Earth, Created to stand forever

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

God is love, the scriptures Tell us. If you think upon that word, It's reasonable to conclude that God loves life so much that at some point he decided to share life with others thus, creation was brought into existence. First the intelligent Angels were brought into existence then the universe, including Earth and mankind. Since God is love and he wanted to share life with intelligent creatures (Angels, Human) it would be reasonable the life that God wanted for them is eternal life, so Heaven would b the Angels eternal home, just as Earth is mankind Eternal home.
So many today believe that because Satan rebelled and influenced others to follow him (Angels & Humans) that God abandoned his original plan, but what I see is that God still wants Angels living in Heaven for Eternity and God made a way to save mankind, God doesn't want mankind to pass out of existence and while it's true God created his intelligent creatures with free will, God never gave them free will to abuse it. That's why God warned Adam of the consequences of disobedience, didn't want Adam to die, he wanted him to live forever, that's how much God loved his creation, mankind.

 

[Harvest 1874]

God is love, the scriptures Tell us. If you think upon that word, It's reasonable to conclude that God loves life so much that at some point he decided to share life with others thus, creation was brought into existence. First the intelligent Angels were brought into existence then the universe, including Earth and mankind. Since God is love and he wanted to share life with intelligent creatures (Angels, Human) it would be reasonable the life that God wanted for them is eternal life, so Heaven would b the Angels eternal home, just as Earth is mankind Eternal home.
So many today believe that because Satan rebelled and influenced others to follow him (Angels & Humans) that God abandoned his original plan, but what I see is that God still wants Angels living in Heaven for Eternity and God made a way to save mankind, God doesn't want mankind to pass out of existence and while it's true God created his intelligent creatures with free will, God never gave them free will to abuse it. That's why God warned Adam of the consequences of disobedience, didn't want Adam to die, he wanted him to live forever, that's how much God loved his creation, mankind.

Glancing at some recent posts here, there seems to be some question as to the duration of the earth, i.e. specifically as to how long it will last. Various scriptures have been applied some suggesting the earth is to be destroyed others that it will remain. As all true Bible Students know the Bible is the Living Word of God and therefore cannot contradict itself, if therefore something seems to be a contradiction it is usually found that the fault lies not with God’s word but with ourselves in our not properly interpreting a questionable scripture or text. The number one mistake is that someone tried to force a literal interpretation on something that is clearly symbolic.

Naturally the first scripture used in support of the fact that the earth abides forever is found in Eccl 1:4,

“One generation passes away, and another generation comes; but the earth abides forever.”

Likewise we have,

“For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.” (Isa 45:18)

“Bless Jehovah, O my soul. O Jehovah my God, thou art very great; Thou art clothed with honor and majesty: Who covers thyself with light as with a garment; Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain…Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved forever.” (Psa 104:1, 4)

These scriptures in regards to the length or duration of the earth seem pretty much straight forward, and thus are taken as literal statements of fact. The earth abideth forever, He hath established it that, it should not be moved FOREVER, pretty plain isn’t it?

Now on the other hand, what shall we make of the following scriptures?

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matt 24:35)

“And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thy hands: They shall perish; but thou continues: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment” (Heb 1:10, 11) a quote of Psa 102:25, 26

“Therefore wait ye for me, saith Jehovah, until the day that I rise up to the prey; for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger; for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.” (Zep 3:8)

“But the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men.” (2 Pet 3:7)

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” (2 Pet 3:10)

In these scriptures we seem to have an apparent contradiction, but that is ONLY if they are taken literally, rather than symbolically as they were intended.

The “heavens” and the “earth” here mentioned do not refer to the literal heavens and earth, but rather to the symbolic heavens and earth, that is, the “heavens” here mentioned represent the spiritual controlling powers presently in control, Satan, the fallen angels with him, and also his master work, ecclesiasticism, the present religious systems.

The “earth” here mentioned is not the literal either, but rather refers to the present social order, society as it is now presently organized under Satan’s control.

It is to these “heavens” and “earth” that the foregoing scriptures had referred, these are they, which shall, perish, which are reserved for the “fire” of the Great Day, The Day of His Vengeance, The Great Time of Trouble, these shall be burned up, dissolved (melt) with fervent heat (turmoil, strife, anarchy, human passion and wrath).

This in order to make way for the NEW “heavens” and “earth” (2 Pet 3:13) New spiritual powers, Christ’s Kingdom, our Lord taking the place of Satan, and his body the Church, taking the place of the fallen angles, a new religious order or system, one based upon truth and righteousness. A NEW “earth”, a new social order, reorganized on the new basis of love and justice. This is the new earth symbolically, but it is the same earth (or globe) literality.

 

[Harvest 1874]

A close examination of (2 Pet 3:5) shows us that at one time there had existed a previous, “heavens” and “earth” and that they likewise “waxed old as doth a garment” and perished in the flood. Did the literal earth perish? Heavens No! It remained even as it remains today.

Tell me what do the following scriptures infer?

“Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool…” (Isa 66:1)

“…I will make the place of my feet glorious.” Isa 60:13 (speaking of the Kingdom to come when the Lord shall establish righteousness throughout the earth)

“Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endures throughout all generations.” Psa 145:13

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath He given to the children of men.” (Psa 115:16)

The implication here seems to be that the Lord intends not to destroy the earth, but rather to make it glorious, that it is to be the home of an everlasting kingdom. Tell me if the Lord has given something, such as stated in our last text, should he take it back?

“…My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure…” (Isa 46:10)

Those who reach perfection at the end of the millennium, who past the final test, who are ushered into the everlasting kingdom, who are granted eternal life, how long is this supposed to last? 10,000 years, 100,000 years, one million years, Five hundred million years, Fifty Billion years, how long is eternity?

I would think that it is quite along time, so how long should the earth, which the Lord has given to the children of men, as their inheritance last? Should He ever change His mind and take it back? Strip it away from his loving and obedient children, we think not.

Now some may question, is it not the supposition that the sun is destined to become a Red Giant Star sometime billions of years from now, and then possibly go super nova and collapsed in on it-self even further in the future destroying most if not all the solar system, we find this to be contrary to the Bible’s testimony respecting the same. Let us remember as God has subjected both the heavens (the universe) and man to the laws of nature, nevertheless He is still the writer of that law, this does not imply that He will change things in order to sustain the earth, for He changes not, but to the contrary we believe that He has so arranged things so as to perpetually sustain not only the earth but also the sun for the benefit of His creation.

“Give to the king (Whom thou hast appointed, Christ during the millennial age.), thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king’s (Jehovah’s) son. He shall judge thy people with righteousness (Acts 17:31), and thy poor with judgment. The mountains (the New ruling powers of Christ's Kingdom) shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills (the tributary powers under the main government.), by righteousness. He shall judge the poor of the people; he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor (All oppressive systems and institutions--civil, social, financial and religious.). They shall fear thee AS LONG AS THE SUN AND THE MOON ENDURES, throughout all generations. He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth. In his days (in "the world to come, wherein dwells righteousness." Heb 2:5; 2 Pet 3:13), shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace SO LONG AS THE MOON ENDURES.” Psa 72: 1-7

“And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.” Dan 7:14

These scriptures and many more give evidence to the fact that it is God’s intention that not only shall the earth last forever, but also the sun and the moon, for God has established them and they shall not be moved.

(1 Chron 16:30; Psa 93:1; 96:10) Note: a distinction is made between the “world” as referred to in the sited text, and the “earth” which is said to be moved in other passages. A correct understanding of symbolic language will greatly assist the bible student in “rightly dividing the word of God” and thus coming to the correct meaning of any given passage. The word “world” as used in 1 Chron 16:30 applies to the globe or physical earth itself, whereas the word “earth” as used in Isa 24:19,20 and in 2 Pet 3:10 for instance, refer to the social order or structure as is now prevalent. In the study of symbolism you cannot rely upon the definitions as given in your concordance, but must rather compare scripture with scripture in order to come to the true intention of the words used.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Glancing at some recent posts here, there seems to be some question as to the duration of the earth, i.e. specifically as to how long it will last. Various scriptures have been applied some suggesting the earth is to be destroyed others that it will remain. As all true Bible Students know the Bible is the Living Word of God and therefore cannot contradict itself, if therefore something seems to be a contradiction it is usually found that the fault lies not with God’s word but with ourselves in our not properly interpreting a questionable scripture or text. The number one mistake is that someone tried to force a literal interpretation on something that is clearly symbolic.

Naturally the first scripture used in support of the fact that the earth abides forever is found in Eccl 1:4,

“One generation passes away, and another generation comes; but the earth abides forever.”

Likewise we have,

“For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.” (Isa 45:18)

“Bless Jehovah, O my soul. O Jehovah my God, thou art very great; Thou art clothed with honor and majesty: Who covers thyself with light as with a garment; Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain…Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved forever.” (Psa 104:1, 4)

These scriptures in regards to the length or duration of the earth seem pretty much straight forward, and thus are taken as literal statements of fact. The earth abideth forever, He hath established it that, it should not be moved FOREVER, pretty plain isn’t it?

Now on the other hand, what shall we make of the following scriptures?

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matt 24:35)

“And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thy hands: They shall perish; but thou continues: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment” (Heb 1:10, 11) a quote of Psa 102:25, 26

“Therefore wait ye for me, saith Jehovah, until the day that I rise up to the prey; for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger; for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.” (Zep 3:8)

“But the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men.” (2 Pet 3:7)

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” (2 Pet 3:10)

In these scriptures we seem to have an apparent contradiction, but that is ONLY if they are taken literally, rather than symbolically as they were intended.

The “heavens” and the “earth” here mentioned do not refer to the literal heavens and earth, but rather to the symbolic heavens and earth, that is, the “heavens” here mentioned represent the spiritual controlling powers presently in control, Satan, the fallen angels with him, and also his master work, ecclesiasticism, the present religious systems.

The “earth” here mentioned is not the literal either, but rather refers to the present social order, society as it is now presently organized under Satan’s control.

It is to these “heavens” and “earth” that the foregoing scriptures had referred, these are they, which shall, perish, which are reserved for the “fire” of the Great Day, The Day of His Vengeance, The Great Time of Trouble, these shall be burned up, dissolved (melt) with fervent heat (turmoil, strife, anarchy, human passion and wrath).

This in order to make way for the NEW “heavens” and “earth” (2 Pet 3:13) New spiritual powers, Christ’s Kingdom, our Lord taking the place of Satan, and his body the Church, taking the place of the fallen angles, a new religious order or system, one based upon truth and righteousness. A NEW “earth”, a new social order, reorganized on the new basis of love and justice. This is the new earth symbolically, but it is the same earth (or globe) literality.

I will admit I've been printing out some of your blog entries and studying them. This here also because I do take you serious. What concerns me though is that maybe we don't see eye to eye on some of the important issues: like God's character, what it is all about and where it is going and why. When I say 'concerns' what I mean is it makes me go back and question what I 'think' I know. it is hard to follow you. As your study on the Holy Spirit as teacher, if there is something you are revealing He wants me to see then He would do the revealing of what I cannot reason on my own, right? Referring to the study you posted here: are there not two accounts of creation? First God gives us the physical account created to mirror and teach and reveal God's glory. But then there is another account of creation where God creates 'a new creation' which we are all citizens of as 'new creatures'. These two creations run alongside throughout the word. So which creation does not move? I am just being honest but it seems we even get lost in pinning God down when it pertains to seed and we refuse to see the obvious. "And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir." (Genesis 15:4) tells us that 'out of God's bowels of compassion(mercy) comes the Son' ; out of a Spiritual place of (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance). This is the seed planted in righteousness and truth. Out of the bowels of mercy of the Father is the begotten Son. The point is, that the foundations where moved from when Adam reigned and had dominion to the foundation laid by the Son (out of God's compassion and mercy;for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son). The son of God being light, truth, righteousness and truth in ways we can not even come close to grasping. Where does the expression come from 'God moves Heaven and earth' to meet us? Jesus Christ (the Lamb) is the foundation of earth laid and established that will 'not be removed for ever'. (Truth, righteousness, goodness and to not be forgotten...charity (love). (charity never faileth)

Psalm 104:5
[5] Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Job 38
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. (He that hath an ear, let him hear)
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? (they are fastened to the Son) who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?​

'when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy' they are celebrating. what is celebrated and makes joyful?
the sight of that foundation laid anew : the Lamb, the only one worthy to open the book.

 

[bbyrd009]

I would think that it is quite along time, so how long should the earth, which the Lord has given to the children of men, as their inheritance last? Should He ever change His mind and take it back? Strip it away from his loving and obedient children, we think not.

Scripture acknowledges that even the earth will pass eventually, and even nails how, consumed in our sun's heat death
like billions of years from now tho...5 i guess
ish

 

[Truth7t7]

God is love, the scriptures Tell us. If you think upon that word, It's reasonable to conclude that God loves life so much that at some point he decided to share life with others thus, creation was brought into existence. First the intelligent Angels were brought into existence then the universe, including Earth and mankind. Since God is love and he wanted to share life with intelligent creatures (Angels, Human) it would be reasonable the life that God wanted for them is eternal life, so Heaven would b the Angels eternal home, just as Earth is mankind Eternal home.
So many today believe that because Satan rebelled and influenced others to follow him (Angels & Humans) that God abandoned his original plan, but what I see is that God still wants Angels living in Heaven for Eternity and God made a way to save mankind, God doesn't want mankind to pass out of existence and while it's true God created his intelligent creatures with free will, God never gave them free will to abuse it. That's why God warned Adam of the consequences of disobedience, didn't want Adam to die, he wanted him to live forever, that's how much God loved his creation, mankind.

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Psalm 46:6KJV
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earthmelted.

Psalm 97:5KJV
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Scripture acknowledges that even the earth will pass eventually, and even nails how, consumed in our sun's heat death
like billions of years from now tho...5 i guess
ish

Please quote the specific scripture you refer to which states that the physical earth will pass away.

 

[Truth7t7]

Please quote the specific scripture you refer to which states that the physical earth will pass away.

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Harvest 1874]

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Sorry but none of these texts you quote say anything about the physical earth passing away, they are all highly symbolic in nature. As we had stated earlier attempting to force a literal interpretation on that which is clearly symbolic is one of the leading mistakes made by many Christians, something which only leads to a whole lot of confusion when later they run into another text which completely contradicts their previous thought.

Let us attempt to apply a little sound reasoning here, suppose for a moment we were to accept your assertion that these text were literal statements and not symbolic as we understand them, what would be the implication?

How would we harmonize the statements in 2 Pet 3:10 which states that the earth is to be “burned up”, and Rev 21:1 that the earth shall pass away with the Lords statements in Eccl 1:4 that the “earth abides forever”, and “that it should not be removed forever” (Psa 104:5)?

Is this not a direct contradiction of scripture something which is supposedly impossible?

Tell me what is wrong with heaven, why must it pass away, be dissolve? God must not be doing something right because this is the second set of heavens and earths which he’s had to do away with.

How could the literal heavens be on fire? (2 Pet 3:12) I guess there would be a “great noise” in heaven if it were on fire?

I thought heaven was full of holy angels, that God’s will was done there, I mean aren’t we admonished to pray “thy will be done on earth even as it is in heaven”? If God’s will is being done in heaven why must heaven pass away?

Anyone, that is anyone in possession of “the spirit of a sound mind” who applies their God given ability to reason things out for themselves can see that the passages referred to by our friend here are symbolic that it is not the literal heavens and the literal earth that are to pass away, but rather the symbolic “heavens” (the ecclesiastical heavens, both the seen and the unseen), and “earth” (the present social order, society as it is now presently organized under Satan’s control) which are to pass away.

 

[Stranger]

The first heaven must pass away because sin originated there. All was heaven when satan sinned. Then, satan is instrumental in bringing sin into the world through Adam upon the earth, bringing the curse. Thus there must be a judgement and destruction of the heavens and the earth.

I don't believe one must resort to 'spiritual' interpretation when wanting to explain the apparent contradictions. (Concerning Ecc. 1:4) you must remember this is the view from man's eyes 'under the sun'. This is how man sees it. "One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever" The earth appears to man to continue on though generation after generation of men die.

And the verses in (Rev.) and ( 2 Peter) can be literal and true. There will be a destruction of the heavens and earth, and the earth and heavens as they now are will be made new. It is definitely going to be different without the seas and with the heavenly Jerusalem coming down to it. (Rev. 21:1-2).

My point here is that one does not have to resort to 'spiritual' interpretation over 'literal' interpretation here. One can interpret literally the passing away of the earth and heavens and the destruction of the earth and heavens literally, as well as the heaven and earth always existing forever.

Note also, once a new heaven and earth are made, earth will be just as much heaven as heaven is.

Stranger

 

[Truth7t7]

The first heaven must pass away because sin originated there. All was heaven when satan sinned. Then, satan is instrumental in bringing sin into the world through Adam upon the earth, bringing the curse. Thus there must be a judgement and destruction of the heavens and the earth.

I don't believe one must resort to 'spiritual' interpretation when wanting to explain the apparent contradictions. (Concerning Ecc. 1:4) you must remember this is the view from man's eyes 'under the sun'. This is how man sees it. "One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever" The earth appears to man to continue on though generation after generation of men die.

And the verses in (Rev.) and ( 2 Peter) can be literal and true. There will be a destruction of the heavens and earth, and the earth and heavens as they now are will be made new. It is definitely going to be different without the seas and with the heavenly Jerusalem coming down to it. (Rev. 21:1-2).

My point here is that one does not have to resort to 'spiritual' interpretation over 'literal' interpretation here. One can interpret literally the passing away of the earth and heavens and the destruction of the earth and heavens literally, as well as the heaven and earth always existing forever.

Note also, once a new heaven and earth are made, earth will be just as much heaven as heaven is.

Stranger

Pretty hard to deny the vast amount of scripture, that gives a "Literal" destruction.

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Psalm 46:6KJV
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earthmelted.

Psalm 97:5KJV
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't believe one must resort to 'spiritual' interpretation when wanting to explain the apparent contradictions. (Concerning Ecc. 1:4)

God is Spirit. Why would man not want to see it from God’s view, instead of from man’s view? All man sees right now is a shadow where every thing reveals who created the shadow for man to see God. Jesus didn’t just choose random healings and casting out of devils and raising the dead. As God, He deliberately demonstrated in the physical what He(God) would do in the Spiritual. Which is why Jesus said ‘you will do greater things’ because the physical healings were only a demonstration of the power of the Spirit. It was for a season to fully demonstrate what God was going to do and is still doing. why do you keep saying the word is not Spirit but literal.
Are we not instructed to walk in the Spirit. Pray in the Spirit. But then you argue “I don't believe one must resort to 'spiritual' interpretation when wanting to explain the apparent contradictions.“

It is definitely going to be different without the seas and with the heavenly Jerusalem coming down to it. (Rev. 21:1-2).

How do you explain the sea giving up the dead?

Revelation 20:13
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

It is significant when God tells us there will be ‘no more sea’. A person can try to make sense of all the contradictions. To do so completely ignores that there even are contradictions, which is deceptive.

 

[Harvest 1874]

How do you explain the sea giving up the dead?

Revelation 20:13
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

It is significant when God tells us there will be ‘no more sea’. A person can try to make sense of all the contradictions. To do so completely ignores that there even are contradictions, which is deceptive.

Once again many attempt to force literal interpretations on that which is clearly symbolic. The greatest source of error in understanding the symbols of Revelation is a too literal interpretation. It is read as though it were a statement of facts instead of a statement of symbols.

The book of Revelation is a symbolic prophecy, and not a literal epistle. It is a book of “signs” (a statement of symbols, not of facts).

We understand from our Lord’s own statement to the Apostle John, that the book of Revelation is to be considered as a book of symbols.

Examine Rev 1:1 closely,

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, [even] the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John.”

“God sent and sign-i-fied this message (transmitted it in His own secret code language of signs, symbols, and visions to prevent any untimely disclosure of its mysteries) through His angel Jesus, the messenger of the covenant, unto His servant the Apostle John.”

Thus we are fully satisfied that the signs and symbols, contained therein are the rule, the literal being the exception only when unavoidable.

So it is in regards to Rev 21:1 and the “sea”.

In the Scriptures the word "sea" is used, not merely as a name for a body of water, but also symbolically, as representing lawless, restless, dissatisfied, discontented humanity. In His great prophecy (Luke 21:5-36) our Lord tells us that in the time of trouble, with which the kingdom of the Lord will be introduced, the sea and the waves will roar; and in Psa. 46:1-3, is pictured, that the symbolic mountains, or kingdoms, of earth will go down, overwhelmed by the symbolic sea, in an anarchistic storm.

When once the Messiah's Kingdom shall have brought order out of the present confusion, after it shall have established the world's interests upon a proper basis of equity, there will be "no more sea," in the sense that there will no longer be a restless, dissatisfied element amongst the masses of mankind.

Let he who has an ear understand.

 

[Stranger]

God is Spirit. Why would man not want to see it from God’s view, instead of from man’s view? All man sees right now is a shadow where every thing reveals who created the shadow for man to see God. Jesus didn’t just choose random healings and casting out of devils and raising the dead. As God, He deliberately demonstrated in the physical what He(God) would do in the Spiritual. Which is why Jesus said ‘you will do greater things’ because the physical healings were only a demonstration of the power of the Spirit. It was for a season to fully demonstrate what God was going to do and is still doing. why do you keep saying the word is not Spirit but literal.
Are we not instructed to walk in the Spirit. Pray in the Spirit. But then you argue “I don't believe one must resort to 'spiritual' interpretation when wanting to explain the apparent contradictions.“




How do you explain the sea giving up the dead?

Revelation 20:13
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

It is significant when God tells us there will be ‘no more sea’. A person can try to make sense of all the contradictions. To do so completely ignores that there even are contradictions, which is deceptive.

I have never said the 'Word' is not Spirit. I have said every word in the Bible is Spirit. Every word.

You must understand that when one holds to the 'literal' interpretation of Scripture, that does not mean they deny God's Spirit in giving the Bible and God's Spirit in giving understanding in the Bible. You are identifying 'literal' as 'material' or 'physical' as in lesser than 'spiritual'. And that is a false representation. Literal is not opposed to Spiritual.

The literal method of interpretation is opposed to the spiritual method of interpretation. For example, a Bible teacher reads a verse to his class and then asks, 'that is what it says, now what is the real spiritual meaning behind this?' He is 'spiritualizing'. There is no reason that the Bible verse cannot be literal and spiritual. Or, as in our present discussion, when supposed contradictions arise, a 'spiritual' method is used to remove the supposed problem. There is nothing to govern the 'spiritual method' of interpretation. Each believer interprets as he wants to.

Concerning (Rev. 20:13), the sea gives up the dead because there is at that time still seas. The new heaven and earth have not yet been created.

There are 'apparent' contradictions in the Bible. Just because I may not have an answer for a 'contradiction' doesn't mean I resort to 'spiritualizing' to explain it. I just admit I don't know the answer and wait till God shows me some day. Believers need to accept that we are learning and don't know everything in the Bible. And when the worldling atheist attacks using 'contradictions' to prove his point, you just admit you don't have the answer, but that doesn't mean it is a contradiction.

Stranger

 

[Truth7t7]

When once the Messiah's Kingdom shall have brought order out of the present confusion, after it shall have established the world's interests upon a proper basis of equity, there will be "no more sea," in the sense that there will no longer be a restless, dissatisfied element amongst the masses of mankind.

The Messiahs Kingdom Will have established the "Worlds Interest Upon A Proper Basis Of Equity"?

I don't see God's Kingdom will conform to the worlds interest, bringing equity.

My God Is Pretty One Side When It Come To Being The Boss, The World Will Adhere To God's Interest.

 

[bbyrd009]

Please quote the specific scripture you refer to which states that the physical earth will pass away.

ok, but i do want to stress that imo this is surely billions of years after the world passes away, ok. The world is passing away, v the earth and heavens will be consumed, i think is the right term;
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/2_peter/3-10.htm

but nothing like the pov of "Jesus is going to bring a new earth with Him when He comes back to whisk us away" or anything like that
imo

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

so, diff day here iow

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have never said the 'Word' is not Spirit. I have said every word in the Bible is Spirit. Every word.

You must understand that when one holds to the 'literal' interpretation of Scripture, that does not mean they deny God's Spirit in giving the Bible and God's Spirit in giving understanding in the Bible. You are identifying 'literal' as 'material' or 'physical' as in lesser than 'spiritual'. And that is a false representation. Literal is not opposed to Spiritual.

The literal method of interpretation is opposed to the spiritual method of interpretation. For example, a Bible teacher reads a verse to his class and then asks, 'that is what it says, now what is the real spiritual meaning behind this?' He is 'spiritualizing'. There is no reason that the Bible verse cannot be literal and spiritual. Or, as in our present discussion, when supposed contradictions arise, a 'spiritual' method is used to remove the supposed problem. There is nothing to govern the 'spiritual method' of interpretation. Each believer interprets as he wants to.

Concerning (Rev. 20:13), the sea gives up the dead because there is at that time still seas. The new heaven and earth have not yet been created.

There are 'apparent' contradictions in the Bible. Just because I may not have an answer for a 'contradiction' doesn't mean I resort to 'spiritualizing' to explain it. I just admit I don't know the answer and wait till God shows me some day. Believers need to accept that we are learning and don't know everything in the Bible. And when the worldling atheist attacks using 'contradictions' to prove his point, you just admit you don't have the answer, but that doesn't mean it is a contradiction.

Stranger

First, are we not to move from milk to the meat? I’m not saying there is no literal meaning but sometimes that literal meaning gets us in to trouble. Sometimes there has to be a move into the spiritual meaning, otherwise we completely twist what God says and means. For instance: my husband was repairing a pastors heating and air. During their conversation the pastor shares with my husband how the pastor had just given a sermon on Samson. The topic was on “what a wasted life”. All that is being seen is the “literal” and because of it a entire congregation walks away believing Samson’s life could have been used by God but it wasn’t. It is lie. Samson’s life was used to testify of Christ with numerous spiritual truths within the verses. From the foxes tails catching the corn on fire, to the lion and the honey, to the purchase of tunics, to tearing off the gate and throwing it upon his shoulders and carrying it up a hill, to taking down an army with the jawbone of an ass, to the three things Samson was not to do: drink of the vine, touch the dead, or cut his hair. Samson is only an example of how God uses every verse of the Word of God(spiritually) to feed and nurture and grow those that are His into a demonstration of the spiritual that goes far beyond what man can reason on his own.

You said “There is nothing to govern the 'spiritual method' of interpretation. Each believer interprets as he wants to.” But that is not true: Acts 5:38-39
[38] And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

If I were to stay with all the literal meanings I have been spoon-fed over the years then I would never move past the physical demonstration taught by Jesus into a spiritual (greater)work taught: Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

If I stayed in the ‘literal’ never moving on to ‘Spirit’...I would be joining a church that handles literal snakes and drinks literal poison. Because of the forced ‘literal’ ...we (the body) are missing what God has given us the power to do today. which is to a lot. Instead we sit around packing God back into a ‘literal’ possessive box while the Spirit is ready and willing to work.

 

[Stranger]

First, are we not to move from milk to the meat? I’m not saying there is no literal meaning but sometimes that literal meaning gets us in to trouble. Sometimes there has to be a move into the spiritual meaning, otherwise we completely twist what God says and means. For instance: my husband was repairing a pastors heating and air. During their conversation the pastor shares with my husband how the pastor had just given a sermon on Samson. The topic was on “what a wasted life”. All that is being seen is the “literal” and because of it a entire congregation walks away believing Samson’s life could have been used by God but it wasn’t. It is lie. Samson’s life was used to testify of Christ with numerous spiritual truths within the verses. From the foxes tails catching the corn on fire, to the lion and the honey, to the purchase of tunics, to tearing off the gate and throwing it upon his shoulders and carrying it up a hill, to taking down an army with the jawbone of an ass, to the three things Samson was not to do: drink of the vine, touch the dead, or cut his hair. Samson is only an example of how God uses every verse of the Word of God(spiritually) to feed and nurture and grow those that are His into a demonstration of the spiritual that goes far beyond what man can reason on his own.

You said “There is nothing to govern the 'spiritual method' of interpretation. Each believer interprets as he wants to.” But that is not true: Acts 5:38-39
[38] And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

If I were to stay with all the literal meanings I have been spoon-fed over the years then I would never move past the physical demonstration taught by Jesus into a spiritual (greater)work taught: Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

If I stayed in the ‘literal’ never moving on to ‘Spirit’...I would be joining a church that handles literal snakes and drinks literal poison. Because of the forced ‘literal’ ...we (the body) are missing what God has given us the power to do today. which is to a lot. Instead we sit around packing God back into a ‘literal’ possessive box while the Spirit is ready and willing to work.

You are still presenting the literal as non-spiritual. The literal truths found in the Bible are spiritual truths. That Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Saviour is a literal truth. And of course it is spiritual. The two are not opposed.

Now you present the literal and spiritual methods as synonymous with immature and mature. And they are not.

Even when allegory or symbolism or types are used in Scripture they are used to teach a literal truth. From there one can make application as to how it applies to their own lives. But if the interpretation is flawed, then the application will be flawed also.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are still presenting the literal as non-spiritual. The literal truths found in the Bible are spiritual truths. That Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Saviour is a literal truth. And of course it is spiritual. The two are not opposed.

Now you present the literal and spiritual methods as synonymous with immature and mature. And they are not.

Even when allegory or symbolism or types are used in Scripture they are used to teach a literal truth. From there one can make application as to how it applies to their own lives. But if the interpretation is flawed, then the application will be flawed also.

Stranger

I’m not meaning to imply what you say between literal and the spiritual. I realize it is both. Yet, A literal truth that Jesus was the Son of God, crucified and resurrected in power takes spiritual eyes to believe He rose from the dead. Otherwise He is a man that was crucified and remained dead. They challenged Him to come down off the cross and heal himself. I’m done, Stranger. Have at it. There is one thing we are supposed to do and that is to edify one another. There are things going on in and around my life where I really need to see the Spirit’s help He has left us with. In no way am I trying to tear down your faith or attack your understanding..I don’t mean to. I am trying to encourage you into even more. If it is all over ‘spiritualizing trash’ then fine, I will see the errors when I try to apply, as you say, to life. John MacArthur says God’s Word is logical. That man should read it and apply with logical sense. In fact he mocks over ‘spiritualizing’ what is logical. It is far from ‘logical’ and was never meant to be.

 

[ScottA]

God is love, the scriptures Tell us. If you think upon that word, It's reasonable to conclude that God loves life so much that at some point he decided to share life with others thus, creation was brought into existence. First the intelligent Angels were brought into existence then the universe, including Earth and mankind. Since God is love and he wanted to share life with intelligent creatures (Angels, Human) it would be reasonable the life that God wanted for them is eternal life, so Heaven would b the Angels eternal home, just as Earth is mankind Eternal home.
So many today believe that because Satan rebelled and influenced others to follow him (Angels & Humans) that God abandoned his original plan, but what I see is that God still wants Angels living in Heaven for Eternity and God made a way to save mankind, God doesn't want mankind to pass out of existence and while it's true God created his intelligent creatures with free will, God never gave them free will to abuse it. That's why God warned Adam of the consequences of disobedience, didn't want Adam to die, he wanted him to live forever, that's how much God loved his creation, mankind.

Why do you not believe the scriptures?

Indeed, God is love, but He has not ordained love for what is evil. On the contrary, He has divided light from darkness, and the new heaven and earth are of the Light, and this old heaven and earth are of the darkness and to destroyed in fervent heat and by fire.