Dead Faith???

[H. Richard]

Faith - Trust - Confidence - Hope

All of the above words mean the same thing in that each one of them can be used to define the other.

Salvation: Faith - Trust - Confidence - Hope in what Jesus did on the cross to pay for our sins.

*******

And along comes James and his famous words; "Faith without works is dead."

Person #1. Making 140,000 a year and has extra money to give to Charities.
Has only one job and has the time to do Charitable works.
Has lots of works to make sure his faith is not dead and thinks he is a good Christian.
(see Luke 18:10-14)

Person #2. Making 45,000 a year and working two jobs has no money to part with.
Since he/she is working two jobs they have no time to do Charitable works and very little to socialize. -- The person ""worries"" that they are not doing enough works to make sure their faith is not dead and worries that their faith is dead.

Person #3. Living on a social security check has no spare money to give.
Has no money for a car and a car's expense to travel and do Charitable works.
""Worries"" that he/she is not doing enough to make sure their faith is not dead and they feel they are not a good Christian. (my mother was like this)

Note Person #3 is very susceptible to TV preachers saying they have to step out in faith and send them money.

***********

Question #1. --- What does the statement "faith without works" do to the faith, trust, confidence, and hope in Christ of persons #2 and #3? ---- What does it do to their peace and joy in Christ?

Question #2. --- Tell me how a person's works "increase their faith" and makes their faith ""perfect?"" ---- Doesn't it do just the opposite? Doesn’t it make them have faith in themselves and their efforts?

In this age the children of God are at rest in God and have ceased from their own works just as God did from His.

Heb 4:1-11

1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

"So I swore in My wrath,
'They shall not enter My rest,'"

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said:

"Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts."

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
NKJV

What was the disobedience example??? see verse 3

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @H. Richard,

I am in agreement with the spirit of your post.

I would say that I myself am on social security/disability but this does not prevent me from doing what I can for the Lord.

The person who feels that they are under pressure to do good works in order to be saved does not have the right perspective and is very likely not saved.

But the person who knows that they are saved; and out of gratitude does whatever they can for the Lord because they have fallen in love with Him, shows that they are saved by what they do for the Lord.

Man looks on the outward appearance; but God looks on the heart.

Before the Lord, they are justified by their faith alone. Man looks at them and says, "That person is definitely saved" because he sees the works that come from the love that the Lord has placed in their heart. If Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory, but not before the Lord. Before the Lord he was justified by faith. But Abraham can glory before men because in the sight of man, he was indeed justified by works.

If someone doesn't have works, they ought to question their salvation.

But if someone knows they are saved through faith alone in the blood of Jesus Christ, then the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their hearts; and this will become evident over time by what they do. They are not trusting in their works to save them, so they are free from the pressure. They would be saved even without works. But because they are set free, good works are sure to be evident in their lives.

It should be clear from scripture that we will all be judged by our works on that day, as evidence of whether we were saved or not (Romans 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Episkopos]

Question #1. --- What does the statement "faith without works" do to the faith, trust, confidence, and hope in Christ of persons #2 and #3? ---- What does it do to their peace and joy in Christ?

Question #2. --- Tell me how a person's works "increase their faith" and makes their faith ""perfect?"" ---- Doesn't it do just the opposite? Doesn’t it make them have faith in themselves and their efforts?

In this age the children of God are at rest in God and have ceased from their own works just as God did from His.

You are making this about not hurting people's feelings with the truth. But it is the truth that sets us free...not feelings.

You are making this about the flesh...again.

In this age people are lawless and sinning while claiming to be in Christ while they do so. It is all lies of course. We are in the age of the great falling away. People who are blind claiming to see. The naked claiming to be wonderfully clothed. The wretched claiming to be saved and sanctified in their filth. Religious beliefs have replaced faith in a living God.

THAT is what you are both experiencing and doing.

it is the sign of these times...the end times.

Give the people what they want. Preach comforting lies and fill the pews.

 

[icxn]

Persons 2 and 3 are doing great spiritual work (humility), especially the last one. Yes, charity is a good work, but where there's no humility (person 1) all is rotten. In doubting one's a good Christian, persons 2 and 3 are working out their salvation with fear and trembling... with humility.

Quote:

“This is the mark of Christianity: however much a man toils, and however many righteousnesses he performs, to feel that he has done nothing, and in fasting to say, ‘This is not fasting,’ and in praying, ‘This is not prayer,’ and in perseverance at prayer, ‘I have shown no perseverance; I am only just beginning to practice and to take pains’; and even if he is righteous before God, he should say, ‘I am not righteous, not I; I do not take pains, but only make a beginning every day.’ He should every day have the hope and the joy and the expectation of the coming kingdom and deliverance, and to say, ‘If today I have not been delivered, I shall tomorrow.'” - St Macarius the Great of Egypt, Homily 26, 11​

 

[Jay Ross]

If a person is walking with Christ and following Christ's prompting to stop and talk with a person, or to spend time with a person, to share as the Lord directs, then that person is doing what is right within their ability to bring Glory to God.

A person who has "money" to splash around and wants others to know that he is doing so, is missing the point of Blessing others with their available assets. Thy will have their reward here on the earth before the final judgement, but at the final judgement, they may be very disappointed.

It is the attitude of the heart that is judged, which reflects the type of "works" that the person has undertaken. How is kindness measured by God's measure? Is not kindness towards others a measure of the person's heart condition with respect to God if it reflects God's heart towards others?

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

In this age the children of God are at rest in God and have ceased from their own works just as God did from His.

This is a misapplication of this verse in the context of your OP. "ceased from their own works" means that the children of God are not striving to earn salvation through the works of the Law, but resting in the finished work of Christ FOR THEIR SALVATION.

On the other hand good works are necessary for SANCTIFICATION.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)

 

[justbyfaith]

On the other hand good works are necessary for SANCTIFICATION.

It is the other way around...sanctification is unto good works.

 

[H. Richard]

This is a misapplication of this verse in the context of your OP. "ceased from their own works" means that the children of God are not striving to earn salvation through the works of the Law, but resting in the finished work of Christ FOR THEIR SALVATION.

On the other hand good works are necessary for SANCTIFICATION.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)

Sorry Enoch111, you are saying our sanctification is by our works and that is not true. The children of God have already been sanctified (A DONE DEAL) by the Holy Spirit. It is not what we do.

1 Cor 6:11-12
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
NKJV

But if you want to be sanctified by your works I hope it works for you.

 

[Episkopos]

Sorry Enoch111, you are saying our sanctification is by our works and that is not true. The children of God have already been sanctified (A DONE DEAL) by the Holy Spirit. It is not what we do.

1 Cor 6:11-12
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
NKJV

But if you want to be sanctified by your works I hope it works for you.

Your position flies in the face of the biblical statement that we will all be judged by our deeds (works). Your scheme does not fit into the truth.

2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.

If our works are holy...then there is a reward. If our works are carnal then we shall suffer loss.

 

[Episkopos]

Sorry Enoch111, you are saying our sanctification is by our works and that is not true. The children of God have already been sanctified (A DONE DEAL) by the Holy Spirit. It is not what we do.

1 Cor 6:11-12
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
NKJV

But if you want to be sanctified by your works I hope it works for you.

Your position flies in the face of the biblical statement that we will all be judged by our deeds (works). Your scheme does not fit into the truth.

2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.

If our works are holy...then there is a reward. If our works are carnal then we shall suffer loss.

 

[justbyfaith]

The children of God have already been sanctified (A DONE DEAL) by the Holy Spirit.

But not if it is not visible that the person is living a sanctified life.

Sanctification is a real thing; it is not only positional, it is practical.

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Heb 10:10, By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[Enoch111]

The children of God have already been sanctified (A DONE DEAL) by the Holy Spirit.

TRUE

It is not what we do.

FALSE.

There are three tenses to sanctification -- past, present, and future. And good works belong to present sanctification. What you are promoting is the idea that Christians need not do the good works which they have been appointed to do. AND THAT IS FALSE DOCTRINE.

Futre sanctification will be the perfection of the saints at the Rapture (1 John 3:1-3 and other passages).

 

[justbyfaith]

Futre sanctification will be the perfection of the saints at the Rapture (1 John 3:1-3 and other passages).

In the kjv, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 states that when sanctified wholly, we will be preserved blameless in spirit and soul and body unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I contend that this is the faithful rendition of the verse. We can be sanctified wholly in this life, a sanctification that will last in us until the Lord returns. If we have a hope in the Lord's return, we purify ourselves even as He is pure. This indicates to me that our hope creates in us already what we will receive when the day arrives; because we desire it in our future.

 

[H. Richard]

SANCTIFY = 1. TO MAKE HOLY; SPECIFCALLY, 2. TO MAKE FREE FROM SIN (PURIFY, TO SEPARATE AS HOLY; CONSECRATE

Mankind can not do any of this. Only God can. It is the spirit that indwells the child of God that is sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Sinful flesh can not be made free from sin.

 

[Episkopos]

SANCTIFY = 1. TO MAKE HOLY; SPECIFCALLY, 2. TO MAKE FREE FROM SIN (PURIFY, TO SEPARATE AS HOLY; CONSECRATE

Mankind can not do any of this. Only God can. It is the spirit that indwells the child of God that is sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Sinful flesh can not be made free from sin.

This is gnosticism...where are person can be both a saint and a sinner at the same time. It is the person who says...I sin, but it doesn't count.

What a foolish and powerless deception to foist on yourself and others when the gospel is available to believe in....the real gospel with it's power of victory over sin.

But a lack of faith in the truth will keep people in their bondage...and deception.

1 Thess. 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This thread is aptly titled.

 

[H. Richard]

Every child of God has victory over their sins of the flesh because they are "IN CHRIST". Those are not just words to say nothing.

Every child of God has been placed "IN CHRIST' and therefore their sins of the flesh are gone. If a person's sins are paid for then how can they condemn him/her?

I thank God always for making a way for sinners to be saved by their faith in Him and His work on the cross. If I boast in anything it will be in Jesus who died for my sins on a cross. It is because of this that there are some who want to silence what I post.

But that is okay. I am safe "IN CHRIST" and they can not get me to place my faith in myself.

 

[Waiting on him]

Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.. the works of God is simply believe= Faith without believe= dead. Does anyone else feel like they need to commend or testify of themselves?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

This is gnosticism...where are person can be both a saint and a sinner at the same time.

Gnosticism? That's an extreme straw man.

Scripture refutes you as well. Paul, foremost of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15, present tense. 1 John 1:10. All converted saints still sin, but they don't practice sin or "set up shop" to sin.

It is the person who says...I sin, but it doesn't count.

So you've added this to the equation. Some people believe this, but this isn't the issue in the context of the discussion.

 

[Waiting on him]

John 6:29 KJV
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Tecarta Bible

 

[BreadOfLife]

Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.. the works of God is simply believe= Faith without believe= dead. Does anyone else feel like they need to commend or testify of themselves?

James lays down the definition of Faith in Chapter 2 of His Epistle (James 2:14-26).
He states that if all you do id "believe" - then you are no better off than the DEMONS, who also believe (James 2:19).

The context of Scripture teaches us that:
TRUE Faith = Belief + Works (obedience).
Unless we cooperate with God's grace, we cannot hope to be saved.

This is why Luther despised the Epistle of James, referring to it as "The Epistle of Straw", and tried to remove it from the Canon.

Paul stated that God has prepared good works for us in advance.
These are NOT works of our own - but opportunities that HE created FOR us (Eph. 2:10).