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Featured Did The Bible Or The Papacy Transfer The Sabbath Rest To Sunday?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Phoneman777, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Our papal apologist friend Bread Of Life has insisted that the papacy finds Biblical support for it having "changed" the Biblical Sabbath from the 7th day of the week to the 1st day of the week.

    Notice that the following statement regarding the authenticity of Sunday sacredness contains no references to any Biblical texts supporting a change in Sabbath sacredness, but only to that of the presumed authority of the church:

    "Sunday – fulfillment of the Sabbath. Sunday is expressly distinguished from the Sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the Sabbath...

    "The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ...

    "In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church’s holy days as legal holidays."
    -- The Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 2, Article 3 (1994)

    Here is another which claims the change was the doing of the Roman Catholic Church alone:

    "But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." -- Cardinal James Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (Ayers Publishing, 1978): 108​

    Catholicism agrees that the Sabbath is exactly what the Bible claims it is - the 7th day of the week - and that the change was theirs, not God's:

    Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
    A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
    Q. Why Do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
    A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
    -- The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, 1957
    Catholicism claims that it - not Scripture - is responsible for the change by its presumed authority:

    Question: Have you any other way of proving the Church has power to institute festivals of precept (change the Sabbath)?

    Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her, she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the 1st day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the 7th day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
    -- Stephen Keenan, Catholic—Doctrinal Catechism 3rd Edition: 174​

    This statement speaks to Protestants everywhere about which day they should be observing as a day of rest and communion with God:

    "If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day by God is Saturday. In keeping the Sunday, they are following a law of the Catholic Church." -- Chancellor Albert Smith for Cardinal of Baltimore Archdiocese, letter dated February 10, 1920

    Further statements offering indisputable clarity on this issue make absolutely clear to us what the official papal position is, which should leave no question as to what that is, and any papist - the presence of which should immediately cause suspicion - who enters CB and attempts to teach otherwise should stand exposed as a fraud (or a Jesuit, the order of whom swears that deceit is not only acceptable, but commendable, in the advancement in the cause of the papacy, which is the destruction of Protestantism).


    [​IMG]
    The Faith of Millions, John O'brien: 472-473


    "Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope." -- Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950): ​


    "Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church." -- Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day, Louis Gaston Segur (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213​

    "The Catholic Church, for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday...

    "The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation, "Seventh-day Adventists."
    -- The Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1893​

    "It was the holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday, the 1st day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodicea, AD 364, anathematized those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema." -- Catholic Priest T. Enright, CSSR, Kansas City, MO​

    If the papacy believes all these statements are heretical, why weren't any of these men burned at the stake or beheaded - as was the fate of so many "heretic" Protestants?

    "I have repeatedly offered $1000 to any one who can furnish any proof from the Bible that Sunday is the day we are bound to keep...The Bible says, “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy,” but the Catholic Church says, “No, keep the first day of the week,” and the whole world bows in obedience." -- Catholic Priest T. Enright, CSSR, lecture at Hartford, KS, Feb 18, 1884​


    "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons…are all of pagan origin and sanctified by their adoption into the Church." -- Cardinal John Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, (London: Basil Montague Pickering, 1878): 373​

    "The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of the Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." -- Catholic Record (September 1, 1923)​

    "Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act…And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." -- Letter from C.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons on October 28, 1895​


    "Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church." -- American Catholic Quarterly Review (January 1883)


    "Sunday...It is a law of the Catholic Church alone..." -- Catholic American Sentinel (June 1893)​
     
  2. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the very early Christians moved it to Sunday because they shared synagogues with Jews. But the Jews used them on Saturday so they were not available to them.
     
  3. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    I believe that Heb. 4 shows us that every day is now the Sabbath as we rest in Christ's finished work on a daily basis. The "Sabbath" was a type for the reality.
     
  4. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    A daily basis and even moment by moment. Amen! We need never speak our own words or do our own deeds again.
     
  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Well for once our papal apologist is correct. The first day of the week became the Christian sabbath while the apostles were alive, also called the Lord's Day in Revelation.
     
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  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    We pick one or more days as our personal Sabbath. There is no collective Sabbath. No collective holy days.
     
  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    And the reason was simple. The Christians met in synagogues. But the Jews use the synagogues on Saturday for Judaism.

    No altar or symbols.

    The early Christians wore the symbol of the fish, meaning fisher of men, to identify themselves to other Christians. Not as something holy or sacred.
     
  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I read somewhere that the church met on the first day...saturday evening with the Jewish believers. Then, the next morning the church would come back together in order to break bread. So there were 2 meetings. Over time, the saturday meeting was eliminated in favour of just the sunday morning meeting.

    So what was eliminated were the deeper things...spiritual gifts, deeper teachings...the mature stuff. These were a part of the evening meeting.
     
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  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Since the apostle Paul was trying to eliminate this type of thinking, how credible is this story?
     
  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the thread title again Catholicism did not move they worship to Sunday. Why? Because it didn't exist then.
     
  11. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    The early Christians moved NOTHING. Yes, there is historical evidence that some Christians kept Sunday along with Sabbath in many places (as a memorial to the resurrection; because of political expediency, etc. but such was based on man's choice, NOT God's Word), but Sabbath keeping was eventually outlawed in every place that the evil papacy established dominion - because the Sabbath points to the Creator but the papacy prefers Sunday which points to the Sun god - Satan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  12. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 4:9 plainly says that if a believer is resting in Christ, that believer will demonstrate that inward rest by resting outwardly from his work just as God rested from His work: on the Sabbath.
     
  13. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    He is not correct. There isn't a single Bible text which makes Sunday sacred, nor is there a text that makes Sunday "the Lord's day". However, here are two texts which clearly reveal which day the Lord claims as His special day:

    1) "If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day..." - Isaiah 58:13

    2) "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." - Mark 2:27-28
     
  14. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    That verse is speaking of the eternal rest we have to look forward to.
     
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  15. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    You are speaking to a seventh day adventist who is defending his religion at any cost, as someone put it. Nothing to do with what Christ has required of us.
     
  16. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Then why is "rest" and "ceased from his own works" in the present perfect tense in both cases -- and not future as you suggest?

    Case one: "...he that has entered..."
    Case two: "...he has ceased..."

    And I thought all that conjugation stuff in 10th grade English was a waste of time...
     
  17. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    vs. 11 explains it.
     
  18. Jun2u

    Jun2u Active Member

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    It is a common belief that the RCC changed the worship service from the seventh-day worship to the first day of the week. THAT IS NOT TRUE! God Himself changed the date.

    It cannot be seen in the English Bible translations and why God allowed the miss-translation is beyond me. Perhaps to foster unbelief?

    Matthew 28:1 reads: “In the end of the Sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week...”

    This first half of Matthew 28:1 is what we’ll focus upon.

    The word Sabbath in Greek is the plural word “sabaton” and note the word “week” is also the identical plural Greek word “sabaton.” The word “week” is singular and contrary to the plural Greek word: sabaton.” This is proven by checking the Greek.

    Anytime we see an italicized word in the KJV, as in the word “day” the translators are warning the reader that that word is NOT in the original manuscripts.

    The phrase “in the end of the Sabbaths mean: an era of Sabbaths (Seventh Day Sabbath) is coming to an end, and the phrase “as it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths" mean: a new era of Sabbaths, (Sunday Sabbaths), “in which the first of many Sabbaths is coming.”

    Note: even in death God rested on the Seventh Day Sabbath as He lay in the tomb, which BTW, was a Saturday day (a day of rest)!

    Let us now put together the first half of Matthew 28:1 and see how it should read: “In the end of the Sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths...” (underlined words for emphasis). We see now the first part of the passage makes sense.

    The nature of the Seventh Day Sabbath was not to do any kind of work. By contrast, the Sunday Sabbath is to do work. "Spiritual work" that is. As God declared in Isaiah 58:13-14!

    The work we are to do is: study the Bible, write letters to love ones about the Gospel, visit hospitals or prisons to share Gospel, attend service at church, give our tithes, and so forth.

    Some Christians go to ball games, picnics, movies, or play sports on Sundays after worship, and these activities are against Isaiah 58:13-14.

    There are aspects of salvation that can be seen in both the Saturday and Sunday Sabbaths of the Lord. I hope and pray this will be realized in this thread.

    continue to page 2
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  19. Jun2u

    Jun2u Active Member

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    Page 2

    Mark 16;1-2 reads:
    1 “And when the sabbath (Saturday Sabbath) was past...”
    2 “And very early in the morning the first day of the week or “the first of the Sabbaths...”

    Mark 16:9
    “Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week or “first of the Sabbaths...”

    Luke 24:1
    “Now upon the first of the Sabbaths, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre...”

    John 20:1
    The first day of the week or the first of the Sabbaths” cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre...”

    The above Scriptures are self-explanatory as explained in the first page.

    But…

    Already, the apostles began to observe the worship service on the first day of the week!

    Acts 20:7
    “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them... “

    1 Corinthians 16:2
    “Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him...”

    Today the worship service has not changed, and the breaking of bread (communion), and the preaching of the Gospel, and bringing in our tithes are still prevalent.

    I hope and pray the contents of this OP is understood.

    To God Be The Glory
     
  20. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    That's not a future object - it's a present state of mind Paul is exhorting us to obtain/retain.
     
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