own ego! People to day still have visions and speak prophecy, not of a new revelation but a greater understanding of what is already known per Dan. 12:4, so no this has not been fulfilled.

and to anoint the most Holy. - If we believe this is speaking of Jesus than yes this has been fulfilled. There are six prophecies needing to be fulfilled and only two of them have been, so 70AD cannot be the fulfillment of this prophecy! The gap is the “time of the gentiles” and it is still going on, but have no fear the complete fulfillment may occur in our lifetimes!


The prophecy at Daniel 9:24-27 points to the appearance of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) at the start of the 70th “week” of years (Daniel 9:25) and his sacrificial death in the middle or “at the half” of the final week, thereby ending the validity of the sacrifices and gift offerings under the Law covenant. Compare Hebrews 9:9-14; 10:1-10.
 

Keraz

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The prophecy at Daniel 9:24-27 points to the appearance of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) at the start of the 70th “week” of years (Daniel 9:25) and his sacrificial death in the middle or “at the half” of the final week, thereby ending the validity of the sacrifices and gift offerings under the Law covenant. Compare Hebrews 9:9-14; 10:1-10.
You are not correct.
Daniel 9:26 plainly says: After the 62 have passed, the Anointed Prince will be removed......
It is at the end of the 62 + 7 = 69 'weeks', that Jesus was Crucified.

The preterist idea of the Seventieth 'week' being over; is wrong and proved wrong by the second half of that 'week' being mentioned many times in Revelation, as the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.
The first half, 3 1/2 years, will be a time of peace as the treaty holds.
 
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Keraz

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Daniel 9:24 Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city – to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, vision and prophecy ratified and the Most Holy place anointed.

Daniel 9:25-27 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Anointed One, the ruler comes – there will be seven sevens and sixty two sevens. It will be rebuilt with streets and drains, but in troubled times. After the 62 sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come, will destroy the city and sanctuary. The end will come like a flood. War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with the many for one ‘seven’. In the middle of the seven, he will put an end to the sacrifice and offering. In the Temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out upon him.
Reference REB, NIV, KJV.


Verse 24 - The Angel Gabriel’s message for the end of this age:

1/To complete and finalize the transgressions of the wicked peoples.[Time of the Gentiles]

2/ To make an end to disobedience against God. [Punishment of His enemies]

3/ To make reconciliation for iniquity. [Forgiveness for His people]

4/ To usher in the age of Righteousness. [The Christians– ‘a light to the nations’]

5/ To fulfil prophesy. [The promises to the Patriarchs and to Israel]

6/ To sanctify the Temple. [The Third Temple, built by the people of New Israel]


Verse 25: 70 times 7 = 490 years. The first 7 ‘weeks’ = 49 years, starts from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem in the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes. This was in 445BC. Jerusalem’s walls, streets, etc were built ‘even in troublous times’, in approx. 48/49 years.

Verse 26 Then another 62 ‘weeks’ = 434 years, plus the 49, makes a total of 483 prophetic years until ‘Messiah, the Prince, is cut off’.

There shall be nothing for Him’, means that at that time He did not receive the Millennium Kingdom. ‘The people of the ruler to come, will destroy Jerusalem, including the Temple’, refers to the Roman destruction in 69/70AD. This gives us the clue to the origin of the Anti Christ, who will lead a restored Roman Empire.

Then, there has been a gap of nearly 2000 years, till the present day.

The end period; the 70th of the 7 ‘weeks’ = 7 years will be made up of 2 periods of 1260 days each. It will be the closing time of this age, ‘the end shall be with a flood’. 2 Thessalonians 2:8 Flood is better translated as – overflowing, a very dramatic time.

Verse 27 The Anti Christ will make a 7 year treaty with the ‘many. That is, the holy people of God: every born again Christian, living in their own Land. There will be a faithful remnant who will oppose this agreement, so this treaty is made with many, but not all of His people, Israel. Daniel 11:32, Isaiah 28:15. The Anti Christ will break this after 1260 days, which will commence the Great Tribulation. He sets up his own image in the Temple, then after the final 1260 days, he will meet his end. Daniel 11:45, Revelation 19:20.
 

Bobby Jo

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... silly people, including Walvoord who ignored his own Scholars. Perhaps we should start by OBEYING the angels instructions in 12:4 & 9; then OBEY the LITERAL TEXT; and then figure out the fulfillment.

Or ignore what the Bible tells us, and just pull doctrines out of our dark recesses.

Silly people ...
 

Randy Kluth

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Many of the prophecy discussions center on the correct interpretation of Dan. 9:24-27.

Let’s take a look at verse 24. When this is fulfilled every single item listed must be accomplished. As you will see 70AD doesn’t cut it.

Actually it does, depending on how you interpret the different phrases. There's the historical interpretation and the futurist interpretation. The Church Fathers largely took the historical, as did, I think, the majority of Christian scholars in history. There was a definite relationship between Daniel's 70 Weeks and the Olivet Discourse of Jesus. Both had to do with Jesus' earthly life and ministry, as well as the judgment of God upon Israel following, in that very generation.

This is easily confused with Preterism, but it's not. It's the historical interpretation. However, the Olivet Discourse, though focused upon the events of 70 AD, was not finished at that time. The great tribulation of the Jewish People, which would last throughout the entire age, only began at that time. It would culminate in the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (Israel) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem),

to finish the transgression - This word (H6588) is speaking of the transgression at a “national level”. The only time this will be fulfilled is when Zech. 12:10 is - “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”To complete this Israel must repent at a national level and this has not been done!

Jewish sins came to complete maturity in the crucifixion of Jesus. That's why Jesus' atonement covers every sin, because sin was at its worst in Israel at that time. This has nothing to do with Israel's repentance at their final national salvation.

and to make an end of sins, - Can anybody can just look around and say, “nope, no sinning going on around here”? No, you can’t and that won’t happen until the millennium

Jesus judged Israel's sins for all time on the cross. And with it, all human sin was rejected by God. If the chosen nation had been rejected, then pagan nations were equally rejected. Sins were legally disposed of at the cross--all that are not covered by the atonement of Jesus.

and to make reconciliation for iniquity, - Yes, this was accomplished on the cross.

Here the timeframe is clearly placed *at the cross!*

and to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Has everlasting righteousness come to Israel as a nation? No, it has not and no the church has NOT replaced Israel and no, God’s not done w/ national Israel yet, as the scriptures abundantly point out.

It would make no sense to have just mentioned Christ's atonement at the cross and then leap far off into the future to talk about prophetic events later. Jesus' atonement for sin brought in a righteousness for sinful mankind, if they would just accept this atonement. Jesus' righteousness can be our righteousness for all eternity. Jesus introduced that righteousness at his resurrection.

and to seal up the vision and prophecy, - Has this been done? Most scholars date the Gospel of John and Revelations to have been written around 90-95AD even if one went twenty years earlier after 70AD then Revelatios would be a book of history not a book of prophecy and indeed prophecy that has not yet been fulfilled. If anyone thinks the things of Rev. have been fulfilled they are being blinded by Satan or their own ego! People to day still have visions and speak prophecy, not of a new revelation but a greater understanding of what is already known per Dan. 12:4, so no this has not been fulfilled.

Completing prophecy has to do with the stated context--the atonement of Jesus. Jesus' death and resurrection was a fulfillment of prophecy. On the cross Jesus said, "It is finished," referring to the completion of biblical prophecy with respect to his atonement.

and to anoint the most Holy. - If we believe this is speaking of Jesus than yes this has been fulfilled. There are six prophecies needing to be fulfilled and only two of them have been, so 70AD cannot be the fulfillment of this prophecy! The gap is the “time of the gentiles” and it is still going on, but have no fear the complete fulfillment may occur in our lifetimes!

The entire context is about the anointing of Jesus' ministry to bring about our atonement and our everlasting righteousness. At the same time sin came to its fulness among God's People, atonement was provided for all sin. This completes the prophecy that was promised regarding our salvation.
 

Keraz

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Actually it does, depending on how you interpret the different phrases. There's the historical interpretation and the futurist interpretation. The Church Fathers largely took the historical, as did, I think, the majority of Christian scholars in history. There was a definite relationship between Daniel's 70 Weeks and the Olivet Discourse of Jesus. Both had to do with Jesus' earthly life and ministry, as well as the judgment of God upon Israel following, in that very generation.
That all of these beliefs are error, is very evident;
The Olivet Discourse bears no relation to the prophesies of Daniel 9, or of Revelation from Rev 7 to the end. It pertains to the period leading up to and includes the soon to happen; Sixth Seal Lords Day of wrath.

The ECF's and most scholars today, are seemingly unable to view Bible prophecy as future. That is how God wants it. Isaiah 42:18-20

Thinking that the generation that Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:34 was the people alive when He spoke it, is a very plain mistake, as 70 AD is 40 years; another generation later. Even those alive then, did not see it all.
 

Randy Kluth

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That all of these beliefs are error, is very evident;
The Olivet Discourse bears no relation to the prophesies of Daniel 9, or of Revelation from Rev 7 to the end. It pertains to the period leading up to and includes the soon to happen; Sixth Seal Lords Day of wrath.

The ECF's and most scholars today, are seemingly unable to view Bible prophecy as future. That is how God wants it. Isaiah 42:18-20

Thinking that the generation that Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:34 was the people alive when He spoke it, is a very plain mistake, as 70 AD is 40 years; another generation later. Even those alive then, did not see it all.

"All" refers to "all the things with respect to the fall of Jerusalem." The generation of Jesus, ie including those still alive 40 years later, and those guilty of killing Jesus, would see all the things Jesus predicted would happen, namely the complete destruction of the temple.

Historical interpretations, such as seeing the 70 Weeks prophecy and the Olivet Discourse as historically fulfilled, does not mean that *all* future prophecies are rejected. Am I rejecting future prophecies completely when I believe Jesus fulfilled prophecy on the cross?

It isn't as though the Church Fathers and a multitude of scholars are "unable to see" things your way--they just hold to a different opinion. You can't see their way either, apparently?
 

Keraz

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All" refers to "all the things with respect to the fall of Jerusalem." The generation of Jesus, ie including those still alive 40 years later, and those guilty of killing Jesus, would see all the things Jesus predicted would happen, namely the complete destruction of the temple.
I would contend that very few who were alive and guilty of killing Jesus in 30 AD, lived to see the Temple destroyed in 70 AD, and none; the final dispersion of the Jews in 135 AD.
That you are wrong in your interpretation of 'all', in Matthew 24:34, is proved by verse 23, where Jesus prophesies the re-establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, which happened in May 1948.

I do not see what the ECF's wrote or what modern scholars teach, as correct because they don't show the fulfillment of prophecy and God's Plans for His people, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.
 

Randy Kluth

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I would contend that very few who were alive and guilty of killing Jesus in 30 AD, lived to see the Temple destroyed in 70 AD, and none; the final dispersion of the Jews in 135 AD.
That you are wrong in your interpretation of 'all', in Matthew 24:34, is proved by verse 23, where Jesus prophesies the re-establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, which happened in May 1948.

I do not see what the ECF's wrote or what modern scholars teach, as correct because they don't show the fulfillment of prophecy and God's Plans for His people, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.

We don't agree that Jesus predicted the reestablishment of the Jewish State in the Olivet Discourse. He predicted, by the "leafing of the fig tree" the coming to fruition of Israel's judgment. They had come to the place of their own Messianic salvation, and completely rejected it (except for the very few who later made up the initial Church). Rejecting this salvation, the nation was a "fig tree" that failed to produce "fruit." As such, the "tree" of Israel withered by command of Jesus, who predicted this series of events to come "in this generation."

The fact it was very late in Jesus' generation does not preclude it being Jesus' generation simply because most had passed. The point is, the culture created in Jesus' time was still ongoing late in his generation, and this indicated God was being patient, so that none would be judged before being given an opportunity by the Gospel to repent.

And so, we disagree. Nothing new. ;)
 

Keraz

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We don't agree that Jesus predicted the reestablishment of the Jewish State in the Olivet Discourse. He predicted, by the "leafing of the fig tree" the coming to fruition of Israel's judgment. They had come to the place of their own Messianic salvation, and completely rejected it (except for the very few who later made up the initial Church). Rejecting this salvation, the nation was a "fig tree" that failed to produce "fruit." As such, the "tree" of Israel withered by command of Jesus, who predicted this series of events to come "in this generation."

The fact it was very late in Jesus' generation does not preclude it being Jesus' generation simply because most had passed. The point is, the culture created in Jesus' time was still ongoing late in his generation, and this indicated God was being patient, so that none would be judged before being given an opportunity by the Gospel to repent.

And so, we disagree. Nothing new. ;)
The context of Matthew 24:27-35 is all about the end times.
The budding of the fig tree, verse 32 cannot jump back to 1st century times. That verse says; then we shall know that summer is near.
Does the coming of summer mean destruction? No, it means a time of warmth and regeneration. Which the House of Judah has experienced for the last 72 years.

Amazing things are soon to happen! Why shouldn't you know all about them?
 

Randy Kluth

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The context of Matthew 24:27-35 is all about the end times.
The budding of the fig tree, verse 32 cannot jump back to 1st century times. That verse says; then we shall know that summer is near.
Does the coming of summer mean destruction? No, it means a time of warmth and regeneration. Which the House of Judah has experienced for the last 72 years.

Amazing things are soon to happen! Why shouldn't you know all about them?

Matt 24.26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

I do believe Jesus is juxtaposing 2 very different times to explain what Jesus' coming and revelation was to mean to his disciples. It was a singular value drawn from 2 very different scenarios, 1 dealing with Jesus' 2nd Advent, and the other dealing with the events of 70 AD.

Jesus' coming and revelation was not intended to deal with either event in this context, but rather, are expressed as values both current and future. We are *always* to be spiritually prepared for God's coming Kingdom, because it is not strictly a time matter. Rather, it is a *preparation* matter. We are *always* to walk in the Spirit, and not just prior to the actual event in which Christ comes back. We can prepare for that future event *today!*

So let's look, specifically, at what Jesus said in this respect.

1) Jesus said his Coming will be sudden like lightning, like a sudden judgment. It will strike almost without warning, particularly for those who are not prepared. Jesus was preparing his own disciples so that they would not be taken unexpectedly.

This judgment would take place at the 2nd Coming in a great war to deliver Israel from the nations. But it would also take place in Jesus' own generation, in 70 AD. Jesus was warning both Israel and the world that nations could be judged by God at any time. That's what Jesus' Coming and Revelation means--not just eschatological judgment, but imminent judgment for those nations, like Israel, who are wicked and thus unprepared.

2) The carcass and the vultures refer, therefore, to divine judgment, whether to Israel in Jesus' generation or to all nations who likewise rebel against Christ. Specifically, Jesus was focusing in on his own generation and on his own nation, Israel. They were about to be judged, and Jesus was warning them a last time. That's what his Coming and Revelation was bringing.

3) Jesus then said that "after this distress" the eschatological judgment upon all nations, to deliver Israel, would take place. It would, similarly, bring judgment to Israel, as well. It would be a deliverance of Jesus' disciples, and not a deliverance of wicked Jews. It will bring about the salvation of Israel, as well as the judgment of those who have refused to repent.

The "distress" Jesus spoke of is the Jewish Diaspora of the NT age, which only began in 70 AD. It is after this particular distress that Jesus would return in judgment to destroy the nations and to save Israel. But it would not be salvation for wicked Jews.

4) The "coming of summer" is referred to as the time of Israel's visitation, which was at that time, when their Messiah 1st came to see them. The nation had come to maturity, numbers-wise and in terms of the history of being under the Law. Now was the time to produce fruit, but instead, they were barren of fruit, and only produced briars and weeds.

This prophecy, therefore, had nothing to do with the rebirth of Israel in 1948. Rather, these were the things Jesus spoke of with respect to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, referring back to Dan 9.26-27. The Church Fathers certainly saw it as such. It was the end of Israel's fallen religion, to be replaced with eternal redemption. It would also be the beginning of Israel's great Diaspora.

None of this is absurd, but is firmly entrenched in historical interpretation of this Discourse. Making this mostly about the future and "futurism" is more a product of modern obsession with prophetic prognostication than anything else, in my view!
 

Keraz

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None of this is absurd, but is firmly entrenched in historical interpretation of this Discourse. Making this mostly about the future and "futurism" is more a product of modern obsession with prophetic prognostication than anything else, in my view!
Absurd? You said it!
Historical interpretation? There are many and varied opinions of the OD. Take your pick, use the one that suits your beliefs.
Modern obsession? That is because we are the people who will see it all.

Show me anywhere that I have prognosticated [foretold the future] of an event.
My task is to promote what the Prophets said will happen. They wrote what God told them to. Your argument is with God. And your denials are with the other spirit.
 
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Earburner

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The seventy weeks were revealed to Daniel in the following words: “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.” (Daniel 9:24)

First, we need to understand that, although most of our English translations say seventy weeks, the Hebrew word translated weeks was shabuwa', H7620 in Strong’s. This word was used in the Old Testament for both a period of seven days and a period of seven years. Only the context could show whether days of years was meant. And in this case, the context clearly shows that the meaning could not even possibly been days. So it is not simply interpretation to take seventy weeks as meaning 490 years. This is a fully legitimate meaning of the Hebrew words used here.

Daniel 9:25 was told: Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

Here we have sixty-nine weeks, or 483 years, from the going forth of the command until Messiah the Prince. Some claim that there is historical evidence that the triumphal entry occurred exactly 483 years, to the day, after the signing of this order; we cannot be certain as to the accuracy of this claim. But history indeed confirms that it occurred at approximately that time.

But now the Divinely inspired account contains a break. We read: And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And until the end of the war, desolations are determined. Daniel 9:26

Two things were to happen after the sixty-two week second part of this account. And we know that both of them indeed happened exactly as explicitly stated. “Messiah” would “be cut off,” and “the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.” Messiah was indeed cut off, and the city and the sanctuary were indeed destroyed, in 70 - 135 AD.

From history we absolutely know that “the city and the sanctuary” were not destroyed in the same week (seven year period) that our Lord was crucified. Note; that both of these events are presented before the last week is even mentioned. So here we see an absolutely undeniable break in the scriptural account of the seventy weeks.

The last week is treated differently. It does not even say that this is the seventieth week. The only reason we know that it is the seventieth week is because all the rest of the weeks have already passed. So this week has to be the seventieth one.

We read: Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. Daniel 9:27

Now many imagine that this verse speaks of the cross. They want to interpret the word “for” in this verse as “in,” and claim that this was speaking of Jesus confirming God’s covenant with us “in” the seventieth week, and claim that Jesus was crucified at the middle of the seventieth week. But even if history were wrong by so many years, this interpretation does violence to the structure of the prophecy. For the last week is not even mentioned until after the two events that were to take place after the sixty-ninth week.
And so, as you did reveal, you DO KNOW the truth: "Now many imagine that this verse speaks of the cross. They want to interpret the word “for” in this verse as “in,” and claim that this was speaking of Jesus confirming God’s covenant with us “in” the seventieth week, and claim that Jesus was crucified at the middle of the seventieth week."
But now, you would much rather swallow the lies of the scholarly religious of "Church-ianity" and their wild fabrications.

Please tell us all, of what covenant is being prophesied of, that shall be confirmed by someone other than Jesus. But, before you do, I hope that you realize that when Jesus spoke of "the AoD" to come, he was speaking about Himself, during His first appearance.
 

Randy Kluth

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Absurd? You said it!
Historical interpretation? There are many and varied opinions of the OD. Take your pick, use the one that suits your beliefs.
Modern obsession? That is because we are the people who will see it all.

Show me anywhere that I have prognosticated [foretold the future] of an event.
My task is to promote what the Prophets said will happen. They wrote what God told them to. Your argument is with God. And your denials are with the other spirit.

I'd say you have a personality issue. You are in fact obsessed with solar flares and things that put out the electrical grids. The fact that personally bothers you, that others disagree, is a personality issue. It isn't Christian. We are supposed to be about sharing God's love--not threatening people with destruction if they don't listen to you. Your spirit is toxic, brother.
 

Keraz

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And so, as you did reveal, you DO KNOW the truth: "Now many imagine that this verse speaks of the cross. They want to interpret the word “for” in this verse as “in,” and claim that this was speaking of Jesus confirming God’s covenant with us “in” the seventieth week, and claim that Jesus was crucified at the middle of the seventieth week."
But now, you would much rather swallow the lies of the scholarly religious of "Church-ianity" and their wild fabrications.

Please tell us all, of what covenant is being prophesied of, that shall be confirmed by someone other than Jesus. But, before you do, I hope that you realize that when Jesus spoke of "the AoD" to come, he was speaking about Himself, during His first appearance.
I promote and stand by the Biblical truth. It is Christian to warn my brothers in Christ about what must soon happen.

It is adding to scripture to make: Daniel 9:26 After 69 'weeks' the Anointed one will be removed..... mean: after another 3 1/2 years....

The 7 year agreement mentioned on Daniel 9:27, is a treaty of peace signed by the Leader of the One World Govt and the Leader of the new nation in all of the holy land. The OWG leader will do this because he sees how the people of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, are saved and protected by the Lord when they are attacked by the army of Gog/Magog.
 

Randy Kluth

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I promote and stand by the Biblical truth. It is Christian to warn my brothers in Christ about what must soon happen.

It is adding to scripture to make: Daniel 9:26 After 69 'weeks' the Anointed one will be removed..... mean: after another 3 1/2 years....

The 7 year agreement mentioned on Daniel 9:27, is a treaty of peace signed by the Leader of the One World Govt and the Leader of the new nation in all of the holy land. The OWG leader will do this because he sees how the people of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, are saved and protected by the Lord when they are attacked by the army of Gog/Magog.

You're right that the Leader (Messiah) was to make a peace treaty (covenant of national salvation), but not with the new nation in the holy land, but with the old nation in the time of Jesus. He brought his Gospel of the Kingdom to Israel, and was cut off for their sins in order to provide an atonement for those sins.

This futuristic scenario of an Antichrist making a 7 year covenant does not fit with the prophecy, which was calling for the 1st coming of Jesus to complete the period of time necessary to make atonement for Israel's sins, which would ultimately lead to the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.
 

Keraz

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This futuristic scenario of an Antichrist making a 7 year covenant does not fit with the prophecy, which was calling for the 1st coming of Jesus to complete the period of time necessary to make atonement for Israel's sins, which would ultimately lead to the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.
7 years means 40 years?
Sorry, but you are confused and your determination to make prophecies fit into past history, is a serious mistake, that leaves you in the dark about future events.