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Featured Deception

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by n2thelight, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    I started this ,but lost everything,so let's do this.

    Deception is the number one thing that Christ warned us about for the end times.

    Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

    Now some would tell you that what Christ is about to say was not written for the Church,so,for that falsehood I'll take you to Mark which is and overlay of the 24th chapter of Matt.24

    Mark 13:37 "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."ALL ,correct?

    Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

    This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time.

    Bare with me now as I'm gonna go here a little there a little as per scripture.

    Pay attention to the below verse.

    II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

    Now this this should automatically take us back to the book of Matt

    Matthew 24:19 "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

    "Woe" means that something real bad is about to happen. This verse has nothing to do with childbirth, or the caring for your children. Jesus is not going against the teachings of Almighty God, but this is directed to another marriage, a spiritual marriage

    Okay so as a man, let's say you just got married and you haven't as yet had sex with your wife,you get called away to somewhere for a very long time,when you get back your wife has a child,how would you feel?

    This is what this verse is talking about.

    Jesus is speaking in a spiritual sense about those that that become impregnated with the mark of the beast. That "Mark of the beast", is a mark of service that is hidden over a long period of time. We are to know this mark, by getting to know who the Kenites are, because when you do not know who they are, then your are taking "the Mark of the beast". By not knowing the Kenites, and what they do, you become deceived by them, and drawn into their service. This is taking the mark in your forehead, and in your right hand; as recorded in Revelation 13:15-18.

    The bride of Christ is Christ church, made of all the members of the body of Christ. That is the bride of Christ, and today any person on the face of the earth can be a member of that bride of Christ. If you believe in Jesus Christ, and repented in Jesus name, you are a part of the bride of Christ. The husband then is Jesus Christ, and we are told to wait for His coming.

    If you have taken on another husband before Jesus return to earth, then spiritually you become married to another husband, being Satan. Christ is bringing this spiritual lesson down to a level of emotions that we can understand. It means that they didn't wait on the true husband, and now, spiritually they stand with child by the wrong husband, and are feeding others [giving suck] the spiritual bad milk that draws them to Satan.

    satan as the antiChrist is the husband whom all will be deceived by.Now since only Christians can be deceived as the rest of the world already are this has to be speaking of the Church

    So, most will say I'm in Christ I can't be deceived,you are the very ones that shall be ,as although being in Christ most don't know the truth and for your own good will He(God) send you a strong delusion

    II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion [send them a working of error], that they should a lie;"

    If you want to believe a lie, God will allow it; in fact he will help you into the system of deceptions Satan will bring on the earth. Do you really think God will come here and personally show you, and talk to you when you refuse to believe His Word, when He gave it in such detail through the prophets and His Son. If you desire to believe that your going to fly out of here, and refuse His word, He will so block your mind that you will not be capable of understanding truth. God will send the "strong delusion" over your mind. The strong delusion is an act of love given by God for your protection.

    II Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned [judged] who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

    This is the reason for the "strong delusion" of verse eleven; "That they might be damned", it would be more accurately translated "condemned". Condemned for not believing the truth in God's Word when given to them. They had the warning, but still followed Satan, and partook in his religious system.

    "Pleasure in unrighteousness" is not referring to drunken brawls, or whore houses, but it is a continuation of the subject here at hand. That subject is "worshipping the Antichrist [Satan] as the true Christ." You will take pleasure in that damnable sin; that unrighteous act will be done in your total ignorance. It's easy to say "I'm saved", but saved from what? The subject here has changed from that of verse eight, to "being damned through deception." The traditions of men will change this subject, from "being deceived by Satan, and enjoying it" to petty activities of the

    Now this brings me to the mark of the beast,it's not physical ,it's giving service to the false one,this is why the rapture is such a dangerous teaching as your very soul is at stake.

    satan is super natural the first supernatural being that you will ever see and he shall do what?Here's that word again

    Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."


    Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles [signs] which he had power [it was given him] to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

    Again ,only Christians can be deceived.The death being spoken of in the end times is a spiritual death,that',satan can't very well go around killing people and have them think he is Christ,however that doesn't mean people won't die physically ,but take a look at those who will be doing the that

    John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

    John 16:3 "And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me."

    This goes back to why God sends the strong delussion from Thess as I wrote earlier

    To believe in a rapture is to be set up to believe in the first supernatural being that set's foot on this earth,and that person is satan .

    Now for those who say once you take the mark you are doomed ,that's not true as the mark is nothing but confusion .

    The elect will be delivered up,with the Holy Soirit speaking through them,which will get some who were Christians to come out of her,babylon,ie confusion

    Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

    When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2,
    on Pentecost day;

    This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet

    This is the time when Gods children those that have been deceived can come out of the mark,ie,confusion .That's why God says in the below

    Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

    This is a warning direct from God through this mighty angel. "You come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins."

    The tribulation is all about deception,not death and destruction....

    So much more I can say however I'll wait as this thread moves forward!!!
     
  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you stick with what is actually in Scripture and why do you contradict what is clearly revealed in Revelation 13, instead of making up your own fanciful interpretation? Is that not deception?
     
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  3. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    All good,you keep thinking the mark is physical,no sweat off my back.

    It's only 2 choices Seal of God or the mark of the beast.Guess you think the seal is physical as well?

    Two tree's ,you belong to one.

    Take it you think somebody gonna die and be brought back to life.

    Now what part of Rev 13 do you feel I'm contradicting ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  4. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    satan and his angels are coming back to this earth,in living color.

    Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

    Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

    Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

    This should take you to what Paul spoke about

    I Corinthians 11:10 "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."

    Which should take you to Matt 24

    Matthew 24:37 "But as the days of Noe were so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

    Which should take you to Gen 6



     
  5. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see the mark of the beast as a physical mark, but I have to agree that you've stepped away from the true intent of Matt 24:19. The passage around v19 is clearly speaking of the AD70 destruction of the temple. There are several reasons we can determine this. Christ speaks of Judea, so it's given a cultural location...it's not worldwide, like you'd expect with the mark. Again, cultural references are shown with the flat rooftops, the walled city. We also know several things: if indeed such a terrible day fell on the Sabbath, travel is forbidden and that would have made it very difficult to flee the city. Common sense tells us that pregnant and nursing mothers would find fleeing difficult. And common sense also dictated that in the case of an oncoming army, people fled TO cities, not away from them. And yet historically, that's exactly what the Christians did. When the Roman army approached, they remembered Christ's warning, and fled to the hills...and Josephus confirms that the Christians were spared the horrifiying seige that followed.
    Given that we can be sure that this passage is talking of the destruction of the temple...and we can be sure...the Disciples had, after all, asked when THAT temple would be destroyed, not a future one....it is a rather odd and unnatural take on the passage to suddenly throw in an understanding about the mark...physical or not.
     
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  6. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    AD 70 was simply a type and as a matter of fact the whole temple was not destroyed in AD 70

    Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

    The Roman General Titus came against Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and destroyed the city. However one of the points of interest of all tours to Jerusalem is the wailing wall. This is wall that stands as the only part of Jerusalem that was left of old Jerusalem, at it's destruction.

    Jesus prophecy in verse two tells us that "there shall not one stone upon another," and that condition has not happened yet. All of the stones of the temple will be turned to dust, at that end of this earth age. Zechariah 14 gives us a profile of how Jerusalem will be, and the events that shall transpire at that time. When Satan has taken his seat in Jerusalem, fulfilling the role of the Antichrist.

    Ecclesiastes 1:9 "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."

    If you can't see being pregnant has to do with giving yourself over to the false one,well

    That's why Paul would say

    II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

    Paul had converted these Corinthians and taught them enough to get their church on the move. Paul is speaking here about and directing attention to those people that are meddling with the church that he has established. Paul is having righteous jealousy over the converts that he brought to salvation, and he is telling them that he has made each of them part of "the bride of Jesus Christ", the anointed One.

    This isn't hard to understand, for most everyone knows what a virgin is. A virgin is an untouched woman. Paul is saying that he wants to present each of these Corinthians as a chaste virgin to Christ, in as much as they are the bride of Christ. Paul is saying that He doesn't want Christ's bride messed with by any of these super-preachers that are causing the divisions within the churches.

    For a young woman to be "espoused" to her husband means that she is completely committed to him, even before the vows have been exchanged. Paul is using this relationship whereby we could understand the emotions of Christ towards His bride. The feeling and commitment goes both ways, and applies to the man as much as it applies to the woman. It is no great secret what causes virginity to be lost, for it is being unfaithful sexually to the one you are espoused to marry.

    If a woman has been unfaithful, and is with child, how could she expect that she could be accepted by the man she was espoused to, when she is carrying another man's child? Paul is afraid that if Christians start listening to these fairy-tale preachers, they will be taken by the wrong christ, or Satan the Antichrist [the instead of Christ]. Then when Jesus Christ returns at the seventh trumpet, they will be found unworthy to be part of "the bride of Christ". Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 24:19; "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" He was not referring to a mother with a child in her womb, but spiritually speaking, Christians that have given themselves over to the wrong husband. In ignorance they will have been deceived into climbing into the spiritual bed of Satan, and their hearts have been given over to the Satan.

    If you are one of the whores of Satan, than you cannot be one of the virgins of Christ waiting with your lamps full of oil [which is the truth from God's Word] that is waiting for the coming of the bridegroom, which is Jesus Christ. Paul now is putting it into a language that most anyone can understand. Paul is saying; "I'm afraid that one of these false teachers is going to seduce you."

    II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

    Oh,the mark was mentioned because if you take it you are deceived ,and the thing is they not even gonna know they took it!!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    All of it.
     
  8. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    I could give you that,but do tell what's the contradiction,else how can we have a discussion?
     
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There is no reference to Kenites in Revelation. And taking the Mark of the Beast is not "spiritual" or simply "deception" either. So let's understand that passage as it was meant to be understood -- a literal account of what is to be in the future and limited to only 42 months.

    FORTY TWO MONTHS FOR THE ANTICHRIST (FUTURE)
    5 And there was given unto him [THE ANTICHRIST] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months...

    AN IDOL WITH LIFE AND SPEECH FOR WORLDWIDE IDOLATRY
    15 And he [THE FALSE PROPHET] had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    AN ACTUAL IDENTIFYING MARK APPLIED WORLDWIDE
    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: [WITH MODERN TECHNOLOGY AN ELECTRONIC CHIP COULD FULFILL THIS]

    ALL ECONOMIC ACTIVITY CONTROLLED BY THE ANTICHRIST
    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    THE NUMBER OF SATAN AND THE ANTICHRIST (666) INCLUDED IN THAT MARK
    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    Now 2 Thessalonians 2 fits right into Revelation 13, even though it does not mention the temple of God (in Jerusalem). That strong delusion is what causes the unbelieving and the ungodly to worship Satan, the Antichrist, and this image of the Beast. And this image of Beast also fits the meaning of the Abomination of Desolation, which will stand in the Holy Place. All of this is literal, not be spiritualized away. This prophecy is not for today, but is for the future, and limited to 1260 days, 42 months, 3 1/2 years.
     
  10. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Do you know who the kenites are ?They are of satan,and his kids the negative part of God's plan ,those whom shall usher in the one world government.The 42 months of the satans reign was cut short as per Christ.

    Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power [authority] was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

    When Satan has arrived to rule over this beast, or one world system, and out of his mouth will come all sorts of lies and blasphemies. He has power only because he was given that power and authority from God, as we saw in Revelation 9:1. Now note how long it is for: "forty two months". Remember, all times given in days are given to the children of God of the light, while all times given in months or moons pertain to Satan and his system of darkness. Revelation 9:5, 10 let us know that this time has been shortened to five months for the elects sake.

    Daniel 8:22-24 tells us that Satan comes in peacefully, and prosperous, and those within his system will have the same prosperity. Who can fight that promise? How much is your soul worth? Satan is not here now, however, when he arrives as the Antichrist, he will offer you to what ever you think your soul is worth.

    Revelation 13:6 "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

    Satan [the Antichrist] is mad and in rage against God, and all who are God's children, as well as the authorities in heaven, and this is because he just got kicked out of heaven. There is only one group of people that will not accept Satan, and that is God's elect. They know what is to come upon the earth, while all others will worship Satan, and be part of his system.

    Revelation 13:7 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nation."

    The only war that exists now will be a spiritual war, a war of words, ideas, concepts, and doctrine. This is why we must have our full armor of God on, as recorded in Ephesians 6:10-20. It spells out the type of warfare and the armor necessary. Satan has power over all other peoples of the earth, because he rules the over his one world system. The "elect of God" will be delivered up to Satan's revival for the purpose of conversion.
     
  11. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 13:15 "And he had power [it was given unto him] to give life [breath] unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

    Satan while sitting in his temple in Jerusalem is given the power to assign his authority to the new religious beast, the "one world system. He has been given the control of all the people on the earth, and he will require them to worship him as god. Satan [the Antichrist] will require their respect, and he will give protection to them and his system. So both the system, and the Antichrist will demand the respect and worship of all people.

    This is in reference to the two witnesses that will be killed, for the trouble they caused to Satan, the people of the earth, and Satan's religious system.

    The moment the political beast is healed, it becomes a religious order, and set of moral codes and controls. It will be a copy of Christ's kingdom that will follow, however, it is a complete deception, and cheap imitation.

    Revelation 13:16 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

    This is the "Mark of the beast" which is confusing to many today. This mark is in your hand, and in your forehead. Can a electronic chip be put in your hand, and forehead change your beliefs? I don't think so.

    "In your hand" is an idiom that means to do Satan's work. You do the work of Satan [the Antichrist] when you bring others to him, or help in his system. This mark in the hand is speaking in a spiritual sense. "In the forehead" is referring to your mind [brain]. Being deceived by Satan in your mind is when you think he is the true Christ, and in ignorance you worship him. No computer chip will condemn you, for it is your faith that you will be judged by.

    Revelation 13:17 "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

    If you take the "mark of the beast" it is a matter of whether you have studied God's word, or not. The mark is a matter of knowing that two Christ's are that coming, and the fake christ is coming first. If you do not know the difference, you will worship Satan thinking he is the true Christ, and you will be deceived. You will be in this world when the Antichrist controls it. We must all eat to stay alive, However, we will not get your bread through worshipping the Antichrist, or relying on his system. Satan's rule is five months, and God has warned us in in Malachi, that we had better have a store house for this time.

    Learn what you must have to fill your needs, and stock up on it. Learn how to barter, and God will protect you. Satan will try to win you over, however, Do not participate in his system.

    Revelation 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

    Wisdom comes from knowledge, and all wisdom is from God, from wisdom comes understanding. We were told to "count the number of the beast". This was written in Greek, and the Greek word means more then counting numbers. You simple can't understand this meaning if you don't understand this Greek word. The word is #5585 in Strong's Greek dictionary, and it means to "calculate by counting the stones that are warn smooth over a long period of time."

    What stones? We were told in chapter two, we would receive a new stone with a new name written on it. This word "count" originated from that word "stone" of chapter two of the book of Genesis. These are the only places in the Bible this word for count, or stone is used. So we must enumerate, or calculate these stones worn smooth over a long period of time. "Their rock is not our Rock, and his stones are not our Stones," is what the overcomers will sing, as the "Song of Moses tells us in Deuteronomy 32. God is our Rock, and Satan is the false rock, but which stones are we to count?

    The stones are the number of man, that man is Satan, and if you know Satan you will know his children. Those stones are his children [offspring]. The "mark of the beast" number [6-6-6] then is to count, or know Satan's children over a long period of time. They are the "Kenites", the offspring of Cain, who was the child of Satan, through Eve, who was "beguiled in the Garden of Eden".

    Jesus said in Revelation 2 and 3 that the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia were the only acceptable churches to Him, because they knew who the Kenites were. The Kenites were "those who said they were Jews, and lied; because they were of the synagogue of Satan". The seven churches are the seven types of churches existing in these last days. Five are not acceptable to God, while the two are.

    Heck you talking about,the unbelieving are already delusional they already worship satan as they have not Christ.

    You need to figure out what spiritual and what's literal,guess you think a bunch of literal locusts gonna come as well.

    A real fire breathing dragon gonna come as well

    At the return of Christ you either gonna be a whore or a virgin,Period!!!!!
     
  12. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and I am sure that in these tours people are told that the Wailing Wall was a retaining wall of the temple. Do you know what a "retaining wall" is? It's the wall you build outside the structure itself to ensure the foundation surrounding the temple is secure. It is not the foundation...or the base wall, or the wall itself. It's the retaining wall. It's a bit like saying "well...my house burnt down, but at least my garden wall there is still standing".

    It most certainly was. When the Temple burned, the gold that was in it melted and ran down into the cracks in the walls. The historian Josephus reported that the Roman soldiers dismantled every stone to get at the gold. And indeed, we see nothing BUT the wailing wall left. And, as I said, the wailing wall is a retaining wall...and a retaining wall, by everyone's standards (look it up) is not part of the temple itself. Sorry.

    Having BEEN pregnant, I can tell you it had nothing to do with giving myself over to the false one. I can tell you it made it quite obvious to me that trying to flee for my life during such a time would have been hard and terrifiying. And I can tell you with common sense and eyeballs that the passage in question doesn't suddenly stop talking about one thing, jump in randomly with another thing, then back again.

    This is just poor exegesis. As I said before, Matt 24 is in the middle of a passage speaking about the destruction of the temple and tribulation. Regardless of whether you see it as the 'old' temple or a 'new' one, that's what the passage is clearly speaking of, and the reference to 'pregnant women' is in direct correlation to that and fleeing the coming horror.

    2 Cor 11 is Paul expressing his commonality in feeling with a father who has bethrothed his daughter...of course in this case it is the Church, not a daughter, and the Groom is Christ. He is expressing how important it is to him to see 'his daughter' remain 'pure'...spiritually...in her bethrothal.

    So...this passage speaks something to what you are attempting to make a point on...but Matt 24? You're reading into it what you want to see.

    No one is debating any of this.

    And...now you've run away with yourself somewhere the text just does't go. You're attempting to make a "point A leads to point Z" argument, but the problem is you're assuming that scripture says everything inbetween and it just doesn't.
    Would a woman cheating get pregnant? Sometimes. Would her betrothed accept it? It depends, often not, but scripture doesn't actually give us many examples, and it most certainly doesn't say either way in Matt 24. Does Matt 24 state that Christians "listening to the words of false prophets" are becoming 'spiritually pregnant with evil thoughts'....Oh, please, come on!
    You ought to take it from someone who people accuse of "spiritualizing" scripture too much. When Matt 24 says "its going to be a really terrible time of tribulation...you won't want to be pregnant or nursing (widely acknowledged to be a woman in the most vulnerable state, by the way)"....that's just what it means and no "secret" meaning should be dug for.

    Yeah. Sure. Here's the problem. Or...another problem. Matt 24:19 doesn't NEED to be about what you are pushing. Why? Because every point you are attempting to wiggle and contort out of that passage unnaturally, has already been made, rather plainly and simply, by Christ in Matt 24 and 25. He DOES warn to watch out for false prophets. He DOES warn for us to keep a watch out and be prepared at all times. We ALREADY know this and are fully prepared because of what Jesus has said. But it's NOT what being pregnant in a time of terrible tribulation means. Just. Not.
     
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  13. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    What do you think the tribulation is all about?Thinking you take it to mean death and destruction and you would be wrong,it's all about deception and that being, satan pretending to be Christ.
     
  14. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    What do I think? I think anyone reading Matt 24 with a lick of sense can SEE what Christ is telling them. Because he just tells them.


    Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple
    Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

    Signs of the End of the Age
    As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
    “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    The Abomination of Desolation
    “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

    And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

    The Coming of the Son of Man
    “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. -Matthew 24:1–31


    The important thing to understand about the Olivet Discourse is that it is prophecy, and that Christ, while giving it, was wearing his "Prophet" hat (of his prophet/priest/king roles). The thing we learned constantly about prophets from the OT is that when they looked ahead they saw numerous differing events as one. In otherwords...they couldn't differentiate between Christ's first coming in humilty to save, and his second coming in triumph to judge...to them they could only percieve one coming.
    In the Olivet Discourse we see the same thing happening, not because Christ himself cannot understand what will happen in the future, but because, as he himself admits, the timing had not been made available to him (or he had not availed himself of it). But, we know that the Discourse answers 3 questions: when will the temple be destroyed, what will be the signs of his coming, and of the end of the age. In the Disciples minds the 3 events were likely one and the same. In our place in history we know they were not.
    As we read into the Discourse, we can see that Christ first addresses signs that will be common across this age, but are not, apparently, a sign of his imminent arrival. We know this because he says that all those things 'must take place, but the end is not yet'. Thus, we can know that these 'signs': deception, false christs, wars, famines and earthquakes. He goes on to tell his Disciples that persecution of believers will be an ever increasing fact of life, something that will grow unto the end. False teachers and prophets will attempt to take advantage of the increasingly desperate times. Wickedness will increase, but so too will the gospel go forth...and then the end will come
    So yes...you are right in saying these things are real and present and a danger. But, as I said...Jesus has warned us quite clearly that we shall always face them and to always be prepared and on guard during this time of his absence.
    Christ then switches his attention to the other question the Disciples asked: the Temple: something is coming that will desocrate it. It will not just be destroyed in a natural disaster...no, just as when Antiochus desocrated the old Temple...something all Jews remembered with horror...so too was something coming that all Jews would recognize as shocking for the Jewish faith. In Luke's version of the Discourse, we are told that this desolation is in direct correlation with the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies. Christ warns his followers to flee! Not towards the gated city as most people would, but away to the mountains. He told them that what would follow would be so terrible that there had never been tribulation like it, nor would there be again. And if Josephus' account of what happened inside the walls of Jerusalem was correct, then there is no doubt that Jesus was right. Hitler's Germany was horrendous and the crimes against the Jews unforgivable, but what went on inside the walls in 70AD was violence of Jew against Jew. Starving mothers ate their children. As a mother, I cannot imagine anything more terrible. We are supposed to give our lives for our children, to protect them...but that? Perhaps this was the true Abomination of Desolation. The people that were once betrothed to God Almighty and a light to the nations were now killing and eating their own. What a sad time. And yet...God still presevered them through it...still saved a remnant, as he always has.
    Christ then changes his focus again...having told his now horrified Disciples about the Temple, he must still answer the question of his coming and the end of the age. He continues by warning again that the days will be dark and deception rife. But, he assures them (and all the readers afterwards), that one can be sure...one will never have to be 'told' of Jesus' arrival or presence when he comes, but, like lightning, seen all across the sky, or circling birds seen at great distances...we all shall KNOW when he arrives...an instant knowing that will not have to be accompanied with a telling.
    And then...ah! What they've been waiting for....the cosmic signs that signal Christ's arrival and the life-altering end of the age!


    So...that rather long-winded commentary on Matt 24 to say....yes. Yes this time IS about deception. Of course it is. But Christ clearly tells us that we're foolish to think it's not about persecution, wars, natural disasters, famines and diseases as well. This is the age we live in. But the particular point I'm trying to make...is that v19, even bookended by clear and obvious warnings about deception....is still just talking about pregnant women in a time of tribulation. If it were not, then Jesus would have avoided answering one of the Disciples questions: what's the deal with the temple when you told us not one stone would be left upon another. We know he answered them, and in answering them, we saw 70AD being played out in staggering accuracy in Christ's prophecy. But...that means that pregnant ladies are just pregnant ladies.
     
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  15. dismas

    dismas New Member

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    N2thelight, you are correct about this 'pregnancy' topic referring to spiritual apostasy, but it seems you lack the scripture to back it up. So here it is, the 'bitter water ritual' from Numbers 5. The 'bitter waters' cause the unfaithful wife to 'lose' the baby (plenty to read between the lines here with this passage). The 'bitter waters' is directly referenced in the 3rd Trumpet & Wormwood Rev 8:10-11 "The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter."

    Numbers 5
    11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “Speak to the people of Israel, If any man's wife goes astray and breaks faith with him, 13 if a man lies with her sexually, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act, 14 and if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself, or if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself, 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest and bring the offering required of her, a tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

    16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

    23 “Then the priest shall write these curses in a book and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. 25 And the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand and shall wave the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 And the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has broken faith with her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become a curse among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.

    29 “This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, though under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when the spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife. Then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall carry out for her all this law. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.”​
     
  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the popularity of a teaching the final arbiter of truth? :eek:
     
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  17. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Let me ask you a simple question,did not Christ tell us everything that will and must happen before His return?I ask because I'm wondering how you can believe in a rapture .

    Again,everything was a type for us,to whom the end would come.

    I Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

    "Ensamples" in the manuscripts is the Greek word "tupos", number 5179 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "a sample, or type; i.e. a model for imitation, a fashion, for manner, or form." So Paul is telling us that those things that we read about in the Old Testament, of the events of the prophets of old are examples of what we should be looking for in our day. This is written to alert all people to be aware of how it shall be before Christ returns. What was written in the Exodus, or in Amos is written as examples for our admonition or warning. All of the Scriptures is given as a warning to those who are living in the times of the ends of this world age of the flesh. We will see the end of the flesh age come to a close, and there are many things that will come to pass right before our eyes that were written about in detail way back in the Old Testament time, and Paul is telling you and I to wake up to those warnings.

    Each of the events that took place, the opening of the Red sea, the building of the false religious forms, and so on. God is telling us "look little children that is what is going to happen to you at the close of this earth age". We are living in that age, and these things are happening now. Can you learn by this? It is so simple. God did not leave us helpless nor hopeless in these end times, and that is why we must become skilled in all of His Word. It is all an example of what is going to befall us in our generation.

    Although physical then, for us it's spiritual.

    Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh ad blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

    This battle we are going to fight against is not "flesh and blood", it is not people you see and hear, but it is against hidden and deceitful spiritual powers. Satan is the prince of darkness, and spiritually he controls the minds and actions of not only rulers of this earth, but all evil spirits in the heavenlies. These are the angelic beings in a fallen state.

    Are you prepared mentally to do battle with Them? This battle is not with guns and swords, but with words and doctrines; with concepts and ideas, and these are the "fiery darts" that Satan will conduct his warfare against you with.

    Daniel 8:23 will give us a view of what this ruler of darkness is like. "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up."

    This king in the "latter time" is Satan, the Antichrist; he is the "king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences". In the Hebrew text it means that Satan is "skilled in dissimulation" of the truth of God's word. Satan knows all of God's word, and as such, he is the father of lies and deception. He will twist and turn the truth a little here and a little there, to make it an outright lie. Satan is the Antichrist on earth, and we must never forget it.

    Daniel 8:24 "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy People."

    He will take away so much of Christianity, and cause so much deception through false doctrines [such as the rapture doctrine] that all those without their full [whole] armor on, will be deceived. He comes "in" [to this earth] with the promise of peace and prosperity; with false hopes and a promise to fulfill your every wish, if you will but follow him.

    Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

    Satan's "policy" is the way he fights, which is his method of operation. The "craft to prosper in his hand", refers to his ability that God will give him to do many miracles and wonders. Revelation 13 tells us how he will use this deceit to trick the whole world, except for God's elect, those with the seal of God {knowledge} in their minds.

    "He shall magnify himself in his heart", is covered in II Thessalonians 2:4; "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing [calling] himself that he is God." This is the "Abomination of desolation [by the desolator]" spoken of in Daniel 9:27, and by Jesus in Matthew 24:15.

    "By peace" is Satan's secret weapon, for peace is the most powerful weapon used against God's people in this final generation. It is dismantling the mind of the Christian church and disarming our nation today. In the end Satan will be "broken without hand", because it will be by the tow edged sword which comes from the mouth of Jesus Christ. The same sword that spoke and worlds were formed, and the stars were put in their places. However, we must not underestimate Satan's power to deceive, and his miracles, and cries for peace, peace, peace.

    I disagree ,as I feel it's being pregnant with the wrong husband.
     
  18. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Thank you,thought I had enough....It all started in the Garden.(flesh wise)
     
  19. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Do you like Bullinger?
     
  20. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Yep
     
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