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Does your vote in 2020 really matter- most likely not

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by tooldtocare, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. tooldtocare

    tooldtocare Active Member

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    Does your vote in 2020 really matter- most likely not

    USA 1016 election
    Here are the final numbers:

    Clinton received 65,844,610 votes, or 48.2% of the total vote.
    Trump received 62,979,636 votes, or 46.1% of the total vote. (That's a difference of 2.86 million votes.)
    Here is the final popular vote count of the 2016 election just in case you want to feel bad

    It was the Electoral College that got Trump into the White House, not the U.S. citizens vote.

    So folks, it matters not how you vote but if you don’t vote you have so say in the matter.

    Are You Going To Vote & why

    Thanks in advance

    :)-
     
  2. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    The Constitution of the United States calls for the Electoral College to determine presidential elections. The article below gives a good explanation of why this is. I've seen both sides complain about its use depending on whose candidate received the most electoral votes, so this is not a strictly partisan issue.

    In Defense of the Electoral College


    James Madison’s famous Federalist No. 10 makes clear that the Founders fashioned a republic, not a pure democracy. To be sure, they knew that the consent of the governed was the ultimate basis of government, but the Founders denied that such consent could be reduced to simple majority or plurality rule. In fact, nothing could be more alien to the spirit of American constitutionalism than equating democracy will the direct, unrefined will of the people.

    Recall the ways our constitution puts limits on any unchecked power, including the arbitrary will of the people. Power at the national level is divided among the three branches, each reflecting a different constituency. Power is divided yet again between the national government and the states. Madison noted that these twofold divisions -- the separation of powers and federalism -- provided a “double security” for the rights of the people.

    What about the democratic principle of one person, one vote? Isn’t that principle essential to our form of government? The Founders’ handiwork says otherwise. Neither the Senate, nor the Supreme Court, nor the president is elected on the basis of one person, one vote. That’s why a state like Montana, with 883,000 residents, gets the same number of Senators as California, with 33 million people. Consistency would require that if we abolish the Electoral College, we rid ourselves of the Senate as well. Are we ready to do that?

    The filtering of the popular will through the Electoral College is an affirmation, rather than a betrayal, of the American republic. Doing away with the Electoral College would breach our fidelity to the spirit of the Constitution, a document expressly written to thwart the excesses of majoritarianism. Nonetheless, such fidelity will strike some as blind adherence to the past. For those skeptics, I would point out two other advantages the Electoral College offers.

    First, we must keep in mind the likely effects of direct popular election of the president. We would probably see elections dominated by the most populous regions of the country or by several large metropolitan areas. In the 2000 election, for example, Vice President Gore could have put together a plurality or majority in the Northeast, parts of the Midwest, and California.

    The victims in such elections would be those regions too sparsely populated to merit the attention of presidential candidates. Pure democrats would hardly regret that diminished status, but I wonder if a large and diverse nation should write off whole parts of its territory. We should keep in mind the regional conflicts that have plagued large and diverse nations like India, China, and Russia. The Electoral College is a good antidote to the poison of regionalism because it forces presidential candidates to seek support throughout the nation. By making sure no state will be left behind, it provides a measure of coherence to our nation.

    Second, the Electoral College makes sure that the states count in presidential elections. As such, it is an important part of our federalist system -- a system worth preserving. Historically, federalism is central to our grand constitutional effort to restrain power, but even in our own time we have found that devolving power to the states leads to important policy innovations (welfare reform).

    If the Founders had wished to create a pure democracy, they would have done so. Those who now wish to do away with the Electoral College are welcome to amend the Constitution, but if they succeed, they will be taking America further away from its roots as a constitutional republic.

    Source: In Defense of the Electoral College
     
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  3. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Hey, TooOld. God bless, and long time no talking to you.

    Yeah, I think it really does matter. No one thought Trump was going to win in 2016. They weren't giving him much of a chance in the polls. But as they say, "That's why they play the game." It can look like a sure win (or a sure loss) according to all the odds, but sometimes a person can pull victory out of the jaws of defeat.

    That having said, I think intensive prayer for our nation can actually matter more, don't you? I'm guessing you would likely rather a Trump supporter pray than vote anyway, yes? :)
     
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  4. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    If you will go back through the Clinton campaign's rhetoric for 2016, there is almost a constant chatter about her campaign boasting about "Hillary's path to 270." The Electoral College is ALL she bragged about...….. UNTIL the counting was over. Then she began whining about "the popular vote."
     
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  5. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    I voted for the non partisan candidate because they didn't have any support from corporate America. However, after seeing just how completely insane Republicans and liberal Democrats became afterwards, and continue to be to this day, I am definitely going to be voting for Trump in the next election. Anyone who can tick off everyone is doing something right. Watching the media outlets lie through their teeth has become quite entertaining lately. They talk of getting rid of the fake news, but there is nothing as fake as network news stories. It's like watching the Onion now.

    Princeton did a study going back some 40 years, and proved that it makes absolutely no difference who you vote for in the House or Senate at any level of government. They always vote for the corporate interests. Your vote makes no difference at all, and probably never has.
     
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  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    They're certainly harder to trust. I recall reading of a prophecy somewhere where the Lord was declaring that His heart was moved by the White House and cared about who resided in it because of some of the great men of God who have held the office down through history. The halls of Congress did not hold near the same place in His heart.
     
  7. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    The position doesn't make the man, the man makes the position. I can't figure Trump out at all. I remember hearing him talk 30 or 40 years ago, and he sounded so much more intelligent back then. Now he sounds like he's becoming senile. I think its all an act to confuse everyone. It keeps everyone guessing and nervous. I especially loved how he had the dems dancing over an air strike in Iran, and then he just nixed it altogether. That's when I began to suspect he's just screwing with them. He may be outsmarting them at their own game. If that's the case, the guy is a genius.
     
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  8. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Not everyone picks up on it, but he plays the media relentlessly. The best way to judge a politician is by his actions anyway, since they can and will say anything to get and stay elected, and I still have a hard time understanding why Christians have a problem with His actions. We've never had a President that was more pro-Christian than this since... I dunno, I'd have to go back a very long ways... possibly to the time (dare I say it) of the founding fathers. As far as his public image, he's atrocious. Where his actions are concerned, it's been a very long time since we've had it this good, and we may never again after he's gone.
     
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  9. Josho

    Josho Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    Well lucky me, I don't have to vote in 2020. If I were an American citizen though, tough choices, and I wouldn't know who to vote for.

    :D
     
  10. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    We have a General election coming up next month and I really don't know which party to vote for. Usually I voted on a local level for the person not the party but my MP has disappointed me this time. I have usually voted Labour but I do not like Jeremy Corbyn and would not him as Prime Minister. I have prayed about it this morning, asking for guidance. Our UK politics are in chaos at present with the Brexit issue. I think our voting system is a lot different to the US.
     
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  11. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    If you apply for citizenship, you can always run yourself!

    Vote For Josho In 2020!!! Make Australia... I mean America great again!!!
     
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  12. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Oops, my bad. I just remembered, you have to be born here.
    Oh well, another great idea foiled by a minor technicality.
     
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  13. Josho

    Josho Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    I have always voted for the minor parties here in Australia. Our voting system is highly unique, and is based on preferences, so the candidate with the most first preferences doesn't necessarily always win, but the candidate coming 2nd on first preferences can win, if they have a good number of 2nd and 3rd preferences.

    I voted Democratic Labour Party in the last election, no one from that party got elected, but I like what they stand for, they are pro-life, pro-family, pro- Local Businesses, and they are much more compassionate on genuine refugees than the Australian Liberal party and are way better than the Australian Labor Party of course.

    That Brexit situation in the UK though has really frozen the British parliament, ever since the Brexit Yes vote won by a referendum.
     
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  14. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    If you're a hardcore Democrat or Republican, your vote won't matter that much. If you live in states that always go Democratic or Republican, your vote won't matter that much. The people whose votes matter the most are swing voters in swing states.

    I have been tracking the polls. I only tracked Trump versus Biden. If someone else gets the Democratic nomination, I'll adjust the polls accordingly. Right now, things look awfully dim for Trump in the swing states. There's been a shift of over 9%. That means in states where Trump won by a few percent, Biden would win in 2020. None of the swing states Clinton carried are leaning now to the Republicans.

    For example, Trump won Iowa by over 9%. Biden leads him now by 2%. That's only 6 electoral votes however. Texas is more important; and Trump won there about slightly under 9%. Biden's ahead there now by 3%. Ohio isn't looking for Trump either. There are five other states Trump won in 2016 that lean towards Biden now.

    How the independent voters vote in the swing states Trump won in 2016 will be critical. So far it looks to me as if he thinks he can win again by appealing to his base alone, neglecting the moderate swing voters.

    Biden could mess up spectacularly however. He's been making terrible gaffes. They haven't made big news so far; but if he's the candidate, he could easily lose by making silly remarks that alienate the independent voters. Warren and Saunders also may be too far to the left to appeal to swing voters.
     
  15. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Only problem with this prediction is that Biden won't be the nominee.
     
  16. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    People had to struggle to get the right to vote. So vote, the alternative is to live in a political system that pays no regard to your views and does what the political elite wants.

    Yes some will say that happens anyway. You have the right to communicate with your representatives, in totalitarian states you don't have that right.

    If you want democracy you and only you can keep it by using it.
     
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  17. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    I have always voted. Lots of people say why bother, they're all the same etc. but I always give it some thought and vote for the candidate I consider to be the best for the job. We just have one vote which is between the various candidates who are standing for their parties in the local areas. The party which get the most candidates elected throughout the country forms the government with their leader becoming Prime Minister.
     
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  18. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Mark Twain's comments on this subject are about as true as any can be. "If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it"
     
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  19. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Mark Twain sounds very cynical as do many of the electorate today. But I'll still vote. If you don't vote you can't complain when they get it wrong. ;)
     
  20. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    What you say could easily be true. He had been against being aligned with any super PACs. That changed when his campaign wasn't raising enough money from the "little guys." GO ahead, laugh at the hypocrisy, I did.:p His son's shennigans also look terribly suspicious. Oh yes, now his son resigned from that cushy Chinese company that was paying him for doing who knows what -- as if that fixes anything. Biden's been having a tough time lately, what with being refused Communion in South Carolina over his abortion stance.

    Harris just closed offices in New Hampshire, perhaps to focus more on Iowa? Who knows how long she'll hang in there, but I think all the black candidates were having trouble raising money. I expect she'll drop out soon.

    Warren had been going up in the polls; but she's now going down. Somehow I also doubt if Sanders can make it. Could Buttigieg win the nomination?
     
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