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Dreaming and Freewill ?

Discussion in 'Christianity & Science Forum' started by twinc, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:59 AM.

  1. twinc

    twinc Active Member

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    whilst checking whether your dream was in black and white or colour check to see if you had free will - twinc
     
  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i'm curious how you might refer to the difference in animals and us if you don't use the term "free will?"
    i see free will being pitted against predestination, as if there were an "either/or" response required there, when i don't believe there is.
     
  3. twinc

    twinc Active Member

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    it seems it is accepted that dogs dream - whether ikn black and white or colour remains unknown - twinc
     
  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ha, well it seems accepted that dogs kill cats too, but we don't try them for murder, why not?
     
  5. twinc

    twinc Active Member

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    for they know not what they do - just like human beings - twinc
     
  6. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    yet we try human beings for murder, so your answer is at best incomplete.

    and a humans "not knowing what they do" is a euphemism for "moral blindness," not applicable to a dog, at least not IRL. You are denying that we were made in God's image, and animals were not, and also that we "fell," having come to the knowledge of good and evil, also not applicable to a dog.
     
  7. twinc

    twinc Active Member

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    most people have a false God - it was Adam that was made in the image and likeness of God - we are made in the image and likeness of 'fallen' Adam[Gen 5:3] imho - twinc
     
  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    it seems more useful to me to recognize how i am Adam, at least right now--i began life not knowing the difference in Good and Evil, i ate from the tree, got ejected from the Garden, the whole bit, so i remember believing that, and it worked then, but my perspective just changed there now, about the time Original Sin became clearer for me, and the doctrine was exposed for what it is. I know the verse you would quote for that, and i don't disagree, understand, but i now apply this in forgiving my fellow man, rather than in judging others, as is implied by the church. Fwiw i believe this is how we are dragged into "if you don't believe like me, then you are lost" type positions.

    "Adam" is "Mankind," and we can note that there is no verse "We are created in Adam's fallen image," it must be inferred, and is not necessarily implied by Gen 5 et al, that is all doctrine of Original Sin stuff, to me anyway. Simple observation informs me that we are not born knowing good and evil, and etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017 at 12:48 PM
  9. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Adam is mankind works for a fallen Adam who now has the advantages provided by the sacrifice of Jesus. Prior to falling, Adam was ahead of the rest of mankind because Adam had not formed any habits of sinning. This is why a person can be "born again" and still fail. He accepts the sacrifice of Jesus that washed away his sins, but he seldom works as he should to change those evil habits of his. These are the besetting sins of Hebrews 12:1 if you will...
     
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