Doctrine will not save you, a relationship with Jesus will.

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David H.

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Large segments of the evangelical churches in the West are moving from stressing relationship to stressing doctrine for salvation. Accepting a creed will not save you, a relationship with Jesus will. Some even berate someone who says they have "personal relationship with Jesus" and say this is found nowhere in scripture. But the fact is the opposite is found in scripture, when Jesus says, "I Never knew you".

Doctrine and creed will not save you, only a relationship with Jesus will. That is not to say that doctrine is not important, but the foundation of Salvation is a relationship.
 
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Karl Peters

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Indeed - The Lord was always looking for men/women to have a personal relationship with Him. Now I go over this regularly with other Christians, and at least from my experience few have ever 'berated me' for say that. It might just be the churches which I have been at. However!!!! What I do find is that many listen to me telling them about a personal relationship with Jesus and they either don't really consider it, or just don't understand it!!!

That is to say that I do find many "stressing doctrine for salvation" but they seem to think that knowing doctrine means they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ!!!

Because of that I often feel the need to clarify what a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is like. It is like most any other personal relationship we have with others, with the possible understanding that God is spirit!

Where it is written that His sheep hear His voice - we do! Taking back and forth with other people is exactly how we come to have personal relationship with them, and it is exactly how we come to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ also!!

To make this clearer to others, and that definitely includes those depending on doctrine, I often use the Bible to correct their error. I also often use example of my relationship with Him. For example, some of my favorite and most used verses are:

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

It doesn't get much clearer than the above verse. He is standing there knocking with His voice and asking us to come dine with Him. Is that exactly what a guy hoping to get to know a girl does. He tries to talk to her and usually asks her out on a date with usually would mean dining out together. It is not the sharing food but the getting into a more relaxed conversation with the girl that guy is hoping for, because he is interested in a personal relationship with the girl. In the same way Jesus Christ (The Big Guy in the Sky) is looking for a personal relationship with us because He is looking for a bride (the church). So clearly a person in not the bride (the church) if they have not yet sit down with the Lord and had conversations with Him!

Ps 81:13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me...

In the above verse we see that the Lord is almost begging 'His people' to listen to Him. He was to the Jews first but as Christians we are supposed to be grafted into the Jewish root (Jesus Christ) So if you combine the two verses above you see that He is almost begging that we would just listen to Him. So the knock that He is making at the door with His voice is "Listen to Me".

Mat 17:5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

And as can be seen in the above verse, the Father totally backs our needing to listen to Him. In fact that is a commandment from the Father - and indeed 'Hearing from Jesus Christ' is the foremost command!!!

Mark 12:28,29 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;

We can see above that when the scribe asked Jesus what the foremost command was Jesus answered ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL!, - "THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD" is clearly not a command but a statement and what you find out when you listen to Him / "Hear, O Israel.

So now - after giving verses to those depending on their understanding of doctrine as opposed to their relationship with Jesus Christ it is usually helpful to provide some examples (testimonies) from my personal relationship. The focus with the testimonies are on the relationship. So while I have been talking back and forth with Him for twenty years and a number of times each day, I pick testimonies which best show the personal relationship with Him. For example:

The very first words I heard from Him were, "Read Your Bible". That showed instantly that He was not the Bible was One who wants us to read our Bible - not just go on doctrine passed down by men.

He often will speak in parables and saying, because He is the Teacher (not the textbook but the Teacher)

He has given me many many parables and saying - hear are a few I like to use, because they show that type of personal relationship, we have with Him! Here are some examples I personally heard from Him:

THESE BITS OF WISDOM ARE LIKE DROPS OF WATER. I WILL SURELY GIVE YOU A POND FULL.

He did indeed given me many many parables and saying - or "BITS OF WISDOM" as He referred to them.

WE HEAR WISDOM, BUT IS IT THE HEARING OR THE ACTING UPON IT THAT MAKES A MAN WISE?

In proverbs we read where "Wisdom" is a name used for Jesus Christ, because He gives us wisdom. So the above saying could actually be read, "We hear Jesus Christ, but is it hearing of the acting on what He says that makes a man wise?" Relying on our understanding of doctrine is not the same as hearing from Him and acting on the instructions and teachings He gives you.

AS INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN TO A SERVANT, AND WISDOM AND PARABLES TO A SON, AND AS JOKES ARE GIVEN TO A FRIEND, SO I LOVE YOU IS SAID TO A BRIDE.

I love the above saying He gave me, because it really covers the type of relationships with have with our Lord, and how to tell you do have those types of relationships with him. Do you get instructions specifically for you from Him?? If you are indeed a servant of His you will be hearing instructions from Him which are personally for you!! He of course tells me what church to go to and when, and what ministries He wants me in and when, and He even helps me with what groceries to get when I go to the store and when to go to the store. Of course, I have been giving you the parables and saying that He gives me as a son to Him. And did you know that Isaac, the promised son to Abram, means laughter. The Lord has a great sense of humor, but His jokes are for His friends! Abraham was a friend of God, and Sarah thought is funny that God would give her a son at such a late age. What a sense of humor the Lord has. It all works out good, so long as your laughter (Isaac) does come along.

And of course, the most personal relationship of all is the marriage. I remember the first time the Lord told me, "Karl, I love you". I was heading toward a stop sign and my eyes got so filled with tears that I could hardly see the stop sign. Interesting - it was next to a church that a few year later would be the church I have been going to for over a decade now. It was on the street next to the building where He had me working in a Christian healing ministry for Him. I was in charge of putting out the signs for the ministry, and every time I put out the signs I looked at the exact spot where I first heard Him tell me, "I love you." It just doesn't get much more personal than that.

So that my friends is what a personal relationship with Jesus Christ looks like. He will personalize a relationship with anyone if they, like the verse explains, just open up to Him!
 
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Bob Estey

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Large segments of the evangelical churches in the West are moving from stressing relationship to stressing doctrine for salvation. Accepting a creed will not save you, a relationship with Jesus will. Some even berate someone who says they have "personal relationship with Jesus" and say this is found nowhere in scripture. But the fact is the opposite is found in scripture, when Jesus says, "I Never knew you".

Doctrine and creed will not save you, only a relationship with Jesus will. That is not to say that doctrine is not important, but the foundation of Salvation is a relationship.
Paul told us to pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:17). That would be evidence supporting what you are saying. I do think we need to discipline ourselves to live as the Lord taught us to live, if we are to find a lasting peace.
 
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Lambano

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Doctrine and creed will not save you, only a relationship with Jesus will. That is not to say that doctrine is not important, but the foundation of Salvation is a relationship.
I heard it said, and I wish I could remember who said it, "We are not saved by belief in a doctrine about Jesus Christ. We are saved by trusting in Jesus Christ."

Or something like that.
 

Karl Peters

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Paul told us to pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:17). That would be evidence supporting what you are saying. I do think we need to discipline ourselves to live as the Lord taught us to live, if we are to find a lasting peace.

Yes - but it might be better said that 'we need to discipline ourselves to live as the Lord teaches us to live'. If we are to live though our relationship with Jesus Christ then He is teaching us, as in present tense. It is written, "Today if you hear His voice." So "Today" is the day He is teaching us, right. :)
 
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Bob Estey

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Yes - but it might be better said that 'we need to discipline ourselves to live as the Lord teaches us to live'. If we are to live though our relationship with Jesus Christ then He is teaching us, as in present tense. It is written, "Today if you hear His voice." So "Today" is the day He is teaching us, right. :)
That's a fascinating thought. Yes, as we walk with the Lord, he is teaching us new things. It doesn't end with what he said in the Bible. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
 
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