Dead in Sin !

[brightfame52]

One of the most hated doctrines of the scripture is the truth that man by nature is dead spiritually, dead in trespasses and sins. This truth is derived from the fact that Paul when writing to the Ephesians believers, he noted their natural state as being as follows: Eph 2:1,5


And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;


even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

And he being consistent in his teachings wrote to Christians in Colosse Col 2 13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

This means that until one is quickened, or made alive spiritually, they can have no spiritual advancement towards God. Their, heart, mind , will, and affections are all under the power of sin, dead in sin. Everything we do as it pertains to spiritual things, is sin !

Prov 15 8

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Prov 21 4

An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

A person before they can come to God aright, in faith and repentance, they must first be spiritually raised from the dead ! That can also be called quickened, made alive, to call upon the Name of the Lord. Ps 80 18

So will not we go back from thee:
quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

Hence they which do Call upon the Name of the Lord Rom 10 13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Give evidence that they have been previously quickened from the dead in sin !

 

[DNB]

One of the most hated doctrines of the scripture is the truth that man by nature is dead spiritually, dead in trespasses and sins. This truth is derived from the fact that Paul when writing to the Ephesians believers, he noted their natural state as being as follows: Eph 2:1,5


And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;


even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

And he being consistent in his teachings wrote to Christians in Colosse Col 2 13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

This means that until one is quickened, or made alive spiritually, they can have no spiritual advancement towards God. Their, heart, mind , will, and affections are all under the power of sin, dead in sin. Everything we do as it pertains to spiritual things, is sin !

Prov 15 8

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Prov 21 4

An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

A person before they can come to God aright, in faith and repentance, they must first be spiritually raised from the dead ! That can also be called quickened, made alive, to call upon the Name of the Lord. Ps 80 18

So will not we go back from thee:
quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

Hence they which do Call upon the Name of the Lord Rom 10 13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Give evidence that they have been previously quickened from the dead in sin !

Hello BF52, I believe that you have misinterpreted every verse that you quoted. The most important clause seems to have eluded you - it is God's forgiveness that quickens us, not an ontological mutation that occurs upon confessing Christ.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

There is absolutely no proof for what you are professing, that somehow men are made alive and therefore their demeanors and propensity to sin have been altered by some supernatural endowment by God. When was the last time that you witnessed that? How and why, in the world did God somehow cause a total depravity in man, the inherent inability to do what's right? Why were there capital crimes under the Mosaic Law, if man was incapable of abiding by them, or why did God proclaim for man to be holy, as He is holy? Are we not created in God's image, and wasn't that still the case even after the fall (Genesis 9:6)?

'Dead in sins' simply means no means of salvation, and that the future for such people, only holds imminent and permanent death. But, being exposed to the universal Gospel (all people's are eligible for salvation), hope has been restored and thus, their spirits (morale) have been made alive to act towards purity and hope.

 

[CharismaticLady]

it is God's forgiveness that quickens us, not an ontological mutation that occurs upon confessing Christ.

Well, you haven't a clue that being born again IS an ontological change in our core being from the sin nature to a divine nature making us children of God.

When was the last time that you witnessed that?

February 9, 1977 around 8:00 pm on a Wednesday night prayer service at Church on the Way in California. That person was me. The change in my desires was instant and overwhelming. Once you receive this change you will KNOW it, and stop all your doubting and human reasoning forever.

1 Corinthians 1:19-20
19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

 

[justbyfaith]

So will not we go back from thee:
quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

Does the person have to be quickened before they can pray this prayer?

 

[brightfame52]

Hello BF52, I believe that you have misinterpreted every verse that you quoted. The most important clause seems to have eluded you - it is God's forgiveness that quickens us, not an ontological mutation that occurs upon confessing Christ.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

There is absolutely no proof for what you are professing, that somehow men are made alive and therefore their demeanors and propensity to sin have been altered by some supernatural endowment by God. When was the last time that you witnessed that? How and why, in the world did God somehow cause a total depravity in man, the inherent inability to do what's right? Why were there capital crimes under the Mosaic Law, if man was incapable of abiding by them, or why did God proclaim for man to be holy, as He is holy? Are we not created in God's image, and wasn't that still the case even after the fall (Genesis 9:6)?

'Dead in sins' simply means no means of salvation, and that the future for such people, only holds imminent and permanent death. But, being exposed to the universal Gospel (all people's are eligible for salvation), hope has been restored and thus, their spirits (morale) have been made alive to act towards purity and hope.

No God's forgiveness doesn't quicken anyone, that is in your imagination. It's the Spirit that quickens.Jn 6 63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Now please stay on topic

 

[brightfame52]

Does the person have to be quickened before they can pray this prayer?

Does a dead person need to be alive to pray? Answer that question and you have the answer to your question

 

[07-07-07]

One is indeed dead in sin, but whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

John 5
[14] Afterward Jesus findeth him [ a man Jesus healed] in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

I believe that worse thing is the torment from the flames of hell. After all, what could possibly be worse than having to lay on your bed because of an infirmity you had for 38 years? That was the condition the man had been in until Jesus showed up in his life.

John 5
[5] And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
[6] When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
[7] The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
[8] Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

 

[ChristisGod]

One is indeed dead in sin, but whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

John 5
[14] Afterward Jesus findeth him [ a man Jesus healed] in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

I believe that worse thing is the torment from the flames of hell. After all, what could possibly be worse than having to lay on your bed because of an infirmity you had for 38 years? That was the condition the man had been in until Jesus showed up in his life.

John 5
[5] And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
[6] When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
[7] The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
[8] Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

who is the Son ?

how can He set one free ?

where does that power come from ?

someone or something outside of Him ?

 

[07-07-07]

who is the Son ?

Jesus of Nazareth.

how can He set one free ?

The blood

where does that power come from ?

Jesus of Nazareth

someone or something outside of Him ?

All power has been given to the Son, Jesus of Nazareth

Mathew 28
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[ChristisGod]

Jesus of Nazareth.



The blood



Jesus of Nazareth



All power has been given to the Son, Jesus of Nazareth

Mathew 28
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So Jesus is not Fully God ?

 

[07-07-07]

So Jesus is not Fully God ?

Fully

 

[ChristisGod]

Fully

Then He has all the same Divine Attributes as the Father and the Holy Spirit. All the Omni's lacking nothing in His Divine nature as God Incarnate.

 

[DNB]

No God's forgiveness doesn't quicken anyone, that is in your imagination. It's the Spirit that quickens.Jn 6 63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Now please stay on topic

You don't seem to know what the word 'quickeneth' means, nor the context that it's used in.
It's a shame that you barely even know what the topic is.
You misinterpreted every single verse that you quoted.
Try and stay in the context of the pericope before offering any insight into its meaning.

 

[07-07-07]

Then He has all the same Divine Attributes as the Father and the Holy Spirit. All the Omni's lacking nothing in His Divine nature as God Incarnate.

Why are you overthinking it? Some things we won't know until the fullness of time.

 

[ChristisGod]

Why are you overthinking it? Some things we won't know until the fullness of time.

No overthinking at all either the Son is fully God like the Father or He is not.

 

[CharismaticLady]

No overthinking at all either the Son is fully God like the Father or He is not.

Yes, Jesus is all God, HOWEVER, He was the Word first and emptied Himself of the glory (the Omni's) so that He could actually die for our sins, and then just before going to the cross and could, He made His request that the Father would give Him back the glory (the Omni's) He had before when He was with the Father. So even though He was the same "person"/God He willingly emptied Himself, and then was restored with the Glory.

These are not my opinions, this is what Scripture says.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, Jesus is all God, HOWEVER, He was the Word first and emptied Himself of the glory (the Omni's) so that He could actually die for our sins, and then just before going to the cross and could He made His request that the Father would give Him back the glory (the Omni's) He had before when He was with the Father. So even though He was the same "person"/God He willingly emptied Himself, and then was restored with the Glory.

These are not my opinions, this is what Scripture says.

that is not true as you are embracing the false teaching called the kenosis heresy. its a charasmatic/pentecostal false teaching that was taught by Hagin, then his protégé copeland, hinn and others in the movement.

see below for the truth

The Empty God | Bible.org

 

[brightfame52]

You don't seem to know what the word 'quickeneth' means, nor the context that it's used in.
It's a shame that you barely even know what the topic is.
You misinterpreted every single verse that you quoted.
Try and stay in the context of the pericope before offering any insight into its meaning.

It's you who appears to be in the dark on what quicken means.

 

[CharismaticLady]

that is not true as you are embracing the false teaching called the kenosis heresy. its a charasmatic/pentecostal false teaching that was taught by Hagin, then his protégé copeland, hinn and others in the movement.

see below for the truth

The Empty God | Bible.org

I never heard it, as I'm not a follower of Copeland and Hagin as they are Word of Faith, and I'm definitely not. I'm not a Pentecostal as far as denomination, and Charismatic is not a denomination, it is someone who believes and keeps the whole New Covenant and Jesus baptizes with His Spirit of fire. It is the opposite of a Cessationist. I have found that only those who have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit know what I'm talking about; others are simply unbelievers. It is too hard to get out of their head.

 

[ChristisGod]

I never heard it, as I'm not a follower of Copeland and Hagin as they are Word of Faith, and I'm definitely not. I'm not a Pentecostal as far as denomination, and Charismatic is not a denomination, it is someone who believes and keeps the whole New Covenant and Jesus baptizes with His Spirit of fire. I have found that only those who have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit know what I'm talking about; others are simply unbelievers. It is too hard to get out of your head.

If you get the time take a look at the link in my last post for the history of the kenosis doctrine which came from a misunderstanding of Philippians 2.