Do you believe the return of the Lord is imminent ?
Do you believe specific Biblical prophecies are being fulfilled in our time?
Do you believe specific Biblical prophecies are being fulfilled in our time?
Do You Believe???
- Thread starter Hitch
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No, as a pre-wrather I don't believe the bible teaches imminency. I believe the stage is being set up for the fulfillment of biblical prophecies and they will be completed in our lifetime, realizing tho that several other generations of believers thought that as well.
I appreciate your straight answer .
What is it that makes you think 'the time is near' ?
The most recent event I can think of was the election of Obama as president. I believe that God was giving us an example of how an "unknown" can have a world-wide 85% approval rating and get elected while being totally incompetent and having accomplished nothing worthwhile to deserve that opportunity. I also believe the Middle East will soon be involved in what "might" become WW3 which, imo, will open the door for the person whom most of Israel will believe is their Messiah, for a while anyways until God opens the eyes of His elect remnant and we can see the world spiraling out of control while losing any respect for God and mostly denying His very existence.
I think the world is "ripe" for an open rebellion against God and His teachings as explained by Paul in 2 Tim. 3:1-5 - "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[sup]2 [/sup]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[sup]3 [/sup]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[sup]4 [/sup]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[sup]5 [/sup]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
I think the world is "ripe" for an open rebellion against God and His teachings as explained by Paul in 2 Tim. 3:1-5 - "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[sup]2 [/sup]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[sup]3 [/sup]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[sup]4 [/sup]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[sup]5 [/sup]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
Would you care to give a time frame?
I take it then you do NOT see prophetic fulfillment wrt Israel/1948 ?
This is just a guesstimate mind you but if we take David's word that a mans' life is 70 yrs and consider that a generation and have the last generation that shall see "all these things come to pass" per Matthew 24 and if we consider the "beginning" of that generation to be 1948, then including the 70th week, things must end around 2018, so things should begin shortly. Just an opinion, not proclaiming anything.
Ive been watching prophecies being fulfilled in our lifetime.
I understand the next prophecy to be fulfilled.
The chapter is Daniel 11.And the event is the election.
Mitt Romney is about to obtain this kingdom by flatteries.
Daniel11;7-8
But out of her roots shall one
(Imad Fayez Mughiyah -Hezbollah)stand up in his estate,which shall come with an army,and shall enter into the fortress (US embassy and barracks ,Beirut 1983)of the king of the north,and shall deal against them,and shall prevail;
And shall also carry captives into Egypt (TWA flight 847-1985)thier gods,with thier prnces,and with thier precious vessels of silver and gold;and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.
Imad Fayez Mughniyah died feb 12,2008
Ronald Reagon died june 5,2004
June 1985
TWA Flight 847 from Athens is hijacked by terrorists. The pilot is forced to fly to Beirut, where hijackers beat and kill a Navy diver. The plane is flown to Algiers, then back to Beirut again. Most passengers are released; 39 are held captive in Lebanon. Reagan vows that the U.S. will never give in to terrorists' demands. The remaining hostages are freed after 17 days.
Dan 11;9
So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom,and shall return into his own land.
Dan11;10-12
But his sons shall be stirred up,and shall assemble a mutitude of great forces;and one shall certainly come,and overflow,and pass through;then shall he return,and be stirred up,even to his fortress.
(1991 Gulf war)
And the king of the south shall be moved with choler,and shall come forth and fight with him,even with the king of the north;and he shall set forth a great mutitude;but the mutitude shall be given into his hand.
And when he had taken away the mutitude,his heart shall be lifted up;and he shall cast down many ten thousands;but he shall not be strengthened by it.
(During the first war with Iraq,Sadam had the 3rd largest army in the world.Certainly a great mutitude.But they were given into the hand of the US.After the US army (its mutitude)was withdrawn from Iraq ,Sadam cast down many ten thousands.The kurds to the north and shias to the south.Even though the US imposed no fly zones to help the uprising ,Sadam defeated all that rose against him.)
Dan 11;13-17
(2003 Gulf war)
For the king of the north shall return,and set forth a mutitude greater than the former,and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches. And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south;also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vosion;but they shall fall. So the king of the north shall come,and cast up a mount,and take the most fenced cities;and the arms of the south shall not withstandlneither his chosen people,neither shall there be any strength to withstand But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will,and none shall stand before him;and he shall stand in the glorious land,which by his hand shall be consumed. He shallalso set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom,and upright ones with him;thus shall he do;and he shall give him the daughter of women ,corrupting her;but she shall not stand on his side,neither be for him.
The US returned with an army greater than before and took the most fenced cities.Not even Sadam's chosen elect (elite republican guard) could withstand.
Daniel 11;18
After this shall he turn his face unto the isles,and shall take many;but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offerd by him to cease;without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.
Bush took prisoners to Cuba and has since been forced to give the detainees their day in court.
Daniel 11;19-20
Then shall he turn his face toward the fort of his own land;but stumble and fall,and not be found. Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom;but within few days he shall be destroyed,neither in anger,nor in battle.
Bush then conceded his estate(the White house)to Obama who is a raiser of taxes.After a few years Obama would be defeated but not in battle.
Daniel 11;21
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person,to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom;but he shall come in peaceably,and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
As ive stated in a previous thread.
Theres about 6 or 7 years till the time of the end.
Yes there is a prophectic fulfillment with the nation of Israel in 1948.
Revelation 17;8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
John wrote this in 100 ad.
At that time the beast once was,meaning it had once existed before 100 ad.
But at that time, John wrote that it now is not.(meaning it did not exist in 100 ad).
It is written that that beast would appear once more and it did in 1948.
Those whos names are not written were astounded when they beheld it .They had always dreamed of it and prayed that it would once more exist.They followed it from all over the world.They followed it from many nations.
Though there are others and you would find them all to be as this ,here is another prophecy concerning this beast in 1967.
Daniel 7;24
The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.
There are ten nations dwelling in the kingdom(promised land)who renderd thier kingdom (Palestine)t the beast.
In 1967 three of those attempted to pluck it up and remove it .
But he that was different from them subdued them in only six days.
It was called the 6 day war and national Israel subdued Egypt,Syria,and Jordan .
You all need to stop playing Hitch's game, and start asking questions about what he/she believes, even though I doubt you'll even get a straight answer then, since that's the devil's game he/she's playing.
Telling the cowardly VETERAN to back up his charges with quotes = the devil's game.
Well why not futurism ,at its heart is liberal modernism , and it shows :)
Again, your fear is showing. It's because of the games you're trying to play here.
So far, we know you do not believe in the literal second coming of Jesus Christ back to this earth. That narrows your belief down to either Full Preterism of Orthodox Judaism, or that of a totally different religion than Christianity.
Show me where my Lord Jesus Christ is specifically sitting upon The Father's Throne in Heaven? Or better yet, show me where Jesus Christ is now sitting upon David's throne.
New to reading ?
* Raising the dead ,on the last day,not you believe him anyway, does not requite his bodily presence, obviously he could do so from heaven. As you know there is strong evidence in Scripture and in the Creed copied above, that he will appear bodily to do just that. Since, contrary to your claims, this event happens at the 'last day' final judgement is rendered as mankind is raised from the dead and enters the eternal state.
You are lying .Again . [ ^_^
Show me where my Lord Jesus Christ is specifically sitting upon The Father's Throne in Heaven? Or better yet, show me where Jesus Christ is now sitting upon David's throne.
A That is what the Right Hand of Power means stupid.
B Dave;'s throne ,as was Sol's , were typical of the heavenly throne.
C You 're pathetic
Right hand of WHO's throne did you say? Oh yeah, you didn't say. That could mean your idea of that throne could be ANYBODY'S then.
David's throne is where today?
I don't see ANY Scripture support you're giving on that, did we miss it somewhere that posted?
(What does it mean brethren when someone falsely accuses... a believer that does post Scripture proof to back what they say, BY someone who does not back their words up with Scripture proof? That's a hypocrite, isn't it?)
Well if one rejects the account in Acts. but I believe it
Returned to dust , duh, . No coward Jesus will not find Dave's old chair clean it up and use it, Dave's throne was typical of the heavenly.
This what you're referring to?
Acts 2:29-35
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, He would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
(KJV)
Notice nowhere does that say Christ is now sitting upon David's throne in Heaven, nor upon The Father's Throne, but on the RIGHT HAND OF GOD'S THRONE.
The following is the time WHEN Jesus shall sit upon HIS Own throne...
Matt 19:28-29
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
(KJV)
In the "regeneration"? When His Apostles will also sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel? Well when is all that supposed to happen? Has it occurred yet today? No. It will occur at the time of Christ's SECOND COMING back to this earth.
Matt 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
(KJV)
When the Son of man (Jesus Christ) COMES IN HIS GLORY? And ALL THE HOLY ANGELS WITH HIM? THEN He shall sit upon the throne of His glory? Yes, and that has not happened yet today! Until then, He is sitting at the right hand of The Father UNTIL what? Until all His enemies be made His footstool. And that means until He TAKES... reign over all the nations and peoples on this earth.
That will occur ONLY at Christ Jesus' second coming per Acts 1 which declares He returns in like manner HOW He ascended to Heaven, which involves the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, ON EARTH.
First of all He didint ascend from the Mt of Olives secondly the last enemy is death, destroyed by resurrection. See jr the heavely throne was typified by Dave's seat of power over Israel, it was in reality the Lord's throne,and your semi dispensationalist ramblings are meaningless.
This is like killing a mouse with a shotgun.
Acts 1:9-12
9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
(KJV)
That Scripture makes you a liar.
The last enemy is not destroyed yet today, for people are still dying. And there's still 'spiritually dead' people walking around without Christ Jesus. As a matter of fact per God's Word, the concept of 'death' is not destroyed until the "second death" of Rev.20, which is... the casting into the "lake of fire". Assuming that has happened is a support of wickedness, because death will be destroyed in the "lake of fire" along with the wicked.
Rev 20:14-15
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)
LOL You idiot, you are in need of remedial reading.
This is your quote ;
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey
It clearly states they returned from the Mount, get a grip , it doest say He ascended from that Mount. Duh
Yeah at the last day, just like Jesus said. What is wicked is YOU and your slander trying to imply that I've posted otherwise. You are disgusting. And a shame to the church.
Retrobyter
Active Member
Shalom, Hitch.
Maybe that verse doesn't quite say it, but Luke does:
Luke 24:50-53
50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great
53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
KJV
And regarding Bethany or Beit-Anyah (meaning "House of a date [the fruit]"), Wikipedia says,...
Can you follow the normal logic? He had led them from Yerushalayim almost to Beit-Anyah on the southeastern slope of Har HaZeitiym (the Mount of Olives), then Yeshua` was taken upward, and then the disciples returned from Har HaZeitiym to Yerushalayim. So, you tell me: Where was Yeshua` when He ascended?
Maybe that verse doesn't quite say it, but Luke does:
Luke 24:50-53
50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great
53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
KJV
And regarding Bethany or Beit-Anyah (meaning "House of a date [the fruit]"), Wikipedia says,...
Can you follow the normal logic? He had led them from Yerushalayim almost to Beit-Anyah on the southeastern slope of Har HaZeitiym (the Mount of Olives), then Yeshua` was taken upward, and then the disciples returned from Har HaZeitiym to Yerushalayim. So, you tell me: Where was Yeshua` when He ascended?
Bethany is the specific location of the ascension as per holy writ;
0 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
Welches is a small town in Oregon, Rhodedendron is also a small town in Oregon, both on are the flanks of Mt Hood. Mt Hood .like Olivet has many destinations. One may say 'I am going to the Mountain' generically and be correct but if an important event is planned to take place in Welches traveling to Rhodedendron would be a mistake.
0 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
Welches is a small town in Oregon, Rhodedendron is also a small town in Oregon, both on are the flanks of Mt Hood. Mt Hood .like Olivet has many destinations. One may say 'I am going to the Mountain' generically and be correct but if an important event is planned to take place in Welches traveling to Rhodedendron would be a mistake.
The two angels in Acts 1 declared that Jesus will return in like manner as He ascended; Zech.14 reveals Christ's future return is to the Mount of Olives. Thus the Mount of Olives is what Acts 1 is pointing to.
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