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Do we, the body of Christ, die in our sins?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by VictoryinJesus, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Do we, the body of Christ, die in our sins? When we seek Him, do we find Him? Before you answer immediately...consider. John 16:7-14 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [8] And when he is come, (when the comforter comes)he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [9] Of sin, because they believe not on me; [10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. [12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he (the comforter)will shew you things to come. [14] He (the comforter) shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.... “the comforter will come and receive of mine.”

    John 16:19
    [19] Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

    John 16:22-24
    [22] And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. [23] And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. [24] Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

    John 13:33-38
    [33] Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. [34] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. [35] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. [36] Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. [37] Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake. [38] Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

    John 8:21-22
    [21] Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. [22] Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

    John 7:33-36
    [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. [34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me : and where I am, thither ye cannot come. [35] Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? [36] What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me : and where I am, thither ye cannot come?

    Jeremiah 29:11-13
    [11] For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord , thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. [12] Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. [13] And ye shall seek me, and find me , when ye shall search for me with all your heart. (Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.)

    Proverbs 8:17-18
    [17] I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. [18] Riches and honour are with me; yea , durable riches and righteousness.

    John 14:17-18
    [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. (Dwelleth)

    John 14:19
    [19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. — (Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?)(John 16:19)

    John 14:3-4
    [3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. [4] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
     
  2. charity

    charity Active Member

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    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    The simple answer to your question, 'Do we, the Body of Christ, die in our sins?' is, 'No'. For the members of the Body of Christ died with Christ, were buried with, and quickened into life with Christ, are raised with, and have ascended with Christ to God's right hand. Now we look for His appearing, when we will appear with Him in glory.

    It is a finished work: our sins are forgiven and we are redeemed, have been given the spirit of Sonship, and declared to be holy and without blame, accepted in the Beloved, and therefore complete in Him. That is our standing, in the faith of Christ Himself, before God the Father, in spirit.

    We are to live within that 'reckoning' of God by faith, and rejoice in the wondrous grace, and sacrificial love of the One Who accomplished this for us. Which is God Himself - in Christ Jesus - His own beloved Son.

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  3. charity

    charity Active Member

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    Hello @VictoryinJesus,

    The more complex response to your question, in regard to the references you have given, is a matter of rightly dividing the Word of God, and acknowledging the point at which the knowledge of the mystery concerning Christ as Head of the Church of the One Body was first divinely revealed, and to whom, and in what Scriptures it was, therefore, subsequently made known. For prior to that revelation it was 'hid in God', therefore not the subject of those epistles, or Scriptures, written before it.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  4. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    See, here I still disagree but that is okay. We surely do not have to agree on all. “...therefore not the subject...” “...hidden in God.” Just because it(the body) was hidden in God and revealed (manifested) at a set time ...doesn’t mean it wasn’t the subject before...only that it was not seen but rather hidden in plain sight. We are “hidden” in Christ. Christ was hidden in the OT and manifested in end times that we might believe on Him...but now, do you not see He was (and IS) the subject of the scriptures (OT and NT) from the beginning. From the beginning we have been with Him...how could we not be the subject? Anywhere God speaks to a child and they hear Him...they are the subject of God’s Love. You can’t draw a line and say everything before this verse has nothing to do with us.

    An example would be: Malachi 3:11-12
    [11] And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine (Christ)cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts. [12] And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

    — many say the fruit is money. “God will rebuke the devourer from destroying your increase.” But it becomes Spiritual and “blessed” are those born of God from above: the poor in spirit, the meek...theirs is the Kingdom of heaven. The devourer is not after their money but after the increase of the (spiritual)fruit. To me this is an intimate verse where God promises He will rebuke the devourer and not allow him to destroy(consume) the fruits of the Spirit and His(God’s) increase before it is time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    While it is possible not to yield to the flesh and sin, it is not possible to be sinless until God cleanses our bodies in the grave, and resurrects them new and glorified to be reunited with our glorified spirits in heaven on the last day.
     
  6. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    '
    Q " Do we, the Body of Christ, die in our sins?"

    A = NO!!! :)
     
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