Did God create evil

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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the amount of mental gymnastics needed to understand this is beyond Einstein’s intellect.

ok, real slow again,
1. The Word was with God.
2. The Word was God.
Now, here it is,
3. John 1:14 says “the Word became Flesh and made His dwelling among us.”

wow! Lets see. Jesus came to earth in the flesh, meaning He left Heaven, and lived among us as 100% man, yet 100% God. I have NO idea how anyone can deny the doctrine of the Trinity.

It's easy for those who have faith in the true God YHWH to know that the trinity isn't true. Those without faith in the true God YHWH will never believe that the true God YHWH has an Only-Begotten Son, and that when the schedule time came YHWH God's Only-Begotten Son came to mankind as 100% human and sacrificed his human life for mankind. A person without faith can't believe that the Only-Begotten Son of YHWH God came in the likeness of the first Adam, who was 100% human. The first Adam wasn't 100% human and 100% God, so a person from heaven would have to come as 100% human and only as 100% human to be in the likeness of the first Adam. A person coming from heaven as 100% human and 100% God is coming not in the likeness of the first Adam but coming in a likeness that is more than just 100% human, those without faith don't believe a person who's 100% human can withstand the temptations of the angel that became Satan the Devil, they believe only a person who's 100% human and 100% God, meaning more than 100% human can withstand the temptations of that person who became Satan the Devil.
 
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Philip James

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The true church wasn't at the council of Nicea.

Hi Barney,

So where were they? Who were they?

Can you trace their community back to its founding by an apostle (or apostles)?

The Church in Rome traces its origins back to Peter and Paul

The Church in Crete back to Titus and Paul

The Church in Alexandria back to Mark

These 3 apostolic communities recognizably teach the faith that you find everywhere the apostles planted a church.. Where is the 2000 year old apostolic community that teaches otherwise?

Peace be with you!
 

Mjh29

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I guess you think God contradicts himself. When God inspired John to write down the first part of John 1:1- in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, that's the truth, it doesn't matter how much anyone disbelieve it. So the last part of John 1:1 doesn't contradict the first part. This scripture doesn't say Jesus is God and John tells us in his gospel that everything he wrote which includes John 1:1 he wrote to teach or convince people that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.
But the whole verse is "The Word was with God...... AND THE WORD WAS GOD. It's right there in nearly every single version and translation of the Scriptures ever produced. And no I do not think that God contradicts Himself in any way. however, I would rather accept the fact that something is true because God said so in His Word -- rather than ignoring the plain teachings of the Scripture because I can't wrap my head around it and I think that it's a contradiction. Sorry, but I'm not gonna edit out parts of the Scriptures so I feel like I totally understand everything. I'll have some understanding of the truth over all understanding of falsehood any day.

The Word was with God....... AND THE WORD WAS GOD. [[One more time to be sure]]
 

Mjh29

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the amount of mental gymnastics needed to understand this is beyond Einstein’s intellect.

ok, real slow again,
1. The Word was with God.
2. The Word was God.
Now, here it is,
3. John 1:14 says “the Word became Flesh and made His dwelling among us.”

wow! Lets see. Jesus came to earth in the flesh, meaning He left Heaven, and lived among us as 100% man, yet 100% God. I have NO idea how anyone can deny the doctrine of the Trinity.
confused-math.gif
hangover-math.gif
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Hi Barney,

So where were they? Who were they?

Can you trace their community back to its founding by an apostle (or apostles)?

The Church in Rome traces its origins back to Peter and Paul

The Church in Crete back to Titus and Paul

The Church in Alexandria back to Mark

These 3 apostolic communities recognizably teach the faith that you find everywhere the apostles planted a church.. Where is the 2000 year old apostolic community that teaches otherwise?

Peace be with you!
Hi Barney,

So where were they? Who were they?

Can you trace their community back to its founding by an apostle (or apostles)?

The Church in Rome traces its origins back to Peter and Paul

The Church in Crete back to Titus and Paul

The Church in Alexandria back to Mark

These 3 apostolic communities recognizably teach the faith that you find everywhere the apostles planted a church.. Where is the 2000 year old apostolic community that teaches otherwise?

Peace be with you!

Matthew 13:36 shows that Jesus is explaining about the wheat and the weeds.
Do you understand what Jesus said about the wheat and the weeds. Do you understand that for a period of time people, humans, would not be able to tell the different who the wheat(true christians) were and who the weeds(apostate christians) were, not until the second presence of Jesus Christ which we're in right now.
I think anyone who is about truth and has faith in the true God YHWH and his Only-Begotten Son Jesus Christ and see the fruits that determines a person or group(church) to be the weeds or wheat can see that those of the council of Nicea were and are the weeds. Why did the bishops of that time meet together in the first place? Isn't it true that the head of the Roman Empire at that time was Constantine, who was anxious to use apostate Christianity as “cement” to consolidate his shaky empire. For him, this theological controversy was counterproductive. He called the Trinity quarrel a “fight over trifling and foolish verbal differences.” Having failed to reconcile the two opposing parties by a special letter sent to Alexandria in 324 C.E., Constantine summoned a general church council to settle the matter either way. At this First Ecumenical Council held at Nicaea, Asia Minor, in 325 C.E., the assembled bishops eventually came out in favor of Alexander and Athanasius. They adopted the Trinitarian Nicene Creed, which, with alterations believed to have been made in 381 C.E., is subscribed to up to the present day by the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and most Protestant churches. Thus it was that Christendom came to worship a mysterious, incomprehensible, three-in-one “unknown God.”
The doctrine of the trinity which people say the definition of such doctrine is basically: "there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. " However you will not find in the Bible anywhere thatvGod inspired men to put this statement down in writing in the Bible.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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But the whole verse is "The Word was with God...... AND THE WORD WAS GOD. It's right there in nearly every single version and translation of the Scriptures ever produced. And no I do not think that God contradicts Himself in any way. however, I would rather accept the fact that something is true because God said so in His Word -- rather than ignoring the plain teachings of the Scripture because I can't wrap my head around it and I think that it's a contradiction. Sorry, but I'm not gonna edit out parts of the Scriptures so I feel like I totally understand everything. I'll have some understanding of the truth over all understanding of falsehood any day.

The Word was with God....... AND THE WORD WAS GOD. [[One more time to be sure]]

I can read, I know how your version of the Bible translates John 1:1. I'm against it being translated that way because you're calling the Apostle John a liar. When John wrote the the first part of John 1:1 as: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God" that is true but, John doesn't contradict himself by writing the the last part by saying the Word is God because that contradicts the part where John says the Word was with God. The Apostle John was a reasonable person just as the scriptures tell us to be, as a reasonable person he knows as that the Word can't be with God and at the same time be God. Also like I said John said in his gospel at John 20:30,31 that everything he was inspired to write down was to teach or convince people that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, that includes John 1:1.
I'm not going to ignore scriptures that the apostle John was inspired by God to write down that show Jesus Christ even after he had been resurrected from the dead, that he has a Father and God that is his apostles and disciples Father and God. So John didn't believe Jesus to be his Father and God the apostle John knew that the Father and God of Jesus was also his Father and God.
 

Mjh29

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I can read, I know how your version of the Bible translates John 1:1.
My version? Try nearly EVERY version on the internet, save the JW redaction version
KJ21
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ASV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
AMP
In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
AMPC
In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
BRG
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
CSB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
CEB
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
CJB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
CEV
In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.
DARBY
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
DLNT
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
DRA
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ERV
Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
EHV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ESV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ESVUK
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
EXB
In the beginning [Gen. 1:1] ·there was the Word [the Word already existed; C the Word refers to Christ, God’s revelation of himself]. The Word was ·with [in the presence of; in intimate relationship with] God [C the Father], and the Word was [fully] God.
GNV
That Word begotten of God before all worlds, 2 and which was ever with the Father, 14 is made man.  6, 7 For what end John was sent from God. 15 His preaching of Christ’s office. 19, 20 The record that he bare given out unto the Priests. 40 The calling of Andrew, 42 of Peter, 43 Philip, 45 and Nathanael. In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
GW
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
GNT
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
HCSB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ICB
Before the world began, there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ISV
In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
PHILLIPS
At the beginning God expressed himself. That personal expression, that word, was with God, and was God, and he existed with God from the beginning. All creation took place through him, and none took place without him. In him appeared life and this life was the light of mankind. The light still shines in the darkness and the darkness has never put it out.
 

Mjh29

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JUB
¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
AKJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
LEB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
TLB
Before anything else existed, there was Christ,* with God. He has always been alive and is himself God.
MSG
The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one.
MEV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
MOUNCE
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with · God, and the Word was God.
NOG
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NABRE
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NASB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NASB1995
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NCB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NCV
In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NET
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God.
NIRV
In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NIV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NIVUK
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NKJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NLV
The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.
NLT
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NMB
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
NRSV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NRSVA
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NRSVACE
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NRSVCE
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NTE
In the beginning was the Word. The Word was close beside God, and the Word was God.
OJB
Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:3], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with, etzel, Mishle 8:30;30:4) Hashem, and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13 i.e., the Ma’amar Memra]
RGT
In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God.
RSV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
RSVCE
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
TLV
In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
VOICE
Before time itself was measured, the Voice was speaking. The Voice was and is God.
WEB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
WE
The Word already was, way back before anything began to be. The Word and God were together. The Word was God.
WYC
In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word. [In the beginning was the word, that is, God's Son, and the word was at God, and God was the word.]
YLT
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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My version? Try nearly EVERY version on the internet, save the JW redaction version
KJ21
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ASV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
AMP
In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
AMPC
In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
BRG
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
CSB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
CEB
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
CJB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
CEV
In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.
DARBY
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
DLNT
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
DRA
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ERV
Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
EHV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ESV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ESVUK
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
EXB
In the beginning [Gen. 1:1] ·there was the Word [the Word already existed; C the Word refers to Christ, God’s revelation of himself]. The Word was ·with [in the presence of; in intimate relationship with] God [C the Father], and the Word was [fully] God.
GNV
That Word begotten of God before all worlds, 2 and which was ever with the Father, 14 is made man.  6, 7 For what end John was sent from God. 15 His preaching of Christ’s office. 19, 20 The record that he bare given out unto the Priests. 40 The calling of Andrew, 42 of Peter, 43 Philip, 45 and Nathanael. In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
GW
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
GNT
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
HCSB
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ICB
Before the world began, there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ISV
In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
PHILLIPS
At the beginning God expressed himself. That personal expression, that word, was with God, and was God, and he existed with God from the beginning. All creation took place through him, and none took place without him. In him appeared life and this life was the light of mankind. The light still shines in the darkness and the darkness has never put it out.
It doesn't matter how many versions there are that translates John 1:1 as your version translates John 1:1.The majority of the people who say they're Christians are weeds, the weeds that Jesus talked about who will deny that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God and they will translate their Bibles that way. I've already told you what John said that Jesus said in his gospel at John 17:3 and John 20:17 and at John 20:30,31. John believed that the Father and God that was Jesus Christ Father and God was his Father and God, but you want to ignore that, so be it.
 

Mjh29

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It doesn't matter how many versions there are that translates John 1:1 as your version translates John 1:1.The majority of the people who say they're Christians are weeds, the weeds that Jesus talked about who will deny that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God and they will translate their Bibles that way. I've already told you what John said that Jesus said in his gospel at John 17:3 and John 20:17 and at John 20:30,31. John believed that the Father and God that was Jesus Christ Father and God was his Father and God, but you want to ignore that, so be it.

So what you're actually saying here is that you refuse to see the mountain of evidence laid before you, and regardless of the fact that your Bible blatantly ignores what the Greek texts say, and what the rest of Scriptures proclaim, you refuse to believe the truth because... it seems to be a contradiction?

.... Right. Well.... again, now I see why JWs need their own Bibles... can't spread the heresy if literally ANY version you grab off the shelves says otherwise.
 

Mjh29

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JWs are in a cult and barney is proving that true.
He is literally saying "I don't care if EVERY other version besides the specific JW Bibles includes this portion of the text... INCLUDING the original Greek texts that date as far back as we have available; I don't believe it." So.... yep sounds like a cult to me.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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So what you're actually saying here is that you refuse to see the mountain of evidence laid before you, and regardless of the fact that your Bible blatantly ignores what the Greek texts say, and what the rest of Scriptures proclaim, you refuse to believe the truth because... it seems to be a contradiction?

.... Right. Well.... again, now I see why JWs need their own Bibles... can't spread the heresy if literally ANY version you grab off the shelves says otherwise.

As I said you're the one who refuses to believe what John was inspired to write at John 17:3 where Jesus who is praying to God, says: "This is eternal life, that they know you the only true God and Jesus Christ, who you sent. You're the one not believing this scripture, not me, I believe this scripture. Also John was inspired to write what Jesus said at John 20:17 which says: "Jesus said to her: "Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God."' I'm not going to disbelieve these scriptures just because you and others choose to, I don't care how many of you that believes the way you choose to.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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JWs are in a cult and barney is proving that true.

Yeah, right, the is, the people of Jesus day called him the ruler of the demons, a liar, a law breaker, etc. I expect you to say unjust things about me as they did about Jesus and his Apostles and disciples. So I really don't care what such people think about me because Jesus said that just as the people of his day said unjust things about him they will say the same about those who follow him.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Matthew G started this post, I’m not qualified to respond, only true christians can respond.
Maybe I can just comment.

Not sure exact verse,
Nothing of itself is evil.
However Adam was born of God, walked and talked to God in the garden. However after he chose Eve over God he became carnal minded.
It’s the “mix” of the two mindsets that create evil.
The Spirit wars against the will of the flesh.
Being spiritual minded and walking like humen creates much confusion, hence the need for Christ to carry a sword sharp enough to divide between bone and marrow.
He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit say etch to the churches, the rest can make their beds in religion.
Isaiah 45:7
CEB
I form light and create darkness, make prosperity and create doom; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

ERV
I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.

ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

KJV
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

NASB
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.

NIV
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.


Evil, trouble, doom, disaster, calamity, however you perceive them, are part of life. They are for lessons and judgments. For us, God's causes ALL THINGS to work together for good. So a disaster or calamity may lead to Grace, a blessing.
Adam and Eve did not eat of the Tree of Knowlegde of Evil, it was the Tree of Knowledge of Good AND Evil. We can't understand what one is without the other. Now we can know and appreciate Who God is and all His attributes from a place of emptiness, darkness, evil. Light shines in the darkness.

"God is certainly sovereign over evil. There's a sense in which it is proper even to say that evil is part of His eternal decree. He planned for it. It did not take Him by surprise. It is not an interruption of His eternal plan. He declared the end from the beginning, and He is still working all things for His good pleasure (Isaiah 46:9-10).

But God's role with regard to evil is never as its author. He simply permits evil agents to work, then overrules evil for His own wise and holy ends. Ultimately He is able to make all things-including all the fruits of all the evil of all time-work together for a greater good (Romans 8:28)." JOHN Macarthur

"
There's moral evil. There's what we would call metaphysical evil—finitude, for example. Whenever the Bible speaks of God bringing evil upon people, it is evil from their perspective. When the fires fell upon Sodom and Gomorrah, the people did not look upon that as a good thing. That was bad news. But it was ultimately good because it was an expression of God's judgment upon their wickedness. It was a punishment wrought by the hand of God upon evil. That doesn't mean that God did something wrong or something morally evil by visiting them with judgment.

This Isaiah text is also written in poetic form. It uses parallelism, a pattern of poetry common to Old Testament Judaism. There are even different types of parallelism.

An example occurs in the Lord's Prayer when Jesus says, "Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." Those two thoughts are parallel and they're basically synonymous; they are saying the same thing only with different words. We find that often in the Psalms.

In Isaiah 45 we have an example of two statements next to each other that are antithetical parallelisms. The first verse is "I create the light and the darkness." Light and darkness are opposites; they're contrasts, they are an antithesis one to another. That's why it's called antithetical parallelism.

The next statement has the same kind of antithesis, but how is the wording? "I make peace, I create evil." It doesn't ring true because peace and evil in our vocabulary are not antonyms, are they? Whereas light and dark are opposites, these are not. What the text is saying is that as God brings good things to bear in this world, he also brings about calamities in his judgment."
RC Sproul
 

Wrangler

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But the whole verse is "The Word was with God...... AND THE WORD WAS GOD.
Right. Are you aware of 3 things:
  1. The Bible uses figurative language. Words are WHAT's not WHO's.
  2. John 1:1 is not about Jesus but God. Jesus is not introduced until v14.
  3. The entire Gospel of John is written to prove something other than what you are repurposing it for. John tells us in v20:31 his purpose for writing what is the most anti-trinitarian book of the whole Bible, is to prove that Jesus is God's Anointed (not God).
 

Wrangler

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But God's role with regard to evil is never as its author. He simply permits evil agents to work, then overrules evil for His own wise and holy ends.
Yea, I think that is right. I'd add that evil is a price God chose to allow freedom to reign.

Odd how this thread asks if God created evil but somehow becomes a man-is-god thread.
 
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Taken

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Did God create evil
OP ^

Yes.

Isa 54:
[
7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God creates and makes.
God’s established Divisions between this and that.
Mankind has Freewill, to choose this or that.

God directs, encourages mankind to particular divisions...
Such as; light, good, peace, etc.
God reveals the benefits for choosing, light, good, peace, etc.

God discourages mankind to particular divisions...
Such as; darkness, wickedness, discord, etc.
God reveals the negative consequences for choosing, darkness, Wickedness, discord.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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ShineTheLight

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Here's another verse

Amos 3:6
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

2 Kings 6:33-34

32 - But Elisha sat in his house, and the elders sat with him; and the king sent a man from before him: but ere the messenger came to him, he said to the elders, See ye how this son of a murderer hath sent to take away mine head? look, when the messenger cometh, shut the door, and hold him fast at the door: is not the sound of his master’s feet behind him?

33 And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the LORD; what should I wait for the LORD any longer?
 

ShineTheLight

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All these horrible things that are happening in America. With Joe Biden as president and all these corrupt leaders doings in the sight of people. Isn't this proof of the evil? This is what we get because of what we as a nation have allowed. We have to get right with God together.
 
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