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Divine Council

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by jaybird, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. jaybird

    jaybird Active Member

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    Psalm 82
    A Psalm of Asaph.

    82
    God has taken his place in the divine council;
    in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

    2“How long will you judge unjustly
    and show partiality to the wicked? Selah

    3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
    maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.

    4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
    deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”

    5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
    they walk about in darkness;
    all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

    6 I said, “You are gods,
    sons of the Most High, all of you;

    7 nevertheless, like men you shall die,
    and fall like any prince.”

    8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
    for you shall inherit all the nations!


    What is this Divine counsel? Where does it take place, whats its purpose and is it still here today?
    This thread is not so much about who are the gods but what is the council? However feel free to derail if you like.
     
  2. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    Romans 11:29 KJVS
    For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

    1 John 2:27 KJVS
    But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

    Romans 8:14 KJVS
    For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Active Member

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    First of all, we need to read what the verse says:

    Psalm 82
    A psalm of Asaph.


    1 God presides in the great assembly;
    he renders judgment among the “gods”:

    2 “How long will youa]">[a] defend the unjust
    and show partiality to the wicked?b]">[b]
    3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
    uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
    4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
    deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

    5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
    They walk about in darkness;
    all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

    6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
    you are all sons of the Most High.’
    7 But you will die like mere mortals;
    you will fall like every other ruler.”

    8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
    for all the nations are your inheritance.

    Assembly, not council.

    https://www.quora.com/Does-Psalm-81...at-the-Bible-acknowledges-other-divine-beings
     
  4. jaybird

    jaybird Active Member

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    ESV has council but if it helps you call it an assembly.
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Active Member

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    I was an elected councilman and mayor. We held assemblies.

    So I see a very vast difference between saying council and assembly.

    Gatherings in OT Israel are called assemblies, not councils.

    So I think the difference is important
     
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This is one of the trickiest verse in the Bible, because there are words here which can be translated in a number of ways. I believe the King James Bible has translated this as it should be translated, since it is speaking about the judges of Israel, and how they have failed to fulfil their responsibilities.

    King James Bible A Psalm of Asaph.
    God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

    "The congregation of the mighty" is translated from the Hebrew baadat-el, and el can be translated as "God" or as "the divine" or as "the mighty". The plural of el is elohim, which can be translated as "God", or "gods" or "the mighty [ones]". Elohim in this psalm is used for both God (v 1) and the Hebrew judges -- the mighty ones (verses 1 and 6).

    So the translation you have used is quite misleading.
    The Hebrew judges were not a part of the *divine council*, but God has spoken to the judges of Israel ("gods" because they represent God on earth by making judgments on behalf of God") in this Psalm, and condemned them.

    These wicked judges had not defended the poor and the fatherless, and they had not administered justice for the afflicted and needed. Instead they had "walked in darkness" (done evil deeds).
    "Ye shall die like men" really means "Ye shall die like sinners condemned to Hell".
     
  7. jaybird

    jaybird Active Member

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    the inter has - in the congregation of el.
    the Most High is there.
    these two facts would make it IMO a divine council. i think the ESV is pretty spot on other than they use council rather than assembly.
    i agree that Hebrew judges of this would would not be in an assembly of the Most High.


    die like sinners/die like men, either way, did they forget they were mortal men?
    are sons of the Most High mortal?
     
    bbyrd009 likes this.
  8. jaybird

    jaybird Active Member

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    i wasnt sure on the translated Hebrew, this is what i found in the three times its used in Psalm 82 and 89. three times, three different words.

    Psalm 89 5 - 7
    5 Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord,
    your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!
    6For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
    Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,
    7 a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones,
    and awesome above all who are around him?

    bold 1
    6951. qahal
    Strong's Concordance
    qahal: assembly, convocation, congregation
    Original Word: קָהָל
    Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    Transliteration: qahal
    Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-hawl')
    Definition: assembly, convocation, congregation

    bold 2
    5475. sod
    Strong's Concordance
    sod: council, counsel
    Original Word: סוֹד
    Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    Transliteration: sod
    Phonetic Spelling: (sode)
    Definition: council, counsel

    Psalm 82
    5712. edah
    Strong's Concordance
    edah: congregation
    Original Word: עֵדָה
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: edah
    Phonetic Spelling: (ay-daw')
    Definition: congregation
     
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