Drawing the wrong conclusions

[Episkopos]

When we buy a property, we can claim that everything on that property is now ours. We have this thing about ownership. We see something and we ask...how much does it cost?

We do the same thing with the bible. We purchase a bible...or get a free copy...and then proceed to do the same thing with it. Anything that we deem we want within it's pages...we claim for ourselves.

When we find that the grace of God is given freely...we immediately claim the free stuff for ourselves. After all, it is OUR bible, and anything that we want in it is ours for the taking.

So we bring the same covetous attitude to the bible that we use in the world...to get what WE want.

How can this not be a recipe for disaster? Is God playing to our covetousness? Is He being a salesman and wanting to increase church membership?

So we make a god in our own selfish image. What we do...we expect God to do. We ignore the fact that God is fully other...completely different from us. His ways are far above our own.
Yet we don't allow for a change of carnal reasoning in regards to eternal truth. We forget the the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Instead we build on that faulty selfish reasoning thus drawing all the wrong conclusions to what we are reading in the bible.

Few can just read what the bible is saying in it's own context. Few can receive the truth.

 

[Nancy]

When we buy a property, we can claim that everything on that property is now ours. We have this thing about ownership. We see something and we ask...how much does it cost?

We do the same thing with the bible. We purchase a bible...or get a free copy...and then proceed to do the same thing with it. Anything that we deem we want within it's pages...we claim for ourselves.

When we find that the grace of God is given freely...we immediately claim the free stuff for ourselves. After all, it is OUR bible, and anything that we want in it is ours for the taking.

So we bring the same covetous attitude to the bible that we use in the world...to get what WE want.

How can this not be a recipe for disaster? Is God playing to our covetousness? Is He being a salesman and wanting to increase church membership?

So we make a god in our own selfish image. What we do...we expect God to do. We ignore the fact that God is fully other...completely different from us. His ways are far above our own.
Yet we don't allow for a change of carnal reasoning in regards to eternal truth. We forget the the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Instead we build on that faulty selfish reasoning thus drawing all the wrong conclusions to what we are reading in the bible.

Few can just read what the bible is saying in it's own context. Few can receive the truth.

"Anything that we deem we want within it's pages...we claim for ourselves.

When we find that the grace of God is given freely...we immediately claim the free stuff for ourselves. After all, it is OUR bible, and anything that we want in it is ours for the taking.

So we bring the same covetous attitude to the bible that we use in the world...to get what WE want."

Are you speaking of Christians in all denominations.? Or just the TV evangelistic ones who "purchase" prayers and blessings, and healings, and prayer cloth's for themselves, honestly believing these charlatans, and their natural greed for "stuff" for me, me, me...
Now, I'm not saying all those people are greedy as they are there for their loved ones and friends as well.

"How can this not be a recipe for disaster? Is God playing to our covetousness? Is He being a salesman and wanting to increase church membership?"

I can see it as being a disaster to the person who practices this coveting way.
no, and no.

"So we make a god in our own selfish image. What we do...we expect God to do. We ignore the fact that God is fully other...completely different from us. His ways are far above our own.
Yet we don't allow for a change of carnal reasoning. Instead we build on that faulty reasoning thus drawing all the wrong conclusions to what we are reading in the bible."

This reminds me of how certain people I am close to pray. It's like they are "telling" God how to answer a certain prayer. I know the heart of these people are sincere yet, I cringe sometimes during group prayer when they pray. I know, silly...lol!

"Yet we don't allow for a change of carnal reasoning. "

And, I agree that alone will stop us dead in our tracks. If someone cannot understand and get past this carnal reasoning, they will not grow. Not saying it is an easy thing to overcome, especially if you've come to The Lord later in life. But then, "All things are possible..."
♥

 

[Episkopos]

Now if I was to list all the wrong conclusions people make when reading the bible here...I would die of old age before completing the list. Yes, there is that much delusion in the church. And there doesn't seem to be any way to bring back the truth as something valuable and precious. Instead the selfish consumers of religiosity just sneer. And since they are in the majority...the leaders go with what pays the bills. Few of the leaders...in any regard...know anything other than what is taught by men. They are after numbers, not truth...or they would be out of business.

So here is a popular verse that seems to say one thing...but means something ENTIRELY different. (of course many will disagree...but the truth is eternal and will outlast all oppositions)

Very few will understand this of course.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Point 1. Normally people use this verse in a selfish way...by making this sound like...this is all I have to do. Or...this is the work of man...

But the verse says that this is the work of God.

So it is something that only God can do.

And what is that?

Point 2. "That we believe INTO Jesus". There is a mystery here...that few care to recognize.

The little word in Greek "eis" which means a change of location..."to" or "into" is translated using words that make more sense in English...but destroy the scandal....the difficulties...raised up in the Greek wording....and meaning.

So there is a problem in our bible translations. It's in the details. But how can you explain the miraculous process of being IN another person using words that can easily be misinterpreted by selfish people? Well, you can't.

The truth needs those who have entered into Christ to explain it.

So then the miraculous work of God (grace) brings us into Christ...so that we experience His life.

Another similar verse that is misunderstood is..

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on (to, into) me hath everlasting life.


We who believe into Jesus are now experiencing HIS eternal kind of life. That is the truth. This is about entering into the miraculous life of Jesus right now. But of course this is taken to mean if you have a religious belief about Jesus that you will have eternal life after you die. That is the selfish way of getting the bible wrong. People call this assurance of salvation... a man-made selfish doctrine that is erroneously cobbled together from drawing the wrong conclusions from certain selected verses.

 

[Episkopos]

Are you speaking of Christians in all denominations.? Or just the TV evangelistic ones who "purchase" prayers and blessings, and healings, and prayer cloth's for themselves, honestly believing these charlatans, and their natural greed for "stuff" for me, me, me...
Now, I'm not saying all those people are greedy as they are there for their loved ones and friends as well.

Yes, every denomination. It shows how ineffectual statements of faith are. It's about the attitude. There is no statement or organization that can alter an attitude. It's a heart thing. It's something we each need to take seriously.

 

[Episkopos]

Besides getting the bible wrong....we also do the same thing with spiritual experiences.

As in...I have experienced such and such miraculous provision or visitation...therefore (add in erroneous conclusion here).

God gives us samples of things to bring us into His life. It's about life, not experiences. If you are walking in His life you are walking in a perpetual visitation.... a perpetual experiencing of God.

So then a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

We are not more special because we have received more experiences from God. We will actually be held to a higher accountability for it. But many of us need to be kick-started, as it were, to get int the faith. And then with greater experience comes the need to share Christ with others. As in...woe is me if I preach not the gospel.

God is fair. God is righteous. He has HIS own reasons for doing things. Let us not draw the wrong conclusions.

 

[Episkopos]

We can also draw the wrong conclusions when we don't have spiritual experiences or visitations.

God knows what to give us....and when. It is better to believe without seeing. We may not be able to handle the responsibility of seeing so much. So that the visitation of one person is meant for all. The gifts of the body are for all the body. A certain gift is not for THAT person. Again, we have to look at the selfish motive that is behind the carnal nature in us all. We need to see the gifts for others....not ourselves. We can benefit from the gifts of others...not our own.

We are each responsible for what we have been given. If only a little...then we will be held to a lower standard. If much...then more responsibility.


So then it is very possible that the one who has the gifting, loses out and the one receiving the blessing of the gift of the other...getting it right and winning out! It's always about the heart!

And then there is the idea that if you receive a prophet in the name of a prophet...you get a prophet's reward. God's gifts multiply just like the feeding of the thousands with the loaves and fish. So there is no need to be jealous of others and their spiritual experiences and gifts.

 

[CoreIssue]

Revelation 21:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Revelation 21 is talking about new heaven, new earth and the new Jerusalem.

Add to that our individual rewards.

In eternity to come that is everything, Both individual and jointly.

 

[CoreIssue]

We can also draw the wrong conclusions when we don't have spiritual experiences or visitations.

God knows what to give us....and when. It is better to believe without seeing. We may not be able to handle the responsibility of seeing so much. So that the visitation of one person is meant for all. The gifts of the body are for all the body. A certain gift is not for THAT person. Again, we have to look at the selfish motive that is behind the carnal nature in us all. We need to see the gifts for others....not ourselves. We can benefit from the gifts of others...not our own.

We are each responsible for what we have been given. If only a little...then we will be held to a lower standard. If much...then more responsibility.


So then it is very possible that the one who has the gifting, loses out and the one receiving the blessing of the gift of the other...getting it right! It's always about the heart!

And then there is the idea that if you receive a prophet in the name of a prophet...you get a prophet's reward. God's gifts multiply just like the feeding of the thousands with the loaves and fish. So there is no need to be jealous of others and their spiritual experiences and gifts.

More Gnosticism.

 

[Episkopos]

Revelation 21:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Revelation 21 is talking about new heaven, new earth and the new Jerusalem.

In eternity to come that is everything.

But the condition of that eternity is to walk in eternal life and power now. If we overcome as Jesus overcame (instead of this silly doctrine that Jesus overcame for us or instead of us) then God will allow us to rule with Christ.

People that are betting on a good outcome for a mediocre performance on earth are trying to make a detour around..."you shall reap what you have sown"

And I'm not talking about a fleshly performance. I'm talking about the works of faith. The works prepared in advance that we SHOULD walk in them.

 

[Episkopos]

More Gnosticism.

You are confusing gnosticism...which you actually espouse. with "epignosis" which I am displaying. It is true knowledge of the living God.

Epignosis

• Bible /

• Epiginosko
• Epigraphe

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1922 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
epignosiß from (1921)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Epignosis 1:689,119
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ep-ig'-no-sis Noun Feminine
Definition

1. precise and correct knowledge
   1. used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine

NAS Word Usage - Total: 20
acknowledge* 1, knowledge 14, real knowledge 1, true knowledge 4

NAS Verse Count
Romans 3
Ephesians 2
Philippians 1
Colossians 4
1 Timothy 1
2 Timothy 2
Titus 1
Philemon 1
Hebrews 1
[URL='https://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/passage/?q=2pe+1:2;2pe+1:3;2pe+1:8;2pe+2:20']2 Peter 4[/URL]

 

[CoreIssue]

But the condition of that eternity is to walk in eternal life and power now. If we overcome as Jesus overcame (instead of this silly doctrine that Jesus overcame for us or instead of us) then God will allow us to rule with Christ.

People that are betting on a good outcome for a mediocre performance on earth are trying to make a detour around..."you shall reap what you have sown"

And I'm not talking about a fleshly performance. I'm talking about the works of faith. The works prepared in advance that we SHOULD walk in them.

More Gnosticism.

Christ overcame sin for us. We cannot earn salvation. Works of faith/God are for rewards, crowns listed in the Bible.

There are not levels of salvation. You are either saved or not.

If saved you are church and a child of God. Otherwise you are damned to the Like a fire.

The inheritance is for the bride/church/children of God. All of them equally.

Sanctification is a different issue from plot is being covered.

 

[Episkopos]

A sad misunderstanding among believers today is what it means to be in Christ.

We are to abide in Christ....walk in Christ....bear eternal fruit in Christ. This is taken to mean that since Jesus is in us through regeneration, that means we are automatically IN Christ.

So there is a confusion between Christ IN us...which is the HOPE of glory (not the glory itself but the potential). That is the free sample.

But we are exhorted to also put on Christ. We need to further enter into Christ. THAT is no free gift. It costs us everything to get INTO Christ. That's why so few have even heard of this. They're only into the free stuff.

But like the pearl of great price hidden in the field....that costs us everything. So it is with entering into Christ.

This huge error in understanding the cost of entering into Christ has spawned many doctrinal errors like there being more than one gospel...
So people divide up the gospels as...the expensive one....and the free one. Then they choose the free one.

But the true gospel is a free sample pointing to the salvation of the full grace of God which costs everything. Rather than there being two gospels, they are two steps into the presence of God.

 

[CoreIssue]

You are confusing gnosticism...which you actually espouse. with "epignosis" which I am displaying. It is true knowledge of the living God.

Epignosis

• Bible /

• Epiginosko
• Epigraphe

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1922 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
epignosiß from (1921)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Epignosis 1:689,119
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ep-ig'-no-sis Noun Feminine
Definition

1. precise and correct knowledge
   1. used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine

NAS Word Usage - Total: 20
acknowledge* 1, knowledge 14, real knowledge 1, true knowledge 4

NAS Verse Count
Romans 3
Ephesians 2
Philippians 1
Colossians 4
1 Timothy 1
2 Timothy 2
Titus 1
Philemon 1
Hebrews 1
2 Peter 4

I'm not confused all. More than once you have claimed revelation is not stated in the Bible. That is Gnosticism.

Deeper understanding of the Bible is available to all my study and the Holy Spirit.

You are not doing deeper understanding. You are doing claimed revelation and pronouncing yourself a prophet.

Just the meaning of your username makes that clear.

 

[CoreIssue]

When we buy a property, we can claim that everything on that property is now ours. We have this thing about ownership. We see something and we ask...how much does it cost?

We do the same thing with the bible. We purchase a bible...or get a free copy...and then proceed to do the same thing with it. Anything that we deem we want within it's pages...we claim for ourselves.

When we find that the grace of God is given freely...we immediately claim the free stuff for ourselves. After all, it is OUR bible, and anything that we want in it is ours for the taking.

So we bring the same covetous attitude to the bible that we use in the world...to get what WE want.

How can this not be a recipe for disaster? Is God playing to our covetousness? Is He being a salesman and wanting to increase church membership?

So we make a god in our own selfish image. What we do...we expect God to do. We ignore the fact that God is fully other...completely different from us. His ways are far above our own.
Yet we don't allow for a change of carnal reasoning in regards to eternal truth. We forget the the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Instead we build on that faulty selfish reasoning thus drawing all the wrong conclusions to what we are reading in the bible.

Few can just read what the bible is saying in it's own context. Few can receive the truth.

When you buy property you do not own everything on the property. There are right of ways for utilities, roads etc..

A lot of people do not understand while they own the property immediately beside the road they do not control the proper. It is right-of-way.

Gas, water, sewer and other utility lines are under the control of the utilities, not you.

 

[Episkopos]

You are either saved or not.

Another huge error is in the false conclusion of being "saved" as a status. A cursory bible study on this subject shows that salvation is mainly about being delivered in our daily troubles. Salvation is deliverance.

Jesus said in His famous prayer...deliver (save) us from evil. THAT is the salvation that is mostly confirmed in the bible. Does God only deliver us from evil once??? Or is this daily like our daily bread?

There is a passage where Paul says..."all who remain in the ship will be saved". Now with the wrong conclusions so prevalent in today's church...why is there no sect that believes in living aboard a ship for salvation? It is the same reasoning as they use for their religious "assurances."

 

[Episkopos]

I'm not confused all. More than once you have claimed revelation is not stated in the Bible. That is Gnosticism.

Deeper understanding of the Bible is available to all my study and the Holy Spirit.

You are not doing deeper understanding. You are doing claimed revelation and pronouncing yourself a prophet.

Just the meaning of your username makes that clear.

You are simply denying the truth to support an armchair opinion that you use to justify yourself. And you hate any kind of truth that challenges those smug assumptions.

You deny any knowledge of God that does not pass through your mind first. Limiting God? Oh my...

You have no fear of the Lord...whereas you should be trembling right now...

Where is the wisdom?

 

[CoreIssue]

Another huge error is in the false conclusion of being "saved" as a status. A cursory bible study on this subject shows that salvation is mainly about being saved in our daily troubles. Salvation is deliverence.

Jesus said...deliver save) us from evil. THAT is the salvation that is mostly confirmed in the bible.

There is a passage where Paul says..."all who remain in the ship will be saved". Now with the wrong conclusions so prevalent in todays church...why is there no sect that believes in living aboard a ship for salvation. It is the same reasoning as they use for their religious "assurances."

OSAS as Clearly declared in Romans 8.

 

[CoreIssue]

You are simply denying the truth to support an armchair opinion that you use to justify yourself. And you hate any kind of truth that challenges those smug assumptions.

You deny any knowledge of God that does not pass through your mind first. Limiting God? Oh my...

You have no fear of the Lord...whereas you should be trembling right now...

Where is the wisdom?

A lot of assumptions there, Gnostic.

 

[Episkopos]

A lot of assumptions there, Gnostic.

LOL...you have no idea what I'm talking about and it kind of bugs you. The other alternative is that you would be jealous that others have had more experience with God than you (which I'm sure your pride bristles at the very idea of).

We can always know your position of things by looking at the fleshly conduct of any or all people in the world

Nothing surprising here.

Have you even read the thread with any creak of an open mind? Or are you fully ignorant of God and His ways?

Try again. Won't the Lord reward you if you get it right?

 

[Nancy]

Besides getting the bible wrong....we also do the same thing with spiritual experiences.

As in...I have experienced such and such miraculous provision or visitation...therefore (add in erroneous conclusion here).

God gives us samples of things to bring us into His life. It's about life, not experiences. If you are walking in His life you are walking in a perpetual visitation.... a perpetual experiencing of God.

So then a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

We are not more special because we have received more experiences from God. We will actually be held to a higher accountability for it. But many of us need to be kick-started, as it were, to get int the faith. And then with greater experience comes the need to share Christ with others. As in...woe is me if I preach not the gospel.

God is fair. God is righteous. He has HIS own reasons for doing things. Let us not draw the wrong conclusions.

"As in...I have experienced such and such miraculous provision or visitation...therefore (add in erroneous conclusion here).
God gives us samples of things to bring us into His life. It's about life, not experiences. If you are walking in His life you are walking in a perpetual visitation.... a perpetual experiencing of God.
So then a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
We are not more special because we have received more experiences from God."

I have never had such a miraculous "visitation" from God. The only conclusion for my self to come to is, "if He said it then, I believe it" no "feelings" are involved, just His Truth. Although, I cannot and will not judge their experiences, there little more to do but pray God will reveal these things to me, personally, in His time.

BTW-some might argue God is Just and Righteous but, not always fair?
I do not see this parable as being unfair as all agreed to the same thing but, when first reading of it, I wondered how I woud have reacted had I been one of the early morning workers. Matthew 20:1-16

"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”