Did Moses write all of the Torah (the Pentateuch)?

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Enoch111

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Ever since the unbelieving and naturalistic Higher Critics began their attacks on the Torah in the 19th century, people have been deceived into believing that Moses did not write the first five books of the Bible (the Pentateuch). Or that he wrote only some of the Torah.

The Higher Critics claimed that (1) the Torah was written long after Moses, (2) Moses was not the writer of the Torah, (3) the writers were a bunch of redactors (J,E,D,P), and (4) the Torah is a hodge-podge of human writings, not the inspired Word of God.

“THE Higher Criticism has been of late so associated with extravagant theorizing, and with insidious attacks upon the genuineness and credibility of the books of the Bible that the very term has become an offence to serious minds. It has come to be considered one of the most dangerous forms of infidelity, and in its very nature hostile to revealed truth. And it must be confessed that in the hands of those who are unfriendly to supernatural religion it has proved a potent weapon in the interest of unbelief. Nor has the use made of it by those who, while claiming to be evangelical critics, accept and defend the revolutionary conclusions of the antisupernaturalists, tended to remove the discredit into which it has fallen.”

THE HIGHER CRITICISM OF THE PENTATEUCH by William Henry Green (1895)

1. THE JEWS HAVE ALWAYS UPHELD THE MOSAIC AUTHORSHIP OF THE TORAH
Since the Jews have held (and still hold) the Torah in the highest esteem, Christians need to know and understand that they have always believed that Moses wrote the Torah in its entirety.

'Jewish tradition holds that "Moses received the Torah from Sinai," yet there is also an ancient tradition that the Torah existed in heaven not only before God revealed it to Moses, but even before the world was created... In the Bible, the Torah is referred to both as the "Torah of the Lord" and as the "Torah of Moses," and is said to be given as an inheritance to the congregation of Jacob- the Jewish people. Its purpose seems to be to make Israel "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."... It was one of the very few real dogmas of rabbinic theology that the Torah is from heaven; i.e., the Torah in its entirety was revealed by God. According to biblical stories, Moses ascended into heaven to capture the Torah from the angels....'

The Written Law - Torah

Although the Bible does not say that Moses ascended to heaven to capture the Torah, that idea actually confirms the fact that Moses received the Torah from God.

II. JESUS IS THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY FOR CHRISTIANS, AND HE SAID THAT MOSES WROTE THE TORAH
'It is universally conceded that this was the traditional opinion among the Jews. To this the New Testament bears the most abundant and explicit testimony. The Pentateuch is by our Lord called "the book of Moses" (Mark xii. 26); when it is read and preached the apostles say that Moses is read (2 Cor. iii. 15) and preached (Acts xv. 21). The Pentateuch and the books of the prophets, which were read in the worship of the synagogue, are called both by our Lord (Luke xvi. 29, 31) and the evangelists (Luke xxiv. 27), "Moses and the prophets," or "the law of Moses and the prophets" (Luke xxiv. 44; Acts xxviii. 23). Of the injunctions of the Pentateuch not only do the Jews say, when addressing our Lord, "Moses commanded (John viii. 5), but our Lord repeatedly uses the same form of speech (Mat. viii. 4; xix. 7, 8; Mark i. 44; x. 3; Luke v. 14), as testified by three of the evangelists. Of the law in general he says, “Moses gave the law” (John vii. 19), and the evangelist echoes "the law was given by Moses" (John i. 17). And that Moses was not only the author of the law, but committed its precepts to writing, is affirmed by the Jews (Mark xii. 19), and also by our Lord (Mark x. 5), who further speaks of him as writing predictions respecting himself (John v. 46, 47), and also traces a narrative in the Pentateuchal history to him (Mark xii. 26).'
THE HIGHER CRITICISM OF THE PENTATEUCH by William Henry Green (1895)

"THE BOOK OF MOSES"
And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? (Mark 12:26)

Why did Jesus say “the book of Moses” when He was quoting from Exodus 3? Because the Torah is one scroll or book which contains all five books (Genesis –Deuteronomy). And since He explicitly called it "the scroll of Moses", that should settle the matter. And Paul confirmed this understanding of the Torah as one scroll or book, as did James, and simply called it “Moses”: But even unto this day, when Moses is read [in the synagogues], the vail is upon their heart. (2 Cor 3:15)... For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:21)

“MOSES AND THE PROPHETS”
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them... And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.(Lk 16:29,31)

Here Abraham summed up the entire Tanakh (Old Testament) as “Moses and the Prophets”. He could have said “The Torah and the Prophets” but he explicitly said “Moses and the Prophets”. But Jesus used the same phrase as Abraham: And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Lk 24:27)

“THE LAW OF MOSES”
And he [the Lord Jesus Christ] said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (Lk 24:44)

While in the previous passages the entire Tanakh was summed up as “Moses and the Prophets”, on this verse the Lord gave us the exact three major divisions of the Hebrew Bible: (1) TORAH (the Law of Moses = 5 books), (2) NEVIIM (the Prophets = 8 books), and (3) KETUVIM (the Psalms or Writings = 11 books) which is a total of 24 books. Once again, the Pentateuch is simply called “the Law of Moses” since the writer was Moses.

If Christians (particularly Catholics) reject the words of Christ in this matter, they may as well reject the whole New Testament. The same applies to those who refuse to believe that Moses wrote the Torah.
 
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GodsGrace

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Jesus referred to the Torah as the Law of Moses or the book of Moses because that's how it was referred to back then.

Leaving aside that it's written in the 3rd person...this could be acceptable...
how do you explain that Moses spoke of his own death?
Deuteronomy 34:5-7
5So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
6And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day.
7Although Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died, his eye was not dim, nor his vigor abated.
 
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Windmillcharge

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Well prof robert dick Wilson believed based on a life time of studing the languages used in writing the bible that Moses did write the Pentatuech.
 

Enoch111

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Jesus referred to the Torah as the Law of Moses or the book of Moses because that's how it was referred to back then.
You still don't get it. Jesus was establishing the truth that Moses was indeed the writer of the whole Torah. Jesus is God, not mere man going along with the traditions of men. It was Jesus who gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Sinai and appeared to him there.
Leaving aside that it's written in the 3rd person...this could be acceptable... how do you explain that Moses spoke of his own death?
It was written in the third person because that is how God inspired Moses to write. And just as Christ prophesied of His own death, burial, and resurrection, Moses wrote prophetically of his own death.
 

Enoch111

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Well prof robert dick Wilson believed based on a life time of studing the languages used in writing the bible that Moses did write the Pentatuech.
True. But what we need to see is that the Lord Jesus Christ confirmed the authorship of the Torah personally. That is critical.
 

GodsGrace

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You still don't get it. Jesus was establishing the truth that Moses was indeed the writer of the whole Torah. Jesus is God, not mere man going along with the traditions of men. It was Jesus who gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Sinai and appeared to him there.

It was written in the third person because that is how God inspired Moses to write. And just as Christ prophesied of His own death, burial, and resurrection, Moses wrote prophetically of his own death.
Maybe I get it.
Maybe I don't agree with you.
I agree with what you state 95% of the time.
I know Moses was given the 10 commandments on Mt Sinai..
I'm saying that Moses did not write all of the Torah...

Jesus prophesied His own death.
He didn't write about his burial.

Moses spoke about when he was buried...you don't find this odd?

And who's this guy you write about, Dick Wilson?
Do you know how many biblical scholars are certain that Moses did not write all 5 books.

Does this intimidate you or scare you somehow?
Does it take away ones' faith to believe that Moses did not write some of the paragraphs in the Torah?

Do you think God wrote the following?

Leviticus 1:15, 17
L 4:6, 7, 9, 10
L 4:27 I thought we were not held responsible for sins we are unaware of...
L 5:2 In the N.T. we're told we can eat anything. Has God changed His mind?
L 7:22 25 Eat the fat of an animal and you'll be cut off from the people.
L 10:6-9 Can't drink wine or one might die.
L 11 Again, clean and unclean foods.. Directly opposes what Jesus taught.
L 12 People become unclean? Doesn't God LOVE His creation?
L 13:45 A leper has to scream, unclean, unclean!
L 19:28 Are these persons not saved? Has God changed?

There's just too much. I don't have time for this list.
Leviticus and Deuteronomy are full of strange rules.
If God wrote them,,,then Hes' changed His mind and those who claim we are not required to obey God turn out to be right.
 
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Enoch111

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Maybe I get it.
You still don't get it and probably never will.

You are sitting in judgment on the written Word of God. And I don't believe you really understand what the Old Covenant was all about. You claimed that Jesus was *correcting* the Torah when He is the one who gave the Torah to Moses and Israel! Does God need to *correct* Himself? If so, we are of all men most miserable. Even the Muslims don't question the Quran as some Christians question the Bible.
 

GodsGrace

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You still don't get it and probably never will.

You are sitting in judgment on the written Word of God. And I don't believe you really understand what the Old Covenant was all about. You claimed that Jesus was *correcting* the Torah when He is the one who gave the Torah to Moses and Israel! Does God need to *correct* Himself? If so, we are of all men most miserable. Even the Muslims don't question the Quran as some Christians question the Bible.
You know Enoch,,,I respect you, but you are very insulting sometimes.
Like now.

Because I don't agree with you does not mean I DON'T GET IT.

I get it just fine.
It bothers some to hear that there are errors in the bible.

Why did the persons of the O.T. even offer sacrifices if God said a few times that He does not WANT sacrifices?

Why was the Mosaic covenant even made,,,and it's CONDITIONAL, If God is God and He must have known the people would not be able to keep their side of it.
Or did He not know?

Was the sermon on the mount spoken on a mount? Matthew.
Or on the plain? Luke.

Is it offensive to you that Mathew and Luke do not agree?
In Mathew it's one long discourse.
Luke breaks it up.
Which is it?

Maybe some here don't get it and should.
Maybe some base their faith on a book instead of on a person.

My faith is based on Jesus.
 
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GodsGrace

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You still don't get it and probably never will.

You are sitting in judgment on the written Word of God. And I don't believe you really understand what the Old Covenant was all about. You claimed that Jesus was *correcting* the Torah when He is the one who gave the Torah to Moses and Israel! Does God need to *correct* Himself? If so, we are of all men most miserable. Even the Muslims don't question the Quran as some Christians question the Bible.
And you're doing what some do that cannot answer.
You tell me I DON'T GET IT
instead of replying to my post.

If you think God wrote those rules...you're believing in a rather small God.
 
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Windmillcharge

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Maybe I get it.
Maybe I don't agree with you.
I agree with what you state 95% of the time.
I know Moses was given the 10 commandments on Mt Sinai..
I'm saying that Moses did not write all of the Torah...

Jesus prophesied His own death.
He didn't write about his burial.

Moses spoke about when he was buried...you don't find this odd?

And who's this guy you write about, Dick Wilson?
Do you know how many biblical scholars are certain that Moses did not write all 5 books.

Does this intimidate you or scare you somehow?
Does it take away ones' faith to believe that Moses did not write some of the paragraphs in the Torah?

Do you think God wrote the following?

Leviticus 1:15, 17
L 4:6, 7, 9, 10
L 4:27 I thought we were not held responsible for sins we are unaware of...
L 5:2 In the N.T. we're told we can eat anything. Has God changed His mind?
L 7:22 25 Eat the fat of an animal and you'll be cut off from the people.
L 10:6-9 Can't drink wine or one might die.
L 11 Again, clean and unclean foods.. Directly opposes what Jesus taught.
L 12 People become unclean? Doesn't God LOVE His creation?
L 13:45 A leper has to scream, unclean, unclean!
L 19:28 Are these persons not saved? Has God changed?

There's just too much. I don't have time for this list.
Leviticus and Deuteronomy are full of strange rules.
If God wrote them,,,then Hes' changed His mind and those who claim we are not required to obey God turn out to be right.

To find out about Dick Wilson use google.

As for the examples you give they set out very clearly how God wanted his people to live.
It might surprise you to learn that Jesus lived under and obeyed the rules you are questioning.

Salvation in the OT involved being obedient to the rules and regulation God had ordained.

Jesus by fulfilling the requirments of the ceremonial and sacrifical requirements of the law dis away with them.
However the 10 commandments as they teach us about sin are still in force.
 

GodsGrace

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To find out about Dick Wilson use google.

As for the examples you give they set out very clearly how God wanted his people to live.
It might surprise you to learn that Jesus lived under and obeyed the rules you are questioning.

Salvation in the OT involved being obedient to the rules and regulation God had ordained.

Jesus by fulfilling the requirments of the ceremonial and sacrifical requirements of the law dis away with them.
However the 10 commandments as they teach us about sin are still in force.
Jesus lived under the 613 commandments?
This is why he ate from the fields of wheat on the Sabbath which was considered a work?
This is why He would save an animal on the Sabbath?
Heal a person on the Sabbath?
He told the Samaritan woman that one day God would be worshipped on EVERY mountain.
Jesus changed the idea of divorce back to how God had meant it from the beginning....God did NOT change the law of marriage...MAN did (Moses).

Jesus was obedient to the 10 commandments, which you've correctly stated are still in force, but not the civil and ceremonial laws.

It's common knowledge that Moses did not write the Torah
and it's common knowledge that God did not write the Torah.
God INSPIRED a lot of it.

A person could take it or leave it...it has nothing to do with one's salvation or their belief in God.

I was reading judges just this morning.
It's interesting that God would annihalate an entire group of persons to make way for His chosen Hebrews. I thought God was against murder.
 

dorian37grey

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It's interesting that God would annihalate an entire group of persons to make way for His chosen Hebrews. I thought God was against murder

we have to look at the goal ; and that is providing a way of salvation for mankind
*** if a man seeks to stop this ; should it be allowed ?
does being "nice" to some wayward person or race at the cost of salvation for all of mankind accomplish the goal?
that is ; a way of salvation for mankind

lets look ; if SAUL had killed David --- would that have foiled how we are saved ?
answer Yes --- David was part of the plan
but poor Saul --right * is it better not to hurt Saul's feelings a the cost of salvation to providing a way of salvation for mankind ?

the verse: my way are not your ways ( and thank God for this) is why salvation is possible
he knows ; what it will take ; mankind can't do it without his plan
irregardless of what we think is right or wrong
 

GodsGrace

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we have to look at the goal ; and that is providing a way of salvation for mankind
*** if a man seeks to stop this ; should it be allowed ?
does being "nice" to some wayward person or race at the cost of salvation for all of mankind accomplish the goal?
that is ; a way of salvation for mankind

lets look ; if SAUL had killed David --- would that have foiled how we are saved ?
answer Yes --- David was part of the plan
but poor Saul --right * is it better not to hurt Saul's feelings a the cost of salvation to providing a way of salvation for mankind ?

the verse: my way are not your ways ( and thank God for this) is why salvation is possible
he knows ; what it will take ; mankind can't do it without his plan
irregardless of what we think is right or wrong
If we can't trust God to keep His own commandments...
who can we trust?

Have you ever considered the the revelation of God was not complete in the O.T.?
Do you realize that it took place 4,000 years ago? When the rest of the "world" was practicing pantheism?

Your explanation will not be accepted by biblical scholars and they know a lot more than we do.

However you can believe what you will,,,this has nothing to do with soteriology.
 

dorian37grey

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if we can't trust God >>>>> there is no other way of salvation
revelation not complete >>>> of course not ABRAHAM didnt know the law MOSES didnt know the kinsman redeemer RUTH didnt know kings DAVID didnt know how his kingship would progress *** Jesus is the revelation of God
but; Jesus as the son of man address each of these issues brought out in order in the hebrew story
{ not in any other race of people } thus ; the purpose of way they are the chosen people ---- chosen to have this story and Jesus come through them
Your explanation will not be accepted by biblical scholars and they know a lot more than we do.

H

that is a general statement ;
and matters little ;
the bible presents its story ; and men discuss it ( but men are men and not God )
the bible story remains and we search it out
dont think your favorite bible scholar is right just because you like him :)
bring out the issue ; and lets talk ---- its kinda what man does :)

just remember; God"s goal --- provide a way of salvation for mankind
understanding the how of it --answers most of these questions
 

GodsGrace

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if we can't trust God >>>>> there is no other way of salvation
revelation not complete >>>> of course not ABRAHAM didnt know the law MOSES didnt know the kinsman redeemer RUTH didnt know kings DAVID didnt know how his kingship would progress *** Jesus is the revelation of God
but; Jesus as the son of man address each of these issues brought out in order in the hebrew story
{ not in any other race of people } thus ; the purpose of way they are the chosen people ---- chosen to have this story and Jesus come through them


that is a general statement ;
and matters little ;
the bible presents its story ; and men discuss it ( but men are men and not God )
the bible story remains and we search it out
dont think your favorite bible scholar is right just because you like him :)
bring out the issue ; and lets talk ---- its kinda what man does :)

just remember; God"s goal --- provide a way of salvation for mankind
understanding the how of it --answers most of these questions
Actually, I don't have a favorite bible scholar.
I believe in God's salvation economy. I have no problem with that.
The O.T. people had faith in God,,,just like we do.

I guess what I'm saying is that I have faith in GOD...
some people think the bible is GOD...it's a book inspired by God..
God didn't sit at His computer and write it.

Do you think God WROTE the O.T.?
Did you know that hell did not exist in the O.T.?
Did you know that the concept of satan as we know him did not exist?
satan was known as the adversary --- just someone who is against mankind.
Other stuff like this...I really don't care to talk about it much.
 

Enoch111

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Do you think God WROTE the O.T.?
The correct question would have been "Did God INSPIRE both the OT and NT writers to write exactly what they wrote in Hebrew and Greek?" and the answer is a RESOUNDING YES. See 2 Tim 2:16,17.
Did you know that hell did not exist in the O.T.?
Once again, the correct question is "Did the OT provide a full revelation of eternal Hell (the Lake of Fire)? And the answers "We need the entire Bible to establish any doctrine".
Did you know that the concept of satan as we know him did not exist?
NOW THIS IS TOTAL BALONEY.
satan was known as the adversary --- just someone who is against mankind.
Since the OT clearly shows the enmity of Satan against God, he is shown as BOTH the enemy of God and mankind in the OT.
 

Windmillcharge

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Jesus lived under the 613 commandments?
This is why he ate from the fields of wheat on the Sabbath which was considered a work?
This is why He would save an animal on the Sabbath?
Heal a person on the Sabbath?
He told the Samaritan woman that one day God would be worshipped on EVERY mountain.
Jesus changed the idea of divorce back to how God had meant it from the beginning....God did NOT change the law of marriage...MAN did (Moses).

Jesus was obedient to the 10 commandments, which you've correctly stated are still in force, but not the civil and ceremonial laws.

It's common knowledge that Moses did not write the Torah
and it's common knowledge that God did not write the Torah.
God INSPIRED a lot of it.

A person could take it or leave it...it has nothing to do with one's salvation or their belief in God.

I was reading judges just this morning.
It's interesting that God would annihalate an entire group of persons to make way for His chosen Hebrews. I thought God was against murder.

The pentetuch are the books ascribed to Moses and analysis of the language shows many Egyptian words indicating that the author was influenced by Egyptian culture.

When I have to concider 'common knowledge against the work of the expert in a field I chose the expert .

Jesus and the cerimonial laws, had you read the passagees you would have seen Jesus's answer. The sabeth was made for man not man made for the sabeth.
Healing, Jesus challenged them was it lawful to do good on the sabeth and they did not answer.
Under the law it was lawful to do good, to bind up a wound, set a broken leg etc

Murder, emotional l;anguage from one who knows nothing about the law.
Those who break Gods law, every sin gle living person is under Gods judgement, if they do not repent they will die spiritually.
Ggod warned the people in cannan, have you read about the spies and the harlot who hid them .
She told the spies that the people knew the Isrealites were coming, how God was with them and how they had dealt with other people groups. They were terified, yet did nothing.

Who then is at fault? Why do you blame God when people know judgement is coming and they cannot stop it?
 

GodsGrace

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The correct question would have been "Did God INSPIRE both the OT and NT writers to write exactly what they wrote in Hebrew and Greek?" and the answer is a RESOUNDING YES. See 2 Tim 2:16,17.
I SAID God INSPIRED the O.T.
But to write EXACTLY what they wrote?
No. I don't believe that.
Do you know what inspired means?
Many authors are inspired to write a book about something.
That SOMETHING does not write the book,,,the author does.

Here is what inspire means:
1. To animate the mind or emotions.
2. To stimulate and influence.
3. To elicite, create.

Men, compelled by the Holy Spirit have spoken under God's influence.
2 Peter 1.21

Jesus taught:
David Himself, inspired by the Holy Spirit, said "The Lord said to my Lord...
Mark 12:36

Once again, the correct question is "Did the OT provide a full revelation of eternal Hell (the Lake of Fire)?
And the answers "We need the entire Bible to establish any doctrine".
Agreed.

NOW THIS IS TOTAL BALONEY.
That's very nice of you.
You can believe what you will.
Perhaps you could find some doctrinal writing in the O.T. regarding satan?

The following link will be interesting for anyone that wants to learn how the idea of satan as a being is developed.

Do Jews Believe in Satan? | My Jewish Learning

Since the OT clearly shows the enmity of Satan against God, he is shown as BOTH the enemy of God and mankind in the OT.
Sure. We all know Genesis 3:15
In the O.T. he is known as the adversary....some force that opposes God.
In the N.T. he is developed into an actual being and not just the idea of evil.
 

GodsGrace

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The pentetuch are the books ascribed to Moses and analysis of the language shows many Egyptian words indicating that the author was influenced by Egyptian culture.

When I have to concider 'common knowledge against the work of the expert in a field I chose the expert .

Jesus and the cerimonial laws, had you read the passagees you would have seen Jesus's answer. The sabeth was made for man not man made for the sabeth.
Healing, Jesus challenged them was it lawful to do good on the sabeth and they did not answer.
Under the law it was lawful to do good, to bind up a wound, set a broken leg etc

Murder, emotional l;anguage from one who knows nothing about the law.
Those who break Gods law, every sin gle living person is under Gods judgement, if they do not repent they will die spiritually.
Ggod warned the people in cannan, have you read about the spies and the harlot who hid them .
She told the spies that the people knew the Isrealites were coming, how God was with them and how they had dealt with other people groups. They were terified, yet did nothing.

Who then is at fault? Why do you blame God when people know judgement is coming and they cannot stop it?
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
WHEN did I ever blame God for anything?
I truly am at a loss to know of what you're speaking.
If you care to post DIRECT QUOTES of mine with post numbers...
otherwise I'd ask everyone reading to please ignore everything you've stated
since it is NOT a proper representation of what I believe.
 

Enoch111

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2. To stimulate and influence.
There you have it. Except the influence of the Holy Spirit was such that EVERY WORD was both a word of God and the word of the writer. The human writers did not put their own musings into Scripture.

It is quite evident that you do not really understand the doctrine of the divine inspiration of the Bible. Hence all your reservations about the Torah. So you should search the Scriptures to understand that every word in the original manuscripts was GOD-BREATHED (2 Tim 3:16), and because of the doctrine of the divine preservation of the Scripture (through a multitude of manuscripts) what we have in the King James Bible is the Word of God (excepting the italicised words).