Did God Need Jesus' Sacrifice to Make You Acceptable to Him?

[bbyrd009]

Are you laboring under the impression that God needed Christ's sacrifice in order to make you saved or acceptable to Him? Because that is a lie, ok, straight from hell and pastors. If you think you have some verse that supports this notion, then post it and let's see.

 

[amadeus]

Our problem was quite simply that before he came and paid the price we were dead. To approach God we cannot be dead. No dead allowed, but it is not necessary that anyone remain dead.

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are you laboring under the impression that God needed Christ's sacrifice in order to make you saved or acceptable to Him? Because that is a lie, ok, straight from hell and pastors. If you think you have some verse that supports this notion, then post it and let's see.

So no sacrifice was needed? I don't understand. What do you believe is the message of Jesus' death and resurrection? Why are we told to eat His flesh and drink His blood? Are you saying we are not "unclean" therefore a sacrifice is not needed?

Zephaniah 1:7-8 KJV
[7] Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord God : for the day of the Lord is at hand: for the Lord hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. [8] And it shall come to pass in the day of the Lord's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.

Genesis 35:2 KJV
[2] Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:

Zechariah 3:2-4 KJV
[2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.


Hebrews 9:24-26 KJV
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: [25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; [26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

 

[ScottA]

Are you laboring under the impression that God needed Christ's sacrifice in order to make you saved or acceptable to Him? Because that is a lie, ok, straight from hell and pastors. If you think you have some verse that supports this notion, then post it and let's see.

No, of course not, He's God and in need of nothing. So that leaves either us being the ones who need Him rather, or Him not needing us, but wanting us. But I am not sure that is what you are getting at.

 

[bbyrd009]

Our problem was quite simply that before he came and paid the price we were dead. To approach God we cannot be dead. No dead allowed, but it is not necessary that anyone remain dead.

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

how does that get turned into "i can't wait to die, to be with the Lord, in that place called heaven" though? Isn't this just as dead?

 

[bbyrd009]

No, of course not, He's God and in need of nothing. So that leaves either us being the ones who need Him rather, or Him not needing us, but wanting us. But I am not sure that is what you are getting at.

um, me neither, lol. Hearing some version of "we're not worthy" once too often, i forget what the comment even was now. Actually i think it was some version of "God is really mad at you" via cg lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

So no sacrifice was needed? I don't understand.

i guess a sacrifice was obviously needed, right, but an uncomfortable truth seems to be that it was people who needed the sacrifice, not God. dang brb

 

[bbyrd009]

What do you believe is the message of Jesus' death and resurrection?

well, certainly not "If you believe Jesus was a Good Guy hard enough, when you die you might/will go to a place called heaven." Of course "Good News! If you die to your self and find Grace, you will un-separate from God" is not going to be very popular i guess; plus it doesn't even seem to be a new message, Bible Search: grace OT.

So, i was just reminded how prevailing the view still is of an Angry God Who needs to be appeased, the God of the OT iow.
And whether it was/is done in ignorance or not i don't know, but this pov is still preached albeit much more covertly now than even 20 years ago. Fire and Brimstone preaching has, thank God, practically died out; but ppl still nonetheless cling to this pov, even believers for the most part still readily accept a Capricious God in Job, "Job is a Book about why bad things happen to 'good' people," etc.

"The Son of Man must be raised up, like a Snake on a Pole, in order to draw all men unto Himself" can be understood more than one way, is my premise here.

 

[amadeus]

how does that get turned into "i can't wait to die, to be with the Lord, in that place called heaven" though? Isn't this just as dead?

Here's where I see the necessity of recognizing that we are all double-minded until all of the "old man" of us has been killed.

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?" James 4:1

John the Baptist put it like this:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

This speaks of the new man born in us and the old man not yet completely dead within us. Solomon was given words to write about this long before Jesus was born to Mary in Bethlehem:

"She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:2

The "she" is "wisdom" from verse 9:1, whereas the "beasts" are our old man with his beastly ways. All of those beastly ways all have to die. Solomon recognized the need without full understanding of where the "wisdom" would come from:

"The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here." Matt 12:42

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

 

[bbyrd009]

Why are we told to eat His flesh and drink His blood?

surely a euphemism for absorbing as much Christ as one can, put other ways, "meditate on the Word," etc
(which we might note is still currently interpreted "think on what you are reading in the Bible," so iow a perfect mirror of where the church heart is at right now, that reflects our love of the Law. "Meditate on Word" turned into a ritual, prolly),
not to diminish the ritual.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

well, certainly not "If you believe Jesus was a Good Guy hard enough, when you die you might/will go to a place called heaven." Of course "Good News! If you die to your self and find Grace, you will un-separate from God" is not going to be very popular i guess; plus it doesn't even seem to be a new message, Bible Search: grace OT.

So, i was just reminded how prevailing the view still is of an Angry God Who needs to be appeased, the God of the OT iow.
And whether it was/is done in ignorance or not i don't know, but this pov is still preached albeit much more covertly now than even 20 years ago. Fire and Brimstone preaching has, thank God, practically died out; but ppl still nonetheless cling to this pov, even believers for the most part still readily accept a Capricious God in Job, "Job is a Book about why bad things happen to 'good' people," etc.

"The Son of Man must be raised up, like a Snake on a Pole, in order to draw all men unto Himself" can be understood more than one way, is my premise here.

Understood but I ask you to consider:

Romans 13:4 KJV
[4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good.

Who is "he"? Who is "thee"? He is a minister of God to thee for good.

There is a "but"

But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you saying we are not "unclean" therefore a sacrifice is not needed?

no, but what i am saying is that our uncleanness doesn't bother God even a little; the equivalent of changing a dirty diaper, perhaps, in God's eyes. As "Who told you that you were naked?" suggests. And "God is Love" confirms, imo.

 

[bbyrd009]

Zephaniah 1:7-8 KJV
[7] Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord God : for the day of the Lord is at hand: for the Lord hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. [8] And it shall come to pass in the day of the Lord's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.

nice, also "foreign clothing," the NLT even (rather boldly imo) suggests "pagan customs."

in this light we might explore exactly what "Jesus cult" means (since "Nehushtan worship" is basically Greek to most ppl), which i notice wow has gotten way harder to search, can't even find a decent definition now in google.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is a "but"

But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

nice! now it only remains to discover why those of a better covenant still perceive from the pov of the old covenant, i guess

 

[VictoryinJesus]

nice! now it only remains to discover why those of a better covenant still perceive from the pov of the old covenant, i guess

Amen! Exactly.

 

[Helen]

i guess a sacrifice was obviously needed, right, but an uncomfortable truth seems to be that it was people who needed the sacrifice, not God. dang brb

True.
God set His plan in motion already knowing man would fail. That is why
" The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world."
He didn't "need" a sacrifice, He already knew by LOVE what the sacrifice would be...Himself. That is how much He loved us, even when we were all still in Him, and even Adam had not been brought forth.
That's why I cannot believe in the hell that some people preach.
Punishment yes, cleansing fire ,yes....but every man saved in his own order.
As I see it, that was His Plan before He even spoke Time into being.

"Down from His glory,
Ever living story,
My God and Savior came,
And Jesus was His name.
Born in a manger,
To His own a stranger,
A man of sorrows, tears and agony.
Refrain
O how I love Him! How I adore Him!
My breath, my sunshine, my all in all.
The great Creator became my Savior,
And all God’s fullness dwelleth in Him.

Probably not your theology , but it is mine

.

 

[amadeus]

no, but what i am saying is that our uncleanness doesn't bother God even a little; the equivalent of changing a dirty diaper, perhaps, in God's eyes. As "Who told you that you were naked?" suggests. And "God is Love" confirms, imo.

When we were still too young and still had not the means or ability to prevent making dirty diapers, then God was a good parent and did what was necessary.

But... when the child has come of age and the capabilities have been developed to do such things for himself, how much patience will God still have with us when we replace his covering with strange apparel? Man tried to cover his own nakedness when he recognized that he was naked. God gave him a better covering that would allow man to keep himself clean, but man still insisted on doing it his own way.

God knows that Jesus came and it was not for nothing even if men who know better at times act as if it were... for nothing that is.

We won't use His covering and we won't invoke the power that He gave us. So our diapers get dirty again. How many will lie there in their own feces instead of changing to God's Way? When you are 15 years old and know better, how much patience will even the best of parents have to help you clean up your mess?

 

[KBCid]

Are you laboring under the impression that God needed Christ's sacrifice in order to make you saved or acceptable to Him? Because that is a lie, ok, straight from hell and pastors. If you think you have some verse that supports this notion, then post it and let's see.

Hmmm. Who told you this? I would like to see your permit to bear the truth.

Christ's sacrifice was to inaugurate the new covenant.
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause He is the Mediator of the new testament / covenant, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were covered under the first testament, those who are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead, otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[Helen]

i guess a sacrifice was obviously needed, right, but an uncomfortable truth seems to be that it was people who needed the sacrifice, not God. dang brb

I can agree to that...yes, totally.

 

[Job]

Are you laboring under the impression that God needed Christ's sacrifice in order to make you saved or acceptable to Him? Because that is a lie, ok, straight from hell and pastors. If you think you have some verse that supports this notion, then post it and let's see.

Where are the verses that support your claim?

.