Do you believe biblically today, we should cause division?

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MatthewG

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In Luke 12:51, John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19, 1 Corinthinans 12:25;

All of these passages have something to deal with division.

The first one is Jesus stating: Luk_12:51 'Think ye that peace I came to give in the earth? no, I say to you, but rather division;

Now many attribute the use of earth here by Jesus; as in He was suggesting do you believe I have came to give peace in the earth. In which people can use this scripture to say. Look Jesus Christ did not bring peace peace to earth.

If you go do a word study on this word it's ge' (g1093), and it has 5 definitions to choose from.

The one that I will choose to use here that I believe best fits this scripture, is a country, a land, a territory and that will be in the land, country, and territory in Jerusalem.

Therefore it would read out that Think you that peace I cam to give in the country or land of Israel? No, I say to you rather division.

Why? Jesus Christ was a rock of offense to many of the Jewish brothers of his that looked down on and hated him. Jesus had come forth bring forth a division in which pertained in my own understanding a division between a people who were not of God; though they professed and had a zeal for God, and a division between a people who were true believers of God and that they were written before the foundation of the world into the Lambs Book of Life.

There would be a division that would arise because of Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus bring peace? He most certainly did, in Romans 5:1, Philippians 4:5-8, you can read in how that we can have peace with God as believers.

Though unbelievers will not have peace, because they have made the choice not to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

They may be constantly always trying to chase other things rather than seeking after God, having yet to be born again.

You have many more instants of this case: John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19. These were all division amongst that Jewish people, who were no believers in Christ and rejected him.

1 Corinthians 12:25 is different though: It is a message to believers to let their be no division among yourself and other believers (Paul mentions in 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 how believers are to examine themselves individually if they are in the faith or not).

Therefore as Christians are we meant to now today cause division among other individuals or are we to try and have love for God, and love for others as we traverse in this life day by day, trying to die daily and live by the spirit to have compassion, mercy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, gentleness, that is all spirit lead in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ having peace with God?
 
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amadeus

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@MatthewG
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" Rom 16:17
 
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MatthewG

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The division between Christians and the world comes as a consequence of following Christ. I don't see division for the sake of division as being desirable.

Hello Iforrest,

Your comment reminds me of the flesh vs spirit contrast. I agree with you, as division from the sake of inner greed, envy, hatred, is not a healthy thing to go on in the flesh compared to the like of forgiveness, mercy, peace, kindness, gentleness and these like things that come from being in spirit following Christ Jesus.

@MatthewG
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" Rom 16:17

You remind me of these scriptures Amadeus, I cut a few verses out.


“And I, having come unto you, brethren, came — not in superiority of discourse or wisdom — declaring to you the testimony of God, for I decided not to know any thing among you, except Jesus Christ, and him crucified; and I, in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling, was with you; and my word and my preaching was not in persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power — that your faith may not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

And wisdom we speak among the perfect, and wisdom not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age — of those becoming useless, And we the spirit of the world did not receive, but the Spirit that [is] of God,

that we may know the things conferred by God on us, which things also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Holy Spirit, with spiritual things spiritual things comparing,

and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know [them], because spiritually they are discerned; and he who is spiritual, doth discern indeed all things, and he himself is by no one discerned; for who did know the mind of the Lord that he shall instruct Him? and we — we have the mind of Christ.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:1-6, 12-16‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Also


“And I, brethren, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual, but as to fleshly — as to babes in Christ; with milk I fed you, and not with meat, for ye were not yet able, but not even yet are ye now able, for yet ye are fleshly, for where [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not fleshly, and in the manner of men do walk?

for when one may say, ‘I, indeed, am of Paul;’ and another, ‘I — of Apollos;’ are ye not fleshly?

Who, then, is Paul, and who Apollos, but ministrants through whom ye did believe, and to each as the Lord gave?

I planted, Apollos watered, but God was giving growth; so that neither is he who is planting anything, nor he who is watering, but He who is giving growth — God;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:1-7‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

and finally,


“because of this I sent to you Timotheus, who is my child, beloved and faithful in the Lord, who shall remind you of my ways in Christ, according as everywhere in every assembly I teach. And as if I were not coming unto you certain were puffed up; but I will come quickly unto you, if the Lord may will, and I will know not the word of those puffed up, but the power; for not in word is the reign of God, but in power? what do ye wish? with a rod shall I come unto you, or in love, with a spirit also of meekness?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:17-21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
 
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Enoch111

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All of these passages have something to deal with division.
There is no need to go out and deliberately cause division. But divisions will come simply because some will hold to Bible truth and others will not. Ideally, there should be absolutely no division among Christians, but we can see that there are divisions because of either false doctrines or false practices.
 

amadeus

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@MatthewG
If everyone came with only God's Truth and was receiving only God's Truth there would, indeed, be no problem. The problems among believers arise mostly likely because of mixed messages being taught and preached.

Often, we may need to listen to the other guy with his at least part opposing message. Is he causing the division or is it you or me standing against him, and possible also each other, in any measure?

What is the doctrine we have learned? Is it different at all from the doctrine, which Jesus taught? Who then is the causer of division? Who is the liar? Rather perhaps the right question might be, Who, is not a liar at all?

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,.." Rom 3:4

When we push our lies [though held or believed in ignorance] on others are we not causers of division?

The solution is...? Keep on asking and seeking of God... daily!

If He knows that we need it, will He deny it to us?
 
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MatthewG

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Even today as a Christian, I still suffer from thoughts in my head. It’s part of my human nature, it’s good to realize that all of us with-in our head make judgements. Our flesh is naturally wired that way, then there is the spirit that is not natural, instead is heavenly and is rooted within God, and within Christ.

It’s a decision: some will fight over doctrine to prove their positions, as you suggest what is the truth of the matter is what one needs to get to.

Does God desire for me to love those even if they may completely different in their mind as they may not understand the things of God or they act only as the natural man?

Does God desire me to love the preacher even if he is not feeding his members the word all that much?

Does God desire for me to judge myself and be open with God about my own frailty and my own inner thoughts in giving them to God in humbleness to the Almighty?

Thank you for your thought provoking questions, @amadeus .
 
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1stCenturyLady

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In Luke 12:51, John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19, 1 Corinthinans 12:25;

All of these passages have something to deal with division.

The first one is Jesus stating: Luk_12:51 'Think ye that peace I came to give in the earth? no, I say to you, but rather division;

Now many attribute the use of earth here by Jesus; as in He was suggesting do you believe I have came to give peace in the earth. In which people can use this scripture to say. Look Jesus Christ did not bring peace peace to earth.

If you go do a word study on this word it's ge' (g1093), and it has 5 definitions to choose from.

The one that I will choose to use here that I believe best fits this scripture, is a country, a land, a territory and that will be in the land, country, and territory in Jerusalem.

Therefore it would read out that Think you that peace I cam to give in the country or land of Israel? No, I say to you rather division.

Why? Jesus Christ was a rock of offense to many of the Jewish brothers of his that looked down on and hated him. Jesus had come forth bring forth a division in which pertained in my own understanding a division between a people who were not of God; though they professed and had a zeal for God, and a division between a people who were true believers of God and that they were written before the foundation of the world into the Lambs Book of Life.

There would be a division that would arise because of Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus bring peace? He most certainly did, in Romans 5:1, Philippians 4:5-8, you can read in how that we can have peace with God as believers.

Though unbelievers will not have peace, because they have made the choice not to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

They may be constantly always trying to chase other things rather than seeking after God, having yet to be born again.

You have many more instants of this case: John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19. These were all division amongst that Jewish people, who were no believers in Christ and rejected him.

1 Corinthians 12:25 is different though: It is a message to believers to let their be no division among yourself and other believers (Paul mentions in 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 how believers are to examine themselves individually if they are in the faith or not).

Therefore as Christians are we meant to now today cause division among other individuals or are we to try and have love for God, and love for others as we traverse in this life day by day, trying to die daily and live by the spirit to have compassion, mercy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, gentleness, that is all spirit lead in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ having peace with God?


There is division between those spiritually minded with the mind of Christ whose old nature is crucified with Christ and they are free from sin, and those who are still carnally minded who still have their carnal nature and try to convince people through unscriptural out of context doctrines of demons that everyone does and we all sin daily.
 
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Pearl

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If we have the Spirit of God within us then we are united by that Spirit. That is what we should concentrate on. Obviously we differ in our opinions and in what we have been taught and also in what we have received but basically if the same Spirit is in us then there should be harmony of sorts.
 

1stCenturyLady

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If we have the Spirit of God within us then we are united by that Spirit. That is what we should concentrate on. Obviously we differ in our opinions and in what we have been taught and also in what we have received but basically if the same Spirit is in us then there should be harmony of sorts.

There is with those with the same Spirit of God in them. But not with those who have never been freed from sin.
 
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Pearl

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There is with those with the same Spirit of God in them. But not with those who have never been freed from sin.
Absolutely. I love your name by the way. I think I too am a 1st century lady.
 
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Hidden In Him

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In Luke 12:51, John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19, 1 Corinthinans 12:25;

All of these passages have something to deal with division.

The first one is Jesus stating: Luk_12:51 'Think ye that peace I came to give in the earth? no, I say to you, but rather division;

Now many attribute the use of earth here by Jesus; as in He was suggesting do you believe I have came to give peace in the earth. In which people can use this scripture to say. Look Jesus Christ did not bring peace peace to earth.

If you go do a word study on this word it's ge' (g1093), and it has 5 definitions to choose from.

The one that I will choose to use here that I believe best fits this scripture, is a country, a land, a territory and that will be in the land, country, and territory in Jerusalem.

Therefore it would read out that Think you that peace I cam to give in the country or land of Israel? No, I say to you rather division.

Why? Jesus Christ was a rock of offense to many of the Jewish brothers of his that looked down on and hated him. Jesus had come forth bring forth a division in which pertained in my own understanding a division between a people who were not of God; though they professed and had a zeal for God, and a division between a people who were true believers of God and that they were written before the foundation of the world into the Lambs Book of Life.

There would be a division that would arise because of Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus bring peace? He most certainly did, in Romans 5:1, Philippians 4:5-8, you can read in how that we can have peace with God as believers.

Though unbelievers will not have peace, because they have made the choice not to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

They may be constantly always trying to chase other things rather than seeking after God, having yet to be born again.


No, no, no, no and Double No, LoL.

Hello Matthew, and hope you are well.

You are taking Luke 12:51 entirely out of context here. He is not talking about inner peace; He was talking about peace between families, such as between father and son, mother and daughter, etc.

51 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. 52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. 53 Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”

And earth is the proper translation, because this principle still persists in the earth even among Gentile Christians to this day. Divisions are still being caused in the hone when someone comes to Christ. I had it happen in my own life, and had to distance myself from my mother and father for a time. My mother in particular did not approve of me giving my life to Christ, and cried about how she was "losing me." But as Christ Himself taught, "He who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me," which is why the parallel passage in Matthew reads:

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
 

Nancy

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I
In Luke 12:51, John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19, 1 Corinthinans 12:25;

All of these passages have something to deal with division.

The first one is Jesus stating: Luk_12:51 'Think ye that peace I came to give in the earth? no, I say to you, but rather division;

Now many attribute the use of earth here by Jesus; as in He was suggesting do you believe I have came to give peace in the earth. In which people can use this scripture to say. Look Jesus Christ did not bring peace peace to earth.

If you go do a word study on this word it's ge' (g1093), and it has 5 definitions to choose from.

The one that I will choose to use here that I believe best fits this scripture, is a country, a land, a territory and that will be in the land, country, and territory in Jerusalem.

Therefore it would read out that Think you that peace I cam to give in the country or land of Israel? No, I say to you rather division.

Why? Jesus Christ was a rock of offense to many of the Jewish brothers of his that looked down on and hated him. Jesus had come forth bring forth a division in which pertained in my own understanding a division between a people who were not of God; though they professed and had a zeal for God, and a division between a people who were true believers of God and that they were written before the foundation of the world into the Lambs Book of Life.

There would be a division that would arise because of Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus bring peace? He most certainly did, in Romans 5:1, Philippians 4:5-8, you can read in how that we can have peace with God as believers.

Though unbelievers will not have peace, because they have made the choice not to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

They may be constantly always trying to chase other things rather than seeking after God, having yet to be born again.

You have many more instants of this case: John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19. These were all division amongst that Jewish people, who were no believers in Christ and rejected him.

1 Corinthians 12:25 is different though: It is a message to believers to let their be no division among yourself and other believers (Paul mentions in 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 how believers are to examine themselves individually if they are in the faith or not).

Therefore as Christians are we meant to now today cause division among other individuals or are we to try and have love for God, and love for others as we traverse in this life day by day, trying to die daily and live by the spirit to have compassion, mercy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, gentleness, that is all spirit lead in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ having peace with God?
Totally agree with lforrest,
Jesus said they hated Him so they will hate us too...mother against daughter, son against father... you must know some families who disagree and quarrel over all things God. Or if a Christian is living with an Atheist? We don't join in the "world's" way of entertaining and they don't like that as, it is convicting them and they get all huffy like, 'who do you think you are'? Better than us??
Been there and will be again so, let them hate. And...pray for them.
 

Hidden In Him

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Even today as a Christian, I still suffer from thoughts in my head. It’s part of my human nature, it’s good to realize that all of us with-in our head make judgements. Our flesh is naturally wired that way, then there is the spirit that is not natural, instead is heavenly and is rooted within God, and within Christ.


When it comes to inner peace, one of the primary verses on this is, "You will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee." It just means that if you keep your mindset focused on living for God, and continue seeing things from His eternal perspective, nothing will disturb your peace.
 

Hidden In Him

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Been there and will be again so, let them hate. And...pray for them.


152217_Haters_Gonna_Hate_Eagle.jpg
 

MatthewG

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The Bible has the truth and is the key to understanding the things pertaining to God.

Seek to read and understand everything you can while you are alive on this earth in respect to the truth.

Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Everyone can have their own opinion; Truth however in the eternal aspects are (like Jesus the Chief Corner stone) that breaks and grinds our own natural ways and thinking into powder.

Choose God always.
Choose loving God first.
Choose loving others second.
Choose if possible putting yourself last.

Mark 9:35
Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.”

Take care,

Matthew G.
 
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ScottA

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In Luke 12:51, John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19, 1 Corinthinans 12:25;

All of these passages have something to deal with division.

The first one is Jesus stating: Luk_12:51 'Think ye that peace I came to give in the earth? no, I say to you, but rather division;

Now many attribute the use of earth here by Jesus; as in He was suggesting do you believe I have came to give peace in the earth. In which people can use this scripture to say. Look Jesus Christ did not bring peace peace to earth.

If you go do a word study on this word it's ge' (g1093), and it has 5 definitions to choose from.

The one that I will choose to use here that I believe best fits this scripture, is a country, a land, a territory and that will be in the land, country, and territory in Jerusalem.

Therefore it would read out that Think you that peace I cam to give in the country or land of Israel? No, I say to you rather division.

Why? Jesus Christ was a rock of offense to many of the Jewish brothers of his that looked down on and hated him. Jesus had come forth bring forth a division in which pertained in my own understanding a division between a people who were not of God; though they professed and had a zeal for God, and a division between a people who were true believers of God and that they were written before the foundation of the world into the Lambs Book of Life.

There would be a division that would arise because of Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus bring peace? He most certainly did, in Romans 5:1, Philippians 4:5-8, you can read in how that we can have peace with God as believers.

Though unbelievers will not have peace, because they have made the choice not to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

They may be constantly always trying to chase other things rather than seeking after God, having yet to be born again.

You have many more instants of this case: John 7:43, John 9:16, John 10:19. These were all division amongst that Jewish people, who were no believers in Christ and rejected him.

1 Corinthians 12:25 is different though: It is a message to believers to let their be no division among yourself and other believers (Paul mentions in 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 how believers are to examine themselves individually if they are in the faith or not).

Therefore as Christians are we meant to now today cause division among other individuals or are we to try and have love for God, and love for others as we traverse in this life day by day, trying to die daily and live by the spirit to have compassion, mercy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, gentleness, that is all spirit lead in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ having peace with God?
Since the Beginning, even unto the End, it has been a Son of mandate to divide [daily] "the light from the darkness."

But we are to "love one another as Christ loved the church." Even to "be of one mind." Which is not to say, that we are not to be different in our different gifts and in the different parts of the body, but each "being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord."

Thus, in the church it is not wrong to have different denominations, just as it is not wrong for a nose not to see eye to eye with a knee. On the contrary, it is intended to be so. But it is wrong to be so separate that we are no longer one body.

But the Earth was created to be divided, "and it was good." Even the Mount of Olives.

Then comes the end.
 
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MatthewG

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Since the Beginning, even unto the End, it has been a Son of mandate to divide [daily] "the light from the darkness."

But we are to "love one another as Christ loved the church." Even to "be of one mind." Which is not to say, that we are not to be different in our different gifts and in the different parts of the body, but each "being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord."

Thus, in the church it is not wrong to have different denominations, just as it is not wrong for a nose not to see eye to eye with a knee. On the contrary, it is intended to be so. But it is wrong to be so separate that we are no longer one body.

But the Earth was created to be divided, "and it was good." Even the Mount of Olives.

Then comes the end.

Hello ScottA,

Your comment reminds me of what Jesus had said about picking up the cross and dying daily to the old man, and being buried and resurrected with Christ living in the new inner man or inner woman (if a woman is reading this), with new spiritual life.
 
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