This is a new thread for this topic. I will say this up front so that I don't sneak up on anybody. I don't see why, right now, anyone believes Jesus was walking around in a spirit body. I feel that believing such is an unnecessary and unprofitable over-spiritualization of what happened. Jesus still had scars following His ressurection, and there was no physical body to be found. IE, Jesus was still in the very same body that He died in.(Red_Letters88;57629)
First of all- Both of us have taken Hebrews 13:8 out of context- As I believe it does not refer to appearances. Second, Why are you having such a difficult time with this one? Read Matthew 17 and tell me nothing dramatic happened to the Lords body.
Look, I'm going to need a specific passage and what you think is going on in Matthew 17... Jesus was transfigured *on the mountain* before Peter, James, and John. What of it?
We are talking about the Lamb of God that was slain- you CANT compare that to some ordinary sinner in the flesh. It was clear as day (choosing not to be recognized, walking through walls, just appearing out of nowhere) that this was His old body- holes, scars- Overall appearance- yet this was also a glorified body.
Why can't I can compare Him to us?Hebrews 4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.In fact, the very fact that we can relate to Jesus is what makes Him the perfect sacrfice for our sins. We both agree, He came in the flesh, just as we are in the flesh. If He didn't, then the sacrifice is moot.1 John 4:2-3Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 John 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
He could appear anywhere out of nowhere after the resurrection yet he still sat down and ate with them.
I guess I don't know what you mean He could appear anywhere out of nowhere... or how that would be more significant than His other miracles. Jesus performed many miracles while on Earth, moreso as the right time allowed and He revealed Himself as God saw fit. Jesus said that with the faith of a mustard seed, one could move a mountain into the sea. I can explain all of Jesus' miracles by the fact that He is/was the Son of God.
I never said it WASNT the same body (flesh and bone). I dont know any other way to say this- the reason the Lords body still had/ perhaps has those scars and holes- is for US. This is to show US the sacrifice that was made on our behalf. This is not just some guy crossing over after death and keeping the "effects of his death"
Well yeah, of course I agree w/ that. He wasn't just some guy... but He was the Son of God come in the flesh. I don't see the need for a belief that says Jesus was walking around in a "spirit body" after he was cruicified. I can't find that anywhere in scripture. If you can show me where it plainly states this, fine, otherwise I have no reason to believe it.
Once again- I never said he was transfigured in the tomb. I said- Read Matthew 17 and tell me what YOU think its saying/ what happened?
What I think happened was that He was transfigured before three disciples. Why did He take only three disciples? I don't know why He did that. I guess I don't know what you're getting at. We will all be changed in the *twinkling of an eye*, when we are taken to heaven. I don't know what that looks like or why Jesus did this exactly, but if you do, please explain. What do you think happened?Also, how did Jesus walk on water earlier in the Gospels before his crucifixion? Matthew 14:25 -- Was He a ghost as they supposed, or were the disciples mistaken? Walking on water certainly *seems* like something only a "ghost" could do.Furthermore still, consider the following:
First of all- Both of us have taken Hebrews 13:8 out of context- As I believe it does not refer to appearances. Second, Why are you having such a difficult time with this one? Read Matthew 17 and tell me nothing dramatic happened to the Lords body.
Look, I'm going to need a specific passage and what you think is going on in Matthew 17... Jesus was transfigured *on the mountain* before Peter, James, and John. What of it?
We are talking about the Lamb of God that was slain- you CANT compare that to some ordinary sinner in the flesh. It was clear as day (choosing not to be recognized, walking through walls, just appearing out of nowhere) that this was His old body- holes, scars- Overall appearance- yet this was also a glorified body.
Why can't I can compare Him to us?Hebrews 4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.In fact, the very fact that we can relate to Jesus is what makes Him the perfect sacrfice for our sins. We both agree, He came in the flesh, just as we are in the flesh. If He didn't, then the sacrifice is moot.1 John 4:2-3Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 John 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
He could appear anywhere out of nowhere after the resurrection yet he still sat down and ate with them.
I guess I don't know what you mean He could appear anywhere out of nowhere... or how that would be more significant than His other miracles. Jesus performed many miracles while on Earth, moreso as the right time allowed and He revealed Himself as God saw fit. Jesus said that with the faith of a mustard seed, one could move a mountain into the sea. I can explain all of Jesus' miracles by the fact that He is/was the Son of God.
I never said it WASNT the same body (flesh and bone). I dont know any other way to say this- the reason the Lords body still had/ perhaps has those scars and holes- is for US. This is to show US the sacrifice that was made on our behalf. This is not just some guy crossing over after death and keeping the "effects of his death"
Well yeah, of course I agree w/ that. He wasn't just some guy... but He was the Son of God come in the flesh. I don't see the need for a belief that says Jesus was walking around in a "spirit body" after he was cruicified. I can't find that anywhere in scripture. If you can show me where it plainly states this, fine, otherwise I have no reason to believe it.
Once again- I never said he was transfigured in the tomb. I said- Read Matthew 17 and tell me what YOU think its saying/ what happened?
What I think happened was that He was transfigured before three disciples. Why did He take only three disciples? I don't know why He did that. I guess I don't know what you're getting at. We will all be changed in the *twinkling of an eye*, when we are taken to heaven. I don't know what that looks like or why Jesus did this exactly, but if you do, please explain. What do you think happened?Also, how did Jesus walk on water earlier in the Gospels before his crucifixion? Matthew 14:25 -- Was He a ghost as they supposed, or were the disciples mistaken? Walking on water certainly *seems* like something only a "ghost" could do.Furthermore still, consider the following:
Luke 24:38-43“Why are you frightened?” he asked. “Why are your hearts filled with doubt? 39 Look at my hands. Look at my feet. You can see that it’s really me. Touch me and make sure that I am not a ghost, because ghosts don’t have bodies, as you see that I do.” 40 As he spoke, he showed them his hands and his feet.Still they stood there in disbelief, filled with joy and wonder. Then he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he ate it as they watched.
Do our spirit bodies need food? Will we need food in heaven in order to live? They watched Jesus eat... Jesus had just corrected them, He was flesh.
