Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

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Bible Highlighter

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Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of New Testament commands on day one of our service to be saved (after we are saved by God’s grace)?

The charge has been claimed by Belief Alone Salvationists that you must obey all of the New Testament commands (or that you must reach a state of Sinless Perfection whereby you can never sin again) in order for salvation by obedience to be valid after you are saved by God’s grace. This is why many believe that all you have to do is just believe in Jesus for salvation or the finished work of the cross and you are good to enter the Kingdom.

I believe the Bible teaches that Sanctification is a process of living holy by the Spirit. It’s why Romans 8:13 says but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit you will live (i.e. live eternally). 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. These verses would not make any sense if we were automatically perfectly obeying all of the Lord’s commands in the New Testament on day one and we could never slip up on rare occasion and break God’s commands ever again. Granted, I am not against a new believer being able to do that. I would be for the brethren doing that since day one if we had strong Christian leaders training new converts to obey in all things right away. But that’s not always the reality for everyone. The thief on the cross was saved without works. But for those who live out their faith: I believe God gives us grace and time to learn His Word and to study it so as to know His will and to learn how to obey God.

Abraham did not even fulfill the command by God to take his son’s life. Abraham did not sacrifice Isaac and yet God was telling him to do that. God was testing Abraham’s loyalty. So it’s a willingness of our heart to obey God. For example: We are told to make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost teaching them all things that Christ commanded. Can you do that on day one after you are saved? What if you are in the mountains and there is nobody but you and the other person who led you to Jesus? Again, can you know of all of what Christ commands on day one? I imagine in some circumstances you could (if you had the right teachers). But is one not saved while they are still learning of those commands and they are not obeying them yet? This is why I believe there is grace. This grace is not a license for immorality of us thinking we can willfully sin. No, no. Most certainly not. We must seek to obey God in everything. Why? Because it is a part of our faith. It is our willingness to obey that I believe God is looking at before we can learn of that command and put into action. I say this because how many of you here are obeying the great commission in baptizing others in the name of Jesus (i.e. the name (singular) that represents the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit)? That’s a command by Jesus. Are you doing it? Are you not saved because you have not done so yet? I don’t believe so. I believe God gives us grace and time to do those things He desires of us. We should pray and ask God for help to obey Him in all things.

This also does not mean that we do not have to obey God as a part of God’s plan of salvation, either. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel). The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. But the CALL of the gospel is our Sanctification (living holy by the Spirit and putting away sin and learning to know how to obey God), and continuing to believe the doctrines and or truths in the Bible.

Note: I believe that if a Christian sins (like say looking upon a woman in lust, or not forgiving someone), they must confess and forsake that sin. Believers need to strive to seek to obey all of God’s commands. This is a part of living by faith. If we are not seeking to obey God as a part of the Kingdom, we are simply seeking to be our own lords and masters. God calls us to obedience and to pick up our cross and to deny ourselves. We have to count the cost and we have to be willing to give up all for the Lord Jesus. Again, this takes time for many of us to learn. There are many tests of our faith along the way. Our faith is not always a walk in the park. Jesus said, strive to enter the straight gate (Luke 13:24). So yes. We should be striving to obey the commands that come from the Lord Jesus and His followers in the New Testament. But I believe God gives us grace to get there. For grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10).
 
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Behold

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This is a part of living by faith. .


"living by faith", is to be born again Righteous, based on God accepting your faith to give you "The Gift of Righteousness".

Discipleship, that you have confused with Salvation for the 100th time, as most newbie "bible scholars", always do, is to "present your body a living sacrifice", = BECAUSE you have already been REDEEMED, SAVED, = born again.

Baby Believer "scholars", like you, (as proven by your theology) never understand that Salvation is what God did for you, Through the CROSS, and Discipleship is all that self effort you obsess about that you do as a RESULT of being given "the Gift of Salvation".

They are not the same.

ONE is God's Gift of Salvation, and the other is what the born again person does BECAUSE they are born again., BibleHighligher.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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To all:

Some erroneously think discipleship is separate from salvation.

Lets read the Scriptures to see if that is true.

Matthew 16:24-26 says,
“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?”

One of the concluding points Jesus makes here on discipleship (of denying yourself, picking up your cross, and following Him) is in if you gain the whole world you will lose your own soul. This gaining of the whole world is tied to saving your life (for meeting your worldly dreams and living the life in serving the flesh) you will lose your soul. For the person who loses their life in following Jesus will find their life (i.e. everlasting life).

Luke 13:24 says,
“Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.”

Is this striving to enter the gate belief alone in the finished work of the cross according to the context?

“When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.” (Luke 13:25-28).

No. As you can see, it was those believers (i.e. they who said, Lord, Lord open to us) who did iniquity that were they were told to depart from Him because they were also workers of iniquity. They were thrust out and there was weeping and gnashing of teeth. So no. It was not because they did not have a belief alone in the finished work of the cross as to why they were cast out. The striving to enter the narrow gate has to do with living holy unto the Lord (with you not being a worker of iniquity).

Jesus is saying that many will seek to enter but they will not be able to. It’s because many today believe you can sin and still be saved on some level. They do not teach that you must obey God as a part of God’s plan of salvation.

Hebrews 10:36
“For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.”

So we need patience in that after we have done the will of God (by like doing what He says), you will receive the promise.
It’s not believing in the finished work of the cross or just saying you are born again and yet say one does not need to worry about sin or obedience to the Lord as a part of God’s plan of salvation.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of New Testament commands on day one of our service to be saved (after we are saved by God’s grace)?

The charge has been claimed by Belief Alone Salvationists that you must obey all of the New Testament commands (or that you must reach a state of Sinless Perfection whereby you can never sin again) in order for salvation by obedience to be valid after you are saved by God’s grace. This is why many believe that all you have to do is just believe in Jesus for salvation or the finished work of the cross and you are good to enter the Kingdom.

I believe the Bible teaches that Sanctification is a process of living holy by the Spirit. It’s why Romans 8:13 says but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit you will live (i.e. live eternally). 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. These verses would not make any sense if we were automatically perfectly obeying all of the Lord’s commands in the New Testament on day one and we could never slip up on rare occasion and break God’s commands ever again. Granted, I am not against a new believer being able to do that. I would be for the brethren doing that since day one if we had strong Christian leaders training new converts to obey in all things right away. But that’s not always the reality for everyone. The thief on the cross was saved without works. But for those who live out their faith: I believe God gives us grace and time to learn His Word and to study it so as to know His will and to learn how to obey God.

Abraham did not instantly grab a knife and try to kill Isaac the moment he heard the command from God. There was time that took place between Abraham hearing God’s command and in putting it forth into action at the right moment in time. Was Abraham not saved because he did not instantly grab a knife and seek to kill Isaac? No. God gave Abraham time. What mattered was Abraham’s willingness to obey and seeking to make that a reality in the proper way. In fact, Abraham did not even fulfill that command by God. Abraham did not sacrifice Isaac and yet God was telling him to do that. God was testing Abraham’s loyalty. So it’s a willingness of our heart to obey God (even when things may not even be possible to obey Him in the moment). For example: We are told to make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost teaching them all things that Christ commanded. Can you do that on day one after you are saved? What if you are in the mountains and there is nobody but you and the other person who led you to Jesus? Again, can you know of all of what Christ commands on day one? I imagine in some circumstances you could (if you had the right teachers). But is one not saved while they are still learning of those commands and they are not obeying them yet? This is why I believe there is grace. This grace is not a license for immorality of us thinking we can willfully sin. No, no. Most certainly not. We must seek to obey God in everything. Why? Because it is a part of our faith. It is our willingness to obey that I believe God is looking at before we can learn of that command and put into action. I say this because how many of you here are obeying the great commission in baptizing others in the name of Jesus (i.e. the name (singular) that represents the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit)? That’s a command by Jesus. Are you doing it? Are you not saved because you have not done so yet? I don’t believe so. I believe God gives us grace and time to do those things He desires of us. We should pray and ask God for help to obey Him in all things.

This also does not mean that we do not have to obey God as a part of God’s plan of salvation, either. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel). The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. But the CALL of the gospel is our Sanctification (living holy by the Spirit and putting away sin and learning to know how to obey God), and continuing to believe the doctrines and or truths in the Bible.

Note: I believe that if a Christian sins (like say looking upon a woman in lust, or not forgiving someone), they must confess and forsake that sin. Believers need to strive to seek to obey all of God’s commands. This is a part of living by faith. If we are not seeking to obey God as a part of the Kingdom, we are simply seeking to be our own lords and masters. God calls us to obedience and to pick up our cross and to deny ourselves. We have to count the cost and we have to be willing to give up all for the Lord Jesus. Again, this takes time for many of us to learn. There are many tests of our faith along the way. Our faith is not always a walk in the park. Jesus said, strive to enter the straight gate (Luke 13:24). So yes. We should be striving to obey the commands that come from the Lord Jesus and His followers in the New Testament. But I believe God gives us grace to get there. For grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10).


Well I am a believf alone salvationist (as you called it) and I know of no churches that hold to eternal security that teach that. The day we get saved we become a brand new creature and we are given teh mind of christ! However that does not make us instant theologians and experts on the word.

We grow as newborn babes, infants children, young men (women) and then mature adults in the faith. These re the goals of our frowing in grace and knowledge and should be the desire of our hearts to live in through the power of the Spirit. But it does take time to grow. For those who would argue, this is not a license to sin, but the reality that until we go home to be with the Lord we must wrestle with the fleshy attitudes of the old man though it is crucified!

God sees us as perfect already, because of Jesus! Now He is shaping us into what He sees us!

As SCripture says:

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

and:

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Keep running the race! Jesus promised we will make it to the finish line.
 

ScottA

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Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of New Testament commands on day one of our service to be saved (after we are saved by God’s grace)?

The charge has been claimed by Belief Alone Salvationists that you must obey all of the New Testament commands (or that you must reach a state of Sinless Perfection whereby you can never sin again) in order for salvation by obedience to be valid after you are saved by God’s grace. This is why many believe that all you have to do is just believe in Jesus for salvation or the finished work of the cross and you are good to enter the Kingdom.

I believe the Bible teaches that Sanctification is a process of living holy by the Spirit. It’s why Romans 8:13 says but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit you will live (i.e. live eternally). 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. These verses would not make any sense if we were automatically perfectly obeying all of the Lord’s commands in the New Testament on day one and we could never slip up on rare occasion and break God’s commands ever again. Granted, I am not against a new believer being able to do that. I would be for the brethren doing that since day one if we had strong Christian leaders training new converts to obey in all things right away. But that’s not always the reality for everyone. The thief on the cross was saved without works. But for those who live out their faith: I believe God gives us grace and time to learn His Word and to study it so as to know His will and to learn how to obey God.

Abraham did not instantly grab a knife and try to kill Isaac the moment he heard the command from God. There was time that took place between Abraham hearing God’s command and in putting it forth into action at the right moment in time. Was Abraham not saved because he did not instantly grab a knife and seek to kill Isaac? No. God gave Abraham time. What mattered was Abraham’s willingness to obey and seeking to make that a reality in the proper way. In fact, Abraham did not even fulfill that command by God. Abraham did not sacrifice Isaac and yet God was telling him to do that. God was testing Abraham’s loyalty. So it’s a willingness of our heart to obey God (even when things may not even be possible to obey Him in the moment). For example: We are told to make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost teaching them all things that Christ commanded. Can you do that on day one after you are saved? What if you are in the mountains and there is nobody but you and the other person who led you to Jesus? Again, can you know of all of what Christ commands on day one? I imagine in some circumstances you could (if you had the right teachers). But is one not saved while they are still learning of those commands and they are not obeying them yet? This is why I believe there is grace. This grace is not a license for immorality of us thinking we can willfully sin. No, no. Most certainly not. We must seek to obey God in everything. Why? Because it is a part of our faith. It is our willingness to obey that I believe God is looking at before we can learn of that command and put into action. I say this because how many of you here are obeying the great commission in baptizing others in the name of Jesus (i.e. the name (singular) that represents the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit)? That’s a command by Jesus. Are you doing it? Are you not saved because you have not done so yet? I don’t believe so. I believe God gives us grace and time to do those things He desires of us. We should pray and ask God for help to obey Him in all things.

This also does not mean that we do not have to obey God as a part of God’s plan of salvation, either. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel). The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. But the CALL of the gospel is our Sanctification (living holy by the Spirit and putting away sin and learning to know how to obey God), and continuing to believe the doctrines and or truths in the Bible.

Note: I believe that if a Christian sins (like say looking upon a woman in lust, or not forgiving someone), they must confess and forsake that sin. Believers need to strive to seek to obey all of God’s commands. This is a part of living by faith. If we are not seeking to obey God as a part of the Kingdom, we are simply seeking to be our own lords and masters. God calls us to obedience and to pick up our cross and to deny ourselves. We have to count the cost and we have to be willing to give up all for the Lord Jesus. Again, this takes time for many of us to learn. There are many tests of our faith along the way. Our faith is not always a walk in the park. Jesus said, strive to enter the straight gate (Luke 13:24). So yes. We should be striving to obey the commands that come from the Lord Jesus and His followers in the New Testament. But I believe God gives us grace to get there. For grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10).
Things are not what they appear.

sanc·ti·fi·ca·tion
/ˌsaNG(k)təfəˈkāSH(ə)n/
  1. the action of making or declaring something holy.
To be made holy, is an act of God--not a "process", as God is the same always. Thus sanctification is the act of God in "choosing" one for salvation after they have done their own part.

The "process" then, is not sanctification, but rather the battle that one is thrown into having the sword of Christ in them ("not peace but a sword") cutting both ways while being "alive and remaining" in your old body of sin, but also having new life by the spirit of God. This is what caused Paul to also say, "for me, to live is Christ"--not because he was claiming to be Jesus Christ, but because he had entered into the same battle with Him.

Which is not at all living perfectly as we define perfect, but because we stand with Christ in that same battle--it is rather counted as perfect, as He is perfect. The argument in looking at a person struggling in that battle, that many make, is that "Look, you have sin in your life, therefore you are not saved!" And yet if those same hypocrites were to look at Jesus with the sins of the world on Him, and say the same thing of Him--they would be ground to powder: "there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Meanwhile, sadly "a man’s enemies are those of his own household." Micah 7:6 / Matthew 10:36
 

Bible Highlighter

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Things are not what they appear.

sanc·ti·fi·ca·tion
/ˌsaNG(k)təfəˈkāSH(ə)n/
  1. the action of making or declaring something holy.
To be made holy, is an act of God--not a "process", as God is the same always. Thus sanctification is the act of God in "choosing" one for salvation after they have done their own part.

The "process" then, is not sanctification, but rather the battle that one is thrown into having the sword of Christ in them ("not peace but a sword") cutting both ways while being "alive and remaining" in your old body of sin, but also having new life by the spirit of God. This is what caused Paul to also say, "for me, to live is Christ"--not because he was claiming to be Jesus Christ, but because he had entered into the same battle with Him.

Which is not at all living perfectly as we define perfect, but because we stand with Christ in that same battle--it is rather counted as perfect, as He is perfect. The argument in looking at a person struggling in that battle, that many make, is that "Look, you have sin in your life, therefore you are not saved!" And yet if those same hypocrites were to look at Jesus with the sins of the world on Him, and say the same thing of Him--they would be ground to powder: "there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Meanwhile, sadly "a man’s enemies are those of his own household." Micah 7:6 / Matthew 10:36

Sanctification and it’s Synonyms in the Bible:

Sanctify:

John 17:17
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."


Ephesians 5:25-27
25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Related Verses:


"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." (John 15:3).

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit...". (1 Peter 1:22).

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word."
(Psalms 119:9)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

“But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).

Sanctify & Sanctified:

John 17:19
"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth."


Related Verses:


1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2).

“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6).

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps." (1 Peter 2:21).

Sanctification:

1 Thessalonians 4:3
"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:"


"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

"So all people who have this confidence in Christ keep themselves pure, as Christ is pure." (1 John 3:3 GW).

"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also." Matthew 23:26).

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." (Luke 6:45).

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." (Matthew 5:8).

Sanctification & Sanctified:

1 Thessalonians 4:4
"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;"


2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


Related Verses:


7 "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body." (2 Corinthians 4:7-10).

16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17).

I hope this study on Sanctification helps.

May God bless you.
And please be well.


 

ScottA

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Sanctification and it’s Synonyms in the Bible:

Sanctify:

John 17:17
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."


Ephesians 5:25-27
25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Related Verses:


"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." (John 15:3).

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit...". (1 Peter 1:22).

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word."
(Psalms 119:9)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

“But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).

Sanctify & Sanctified:

John 17:19
"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth."


Related Verses:


1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2).

“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6).

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps." (1 Peter 2:21).

Sanctification:

1 Thessalonians 4:3
"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:"


"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

"So all people who have this confidence in Christ keep themselves pure, as Christ is pure." (1 John 3:3 GW).

"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also." Matthew 23:26).

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." (Luke 6:45).

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." (Matthew 5:8).

Sanctification & Sanctified:

1 Thessalonians 4:4
"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;"


2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


Related Verses:


7 "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body." (2 Corinthians 4:7-10).

16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17).

I hope this study on Sanctification helps.

May God bless you.
And please be well.

All good counsel indeed.

But do not be so overtaken with the great amount of counsel for what was to be, that we forget what it is that now is in all who have since come to be in Christ and He in them.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Well I am a believf alone salvationist (as you called it) and I know of no churches that hold to eternal security that teach that. The day we get saved we become a brand new creature and we are given teh mind of christ! However that does not make us instant theologians and experts on the word.

We grow as newborn babes, infants children, young men (women) and then mature adults in the faith. These re the goals of our frowing in grace and knowledge and should be the desire of our hearts to live in through the power of the Spirit. But it does take time to grow. For those who would argue, this is not a license to sin, but the reality that until we go home to be with the Lord we must wrestle with the fleshy attitudes of the old man though it is crucified!

God sees us as perfect already, because of Jesus! Now He is shaping us into what He sees us!

As SCripture says:

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

and:

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Keep running the race! Jesus promised we will make it to the finish line.

I believe in the new creation or the new birth of the believer. Believers are changed and they have new hearts and new desires.
But I do not see this as a violation of their free will.

I see things as Synergistic in that both God and the believer work together and walk together. It’s not all God and yet it’s not all the believer, either. Believers have to cooperate with God. We are not puppets on strings doing things against our own will. Yet, we cannot obey God in all his commands in the New Testament without God.

As for Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism: Well, the Bible teaches against it in many places. Read the Parable of the Talents, The Sheep and the Goats, Titus 3:14, 1 Timothy 5:8, James 2:17, James 2:24. In fact, if you were to compare James 2:21 of Abraham being justified by works in offering Isaac upon the altar, you would learn in Hebrews 11:17 that it was BY FAITH Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. BY FAITH Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. BY FAITH. So Abraham did a work that was a description of his faith. Romans 5:1 says therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God. Romans 5:2 says we have access to His grace through faith. But what does that faith look like? It looks like the same faith that Abraham had and Noah had. BY FAITH… Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his household.

As for Eternal Security: The Bible does not teach this even remotely. Paul says he keeps his body under subjection otherwise he will be castaway while he preached to others. (1 Corinthians 9:27). We are told to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12). A person can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4). A person can set frustrate (break apart, or nullify) the grace of God (Galatians 2:21). A person can shipwreck their faith (1 Timothy 1:19). Why would Jesus warn us against certain sins destroying our soul if we are eternally secure? (See: Matthew 6:15, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, etcetera). Even the apostle Paul says if any man provides not for his own he is worse than an infidel (unbeliever) and he has denied the faith (1 Timothy 5:8). Only a believer who does this can be worse than unbeliever.
 

Bible Highlighter

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All good counsel indeed.

But do not be so overtaken with the great amount of counsel for what was to be, that we forget what it is that now is in all who have since come to be in Christ and He in them.

If it’s not written… then it’s not of value. I believe the Bible Alone + the Anointing to Understand It. Extra biblical information is no way to build the faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God.
 
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ScottA

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If it’s not written… then it’s not of value. I believe the Bible Alone + the Anointing to Understand It. Extra biblical information is no way to build the faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God.
That either sounds defensive or accusatorial.

Just because you gave a mountain of scripture and I did not, why do you not recognize that I was in fact quoting the scriptures?

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.​
 

Bible Highlighter

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That either sounds defensive or accusatorial.

Just because you gave a mountain of scripture and I did not, why do you not recognize that I was in fact quoting the scriptures?

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.​

But you offered worldly wisdom and not Scripture when you said, I quote:
.
The "process" then, is not sanctification,” ~ Quote by: ScottA​

Yet, that is what we see describe by the verses I shown to you on Sanctification.
 

ScottA

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But you offered worldly wisdom and not Scripture when you said, I quote:
.
The "process" then, is not sanctification,” ~ Quote by: ScottA​

Yet, that is what we see describe by the verses I shown to you on Sanctification.
No, but that is only your perception.

If you want to consider the events of "a time, times, and half at time" a "process"...that is indeed the perception from the world's side of the equation. But I was speaking to sanctification as not being of the world--which it is not, and no scripture says it is; but is rather of God who chooses those He sanctifies stopping the clocks of this world with regard to that person and commences the beginning of life eternal in Christ in Him.

You have made a case for the sanctification of God as being according to the ways of men. For which, if you insist, I will quote another scripture:

Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.​
 

Robert Gwin

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Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of New Testament commands on day one of our service to be saved (after we are saved by God’s grace)?

The charge has been claimed by Belief Alone Salvationists that you must obey all of the New Testament commands (or that you must reach a state of Sinless Perfection whereby you can never sin again) in order for salvation by obedience to be valid after you are saved by God’s grace. This is why many believe that all you have to do is just believe in Jesus for salvation or the finished work of the cross and you are good to enter the Kingdom.

I believe the Bible teaches that Sanctification is a process of living holy by the Spirit. It’s why Romans 8:13 says but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit you will live (i.e. live eternally). 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. These verses would not make any sense if we were automatically perfectly obeying all of the Lord’s commands in the New Testament on day one and we could never slip up on rare occasion and break God’s commands ever again. Granted, I am not against a new believer being able to do that. I would be for the brethren doing that since day one if we had strong Christian leaders training new converts to obey in all things right away. But that’s not always the reality for everyone. The thief on the cross was saved without works. But for those who live out their faith: I believe God gives us grace and time to learn His Word and to study it so as to know His will and to learn how to obey God.

Abraham did not instantly grab a knife and try to kill Isaac the moment he heard the command from God. There was time that took place between Abraham hearing God’s command and in putting it forth into action at the right moment in time. Was Abraham not saved because he did not instantly grab a knife and seek to kill Isaac? No. God gave Abraham time. What mattered was Abraham’s willingness to obey and seeking to make that a reality in the proper way. In fact, Abraham did not even fulfill that command by God. Abraham did not sacrifice Isaac and yet God was telling him to do that. God was testing Abraham’s loyalty. So it’s a willingness of our heart to obey God (even when things may not even be possible to obey Him in the moment). For example: We are told to make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost teaching them all things that Christ commanded. Can you do that on day one after you are saved? What if you are in the mountains and there is nobody but you and the other person who led you to Jesus? Again, can you know of all of what Christ commands on day one? I imagine in some circumstances you could (if you had the right teachers). But is one not saved while they are still learning of those commands and they are not obeying them yet? This is why I believe there is grace. This grace is not a license for immorality of us thinking we can willfully sin. No, no. Most certainly not. We must seek to obey God in everything. Why? Because it is a part of our faith. It is our willingness to obey that I believe God is looking at before we can learn of that command and put into action. I say this because how many of you here are obeying the great commission in baptizing others in the name of Jesus (i.e. the name (singular) that represents the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit)? That’s a command by Jesus. Are you doing it? Are you not saved because you have not done so yet? I don’t believe so. I believe God gives us grace and time to do those things He desires of us. We should pray and ask God for help to obey Him in all things.

This also does not mean that we do not have to obey God as a part of God’s plan of salvation, either. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (Which is a call of the gospel). The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. But the CALL of the gospel is our Sanctification (living holy by the Spirit and putting away sin and learning to know how to obey God), and continuing to believe the doctrines and or truths in the Bible.

Note: I believe that if a Christian sins (like say looking upon a woman in lust, or not forgiving someone), they must confess and forsake that sin. Believers need to strive to seek to obey all of God’s commands. This is a part of living by faith. If we are not seeking to obey God as a part of the Kingdom, we are simply seeking to be our own lords and masters. God calls us to obedience and to pick up our cross and to deny ourselves. We have to count the cost and we have to be willing to give up all for the Lord Jesus. Again, this takes time for many of us to learn. There are many tests of our faith along the way. Our faith is not always a walk in the park. Jesus said, strive to enter the straight gate (Luke 13:24). So yes. We should be striving to obey the commands that come from the Lord Jesus and His followers in the New Testament. But I believe God gives us grace to get there. For grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10).

Of course not sir. In fact, I He knows that even after many years of faithful service not one of us will. That was actually the purpose of the law covenant, to prove that imperfect man cannot live up to God's statutes. It was a tutor leading to the Christ. You are absolutely correct that we should do our utmost to obey the commandments, and of course no person has to commit a serious sin, those are all done by choice, Jehovah makes the way out for those. Most likely when you are put into the position of committing one of them, you see the way out He has provided, it is up to us. Most of the time that simply involves walking away.
 

Daydreamer

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Can you do that on day one after you are saved? What if you are in the mountains and there is nobody but you and the other person who led you to Jesus? Again, can you know of all of what Christ commands on day one? I imagine in some circumstances you could (if you had the right teachers). But is one not saved while they are still learning of those commands and they are not obeying them yet? This is why I believe there is grace. .
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15
 

Daydreamer

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The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds
.”b]">[b]

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.” Heb10:15-17

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a]">[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:4-6
 

Ronald Nolette

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As for Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism: Well, the Bible teaches against it in many places. Read the Parable of the Talents, The Sheep and the Goats, Titus 3:14, 1 Timothy 5:8, James 2:17, James 2:24. In fact, if you were to compare James 2:21 of Abraham being justified by works in offering Isaac upon the altar, you would learn in Hebrews 11:17 that it was BY FAITH Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. BY FAITH Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. BY FAITH. So Abraham did a work that was a description of his faith. Romans 5:1 says therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God. Romans 5:2 says we have access to His grace through faith. But what does that faith look like? It looks like the same faith that Abraham had and Noah had. BY FAITH… Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his household.

It apparently teaches against it in som ewplaces. When one studies deeper they find out it doesn't teach a loss of salvation at all.

Free will is restored when someone comes to faith!
 

Ronald Nolette

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As for Eternal Security: The Bible does not teach this even remotely. Paul says he keeps his body under subjection otherwise he will be castaway while he preached to others. (1 Corinthians 9:27). We are told to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12). A person can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4). A person can set frustrate (break apart, or nullify) the grace of God (Galatians 2:21). A person can shipwreck their faith (1 Timothy 1:19). Why would Jesus warn us against certain sins destroying our soul if we are eternally secure? (See: Matthew 6:15, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, etcetera). Even the apostle Paul says if any man provides not for his own he is worse than an infidel (unbeliever) and he has denied the faith (1 Timothy 5:8). Only a believer who does this can be worse than unbeliever.

Eternal security is the core of salvation!

Teh old man is dead,
The new man is being conformed to jesus
God will finish what he started
We are given eternal life to never perish
we are perfected forever.
Jesus blood paid the debt for all my sin not just most.
Believers are elected from teh foundation of teh world.
God has removed all our sin as far as the east is from the west.
We are now children of god!
We have eternal life- not probationary eternal life.
We are dead and our life is hidden with Christ in god
When Jesus appears we WILL appear with Him.
We are alreacy seated in heavenly places
We are justified
we are glorified
Sin cannot remove what is kept in heaven for us!

It is not a license to sin- we don't need a license to sin- we do it by default, but we are new creatures, learning ot live new lives
 

Bible Highlighter

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The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds
.”b]">[b]

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.” Heb10:15-17

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a]">[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:4-6

This would be the 613 laws of Moses as a whole or package deal.
New Covenant believers are not under the whole of the 613 laws of Moses.
It does not mean we are not under moral laws as a part of eternal life (After we are saved by God's grace).

Just because the moral laws (like do not steal, do not murder, do not covet, etc.) that come from the Old Law and have been repeated into the New Testament does not mean that the keeping of these particular laws do not apply to our salvation. We know this because Jesus Himself was making changes to the Old Law at the Sermon on the Mount, and He made it clear both in Matthew 19:17-19 and in Luke 10:25-28 that loving God, and loving your neighbor (Which naturally includes obedience to the moral laws like do not covet, do not steal, etc - Romans 13:8-10) is a part of eternal life. The apostle Paul said that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Even the apostle Paul himself had said in Galatians 6:8-9,

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

Not sure if you caught what this passage says.

#1. Sowing to the Spirit = reaping everlasting life. So it's not just a belief alone in Jesus.
#2. We are to not be weary (or not tired) in “well doing” (good works of the Spirit done through us),
#3. For we will reap if we do not faint in this well doing.

The question is: Reap what by our well doing?

Everlasting life.
Sowing to the Spirit is then defined by verse 9 in that it is called “well doing” (good works by the Spirit).

In 1 Timothy 5:8, Paul says,

“But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

This is a good work that you have to do. Because if you don't do this good work above in 1 Timothy 5:8, then you have denied the faith, and you are worse than an infidel (unbeliever). You cannot be a fake believer (who really is an unbeliever in disguise) and be worse than unbeliever. An unbeliever cannot be worse than another unbeliever. Only a person who was once a believer and who did something wrong can be worse than an unbeliever. So 1 Timothy 5:8 is talking about how we need to do the good work of providing for our own. This again proves that salvation is not just in a belief alone in Jesus our whole lives. Faith is also defined in the Bible in Hebrews 11:7 in that BY FAITH Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his house. Romans 5:1 says, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God. Romans 5:2 says we have access to his grace through faith. So you need to have the faith of Noah, too. Noah built the ark by faith. It was a lot work to build that ark. Yet, it was a part of his faith. Faith is how we access God's saving grace. Yes, faith starts off as a belief alone in our Initial Salvation in being saved by God's grace, but it does not remain that way. Faith continues in having the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). For by our works it makes our faith perfect (James 2:22). Jesus did not find a particular church's works perfect before God in Revelation 3:2. They were said to have a name that was alive, but they were dead (i.e. dead spiritually) (Revelation 3:1).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Eternal security is the core of salvation!

Teh old man is dead,
The new man is being conformed to jesus
God will finish what he started
We are given eternal life to never perish
we are perfected forever.
Jesus blood paid the debt for all my sin not just most.
Believers are elected from teh foundation of teh world.
God has removed all our sin as far as the east is from the west.
We are now children of god!
We have eternal life- not probationary eternal life.
We are dead and our life is hidden with Christ in god
When Jesus appears we WILL appear with Him.
We are alreacy seated in heavenly places
We are justified
we are glorified
Sin cannot remove what is kept in heaven for us!

It is not a license to sin- we don't need a license to sin- we do it by default, but we are new creatures, learning ot live new lives

Yes, you need to believe in the blood for salvation (Romans 3:25), but you also have to believe 1 John 1:7, too.

1 John 1:7 says if you walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

What is walking in the light?

1 John 2:9-11 by the indirect wording lets us know that loving your brother = walking in the light.

So you have to love your brother in order for the blood of Jesus to continue to cleanse you from all sin.

If you decide to not walk in the light, you are no longer saved.

The word IF is conditional.
 
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