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Day of the Lord

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by CoreIssue, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    A long time ago I noticed people had no idea the day the Lord meant. So I created this to explain

    Day of the Lord
     
  2. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    On That Day; A one 24 hour day of the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 9:14, Zechariah 3:9, Revelation 18:8

    2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 It is just; that the Lord should balance the account by sending judgement to those who afflict you, to give those who love and serve Him relief, when Jesus comes to punish the ungodly, with His mighty host in blazing fire. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, but on that great Day His glory will be revealed to all true believers. Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 18:7-15

    This passage of Scripture is not describing the Glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign. It is an event before then –‘ when He comes in blazing fire and reveals His glory among His own’. It does not fit how He destroys the armies that are attacking Jerusalem at His Return, then how the whole world will see Him.

    2 Peter 3:7& 10 The Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly. The heavens will disappear with a roar and flaming fire will bring all the earth to judgement. Malachi 4:1

    Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we deliberately persist in sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains only the terrifying expectation of a fierce fire which will consume God’s enemies. Zephaniah 1:14-18

    Psalms 110:5-6 The Lord at Your right hand – He crushes kings on the Day of His wrath. In majesty He judges the nations, causing destruction throughout the world. Ps.97:2

    Revelation 14:14-20 On a white cloud, I saw a figure like a man, wearing a gold crown and holding a sharp sickle. Put in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come to harvest the earth. Then the angel that has authority over fire, called to Him - ‘Swing Your sickle now, for the earth’s grapes are ripe and ready for harvest. So the grapes were gathered and thrown into the great winepress of the Lord’s wrath. The blood flowed from it for 200 miles. Isaiah 63:1-6, Zephaniah 1:17

    Jeremiah 51:5-6 Israel and Judah are not left widowed by their God, by the Lord. But their Land is full of guilt, condemned by the Holy One of Israel. Flee out of Babylon, [Babylon: a metaphor for any godless nation] each person for himself or you will perish for her sins. For now comes the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, He is paying her full recompense. Revelation 18:4-8

    Isaiah 17:1-10 Damascus will cease to be a city, just a heap of ruins forever desolate. On that Day, Jacobs strength will fade away, as when a reaper gathers the grain or as an olive tree is stripped at harvest and left with just a few berries. On that Day all will look to their Maker, all idols and the works of their hands are as rubbish. On that Day, your cities will be deserted and abandoned, because you have forgotten the Lord, your strength and protector. Jeremiah 9:12-13, Isaiah 6:11-12

    Isaiah 17:12-14 Listen! It is the thunder of vast forces, like the roaring of mighty waters. Nations flee, driven before the storm like thistledown. At evening, all is terror, by morning all is gone. Such is the fate of those who conspire to attack us. Psalms 83, Isaiah 66:15-16 Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.


    These Bible verses describe the next prophesied event – how God sends His right hand man, Jesus, to ‘ harvest the world of His enemies, those who conspire to attack His people’ This is also the Sixth Seal judgement, reiterated and described in over 100 Bible prophecies. This worldwide judgement of fire accurately fits how the earth would be affected by a unprecedented Coronal Mass Ejection. But as Isaiah and many other prophets say, His righteous people will be protected.
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    You deliberately omitted the verses in the rapture and the MK.
     
  4. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Just a fewthoughts on your post: first..you say at one point: "Day is not limited to a 24 hour period".
    I find that curious, coming from someone who argues tooth and nail that we must take everything in scripture literally, and therefore the 1000 years has to be 1000 years. Well....by your own admission...why? You've just said day doesn't equal 24 hours. That messes with time structures a little, doesn't it?

    Secondly...you say that the term "day of the lord" in Greek is "hwhy ewy", but I believe it's "yom yhwh" יוֹם יְהוָֹה.
    So...I'm not too sure about all of that or how you landed there...am sure you have a reason, I just can't noodle it out myself...

    Also, while your careful plotting out of the perfect/imperfect uses of the the languages was well done and certainly interesting and informative, you just sort of leaped to the assumption that the time period in question was the Great Tribulation, and the person being talked of was the AC. The passage doesn't say this, it's an assumption on your part. Perhaps you could take some of the care and time you spend on the language study and bend it to breaking down why you think it's talking about the GT?

    As for your final conclusions about DOTL, I would agree with some, but not with others. I find generally, in the OT, the term is used in a two-fold manner. It can be used in a "The Last Day" way, but we also see it being used frequently as an ongoing judgement motif. In each case, the “day of the Lord” indicates a time when the presence of the Lord brings judgment and/or deliverance and blessing, depending on the circumstances. In other words, it's not always a bad thing. Sometimes the judgement is upon Israel for her disobedience, but at times the 'Day' comes against her enemies as well.

    But, with that in mind, many of the times the OT talks about the DOTL, it's not directly talking about the time when Christ makes his triumphant return and judges the nations. This table shows it well:

    illustration-day-of-the-lord.png

    But when we get to the NT, the focus of the DOTL changes dramatically because of Christ's first advent. Because of the New Covenant the expectation of the DOTL is his final return, because that's when he will pour out both judgement and blessing upon the nations.

    That's my take of the texts anyway, which I know is probably different to yours! :p
     
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  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There is a correlation between the judgments and events included in *the day of the LORD* (a period, not just a 24-hour day) and the Great Tribulation and its aftermath (approximately 3 1/2 years). Particularly the cataclysmic cosmic events, which are mentioned in the OT as well as the NT.

    The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining (Joel 2:10)

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Mt 24:29)

    And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Rev 6:12-14)
     
  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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  7. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Please explain. What verses do you mean?
     
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    How about the 42 months? Or the two witnesses? Or the two 1260 days? Or Ezekiel's Temple? Or the 70th week of Daniel? Plus a lot more.
     
  9. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Enoch, hope you had a good Christmas!
    Yes, we can expect, I think, to see a correlation between the OT and NT...they are not in isolation from one another. And at times the OT, when speaking of the Day of the Lord is, in fact, talking about that last day. But at other times, the prophets are clearly talking about judgements upon peoples and nations of that time, and referencing said judgements as 'the day of the Lord'.
    When we come to the passages you've given above, again...references from both OT and NT, but all speaking of a single event; Christ's return. A day of judgement and planet wide calamity. How can we know they are the same event? Well, like you've pointed out, the descriptions are too similar to ignore. And Matthew 24 tells us that these things happen at Christ's return. But beyond that, in Joel 2 we see God speaking amongst his army. And in Revelation we see the wicked on earth trying to hide their faces from the Lamb...something they wouldn't need to do if his face was still in heaven.
    But while we can look at these things and see correlation pointing to that final day of Christ's return, I'm still unsure if there's any passage I'm willing to 'hang my hat on' that speaks of this 'Day of the Lord' stretching back 3.5 or even 7 years. I'm not saying it cannot be so, please understand, I'm just saying that I have not yet seen any scripture that calls me to believe that is what God is saying.
     
  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Then I guess the reality of it being around the thousand years must be troubling to you. But I give proof in the link I started this thread with.
     
  11. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Well...wait a minute here. So...it's okay for you to go "if we do x,y,z with proper definitions, blah, blah, blah, then it's fine for us to hey presto more than 24 hours out of 'a day'"....but its not okay for people like me to look at genre, the original meanings and applications of texts in context to their audiences and the way people understood the usage of numbers and apply that to our reading of things now? Because, you know, that sounds a little hypocritical. By looking at genre and proper context, we are, in fact, doing the same as you are, when you apply your special technique to "24 hour days". Basically, you're showing that as long as it suits your doctrine, you'll allow what you want, and condemn what you don't like, regardless if it's biblically rational or consistant.

    You pulled it out of a verse? But which verse?
    Isaiah 13:6 - יוֹם יְהוָֹה - yom Yhvh
    Joel 1:15 - יוֹם יְהוָֹה - yom Yhvh
    Joel 3:14 - יוֹם יְהוָֹה - yom Yhvh
    Amos 5:18 - יוֹם יְהוָֹה - yom Yhvh
    Zephaniah 1:7 - יוֹם יְהוָֹה - yom Yhvh
    Zephaniah 1:14 - יוֹם יְהוָֹה - yom Yhvh
    Malachi 4:5 - יוֹם יְהוָֹה - yom Yhvh

    Every verse you list in your post has the Hebrew as something else. So...you see my confusion here. I'm very happy for you to tell me where you got "hwhy ewy" and if I'm missing your point, but you can't just say "I got it out of a verse" and leave it at that.

    Yes, but you're not talking about Revelation, you were talking about Joel. While the passage undoubtably speaks of judgement upon Judah, it only names "a nation" coming against them. If you want to link this directly with the events in Revelation, to the AC and to the GT, then you need to do some exegetical work.

    Well, I find that a bit humerous, because the chart only plots out, in visual form, what the various verses say about the DOTL. So...how can it be wrong?

    See...to me, this just highlights how much you miss. Did Christ's coming give us more information? Absolutely. But Christ, and Paul, in particular, spent time trying to show us how much more we have in Christ. The Israelites spent the whole OT thinking it was about them. They were God's chosen people. Yes, they kept falling away and being punished, but God was faithful, and always drew them back. Besides, they were promised the Messiah, right? Keep in mind that they fully believed that their Messiah would be an earthly King who would kick out the Romans and set up a magnificent Jewish era on earth. That's one of the big reasons they stumbled so hard over Jesus. Jesus came and told them, and us, that everything...all the OT stories, all the happenings of the Jewish people, led to him. The bible is all about him, not Israel. If we don't read the OT through the lense of Christ's coming and his work on the cross, then we miss the point. When people today still say that the bible is all about Israel...and I've heard them say it...then my goodness, they miss the mark so widely. Israel was the vehicle in which God chose to bring the Savior of the world. And that bought the people both blessings and curses. They were loved by God because of it, and hated by man because of it. But it's still all about Jesus. The information we have because of what he did when he came blew it wide open, as they say. If you can't find Jesus or the need for Jesus in the OT, then you're not reading it correctly.

    Again...you say this, but apart from quoting passages with the phrase in it, you haven't actually shown how all these things are biblically linked together with said phrase. Shouldn't that be where you ought to start?
     
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  12. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid I miss your point in relation to my post. How does what I said have anything to do with the thousand year mark. And I'm not sure I read anything resembling proof in your link....
     
  13. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    You just defeated yourself. If you look at the original meanings and applications and how they used it then you would know what I said is true.

    Then you apply it to how you read now.

    Just requires study of the Bible, a good interlinear and scholars who have studied the issues. Not just one scholar but numerous scholars.

    I did that.

    As far as which verse I used I wrote this in 2006. Could you remember offhand a specific verse from then?

    What you're missing is the context people used in back then.

    In the Old Testament, a week as used in Daniel is seven years.

    A day was sunset to sunrise or any portion thereof.

    No, I am using the reality.

    As already explained, a day back then was not 24 hours.

    In fact, a day today is not 24 hours. Check it out for yourself.


    I do see your confusion. But you have to understand certain words had exact meanings and exact usages. Others did not.

    As of today, depending on use it could be a 24 hour day, a 24 year day or even a 2400 year day.


    Joel is loaded with prophecy. As with most prophecy it had an immediate meaning and a future meeting.

    Like with Christ telling them to flee Jerusalem. It had a 70 A.D. meaning and a mid-trib meaning.

    And how about son of God? Indeed it applies to Christ but it also applied to Adam and several other men who were all called son of God.

    Because when all of those events you referenced occurred none of them were called day the Lord.

    True, but it is not an either or proposition, it is both.

    After separating from down and punishing them.

    Of course the need for the Messiah is in the OT.

    Jesus is fully in the OT as a prophetic promise, not a physical reality then.

    Not my fault you can't see it.
     
  14. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Day of the Lord starts the millennium which is 1000 years
     
  15. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Didn't read the link did you?
     
  16. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    I just defeated myself? Wow, how foolish of me. And yet...still theres this issue of you not making sense.
    You say that by reading a text properly you can make "day" mean more than a 24 hour period. As in, not literal. And I get that.
    But when I say that when we apply the same logic to the genre of Revelation; look at the use of numbers throughout the book, which people from every end time system agrees upon, by the way, that we can also come to a place where we don't need to force 1000 years into a strict 1000 year category....apparently I've gone to crazy town and have "defeated myself" and the joke's on me.
    Except you've just proven that you cannot be consistent with your hermeneutical principles. That blows back upon you, friend, not me. You pick and choose which verses you want to interpret in a literal or non-literal fashion so as to fit into your system. That is a great folly indeed.


    I think if you're hanging a whole study upon it, then yes you should. And if you're making a point from several listed verses and none of them show that particualr Greek usage of the phrase, then...well...yeah...it's a little problematic.

    A week in Daniel is seven years? Doesn't that just help me prove my point, thought? Numbers in prophetic and apocolyptic books are used symbolically. They represent real things that have real meanings, but the numbers are symbolic. And even Futurists recognize that the number 7, for example, holds meaning.
    So don't try and tell me I'm foolish for suggesting that the bible consistently uses numbers in this way. It clearly does, and you clearly do as well. You're just selective about it.


    You are using the "reality"? Let me just have a reality check here. Even if the Jews marked their days by sundown to sunup...that's still a 24hour period, yeah?? It still takes the same amount of time for the earth to spin once? The Jews couldn't actually make time move differently?
    So...how is your 'truth' a reality? How is you saying "here I am reading that day is more than 24hours...but when you do it for your thing over there, you have to be wrong...because I am right"...how is that you "using reality?"

    And yet, you still insist that the 1000 years in Revelation must only be 1000 years? Not 1000 days, or 1000 weeks? You are totally inconsistent. You harp on about taking scripture "literally" and yet you divert from it like you have above. And yet when we come to books that have a rich history, genre wise, in how they use numbers and symbols to portray amazing truths, you brush those things aside so you can hold onto the "literalistic" label for all your worth, even though it clearly means nothing, as you dismiss it easily for other things if and when you choose.



    We can agree that Joel is loaded with prophecy, and that yes, some indeed refers to the last days. But you are making assumptions when you apply verses to particular time periods (mid-trib) and to people (AC)...because it doesn't actually say that. And I think we should agree that when it comes to God's word, we need to be careful not to make assumptions. We need to take the time and care to be sure. Now, the direct references in Joel to the cosmic events suggests the times Joel is speaking about, in that particular instance, is Christ's second coming...but apart from that, it's just speculation...Israel has had a lot of nations come against them, and potentially still will.


    Excuse me? What bible are you reading?

    Wail, for the day of the LORD is near;
    as destruction from the Almighty it will come!...
    Behold, the day of the LORD comes,
    cruel, with wrath and fierce anger,
    to make the land a desolation
    and to destroy its sinners from it. -Isaiah 13:6, 9


    That day is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts,
    a day of vengeance,
    to avenge himself on his foes.
    The sword shall devour and be sated
    and drink its fill of their blood.
    For the Lord GOD of hosts holds a sacrifice
    in the north country by the river Euphrates. -Jeremiah 46:10

    You have not gone up into the breaches, or built up a wall for the house of Israel, that it might stand in battle in the day of the LORD. -Ezekiel 13:5

    For the day is near,
    the day of the LORD is near;
    it will be a day of clouds,
    a time of doom for the nations. -Ezekiel 30:3

    Alas for the day!
    For the day of the LORD is near,
    and as destruction from the Almighty it comes. -Joel 1:15


    Blow a trumpet in Zion;
    sound an alarm on my holy mountain!
    Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble,
    for the day of the LORD is coming; it is near,...
    The LORD utters his voice
    before his army,
    for his camp is exceedingly great;
    he who executes his word is powerful.
    For the day of the LORD is great and very awesome;
    who can endure it?...
    The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. -Joel 2:1, 11, 31

    Multitudes, multitudes,
    in the valley of decision!
    For the day of the LORD is near
    in the valley of decision. -Joel 3:14

    Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD!
    Why would you have the day of the LORD?
    It is darkness, and not light,...
    Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light,
    and gloom with no brightness in it? -Amos 5:18, 20

    For the day of the LORD is near upon all the nations.
    As you have done, it shall be done to you;
    your deeds shall return on your own head. -Obadiah 15


    Be silent before the Lord GOD!
    For the day of the LORD is near;
    the LORD has prepared a sacrifice
    and consecrated his guests...
    The great day of the LORD is near,
    near and hastening fast;
    the sound of the day of the LORD is bitter;
    the mighty man cries aloud there. -Zephaniah 1:7, 14

    “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. -Malachi 4:5



    Either, or, what? Both, what? Yes we have both OT and NT. My point is we cannot read them in isolation. We must read the OT through the lense of the NT. Anything else essentially makes the NT a separate story, rather than the culminating story.

    I'm sorry, but this sentence makes no sense.

    And yet, you guys still make it all about the law and the Jews and the separation of the covenants. When the NT tells us that Christ came to break that down, to finish it all and unite us all in him, you insist that a time will come when the church will get yanked out of the way so the Jews can revert back to OT practices and remain separate from us. Sure...you soften it by saying they still need Jesus. But you ignore the fact that by bringing a temple and sacrifices and a separation between the peoples of God into it, you've just ignored everything Christ died for and everything the NT has taught us. It makes zero sense, salvational wise and seriously contradicts scripture.


    See what? Your bountiful proof? Don't I keep asking for passages and scripture? You keep NOT giving it. How can it be "my fault" for not seeing what you don't give.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  17. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I believe the DofL starts with the 6th seal and continues through to the end of the millennium.
     
  18. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath is just a single day event. Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:5-8, Zechariah 3:9, Revelation 18:8
    If it lasted longer, nothing would survive. As it is the dead will be like swaths after the reaper. Jeremiah 9:22 & 25:33
     
  19. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    For a long time it has been a conundrum for me to understand why futurists accept the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 as figurative, accurately understanding it to mean 490 literal years, even to the point of separating the last week from the 70 and giving it a future 7 year application, yet discarding that hermeneutic and trashing it to make every other time prophecy as literal, such as the 1260 days, and 42 months.

    Aside from making things look like God's left hand doesn't know what HIs right hand is doing.
     
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  20. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    I read through the link as far as my limited understanding of language would allow, (I have no experience of study in Greek or Hebrew) and am willing to allow you your interpretation as the DOTL to be longer than a literal 24 hour period. I have no argument against that, so will let it lie.
    What I do not, nor can I accept, is the commonly held belief in a future literal 7 year period and the reasoning associated with it concerning the AC, the mid term peace treaty, the re-establishment of the Jewish temple etc etc. Most of all that scenario is based on the faulty hermeneutic that rips a week away from Daniels 70 weeks, for no sound exegetical reason, and on top of that reads literal into every other prophetic time period and casting them all into an unknown and unknowable future.
     
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