Do you twist the Truth?

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afaithfulone4u

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Have you yourself or ever known believers who see the scriptures and what they say, but when you/they don't like what they reveal, meaning, can't accept what it says because it tampers with our/their comfort zone of our flesh, we/they just overlook it, as not to feel responsibility for what it reveals to us/them.
And if someone tells us/them what it means, we/they twist the TRUTH by claiming those Words of God originated from the mind of the man who is trying to open their eyes to the TRUTH OF THE WORD AS IT IS WRITTEN that they don't want to accept.
We/they do this so they can feel justified in paying no attention to the Word of God they heard but they can't accept, as being a lie from a man's mouth, not from God's mouth, thereby twisting the Truth to their benefit calling it a lie from man, so they have no guilty conscience of having to obey it, having a hardened heart.

We are all guilty of this when we begin our walk in the wilderness once we come to Christ for our flesh knows nothing else and must learn how to walk in the Spirit, in the Word and not in the flesh of fallen man.
We must overcome, for it is our flesh that is keeping us from accepting the One Truth that is not double minded. The only time the Word of God is divided is when one who does not have spiritual eyes can only see the natural Words of the Bible and read it as a Book of JUST stories. But there are those who have attained their spiritual eyes and can see both the natural and the spiritual Words and get TRUE understanding for their souls growth in the LIVING WORD.
 

This Vale Of Tears

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afaithfulone4u said:
Have you yourself or ever known believers who see the scriptures and what they say, but when you/they don't like what they reveal, meaning, can't accept what it says because it tampers with our/their comfort zone of our flesh, we/they just overlook it, as not to feel responsibility for what it reveals to us/them.
And if someone tells us/them what it means, we/they twist the TRUTH by claiming those Words of God originated from the mind of the man who is trying to open their eyes to the TRUTH OF THE WORD AS IT IS WRITTEN that they don't want to accept.
We/they do this so they can feel justified in paying no attention to the Word of God they heard but they can't accept, as being a lie from a man's mouth, not from God's mouth, thereby twisting the Truth to their benefit calling it a lie from man, so they have no guilty conscience of having to obey it, having a hardened heart.

We are all guilty of this when we begin our walk in the wilderness once we come to Christ for our flesh knows nothing else and must learn how to walk in the Spirit, in the Word and not in the flesh of fallen man.
We must overcome, for it is our flesh that is keeping us from accepting the One Truth that is not double minded. The only time the Word of God is divided is when one who does not have spiritual eyes can only see the natural Words of the Bible and read it as a Book of JUST stories. But there are those who have attained their spiritual eyes and can see both the natural and the spiritual Words and get TRUE understanding for their souls growth in the LIVING WORD.
I think you're highlighting why sola scriptura is a flawed design to begin with. The Bible was never meant to be an authority, it was meant to be read under authority; particularly the authority by which Christ commissioned his holy Church. Even before the canonical councils of the 4th century, it couldn't be more clear that decisions on what scripture means were made by councils and I mean in particular the decisions about the nature of God and the Trinity.

It isn't just the Bible that people are reading with biased eyes, it's the history of the church as well.

And I could wax loquacious with examples. But I'll simply say that the reliability of our beliefs is directly related to the proximity of the early church and the apostolic age. Because Jesus taught the apostles and the apostles taught later generations of Christians and appointed successors who they personally coached in the faith. Because it's unreasonable to expect the gospels detailed all of Christ's teachings or the epistles all the apostles taught (which they learned from Jesus) so we have to look to the teachings and beliefs of the early church and such founders as Justin Martyr, Clement, Jerome, etc. The way Christians practiced their belief in the early days betrayed a simple truth, that God left people in charge, not a book. And however flawed people may be, what is an even greater error is telling people to interpret scripture for themselves, doing away with authority altogether because it isn't perfect.

And what has that yielded? 33,000 denominations and independent churches. Martin Luther saw the lunacy that unfolded from his followers and had this to say about it in writing to Pope Leo X:

"There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams."

"I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity. . . . That the Roman Church is more honored by God than all others is not to be doubted. St, Peter and St. Paul, forty-six Popes, some hundreds of thousands of martyrs, have laid down their lives in its communion, having overcome Hell and the world; so that the eyes of God rest on the Roman church with special favor. Though nowadays everything is in a wretched state, it is no ground for separating from the Church. On the contrary, the worse things are going, the more should we hold close to her, for it is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better. We must not separate from God on account of any work of the devil, nor cease to have fellowship with the children of God who are still abiding in the pale of Rome on account of the multitude of the ungodly. There is no sin, no amount of evil, which should be permitted to dissolve the bond of charity or break the bond of unity of the body. For love can do all things, and nothing is difficult to those who are united."


Now what's interesting is that Martin Luther not only lays out the problem with anarchy begotten by everyone interpreting scripture for themselves, but then even suggests that reunion with the Catholic Church may be the only sane alternative.
 

afaithfulone4u

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Vale of Tears,
There is only one head of the church and it is Christ who is the Word of God who became flesh and he chose 12 apostles not just one to take the gospel into all the world. But one was a devil and was replaced.
We also must not forget that while Peter was sent to the circumcision, Paul, who had never even met Peter until 3 years after JESUS CHOSE him, setting him apart to take the gospel to the uncircumcised and to kings and to Israel and wrote down the INSPIRED Word for OUR LEARNING AND EDIFICATION as God guided him to write to EDIFY the church(Raise up our tabernacles/bodies in Higher standards)and in keeping the ways of the early church which followed the head of the body which is CHRIST...... NOT Peter.
I do not follow false teachers, for we do not worship the mother Mary as a god nor direct PRAYERS to a human as if she speaks for God. Nor think of her as a human, being the mother of God, for God was the one who created her. She did birth the Word of God who became flesh, who is the Son of God. Jesus is equal with God for God must be exactly as His Word and Jesus, says the Bible, is THE WORD.

Nor do I participate in clear idolatry, being encouraged look to man made images as an image to worship or bow to as God. For any images of so called JESUS, MARY or any saint is idolatry, for there are no actual images of these humans. Jesus did not come as God, the Word was with God, but he became flesh for us as in taking on a human form to be our replacement for sin and also to feel our sorrows.

So if you are trying to convince me that the CC has the truth in them that we are to follow, you are wasting your breath. For there is no man on this earth that has been given us in the place of Christ who is the TRUTH, THE WAY AND THE LIFE for it is only the Word that can save us, not any one man.
The requirement is to be believe in CHRIST as the Son of God and the work he did on the cross, be Born Again of the Spirit and to receive your revelation of the Son from God, not to just know Peter and follow him for as we know man is fallible at times. If just one truth is mishandled and handed down through the traditions of MAN, it will ruin all who have learned it.

We are said to have a more sure Word for we have the scriptures that are FAR MORE important to us than natural bread for they are the Bread of life. For you to say that God's Word is not that important as following under Peter, is blasphemy.
Each member of the true body of Christ is a living STONE under the headstone which again is The Word himself who is not only the headstone, but the foundation of the temple that we must build upon.
Our foundation is not built upon Peter the apostle who denied Jesus 3 times, who Jesus had to rebuke that tried to stop Jesus from being our sacrifice to keep his Jesus' man flesh alive and us dead in our sinful ways. Because Peter is a man and not God. He had the mind of a man and not the things and purposes of God. He did not want to loose Jesus' human fellowship just as we always want to hang on to our loved ones. Our foundation is built upon The Word/The Christ, for he is the Rock of our salvation that will never let us sink when we cling to God's Word as the only Truth. The Stone the very law/Word that the flesh man rejects to their self deceived destruction.


2 Tim 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred NOT with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
KJV
Gal 2:6-8
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person :) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles :)
KJV
Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
KJV
 

soupy

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I believe this thread is a response to Financial Stewardship postings by afaithfulone4you.
Now in this new thread it appears you are saying others who disagree with your Biblical interpretation are blinded by their personal comfort zone and deliberately choose to disregard scripture to avoid personal responsibility.

I am able to discuss my views with others with whom I disagree, without concluding the other simply wants to stay in their comfort zone and avoid personal responsibility. I it disconcerting that you've drawn such a conclusion, as if God doesn't know our heart. Do you understand you don't have/know all Truth and will benefit from a discussion, reviewing the Scriptures in context to understand another person's view of the subject. I'm certain we can all learn from forum discussions.

I must add, I've stopped reading the Bible verses you post, after trying several times, but not finding a correlation in the verse to the subject under discussion. Not seeing a correlation to that subject isn't saying the verse is not important in a different context.
 
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Dan57

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I never twist scripture.... Some of the rules just don't apply to me :)

Actually, I think its natural for Christians to apply a very liberal interpretation to things they struggle with. Instances where we think that our good intentions are good enough, i.g; I didn't really steal it because i was planning to take it back .. We mentally justify ourselves.

Then there are other parts of the bible where we were just taught wrong or misinterpret prophecy etc. We are then charged with twisting the scriptures to suit ourselves, but in truth, we were just too stupid to know what something actually meant. That's more of a case of confusion, not twisting.

Then there's the "I didn't know" excuse.. I doubt that excuse will fly on judgement day, but playing the biblical ignorant game seems to work on earth. How can anyone hold us accountable? Its not our fault if we didn't know? I tried that in court once, but the Judge said; "Ignorance of the law is no defense.......... Guilty as charged" :(
 

This Vale Of Tears

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Jun 13, 2013
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afaithfulone4u said:
Vale of Tears,
There is only one head of the church and it is Christ who is the Word of God who became flesh and he chose 12 apostles not just one to take the gospel into all the world. But one was a devil and was replaced.


Good. I'm glad that you noticed that the first incident of Apostolic Succession was recorded in Acts.


We also must not forget that while Peter was sent to the circumcision, Paul, who had never even met Peter until 3 years after JESUS CHOSE him, setting him apart to take the gospel to the uncircumcised and to kings and to Israel and wrote down the INSPIRED Word for OUR LEARNING AND EDIFICATION as God guided him to write to EDIFY the church(Raise up our tabernacles/bodies in Higher standards)and in keeping the ways of the early church which followed the head of the body which is CHRIST...... NOT Peter.

Which doesn't contradict my point. You're launching into your anti-Catholic crusade and expanding the discussion beyond its natural borders. The Roman Catholic Church believes that Peter was chosen as leader of the apostles. The Eastern Orthodox Church believes that all apostles were given equal authority. But both of us believe the truth that Jesus gave authority to the apostles and that from the beginning the church was under a structure of authority, not every man for himself, believing what is wise in his own eyes. It isn't the Catholic Church that Protestants contend with, it's authority.

I do not follow false teachers, for we do not worship the mother Mary as a god nor direct PRAYERS to a human as if she speaks for God. Nor think of her as a human, being the mother of God, for God was the one who created her. She did birth the Word of God who became flesh, who is the Son of God. Jesus is equal with God for God must be exactly as His Word and Jesus, says the Bible, is THE WORD.

You're doing it again. The discussion is about people interpreting the Bible as they see fit. If you want to discuss Marian piety, you should start a thread on that.


Nor do I participate in clear idolatry, being encouraged look to man made images as an image to worship or bow to as God. For any images of so called JESUS, MARY or any saint is idolatry, for there are no actual images of these humans. Jesus did not come as God, the Word was with God, but he became flesh for us as in taking on a human form to be our replacement for sin and also to feel our sorrows.


Ditto. Start another thread, Ellen G. White.


So if you are trying to convince me that the CC has the truth in them that we are to follow, you are wasting your breath. For there is no man on this earth that has been given us in the place of Christ who is the TRUTH, THE WAY AND THE LIFE for it is only the Word that can save us, not any one man.


I'm trying to convince you that the Bible never has and never will have authority. You seize upon Christians who exercise license in biblical exegesis but then exhibit the same blind bias when it comes to history. The Church created the Bible and the Bible is a product of authority, not the source of it. To read the accounts of the Councils of Rome and Hippo and not understand this is to display the very same intentional ignorance you're condemning in others.


The requirement is to be believe in CHRIST as the Son of God and the work he did on the cross, be Born Again of the Spirit and to receive your revelation of the Son from God, not to just know Peter and follow him for as we know man is fallible at times. If just one truth is mishandled and handed down through the traditions of MAN, it will ruin all who have learned it.


Only in your mind is there a conflict between Peter and Christ as if they were competing against each other. The singular point of stubbornness among many Protestants (not all) is the fact that God placed his church in the hands of human authority and rebellion against that authority is rebellion against God. One cannot claim to be in submission to God while spurning the fallible and imperfect human leadership God commands us to submit to. Submitting to human leadership is an act of pure trust in the Almighty. Many are guilty of being bereft of such trust.


We are said to have a more sure Word for we have the scriptures that are FAR MORE important to us than natural bread for they are the Bread of life. For you to say that God's Word is not that important as following under Peter, is blasphemy.


How far from the heart of God are those who call everything they don't like to hear "blasphemy"! They are not dissimilar to the Pharisees who did much the same thing in the days of Christ. It shuts down conversations and causes willful blindness to hold sway against the process of intellectual discovery. You might want to consider if I'm debating your mind or your temper.


Each member of the true body of Christ is a living STONE under the headstone which again is The Word himself who is not only the headstone, but the foundation of the temple that we must build upon.
Our foundation is not built upon Peter the apostle who denied Jesus 3 times, who Jesus had to rebuke that tried to stop Jesus from being our sacrifice to keep his Jesus' man flesh alive and us dead in our sinful ways. Because Peter is a man and not God. He had the mind of a man and not the things and purposes of God. He did not want to loose Jesus' human fellowship just as we always want to hang on to our loved ones. Our foundation is built upon The Word/The Christ, for he is the Rock of our salvation that will never let us sink when we cling to God's Word as the only Truth. The Stone the very law/Word that the flesh man rejects to their self deceived destruction.

Casting aspersions on Peter doesn't make your argument but rather reinforces mine that God has placed us under the authority of fallible and imperfect human leadership. This whole thread is about what Christians do in the absence of leadership and how THEY are twisting scripture (meaning they don't agree with your interpretation). And yet you have no greater authority than they do to assert your interpretation as valid and consign to heresy all opinions at variance with your own. It's a logical fallacy to claim the authority of scripture and imagine that your claim is stronger than others who make similar posture. In the end, everyone who deceives themselves in feigned assent to the "authority of scripture" are just fooling themselves because there is no authority whatsoever in such a system. Just anarchy.
 

Angelina

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soupy said:
I believe this thread is a response to Financial Stewardship postings by afaithfulone4you.
Now in this new thread it appears you are saying others who disagree with your Biblical interpretation are blinded by their personal comfort zone and deliberately choose to disregard scripture to avoid personal responsibility.

I am able to discuss my views with others with whom I disagree, without concluding the other simply wants to stay in their comfort zone and avoid personal responsibility. I it disconcerting that you've drawn such a conclusion, as if God doesn't know our heart. Do you understand you don't have/know all Truth and will benefit from a discussion, reviewing the Scriptures in context to understand another person's view of the subject. I'm certain we can all learn from forum discussions.

I must add, I've stopped reading the Bible verses you post, after trying several times, but not finding a correlation in the verse to the subject under discussion. Not seeing a correlation to that subject isn't saying the verse is not important in a different context.
Well noted soupy...read it and make up your own minds about who is twisting scripture...
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19125-do-you-know-that-god-can-tell-where-your-heart-is-with-even-100/#entry211628
 
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