Do you believe this is...

[face2face]

@everyone

Probably a good time to reflect on this journey.

Those in support of angels sinning have provided the following text

Genesis 6:2 - thought to be angels coming down and marrying earthly women... is proven to be the Sons of Seth intermarrying with the Daughters of Cain (two lines coming together!)

Ezekiel 28 - Thought to be a fallen angel but shown to be a taunt against the King of Tyre who had protection while he walked between the gem stones (breastplate = Israel) but lost his estate due to pride.

Isaiah 14 - Thought to be a fallen angel but proven to be a taunt against the King of Babylon who was the morning or day star which fell from his very high position.

2 Peter 2 - Thought to be divine angels which sinned however shown to be human messengers who disobeyed God and are not dead in the grave (chains) awaiting judgement.

As you can see these are random passages each with their own context and back story none of which offers any evidence for fallen angels.

Many questions have been presented on each of these passages with some walking away while others struggling to provide an answer.

Hope that helps

F2F

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I'll leave you with this also

Christians for decades have held false notions that only angel-human offspring could produce "nephilim" (mighty ones or giants, see Gen 6:4). But the sons of Anak in Numbers 13:33 were also giants, ("nephilim") and these were certainly not angel-human offspring, as they existed long after the flood.

I can keep going if you like but the more light I shine on this chapter and text the more problems you have.

As I've shown Divine angels cannot sin. They are "ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who will be heirs of salvation". Heb. 1:14. These angels are not rebels, but do Yahweh's commandments, "hearkening unto the voice of his word . . . ministers of his, that do his pleasure." Psa 103:20, 21

For all the fluff and noise some are making in this thread we are yet to see any real honesty on this subject with many coming and going and adding little substance to the study (not directed at you).

The truth of the above forces the Christian to rethink their entire approach to the Word of God and questions the mental images they have allowed to conjure in their own minds of the unthinkable!

I know its ironic but Percy Jacksons Movies which is based on Greek Mythology is actually more aligned to Apostate Christianity than even Christians care to admit.

Staggering

F2F

Lucifer sinned. And I shall drop it with that.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

So you reject your Lord's words - interesting.

Force man-made notions on Gen 6 and reject the words of your Lord.

Not debatable you say

REPLY IN 2 PARTS DUE TO COUNT

PART 1

Angels, spiritual beings, appear in the Bible more than 200 times. They have aided prophets, saints, and God’s people through the Old and New Testament and throughout the history of the church. They have been known to praise God (Luke 2:13-14), fight spiritual battles (Daniel 10:13), and deliver God’s messages to humankind (Luke 2:10). But do these beings have free will?

Do angels and fallen angels (demons) have a will to choose to follow God and carry out His commands? Or do they have no choice whatsoever?

What Is Free Will?​

Free will, in essence, allows for a being to make choices without being coerced or forced to do so. If a being does not have free will, an outside force controls his or her actions.


Free will makes us accountable to what we say, do, and think. If, for instance, we did something that would be considered morally wrong, but we had no jurisdiction over our actions, no one could fault us. But if we possess free will, our wrong actions count against us. No one can sin without free will. But without free will, no one can truly experience the love of God. Love requires the choice to love, after all.

Scripture makes it clear that humans have free will. John 7:17 indicates we can choose to do the will of God. We can decide who we will place our trust or who (or what) we will worship every day (Joshua 24:15).

Therefore, whatever actions we choose to do will affect our lives now and throughout eternity.

But does this apply to angels? Do they have the ability to choose to serve God?

What Does the Bible Say about Angels?​

The Bible has a great deal to say about angels. Aside from the items mentioned above, angels appear several times throughout Scripture, in each case, carrying out the will of God in some way.

Angels praise God. The four living creatures mentioned in Revelation praise God without ceasing (Revelation 4:8). Scripture commands us to praise God (1 Chronicles 16:28), so they appear to obey this.

Angels deliver God’s messages. God commanded prophets such as Jeremiah to deliver messages to the people of Israel (Jeremiah 1:17), and angels such as Gabriel do the same when speaking to Daniel and Mary the mother of Jesus.

Angels follow God’s commands. They seem to follow similar commands issued from God to His people. They fight spiritual battles, glorify God, and spread His good news to whomever they encounter. But do they do this by choice?

To answer that question, we have to look at what happens when angels do not decide to follow God. We have to look at Satan himself.

Did Satan and the Fallen Angels Have Free Will? ​

We learn about the most famous fallen angel through two separate accounts: Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14:12-14.

Satan, originally called Lucifer, was anointed as a guardian cherub in Eden (Ezekiel 28:14). Precious stones adorned him, and he seemed to take notice of his beauty (Ezekiel 28:17). He swelled up with pride and, seeing his loveliness, sought to replace God on His throne (Isaiah 14:13).

7 Ways to Find Freedom in a World of Sin and Temptation
Overtaken by sin, Satan swayed some of the other angels to follow in his footsteps and refuse to worship God. Often, people point to Revelation 12:4 to indicated that a third of the stars (an image often used in Scripture to indicate the angels) fell away from the presence of God when they chose to no longer obey Him. This means one-third of the angels decided to sin and became fallen angels (demons).

The above comes from Do Angels Have Free Will? Can Angels Choose to Sin?

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

PART 2

The following says it better then I could... from my collection of things on giants.

Any bolding is mone

Who were the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4? | GotQuestions.org

Who were the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4? Did the fallen angels mate with human female to produce the Nephilim?

www.gotquestions.org

Genesis 6:1-4 refers to the sons of God and the daughters of men. There have been several suggestions as to who the sons of God were and why the children they had with daughters of men grew into a race of giants (that is what the word Nephilim seems to indicate).



The three primary views on the identity of the sons of God are 1) they were fallen angels, 2) they were powerful human rulers, or 3) they were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. Giving weight to the first theory is the fact that in the Old Testament the phrase “sons of God” always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). A potential problem with this is in Matthew 22:30, which indicates that angels do not marry. The Bible gives us no reason to believe that angels have a gender or are able to reproduce. The other two views do not present this problem.

The weakness of views 2) and 3) is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were “giants” or “heroes of old, men of renown.” Further, why would God decide to bring the flood on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7) when God had never forbidden powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain? The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment.

As previously noted, the weakness of the first view is that Matthew 22:30 declares, “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” However, the text does not say “angels are not able to marry.” Rather, it indicates only that angels do not marry. Second, Matthew 22:30 is referring to the “angels in heaven.” It is not referring to fallen angels, who do not care about God’s created order and actively seek ways to disrupt God’s plan. The fact that God’s holy angels do not marry or engage in sexual relations does not mean the same is true of Satan and his demons.

View 1) is the most likely position. Yes, it is an interesting “contradiction” to say that angels are sexless and then to say that the “sons of God” were fallen angels who procreated with human females. However, while angels are spiritual beings (Hebrews 1:14), they can appear in human, physical form (Mark 16:5). The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with the two angels who were with Lot (Genesis 19:1-5). It is plausible that angels are capable of taking on human form, even to the point of replicating human sexuality and possibly even reproduction. Why do the fallen angels not do this more often? It seems that God imprisoned the fallen angels who committed this evil sin, so that the other fallen angels would not do the same (as described in Jude 6). Earlier Hebrew interpreters and apocryphal and pseudepigraphal writings are unanimous in holding to the view that fallen angels are the “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4. This by no means closes the debate. However, the view that Genesis 6:1-4 involves fallen angels mating with human females has a strong contextual, grammatical, and historical basis.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Christians typically believe they have something eternal in them, a "Divine Essence" which is a false understanding

He HAS made a NEW CREATURE. Our former dead spirit has come to life. I never said it was divine. We are in Christ, in The Divine God, in a loving relationship.

eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality Rom 2:7.

There are many encouraging g messages if hope to persevere _ in faith _ that has been given us. Yes He wants us to make an effort, but our efforts are not what saves us. He did the work. It is unmerited favor. It is the same concept in life that we are given Life requires us to learn, work, set goals ... pursue happiness. Lazy bums do not achieve happiness sitting around thinking God created us, why doesn't He just provide everything ... why work ... gimme, gimme, I want, I need, I beg ... have mercy ... oh and yes, God Bless. They did not peresevere. They gave up, had no faith even in themselves. Sn they cop an attitude, hate society, envy, lie steal ... And we read scriptures about the sluggards who always end in poverty and have never ending excuses not to work, blaming it on society ... having a victim mindset. Well, give them the Gospel and maybe they will change their tune.

Now if that eternal nature is capable of sin - what value would you ascribe is?
If the quality of God's Divine nature can and does sin what quality would you ascribe His Honour & Glory?

I believe this new spiritual creature is pure - it has to be we are in Christ who is pure. This is our new nature, yet we still have the old. We still have the fleshly nature, that we are prompted to render dead as though it was a done deal. Physically we are not dead yet. Spiritually we are separate from the old self because the the WORD, which is shaper than a two-edged sword is capable of dividing soul and spirit. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in our flesh. HE dwells in our special, Most Holy (separate) place, our spiritual compartment if you will. So that at any moment of sudden death, we go to the LORD pure, white as snow, leaving behind our old self that is finally dead.